Forza Motorsport 2 realtime screens

http://members.cox.net/gek54/gek54/images/forza23.jpg http://members.cox.net/gek54/gek54/images/Forza2Beta3.jpg http://members.cox.net/gek54/gek54/images/forza22.jpg http://forzamotorsport.net/090506-1.htm keep in mind, Forza 2 runs at 60 FRAMES PER SECOND, twice the framerate of the original Xbox game, twice the framerate of PGR3 on the same machine, Xbox 360, rendered at 720p resolution with 4x anti-aliasing, uses some advanced lighting techniques, some per-pixel effects and will be a far better racing game than PGR3 could ever hope to be.

On 5 Sep 2006 15:15:59 -0700, "AirRaid" <[email hidden]> wrote: >keep in mind, Forza 2 runs at 60 FRAMES PER SECOND, twice the framerate >of the original Xbox game, twice the framerate of PGR3 on the same >machine, Xbox 360, rendered at 720p resolution with 4x anti-aliasing, >uses some advanced lighting techniques, some per-pixel effects and will >be a far better racing game than PGR3 could ever hope to be. Keep in my the OP is a bozo that doesn't know the difference between in game graphics and replays. -- Andrew, contact via http://interpleb.googlepages.com Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards, please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text. Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.

Andrew wrote:

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> On 5 Sep 2006 15:15:59 -0700, "AirRaid" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >keep in mind, Forza 2 runs at 60 FRAMES PER SECOND, twice the framerate > >of the original Xbox game, twice the framerate of PGR3 on the same > >machine, Xbox 360, rendered at 720p resolution with 4x anti-aliasing, > >uses some advanced lighting techniques, some per-pixel effects and will > >be a far better racing game than PGR3 could ever hope to be. > > Keep in my the OP is a bozo that doesn't know the difference between > in game graphics and replays.

Because everyone knows that replays are all pre-rendered and don't use in-game graphics... Eh ?

On 6 Sep 2006 01:16:32 -0700, [email hidden] wrote: >Because everyone knows that replays are all pre-rendered and don't use >in-game graphics... GT3 on the PS2 looks fantastic during replays. The actual in game graphics are a pixellated low texture nightmare. Same for practically any other decent driving games of recent years. The pictures in the OP's message are obviously pre-rendered or replay footage. -- Andrew, contact via http://interpleb.googlepages.com Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards, please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text. Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.

Andrew wrote:

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> On 6 Sep 2006 01:16:32 -0700, [email hidden] wrote: > >> Because everyone knows that replays are all pre-rendered and don't use >> in-game graphics... > > GT3 on the PS2 looks fantastic during replays. The actual in game > graphics are a pixellated low texture nightmare. Same for practically > any other decent driving games of recent years. The pictures in the > OP's message are obviously pre-rendered or replay footage.

They're not pre-rendered. That much has been confirmed. They are clearly replays though with blur etc. added. There is one in game screen found on the link the OP posted though.

On 2006-09-06 09:46:13 +0100, Andrew <[email hidden]> said:

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> On 6 Sep 2006 01:16:32 -0700, [email hidden] wrote: > >> Because everyone knows that replays are all pre-rendered and don't use >> in-game graphics... > > GT3 on the PS2 looks fantastic during replays. The actual in game > graphics are a pixellated low texture nightmare. Same for practically > any other decent driving games of recent years. The pictures in the > OP's message are obviously pre-rendered or replay footage.

On my copy of GT3/C/4P/4 the replays look like in-game, only from a different angle. Cars in GT look hi-res and stunning, even in game. -- http://myspace.com/zomoniac

Andrew wrote:

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> > On 5 Sep 2006 15:15:59 -0700, "AirRaid" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >keep in mind, Forza 2 runs at 60 FRAMES PER SECOND, twice the framerate > >of the original Xbox game, twice the framerate of PGR3 on the same > >machine, Xbox 360, rendered at 720p resolution with 4x anti-aliasing, > >uses some advanced lighting techniques, some per-pixel effects and will > >be a far better racing game than PGR3 could ever hope to be. > > Keep in my the OP is a bozo that doesn't know the difference between > in game graphics and replays. > --

I was wondering how they managed to get those angles when driving the car. Fair play though, at least in Forza there didn't seem to be a massive distinction between in game cars graphics and replay. -- Paul (Neurotic to the bone No doubt about it) ------------------------------------------------------ Stop and Look http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/

Zomoniac wrote:

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> > On 2006-09-06 09:46:13 +0100, Andrew <[email hidden]> said: > > > On 6 Sep 2006 01:16:32 -0700, [email hidden] wrote: > > > >> Because everyone knows that replays are all pre-rendered and don't use > >> in-game graphics... > > > > GT3 on the PS2 looks fantastic during replays. The actual in game > > graphics are a pixellated low texture nightmare. Same for practically > > any other decent driving games of recent years. The pictures in the > > OP's message are obviously pre-rendered or replay footage. > > On my copy of GT3/C/4P/4 the replays look like in-game, only from a > different angle. Cars in GT look hi-res and stunning, even in game. > > -- > http://myspace.com/zomoniac

