Nascar Thunder 2002 --- Early Results --- Kudos to EA!

Graphics: VERY Smooth vs. N2002 Physics: Cross between Heat and N2002. N2002 have always felt like I was on "Ice", Thunder feels more sticky, but the setup options within the game affect the cars very similar to N2002. Damage: More forgiving that N2002 Sound: At times... must give this to N2002, but at others... give it to Thunder. Multiplayer: Only joined one race, but it was very smooth play. No warping at all. AI: So far, head and shoulders above N2002, but this is VERY early. I hate N2002 AI BTW :) Some cool things: You can definately bump a little without spinning out. You can also get someone loose without spinning them out. They have modeled this part of the game very well. Kudos EA

On Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:26:34 -0500, "Bill Bollinger" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Graphics: VERY Smooth vs. N2002 Do you have F1 2002? If so, how do they compare? >Damage: More forgiving that N2002 Ouch. =( I'm guessing since it uses the ISI engine there's a damage slider? If you have it at 100, here's to hoping you can hack an .ini file and set it higher. Jason

39.99 Today at EB.... "Dameon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:26:34 -0500, "Bill Bollinger" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Graphics: VERY Smooth vs. N2002 > > > >Physics: Cross between Heat and N2002. N2002 have always felt like Iwas > >on "Ice", Thunder feels more sticky, but the setup options within thegame

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> >affect the cars very similar to N2002. > > > >Damage: More forgiving that N2002 > > > >Sound: At times... must give this to N2002, but at others... give it to > >Thunder. > > > >Multiplayer: Only joined one race, but it was very smooth play. No

warping > >at all. > > > >AI: So far, head and shoulders above N2002, but this is VERY early. Ihate > >N2002 AI BTW :) > > > >Some cool things: You can definately bump a little without spinning out. > >You can also get someone loose without spinning them out. They havemodeled

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> >this part of the game very well. > > > >Kudos EA > > > > Is this a store bought version or are you commenting on a warez copy. > :-) > Just wondering if it's in the store yet.

"Bill Bollinger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Graphics: VERY Smooth vs. N2002 I'm sure the graphics will be excellent. > Physics: Cross between Heat and N2002. N2002 have always felt like I was > on "Ice", Thunder feels more sticky, but the setup options within the game > affect the cars very similar to N2002. I hope you can run multiple lines in a more realistic manner. > Damage: More forgiving that N2002 > > Sound: At times... must give this to N2002, but at others... give it to > Thunder. > > Multiplayer: Only joined one race, but it was very smooth play. Nowarping > at all. The BIG question is how many cars can race at once? Also, can cars bump each other more than they can in N2002? David G Fisher

On Wed, 16 Oct 2002 18:52:22 -0400, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote: >I hope you can run multiple lines in a more realistic manner. You can race multiple lines in N2002 just fine. (I mean "you" in the collective sense, not you David.) =p Jason

You can run more than 1 line arround the track, and according to EA, the max players currently online is 16. I think all bets are off, if/when they come out with a dedicated server for Thunder. "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > "Bill Bollinger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Graphics: VERY Smooth vs. N2002 > > I'm sure the graphics will be excellent. > > > Physics: Cross between Heat and N2002. N2002 have always felt like I

was > > on "Ice", Thunder feels more sticky, but the setup options within thegame

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> > affect the cars very similar to N2002. > > I hope you can run multiple lines in a more realistic manner. > > > Damage: More forgiving that N2002 > > > > Sound: At times... must give this to N2002, but at others... give it to > > Thunder. > > > > Multiplayer: Only joined one race, but it was very smooth play. No > warping > > at all. > > The BIG question is how many cars can race at once? Also, can cars bump

each > other more than they can in N2002? > > David G Fisher > >

I forgot to ask about tire wear. I know it will take some time behind the wheel to know for sure, but how does it compare to N2002? David G Fisher "Bill Bollinger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > You can run more than 1 line arround the track, and according to EA, themax > players currently online is 16. I think all bets are off, if/when theycome