I think 4 and maybe 3, and as I mentioned Forza are all pretty good at just looking very pretty in both live and replay. -- Paul (Neurotic to the bone No doubt about it) ------------------------------------------------------ Stop and Look http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/

On Wed, 06 Sep 2006 07:56:32 +0100, Andrew <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>On 5 Sep 2006 15:15:59 -0700, "AirRaid" <[email hidden]> wrote: > >>keep in mind, Forza 2 runs at 60 FRAMES PER SECOND, twice the framerate >>of the original Xbox game, twice the framerate of PGR3 on the same >>machine, Xbox 360, rendered at 720p resolution with 4x anti-aliasing, >>uses some advanced lighting techniques, some per-pixel effects and will >>be a far better racing game than PGR3 could ever hope to be. > >Keep in my the OP is a bozo that doesn't know the difference between >in game graphics and replays.

yeah, but a replay is still using the ingame grapgics engine, is it not? -- gamertag: Chrisflynnuk http://live.xbox.com/member/Chrisflynnuk Current eBay auctions: http://tinyurl.com/hutcb

On 2006-09-06 12:33:53 +0100, Chris F <[email hidden]> said: > ingame grapgics engine come again? :) -- gt: redsmartie www.redsmartie.com "Game experience may change during online play"

AirRaid wrote:

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> http://members.cox.net/gek54/gek54/images/forza23.jpg > http://members.cox.net/gek54/gek54/images/Forza2Beta3.jpg > http://members.cox.net/gek54/gek54/images/forza22.jpg > > http://forzamotorsport.net/090506-1.htm > > > > keep in mind, Forza 2 runs at 60 FRAMES PER SECOND, twice the framerate > of the original Xbox game, twice the framerate of PGR3 on the same > machine, Xbox 360, rendered at 720p resolution with 4x anti-aliasing, > uses some advanced lighting techniques, some per-pixel effects and will > be a far better racing game than PGR3 could ever hope to be.

Those pictures are not THAT impressive at all. It is all going to come down to gameplay anyhow. It isn't the same league as the prerendered they did at E3. And while it may use 4x anti-aliasing, the pics did have jaggies in them. - Richard Hutnik

Andrew wrote:

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> On 5 Sep 2006 15:15:59 -0700, "AirRaid" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >keep in mind, Forza 2 runs at 60 FRAMES PER SECOND, twice the framerate > >of the original Xbox game, twice the framerate of PGR3 on the same > >machine, Xbox 360, rendered at 720p resolution with 4x anti-aliasing, > >uses some advanced lighting techniques, some per-pixel effects and will > >be a far better racing game than PGR3 could ever hope to be. > > Keep in my the OP is a bozo that doesn't know the difference between > in game graphics and replays. > --

replays are REALTIME, fucktard.

Chris F wrote:

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> On Wed, 06 Sep 2006 07:56:32 +0100, Andrew <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >On 5 Sep 2006 15:15:59 -0700, "AirRaid" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > >>keep in mind, Forza 2 runs at 60 FRAMES PER SECOND, twice the framerate > >>of the original Xbox game, twice the framerate of PGR3 on the same > >>machine, Xbox 360, rendered at 720p resolution with 4x anti-aliasing, > >>uses some advanced lighting techniques, some per-pixel effects and will > >>be a far better racing game than PGR3 could ever hope to be. > > > >Keep in my the OP is a bozo that doesn't know the difference between > >in game graphics and replays. > > yeah, but a replay is still using the ingame grapgics engine, is it > not? > -- >

true.

[email hidden] wrote:

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> AirRaid wrote: > > http://members.cox.net/gek54/gek54/images/forza23.jpg > > http://members.cox.net/gek54/gek54/images/Forza2Beta3.jpg > > http://members.cox.net/gek54/gek54/images/forza22.jpg > > > > http://forzamotorsport.net/090506-1.htm > > > > > > > > keep in mind, Forza 2 runs at 60 FRAMES PER SECOND, twice the framerate > > of the original Xbox game, twice the framerate of PGR3 on the same > > machine, Xbox 360, rendered at 720p resolution with 4x anti-aliasing, > > uses some advanced lighting techniques, some per-pixel effects and will > > be a far better racing game than PGR3 could ever hope to be. > > Those pictures are not THAT impressive at all. It is all going to come > down to gameplay anyhow. It isn't the same league as the prerendered > they did at E3. And while it may use 4x anti-aliasing, the pics did > have jaggies in them. > > - Richard Hutnik

I would rather have not-so-impressive-graphics but 60 frames per second in a simulation (or arcade-style racer) than impressive graphics but only 30FPS like PGR2, Forza1 or PGR3. framerate is king because it directly effects gameplay, sense of speed and immersion.

On 2006-09-06 10:19:38 +0100, Paul Heslop <[email hidden]> said:

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> Zomoniac wrote: >> >> On 2006-09-06 09:46:13 +0100, Andrew <[email hidden]> said: >> >>> On 6 Sep 2006 01:16:32 -0700, [email hidden] wrote: >>> >>>> Because everyone knows that replays are all pre-rendered and don't use >>>> in-game graphics... >>> >>> GT3 on the PS2 looks fantastic during replays. The actual in game >>> graphics are a pixellated low texture nightmare. Same for practically >>> any other decent driving games of recent years. The pictures in the >>> OP's message are obviously pre-rendered or replay footage. >> >> On my copy of GT3/C/4P/4 the replays look like in-game, only from a >> different angle. Cars in GT look hi-res and stunning, even in game. >> >> -- >> http://myspace.com/zomoniac > > I think 4 and maybe 3, and as I mentioned Forza are all pretty good at > just looking very pretty in both live and replay.

Although I am still of the opinion that GT4 destroys Forza graphically. -- http://myspace.com/zomoniac

On Wed, 6 Sep 2006 21:24:46 +0100, Zomoniac <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>On 2006-09-06 10:19:38 +0100, Paul Heslop <[email hidden]> said: > >> Zomoniac wrote: >>> >>> On 2006-09-06 09:46:13 +0100, Andrew <[email hidden]> said: >>> >>>> On 6 Sep 2006 01:16:32 -0700, [email hidden] wrote: >>>> >>>>> Because everyone knows that replays are all pre-rendered and don't use >>>>> in-game graphics... >>>> >>>> GT3 on the PS2 looks fantastic during replays. The actual in game >>>> graphics are a pixellated low texture nightmare. Same for practically >>>> any other decent driving games of recent years. The pictures in the >>>> OP's message are obviously pre-rendered or replay footage. >>> >>> On my copy of GT3/C/4P/4 the replays look like in-game, only from a >>> different angle. Cars in GT look hi-res and stunning, even in game. >>> >>> -- >>> http://myspace.com/zomoniac >> >> I think 4 and maybe 3, and as I mentioned Forza are all pretty good at >> just looking very pretty in both live and replay. > >Although I am still of the opinion that GT4 destroys Forza graphically.

it does, but then forza was a first attempt, whereas polyphony had been at it for years and had a good base to build on. -- gamertag: Chrisflynnuk http://live.xbox.com/member/Chrisflynnuk Current eBay auctions: http://tinyurl.com/hutcb

Zomoniac wrote:

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> > On 2006-09-06 10:19:38 +0100, Paul Heslop <[email hidden]> said: > > > Zomoniac wrote: > >> > >> On 2006-09-06 09:46:13 +0100, Andrew <[email hidden]> said: > >> > >>> On 6 Sep 2006 01:16:32 -0700, [email hidden] wrote: > >>> > >>>> Because everyone knows that replays are all pre-rendered and don't use > >>>> in-game graphics... > >>> > >>> GT3 on the PS2 looks fantastic during replays. The actual in game > >>> graphics are a pixellated low texture nightmare. Same for practically > >>> any other decent driving games of recent years. The pictures in the > >>> OP's message are obviously pre-rendered or replay footage. > >> > >> On my copy of GT3/C/4P/4 the replays look like in-game, only from a > >> different angle. Cars in GT look hi-res and stunning, even in game. > >> > >> -- > >> http://myspace.com/zomoniac > > > > I think 4 and maybe 3, and as I mentioned Forza are all pretty good at > > just looking very pretty in both live and replay. > > Although I am still of the opinion that GT4 destroys Forza graphically. > > -- > http://myspace.com/zomoniac