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> out with a dedicated server for Thunder. > > > > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > "Bill Bollinger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > Graphics: VERY Smooth vs. N2002 > > > > I'm sure the graphics will be excellent. > > > > > Physics: Cross between Heat and N2002. N2002 have always felt like I > was > > > on "Ice", Thunder feels more sticky, but the setup options within the > game > > > affect the cars very similar to N2002. > > > > I hope you can run multiple lines in a more realistic manner. > > > > > Damage: More forgiving that N2002 > > > > > > Sound: At times... must give this to N2002, but at others... give it

to

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> > > Thunder. > > > > > > Multiplayer: Only joined one race, but it was very smooth play. No > > warping > > > at all. > > > > The BIG question is how many cars can race at once? Also, can cars bump > each > > other more than they can in N2002? > > > > David G Fisher > > > > > >

Is the just IP multiplayer with AI cars? So me and a friend can race with other AI cars. "Bill Bollinger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Graphics: VERY Smooth vs. N2002 > > Physics: Cross between Heat and N2002. N2002 have always felt like I was > on "Ice", Thunder feels more sticky, but the setup options within the game > affect the cars very similar to N2002. > > Damage: More forgiving that N2002 > > Sound: At times... must give this to N2002, but at others... give it to > Thunder. > > Multiplayer: Only joined one race, but it was very smooth play. No

warping > at all. > > AI: So far, head and shoulders above N2002, but this is VERY early. Ihate > N2002 AI BTW :) > > Some cool things: You can definately bump a little without spinning out. > You can also get someone loose without spinning them out. They havemodeled > this part of the game very well. > > Kudos EA > >

Of course the big selling point for me is the TRACK EDITOR! (it does come with a track editor, as per some previews I saw, right?) So I can finally design all those fantasy tracks in my head-I wonder how steep you can make the banking...? (45 degrees-drool...) John DiFool -- ======================================================== I go back to my blindness So that I can see again ========================================================

From the pictures I've just seen at BHmotorsports, it would seem the in-game cars don't even have 3D wheels (inner bevel?); kinda like 4 hockey pucks with textures slapped on them.... reminds of Nascar 2... I'll wait for a demo before getting this one. -- Philippe "Philster" Sergerie "Bill Bollinger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Graphics: VERY Smooth vs. N2002 > > Physics: Cross between Heat and N2002. N2002 have always felt like I was > on "Ice", Thunder feels more sticky, but the setup options within the game > affect the cars very similar to N2002. > > Damage: More forgiving that N2002 > > Sound: At times... must give this to N2002, but at others... give it to > Thunder. > > Multiplayer: Only joined one race, but it was very smooth play. No warping > at all. > > AI: So far, head and shoulders above N2002, but this is VERY early. I hate > N2002 AI BTW :) > > Some cool things: You can definately bump a little without spinning out. > You can also get someone loose without spinning them out. They have modeled > this part of the game very well. > > Kudos EA > >

Really hard to tell right now David... Havn't raced it enough. "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> I forgot to ask about tire wear. I know it will take some time behind the > wheel to know for sure, but how does it compare to N2002? > > David G Fisher > > > "Bill Bollinger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > You can run more than 1 line arround the track, and according to EA, the > max > > players currently online is 16. I think all bets are off, if/when they > come > > out with a dedicated server for Thunder. > > > > > > > > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > "Bill Bollinger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > Graphics: VERY Smooth vs. N2002 > > > > > > I'm sure the graphics will be excellent. > > > > > > > Physics: Cross between Heat and N2002. N2002 have always felt like

I > > was > > > > on "Ice", Thunder feels more sticky, but the setup options withinthe

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> > game > > > > affect the cars very similar to N2002. > > > > > > I hope you can run multiple lines in a more realistic manner. > > > > > > > Damage: More forgiving that N2002 > > > > > > > > Sound: At times... must give this to N2002, but at others... give

it

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> to > > > > Thunder. > > > > > > > > Multiplayer: Only joined one race, but it was very smooth play. No > > > warping > > > > at all. > > > > > > The BIG question is how many cars can race at once? Also, can cars

bump

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> > each > > > other more than they can in N2002? > > > > > > David G Fisher > > > > > > > > > > > >