I'm 50/50. I certainly don't brag about either but when i was laying both I thought GT4 was sharper, the edges of the vehicles seemed cleaner and the cars just looked right. The other thing is the much vaunted visual mods on forza, the vinyl's etc. they appear very low rez and chunky and sometimes shadows actually have almost square stepping, very bad shadows like I used to notice in the original Gran turismo when driving the Honda sports car the shadows under the spoiler always looked glued on later. backgrounds on forza are also often hazy, soft edged, like paintings rather than realistic. I think the biggest problem for GT4 was a feeling of having been here so many times before. Even new tracks have that feel, like nothing had been added even when it obviously had. They made a big mistake with that game, specially with the crash damage thing in which department Forza stomps all over the old codger with size twelves. -- Paul (Neurotic to the bone No doubt about it) ------------------------------------------------------ Stop and Look http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> Zomoniac wrote: > > > > On 2006-09-06 10:19:38 +0100, Paul Heslop <[email hidden]> said: > > > > > Zomoniac wrote: > > >> > > >> On 2006-09-06 09:46:13 +0100, Andrew <[email hidden]> said: > > >> > > >>> On 6 Sep 2006 01:16:32 -0700, [email hidden] wrote: > > >>> > > >>>> Because everyone knows that replays are all pre-rendered and don't use > > >>>> in-game graphics... > > >>> > > >>> GT3 on the PS2 looks fantastic during replays. The actual in game > > >>> graphics are a pixellated low texture nightmare. Same for practically > > >>> any other decent driving games of recent years. The pictures in the > > >>> OP's message are obviously pre-rendered or replay footage. > > >> > > >> On my copy of GT3/C/4P/4 the replays look like in-game, only from a > > >> different angle. Cars in GT look hi-res and stunning, even in game. > > >> > > >> -- > > >> http://myspace.com/zomoniac > > > > > > I think 4 and maybe 3, and as I mentioned Forza are all pretty good at > > > just looking very pretty in both live and replay. > > > > Although I am still of the opinion that GT4 destroys Forza graphically. > > > > -- > > http://myspace.com/zomoniac > > I'm 50/50. I certainly don't brag about either but when i was laying > both I thought GT4 was sharper, the edges of the vehicles seemed > cleaner and the cars just looked right. The other thing is the much > vaunted visual mods on forza, the vinyl's etc. they appear very low > rez and chunky and sometimes shadows actually have almost square > stepping, very bad shadows like I used to notice in the original Gran > turismo when driving the Honda sports car the shadows under the > spoiler always looked glued on later. backgrounds on forza are also > often hazy, soft edged, like paintings rather than realistic. > > I think the biggest problem for GT4 was a feeling of having been here > so many times before. Even new tracks have that feel, like nothing had > been added even when it obviously had. They made a big mistake with > that game, specially with the crash damage thing in which department > Forza stomps all over the old codger with size twelves. >

Was something on your mind as you started that?

Bikini Whacks wrote:

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> > In article <[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] says... > > Zomoniac wrote: > > > > > > On 2006-09-06 10:19:38 +0100, Paul Heslop <[email hidden]> said: > > > > > > > Zomoniac wrote: > > > >> > > > >> On 2006-09-06 09:46:13 +0100, Andrew <[email hidden]> said: > > > >> > > > >>> On 6 Sep 2006 01:16:32 -0700, [email hidden] wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>>> Because everyone knows that replays are all pre-rendered and don't use > > > >>>> in-game graphics... > > > >>> > > > >>> GT3 on the PS2 looks fantastic during replays. The actual in game > > > >>> graphics are a pixellated low texture nightmare. Same for practically > > > >>> any other decent driving games of recent years. The pictures in the > > > >>> OP's message are obviously pre-rendered or replay footage. > > > >> > > > >> On my copy of GT3/C/4P/4 the replays look like in-game, only from a > > > >> different angle. Cars in GT look hi-res and stunning, even in game. > > > >> > > > >> -- > > > >> http://myspace.com/zomoniac > > > > > > > > I think 4 and maybe 3, and as I mentioned Forza are all pretty good at > > > > just looking very pretty in both live and replay. > > > > > > Although I am still of the opinion that GT4 destroys Forza graphically. > > > > > > -- > > > http://myspace.com/zomoniac > > > > I'm 50/50. I certainly don't brag about either but when i was laying > > both I thought GT4 was sharper, the edges of the vehicles seemed > > cleaner and the cars just looked right. The other thing is the much > > vaunted visual mods on forza, the vinyl's etc. they appear very low > > rez and chunky and sometimes shadows actually have almost square > > stepping, very bad shadows like I used to notice in the original Gran > > turismo when driving the Honda sports car the shadows under the > > spoiler always looked glued on later. backgrounds on forza are also > > often hazy, soft edged, like paintings rather than realistic. > > > > I think the biggest problem for GT4 was a feeling of having been here > > so many times before. Even new tracks have that feel, like nothing had > > been added even when it obviously had. They made a big mistake with > > that game, specially with the crash damage thing in which department > > Forza stomps all over the old codger with size twelves. > > > Was something on your mind as you started that?

Why? Is it a mess? I have actually had one of those days today, you know, where you feel like everything is a dream and you're going to wake up in a minute and think, thank fuck for that. -- Paul (Neurotic to the bone No doubt about it) ------------------------------------------------------ Stop and Look http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> Bikini Whacks wrote: > > > > In article <[email hidden]>, > > [email hidden] says... > > > Zomoniac wrote: > > > > > > > > On 2006-09-06 10:19:38 +0100, Paul Heslop <[email hidden]> said: > > > > > > > > > Zomoniac wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >> On 2006-09-06 09:46:13 +0100, Andrew <[email hidden]> said: > > > > >> > > > > >>> On 6 Sep 2006 01:16:32 -0700, [email hidden] wrote: > > > > >>> > > > > >>>> Because everyone knows that replays are all pre-rendered and don't use > > > > >>>> in-game graphics... > > > > >>> > > > > >>> GT3 on the PS2 looks fantastic during replays. The actual in game > > > > >>> graphics are a pixellated low texture nightmare. Same for practically > > > > >>> any other decent driving games of recent years. The pictures in the > > > > >>> OP's message are obviously pre-rendered or replay footage. > > > > >> > > > > >> On my copy of GT3/C/4P/4 the replays look like in-game, only from a > > > > >> different angle. Cars in GT look hi-res and stunning, even in game. > > > > >> > > > > >> -- > > > > >> http://myspace.com/zomoniac > > > > > > > > > > I think 4 and maybe 3, and as I mentioned Forza are all pretty good at > > > > > just looking very pretty in both live and replay. > > > > > > > > Although I am still of the opinion that GT4 destroys Forza graphically. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > http://myspace.com/zomoniac > > > > > > I'm 50/50. I certainly don't brag about either but when i was laying > > > both I thought GT4 was sharper, the edges of the vehicles seemed > > > cleaner and the cars just looked right. The other thing is the much > > > vaunted visual mods on forza, the vinyl's etc. they appear very low > > > rez and chunky and sometimes shadows actually have almost square > > > stepping, very bad shadows like I used to notice in the original Gran > > > turismo when driving the Honda sports car the shadows under the > > > spoiler always looked glued on later. backgrounds on forza are also > > > often hazy, soft edged, like paintings rather than realistic. > > > > > > I think the biggest problem for GT4 was a feeling of having been here > > > so many times before. Even new tracks have that feel, like nothing had > > > been added even when it obviously had. They made a big mistake with > > > that game, specially with the crash damage thing in which department > > > Forza stomps all over the old codger with size twelves. > > > > > Was something on your mind as you started that? > > Why? Is it a mess? I have actually had one of those days today, you > know, where you feel like everything is a dream and you're going to > wake up in a minute and think, thank fuck for that. > >

No, it's ALL a dream, mate. ;) Doing any more laying today?

Bikini Whacks wrote:

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> > In article <[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] says... > > Bikini Whacks wrote: > > > > > > In article <[email hidden]>, > > > [email hidden] says... > > > > Zomoniac wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On 2006-09-06 10:19:38 +0100, Paul Heslop <[email hidden]> said: > > > > > > > > > > > Zomoniac wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > >> On 2006-09-06 09:46:13 +0100, Andrew <[email hidden]> said: > > > > > >> > > > > > >>> On 6 Sep 2006 01:16:32 -0700, [email hidden] wrote: > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>>> Because everyone knows that replays are all pre-rendered and don't use > > > > > >>>> in-game graphics... > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> GT3 on the PS2 looks fantastic during replays. The actual in game > > > > > >>> graphics are a pixellated low texture nightmare. Same for practically > > > > > >>> any other decent driving games of recent years. The pictures in the > > > > > >>> OP's message are obviously pre-rendered or replay footage. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> On my copy of GT3/C/4P/4 the replays look like in-game, only from a > > > > > >> different angle. Cars in GT look hi-res and stunning, even in game. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> -- > > > > > >> http://myspace.com/zomoniac > > > > > > > > > > > > I think 4 and maybe 3, and as I mentioned Forza are all pretty good at > > > > > > just looking very pretty in both live and replay. > > > > > > > > > > Although I am still of the opinion that GT4 destroys Forza graphically. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > http://myspace.com/zomoniac > > > > > > > > I'm 50/50. I certainly don't brag about either but when i was laying > > > > both I thought GT4 was sharper, the edges of the vehicles seemed > > > > cleaner and the cars just looked right. The other thing is the much > > > > vaunted visual mods on forza, the vinyl's etc. they appear very low > > > > rez and chunky and sometimes shadows actually have almost square > > > > stepping, very bad shadows like I used to notice in the original Gran > > > > turismo when driving the Honda sports car the shadows under the > > > > spoiler always looked glued on later. backgrounds on forza are also > > > > often hazy, soft edged, like paintings rather than realistic. > > > > > > > > I think the biggest problem for GT4 was a feeling of having been here > > > > so many times before. Even new tracks have that feel, like nothing had > > > > been added even when it obviously had. They made a big mistake with > > > > that game, specially with the crash damage thing in which department > > > > Forza stomps all over the old codger with size twelves. > > > > > > > Was something on your mind as you started that? > > > > Why? Is it a mess? I have actually had one of those days today, you > > know, where you feel like everything is a dream and you're going to > > wake up in a minute and think, thank fuck for that. > > > > > No, it's ALL a dream, mate. ;) > > Doing any more laying today?

:O) I only just got it, after re-reading about four times. Good grief, even thinking about it right now would tire me out :O) -- Paul (Neurotic to the bone No doubt about it) ------------------------------------------------------ Stop and Look http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/

Paul Heslop wrote:

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> > I'm 50/50. I certainly don't brag about either but when i was laying > both I thought GT4 was sharper, the edges of the vehicles seemed > cleaner and the cars just looked right. The other thing is the much > vaunted visual mods on forza, the vinyl's etc. they appear very low > rez and chunky and sometimes shadows actually have almost square > stepping, very bad shadows like I used to notice in the original Gran > turismo when driving the Honda sports car the shadows under the > spoiler always looked glued on later. backgrounds on forza are also > often hazy, soft edged, like paintings rather than realistic.