OUCH !!! Good one Jason! :-) "Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> You can race multiple lines in N2002 just fine. > (I mean "you" in the collective sense, not you David.) > > =p > > Jason >

I bought the game and I was wondering how to fix this. Is there a way? All the wheels do look like hockey pucks. John "Philster" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Dnnr9.32565$[email hidden]... > From the pictures I've just seen at BHmotorsports, it would seem thein-game

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> cars don't even have 3D wheels (inner bevel?); kinda like 4 hockey pucks > with textures slapped on them.... reminds of Nascar 2... > > I'll wait for a demo before getting this one. > > -- > Philippe "Philster" Sergerie > > "Bill Bollinger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Graphics: VERY Smooth vs. N2002 > > > > Physics: Cross between Heat and N2002. N2002 have always felt like I

was > > on "Ice", Thunder feels more sticky, but the setup options within thegame

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> > affect the cars very similar to N2002. > > > > Damage: More forgiving that N2002 > > > > Sound: At times... must give this to N2002, but at others... give it to > > Thunder. > > > > Multiplayer: Only joined one race, but it was very smooth play. No > warping > > at all. > > > > AI: So far, head and shoulders above N2002, but this is VERY early. I > hate > > N2002 AI BTW :) > > > > Some cool things: You can definately bump a little without spinning

out.

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> > You can also get someone loose without spinning them out. They have > modeled > > this part of the game very well. > > > > Kudos EA > > > > > >

"John McClaren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:qopr9.223665$[email hidden]... > I bought the game and I was wondering how to fix this. Is there a way? All > the wheels do look like hockey pucks. > > John Looks like fishing ain't to good this evening.

> I bought the game and I was wondering how to fix this. Is there a way? All > the wheels do look like hockey pucks. Wheel graphics are very easily fixed by the mod community. Won't be long.... The important questions are..is the core game solid? Multiplayer work well on modems? Replays OK? Physics believable?

On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 21:17:30 +1000, "Damien Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote: >The important questions are..is the core game solid? Multiplayer work well >on modems? Replays OK? Physics believable? Imagine if someone released a game exactly like F1 2002, but with NASCARS. Imagine if doing so made all of the crap aspects of the F12k2 model stand out more. Imagine if the replay system was actually less functional than F1 2002 (either that or they changed the key shortcut for switching cars in replay - seems unlikely since all the camera keys are the same). Imagine being able to take any corner at any course 4-wide. Imagine making contact with another car and bouncing off like you're playing bumper cars. Imagine having an icon of 2 cars drafting and a big glowing, pulsating line pointing to the bumper of the car in front of you to let you know you ought to be drafting them. Imagine announcing that's more annoying than Benny Parsons. Imagine the worst menu system ever designed, despite being based on one that was semi usable. Imagine running a race and having multiple cars with the number "21" because the game randomly throws Busch and Legends drivers into the field. Imagine the crappy track modelling from F1 2002 applied to ovals, and then imagine trying to drive Bristol when it's impossible to keep all 4 wheels on the ground because completely unrealistic high frequency bump modelling is sending you 6 inches into the air every few feet along the track Jason

Thanks, sounds excellent. Will definitely pick this one up.

(1) Yes, (2) Not sure, (3) OK, (4) Definately "Damien Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:aom68t$ng3la$[email hidden]... > > I bought the game and I was wondering how to fix this. Is there a way?All > > the wheels do look like hockey pucks. > > Wheel graphics are very easily fixed by the mod community. Won't belong.... > > The important questions are..is the core game solid? Multiplayer workwell > on modems? Replays OK? Physics believable? > >

"Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 21:17:30 +1000, "Damien Smith" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > Busch and Legends drivers into the field. Imagine the crappy track > modelling from F1 2002 applied to ovals, and then imagine trying to > drive Bristol when it's impossible to keep all 4 wheels on the ground > because completely unrealistic high frequency bump modelling is > sending you 6 inches into the air every few feet along the track > > Jason

You need to learn NOT to just ram into the cars Jason :) I know in N2002 they would just move out of the way, but NT2003, they actually race more human :)

How many guys were you racing against (not AI)? My guess not 30! ex On Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:26:34 -0500, "Bill Bollinger" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Multiplayer: Only joined one race, but it was very smooth play. No warping >at all.