Perhaps but GT4's handling of the cars is very arcady where as Forza was far more realistic in terms of the driving model.

The Gray One wrote:

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> > Paul Heslop wrote: > > > > > I'm 50/50. I certainly don't brag about either but when i was laying > > both I thought GT4 was sharper, the edges of the vehicles seemed > > cleaner and the cars just looked right. The other thing is the much > > vaunted visual mods on forza, the vinyl's etc. they appear very low > > rez and chunky and sometimes shadows actually have almost square > > stepping, very bad shadows like I used to notice in the original Gran > > turismo when driving the Honda sports car the shadows under the > > spoiler always looked glued on later. backgrounds on forza are also > > often hazy, soft edged, like paintings rather than realistic. > > Perhaps but GT4's handling of the cars is very arcady where as Forza > was far more realistic in terms of the driving model.

Which as always been my contention anyway. I got forza later but I had pretty much got fed up with GT4 by then and forza breathed in some life. I guess if you really know all that stuff about PSI etc you could do some serious things but as it is I get more of a blast from forza and haven't touched GT4 for ages. My son is the other way round, played forza once, didn't like and now plays GT4. TBH and in a big way I am still having more fun from the need for speed games than any other driving game around. :O) -- Paul (Neurotic to the bone No doubt about it) ------------------------------------------------------ Stop and Look http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/

In article <[email hidden]>, "The Gray One" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Perhaps but GT4's handling of the cars is very arcady where as Forza >was far more realistic in terms of the driving model. Perhaps, but the braking was broke (far too sensitive). And some cars show too much power-on oversteer, most show too much throttle sensitivity in transition from over to understeer (IMHO). Maybe it would have been better if I used a good wheel instead of the stock controller? Also, lots of the cockpit views were broke. For instance the NSX's is from a worm's eye view. As opposed to one of the LMP cars (Cadillac?) which seemed to be from someone standing on top of it.

Dave wrote:

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> > In article <[email hidden]>, "The Gray One" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Perhaps but GT4's handling of the cars is very arcady where as Forza > >was far more realistic in terms of the driving model. > > Perhaps, but the braking was broke (far too sensitive). And some > cars show too much power-on oversteer, most show too much throttle > sensitivity in transition from over to understeer (IMHO). > > Maybe it would have been better if I used a good wheel instead of > the stock controller? > > Also, lots of the cockpit views were broke. For instance the NSX's > is from a worm's eye view. As opposed to one of the LMP cars > (Cadillac?) which seemed to be from someone standing on top of it.

the top view on GT4 were really crap though. after three tries that was the best they could do? I always loved the GT series but that game had to be the biggest let down in many depts. Oh and while we're at it, we get a 5 second penalty in the rally races for bumping into anything, including the other driver making us hit them for which they get NO PENALTY! In a 'sim' surely it should be evenly balanced and both cars play by the same rules? -- Paul (Neurotic to the bone No doubt about it) ------------------------------------------------------ Stop and Look http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/

On 2006-09-08 09:40:51 +0100, Paul Heslop <[email hidden]> said:

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> Dave wrote: >> >> In article <[email hidden]>, >> "The Gray One" <[email hidden]> wrote: >> >>> Perhaps but GT4's handling of the cars is very arcady where as Forza >>> was far more realistic in terms of the driving model. >> >> Perhaps, but the braking was broke (far too sensitive). And some >> cars show too much power-on oversteer, most show too much throttle >> sensitivity in transition from over to understeer (IMHO). >> >> Maybe it would have been better if I used a good wheel instead of >> the stock controller? >> >> Also, lots of the cockpit views were broke. For instance the NSX's >> is from a worm's eye view. As opposed to one of the LMP cars >> (Cadillac?) which seemed to be from someone standing on top of it. > > the top view on GT4 were really crap though.

Which view? If you play GT from anything other than the in-car view then I can't take you seriously :op Shame PS2 isn't up to the job of a cockpit view, it must be said.

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> after three tries that > was the best they could do? I always loved the GT series but that game > had to be the biggest let down in many depts. Oh and while we're at > it, we get a 5 second penalty in the rally races for bumping into > anything, including the other driver making us hit them for which they > get NO PENALTY! In a 'sim' surely it should be evenly balanced and > both cars play by the same rules?

Yup, it's shit. Another great game let down my AI cheating, just like Ridge Racer 6 with the AI infinite turbo on later races. The worst one I've ever come across was Virtua Striker 2 on DC (which was a terrible game anyway), you could be hammering the CPU all match and it would score 3 in the last five minutes, it wouldn't actually let you control your players, they would spontaneously run in the wrong direction, basically when it decided it was going to score there was absolutely nothing you could do about it. -- http://myspace.com/zomoniac

Zomoniac wrote:

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> > On 2006-09-08 09:40:51 +0100, Paul Heslop <[email hidden]> said: > > > Dave wrote: > >> > >> In article <[email hidden]>, > >> "The Gray One" <[email hidden]> wrote: > >> > >>> Perhaps but GT4's handling of the cars is very arcady where as Forza > >>> was far more realistic in terms of the driving model. > >> > >> Perhaps, but the braking was broke (far too sensitive). And some > >> cars show too much power-on oversteer, most show too much throttle > >> sensitivity in transition from over to understeer (IMHO). > >> > >> Maybe it would have been better if I used a good wheel instead of > >> the stock controller? > >> > >> Also, lots of the cockpit views were broke. For instance the NSX's > >> is from a worm's eye view. As opposed to one of the LMP cars > >> (Cadillac?) which seemed to be from someone standing on top of it. > > > > the top view on GT4 were really crap though. > > Which view? If you play GT from anything other than the in-car view > then I can't take you seriously :op >

:O) I just dabble occasionally with all views. The one where you're on the roof? You can see more of the roof than anything else sometimes, if the vehicle is squareish and has a short front end. makes it look like you're driving a box. > Shame PS2 isn't up to the job of a cockpit view, it must be said. But it has been, hasn't it? Colin Mcrae, the toca games?

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> > > after three tries that > > was the best they could do? I always loved the GT series but that game > > had to be the biggest let down in many depts. Oh and while we're at > > it, we get a 5 second penalty in the rally races for bumping into > > anything, including the other driver making us hit them for which they > > get NO PENALTY! In a 'sim' surely it should be evenly balanced and > > both cars play by the same rules? > > Yup, it's shit. Another great game let down my AI cheating, just like > Ridge Racer 6 with the AI infinite turbo on later races.

But with ridge racer, and need for speed etc at least they are arcade and you expect some of this ridiculous over even handedness towards AI. Remember the thing where I think in GT3 and 4 there are certain races it doesn't matter how good you drive the pack remain a certain distance behind, even when you check the stats and see that you were bloody obviously burning the arse off them in every way? Oh, and of course their ability to take a corner like it was a nice gradual bend when it is a f***ing V shaped bastard with a nice wedge in the rails for you to lodge the front of your over-powered monster into? Bastards! :O) The worst one

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> I've ever come across was Virtua Striker 2 on DC (which was a terrible > game anyway), you could be hammering the CPU all match and it would > score 3 in the last five minutes, it wouldn't actually let you control > your players, they would spontaneously run in the wrong direction, > basically when it decided it was going to score there was absolutely > nothing you could do about it. > > -- > http://myspace.com/zomoniac

My son often complains when he plays the manager games, gets what should be the perfect team, they should be heroes, half the team want to leave, people retire, the best striker gets injured three seconds after kickoff and the goalies hand falls off... mind you, that could be the story of newcastle united :O) -- Paul (Neurotic to the bone No doubt about it) ------------------------------------------------------ Stop and Look http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/

In article <[email hidden]>, Paul Heslop <[email hidden]> wrote: >the top view on GT4 were really crap though. Seconding the other guy's post, I always stay in-car. Yes, I'd love them to add true cockpits ala PGR3. But you know what? In playing that game 3-4 hrs (borrowed X360), I found myself turning off the dash. Why? While it is very pretty, it is distracting and gives you less of a view of the road than you'd have in real racing. I auto-X and have tracked my car a couple of times. You pay zero attention to the cockpit. And, at least with my Miata, you see a lot more outside than from these cockpit views. after three tries that >was the best they could do? I always loved the GT series but that game >had to be the biggest let down in many depts. I agree there. While the 480p and 1080i, 500+ cars and record # of tracks were all improvements, it just was too much like GT3 after the long wait. >get NO PENALTY! In a 'sim' surely it should be evenly balanced and >both cars play by the same rules? I'm just more tired of the crappy AI. But I didn't think Forza's was all that good either. Check that, it was excellent on some tracks (LS) horrid on others (most fantasy tracks, Road Atlanta).

On 2006-09-08 11:29:49 +0100, Paul Heslop <[email hidden]> said:

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> Zomoniac wrote: >> >> On 2006-09-08 09:40:51 +0100, Paul Heslop <[email hidden]> said: >> >>> Dave wrote: >>>> >>>> In article <[email hidden]>, >>>> "The Gray One" <[email hidden]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Perhaps but GT4's handling of the cars is very arcady where as Forza >>>>> was far more realistic in terms of the driving model. >>>> >>>> Perhaps, but the braking was broke (far too sensitive). And some >>>> cars show too much power-on oversteer, most show too much throttle >>>> sensitivity in transition from over to understeer (IMHO). >>>> >>>> Maybe it would have been better if I used a good wheel instead of >>>> the stock controller? >>>> >>>> Also, lots of the cockpit views were broke. For instance the NSX's >>>> is from a worm's eye view. As opposed to one of the LMP cars >>>> (Cadillac?) which seemed to be from someone standing on top of it. >>> >>> the top view on GT4 were really crap though. >> >> Which view? If you play GT from anything other than the in-car view >> then I can't take you seriously :op >> > :O) I just dabble occasionally with all views. The one where you're > on the roof? You can see more of the roof than anything else > sometimes, if the vehicle is squareish and has a short front end. > makes it look like you're driving a box. > >> Shame PS2 isn't up to the job of a cockpit view, it must be said. > > But it has been, hasn't it? Colin Mcrae, the toca games?