On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:18:21 GMT, [email hidden] wrote: >How many guys were you racing against (not AI)? My guess not 30! The game only supports 16. Jason

So the max limit is 16? makes it useless then for league use. "Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:18:21 GMT, [email hidden] > wrote: > > >How many guys were you racing against (not AI)? My guess not 30! > > The game only supports 16. > > Jason

Well we run with 20-25 per race. Limiting to 16 is not an option. Limited online support is a big negative for us at least. "Bill Bollinger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Yah, because most leagues have well past 16 quality racers :) > > > "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:TcBr9.121973$[email hidden]... > > So the max limit is 16? makes it useless then for league use. > > > > "Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:18:21 GMT, [email hidden] > > > wrote: > > > > > > >How many guys were you racing against (not AI)? My guess not 30! > > > > > > The game only supports 16. > > > > > > Jason > > > > > >

Well we run with 20-25 per race. Limiting to 16 is not an option. Limited online support is a big negative for us at least.

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> Yah, because most leagues have well past 16 quality racers :) > > So the max limit is 16? makes it useless then for league use. > > > >How many guys were you racing against (not AI)? My guess not 30! > > > The game only supports 16. > > > Jason

The issue is they are not supporting it out of the box, nor have they to date with any F1 title. They seem to be a number of steps behind on Papy. I'd love for EA to pull off a decent sim since they will be the only choice soon but so far things don't look good. "Bill Bollinger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3daeeb77$[email hidden]...

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> I raced with as many as I did the first time N3 came out. Which btw, also > didn't have a dedicated server when it released, but did several months > later. I will be shocked if EA doesn't support 30+ racer action at some > point. > > > <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > How many guys were you racing against (not AI)? My guess not 30! > > > > ex > > > > On Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:26:34 -0500, "Bill Bollinger" > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > >Multiplayer: Only joined one race, but it was very smooth play. No > warping > > >at all. > > > >

I raced with as many as I did the first time N3 came out. Which btw, also didn't have a dedicated server when it released, but did several months later. I will be shocked if EA doesn't support 30+ racer action at some point. <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> How many guys were you racing against (not AI)? My guess not 30! > > ex > > On Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:26:34 -0500, "Bill Bollinger" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Multiplayer: Only joined one race, but it was very smooth play. No

warping > >at all. >

Yah, because most leagues have well past 16 quality racers :) "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:TcBr9.121973$[email hidden]...

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> So the max limit is 16? makes it useless then for league use. > > "Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:18:21 GMT, [email hidden] > > wrote: > > > > >How many guys were you racing against (not AI)? My guess not 30! > > > > The game only supports 16. > > > > Jason > >

Yeah and the rest of the league members can just go find a NEW league... *rolling eyes* I don't care if your statement was meant as a joke or not. It was incredibly shallow. Tear your lips off of EA's collective butt for a second and look at the reality of a max. of 16 players in a "sim" in a league atmosphere. I have raced with FRS as well as in a few of the RASCAR events and other leagues/events etc. and almost all have exceeded 16 drivers. Especially FRS. - Isotrip� "Bill Bollinger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Yah, because most leagues have well past 16 quality racers :) > > > "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:TcBr9.121973$[email hidden]... > > So the max limit is 16? makes it useless then for league use. > > > > "Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:18:21 GMT, [email hidden] > > > wrote: > > > > > > >How many guys were you racing against (not AI)? My guess not 30! > > > > > > The game only supports 16. > > > > > > Jason > > > > > >

On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 13:07:14 -0300, "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote: >So the max limit is 16? makes it useless then for league use. I don't think you'd want to base a league around this physics engine anyway, in all honesty. You'd be better off with NASCAR Heat, it's a much much better sim. Jason