Yeah but the cars there didn't look a tenth as good as on GT. I doubt it could get them up to a satisfactory level without sacrificing something major. -- http://myspace.com/zomoniac

Zomoniac wrote:

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> > On 2006-09-08 11:29:49 +0100, Paul Heslop <[email hidden]> said: > > > Zomoniac wrote: > >> > >> On 2006-09-08 09:40:51 +0100, Paul Heslop <[email hidden]> said: > >> > >>> Dave wrote: > >>>> > >>>> In article <[email hidden]>, > >>>> "The Gray One" <[email hidden]> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Perhaps but GT4's handling of the cars is very arcady where as Forza > >>>>> was far more realistic in terms of the driving model. > >>>> > >>>> Perhaps, but the braking was broke (far too sensitive). And some > >>>> cars show too much power-on oversteer, most show too much throttle > >>>> sensitivity in transition from over to understeer (IMHO). > >>>> > >>>> Maybe it would have been better if I used a good wheel instead of > >>>> the stock controller? > >>>> > >>>> Also, lots of the cockpit views were broke. For instance the NSX's > >>>> is from a worm's eye view. As opposed to one of the LMP cars > >>>> (Cadillac?) which seemed to be from someone standing on top of it. > >>> > >>> the top view on GT4 were really crap though. > >> > >> Which view? If you play GT from anything other than the in-car view > >> then I can't take you seriously :op > >> > > :O) I just dabble occasionally with all views. The one where you're > > on the roof? You can see more of the roof than anything else > > sometimes, if the vehicle is squareish and has a short front end. > > makes it look like you're driving a box. > > > >> Shame PS2 isn't up to the job of a cockpit view, it must be said. > > > > But it has been, hasn't it? Colin Mcrae, the toca games? > > Yeah but the cars there didn't look a tenth as good as on GT. I doubt > it could get them up to a satisfactory level without sacrificing > something major. > > -- > http://myspace.com/zomoniac

Yeah, and i don't know if it's really true but I felt as the series progressed the cars look less realistic, more like tin toys, specially the touring cars. It's like they couldn't be bothered to smooth out the edges. When we first got a demo for TOCA on the pc, or amiga, whichever it was at the time we were so gobsmacked at the detail and specially the damage. I didn't even try to race, just drove round smashing into stuff! Then Toca two had all that thick pluming smoke from the engine, ace stuff now commonplace and boring. -- Paul (Neurotic to the bone No doubt about it) ------------------------------------------------------ Stop and Look http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/

Dave wrote:

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> > In article <[email hidden]>, Paul Heslop <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >the top view on GT4 were really crap though. > > Seconding the other guy's post, I always stay in-car. > Yes, I'd love them to add true cockpits ala PGR3. But you know > what? In playing that game 3-4 hrs (borrowed X360), I found myself > turning off the dash. Why? While it is very pretty, it is > distracting and gives you less of a view of the road than you'd have > in real racing. I auto-X and have tracked my car a couple of times. > You pay zero attention to the cockpit. And, at least with my Miata, > you see a lot more outside than from these cockpit views. >

I did try desperately try to stick to full cockpit but in most modern games,as you say it is well off putting. On NFSU2 etc i do drive internal for about 90% of the time as otherwise you would be hitting anything and everything. Forza is mainly internal but GT4 I think it depended on the track. The tight ones had to be internal, to give you a real sense of the claustrophobic nature of the track so you didn't just play dodgems with the side rails.

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> after three tries that > >was the best they could do? I always loved the GT series but that game > >had to be the biggest let down in many depts. > > I agree there. While the 480p and 1080i, 500+ cars and record # of > tracks were all improvements, it just was too much like GT3 after > the long wait. >

sad isn't it? fingers crossed that 5 isn't going to just be a prettier version for a new console? > >get NO PENALTY! In a 'sim' surely it should be evenly balanced and > >both cars play by the same rules? > > I'm just more tired of the crappy AI. But I didn't think Forza's > was all that good either. Check that, it was excellent on some > tracks (LS) horrid on others (most fantasy tracks, Road Atlanta). Yeah, i agree, though at least it was more random. It was dirty, and I mean DIRTY, again more like an arcade racer, all that tapping rear ends etc which in real motor sport would probably incur you huge fines and of course the damage they receive is never quite as bad as the pile of mangled tin you end up driving over the line :O) -- Paul (Neurotic to the bone No doubt about it) ------------------------------------------------------ Stop and Look http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/