Hmm, let's just see. Did Papy have dedicated server support for N3 out of the box? No. Did Papy have any clue as to how to model camber properly in N4 out of the box? No. Did Papy have any decent dedicated server options in N4 out of the box? No. Do we have fewer dedicated server options in N2002 than we HAD in N3? Yes. Has anyone ever run in a successful 42 man online race at ANY track? No. Was Papy's online prediction code successful out of the box (N4 and N2002)? No. Was Papy's modeling of the draft successful out of the box in N2002? No. Obviously, EA has a lot of work to do to get some decent multiplayer. The question to me is: Will they? If they show support to this community, like they do show some of their other online communities, we all will have more fun. If they don't then of course N2003 will be the only thing we have. If Sierra goes bye bye (Which isn't out of the question with all of Vivendi's Financial Problems). What happens to online racing then? Papy took out the race broadcasting info from N2002, therefore, we couldn't use another service like WinVROC, gamespy etc... I guess we could still pay to race at Onlineracin.com "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:DVBr9.121995$[email hidden]... > The issue is they are not supporting it out of the box, nor have they to > date with any F1 title. > They seem to be a number of steps behind on Papy. > I'd love for EA to pull off a decent sim since they will be the onlychoice > soon but so far things don't look good. > > "Bill Bollinger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:3daeeb77$[email hidden]... > > I raced with as many as I did the first time N3 came out. Which btw,also

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> > didn't have a dedicated server when it released, but did several months > > later. I will be shocked if EA doesn't support 30+ racer action at some > > point. > > > > > > <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > How many guys were you racing against (not AI)? My guess not 30! > > > > > > ex > > > > > > On Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:26:34 -0500, "Bill Bollinger" > > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > > > >Multiplayer: Only joined one race, but it was very smooth play. No > > warping > > > >at all. > > > > > > > > >

"Has anyone ever run in a successful 42 man online race at ANY track? No" Yes we have. As for the server issue, hosting an IP based server is fine for leagues and a service could easily be established to list races I'm sure. "Bill Bollinger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Hmm, let's just see. > > Did Papy have dedicated server support for N3 out of the box? No. > Did Papy have any clue as to how to model camber properly in N4 out of the > box? No. > Did Papy have any decent dedicated server options in N4 out of the box?No. > Do we have fewer dedicated server options in N2002 than we HAD in N3?Yes. > Has anyone ever run in a successful 42 man online race at ANY track? No. > Was Papy's online prediction code successful out of the box (N4 andN2002)? > No. > Was Papy's modeling of the draft successful out of the box in N2002? No. > > > Obviously, EA has a lot of work to do to get some decent multiplayer. The > question to me is: Will they? If they show support to this community,like

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> they do show some of their other online communities, we all will have more > fun. If they don't then of course N2003 will be the only thing we have. > > If Sierra goes bye bye (Which isn't out of the question with all of > Vivendi's Financial Problems). What happens to online racing then? Papy > took out the race broadcasting info from N2002, therefore, we couldn't use > another service like WinVROC, gamespy etc... I guess we could still pay

to

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> race at Onlineracin.com > > > > > "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:DVBr9.121995$[email hidden]... > > The issue is they are not supporting it out of the box, nor have they to > > date with any F1 title. > > They seem to be a number of steps behind on Papy. > > I'd love for EA to pull off a decent sim since they will be the only > choice > > soon but so far things don't look good. > > > > "Bill Bollinger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:3daeeb77$[email hidden]... > > > I raced with as many as I did the first time N3 came out. Which btw, > also > > > didn't have a dedicated server when it released, but did several

months > > > later. I will be shocked if EA doesn't support 30+ racer action atsome

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> > > point. > > > > > > > > > <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > How many guys were you racing against (not AI)? My guess not 30! > > > > > > > > ex > > > > > > > > On Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:26:34 -0500, "Bill Bollinger" > > > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > > > > > >Multiplayer: Only joined one race, but it was very smooth play.

No

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> > > warping > > > > >at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Successful, doesn't mean just having 42 guys in the server. It means actually RACING it. I can name 10 tracks that 42 guys will not work well online with 42. Heck most races are worthless when you get over 24. Caution, Caution, Caution, Caution.... Not to mention the chatting that goes on after every wreck... Don't be so confident on a service being easily established to list races. Especially with the way it is currently configured. "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:esDr9.122048$[email hidden]... > "Has anyone ever run in a successful 42 man online race at ANY track? No" > Yes we have. > > As for the server issue, hosting an IP based server is fine for leaguesand

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> a service could easily be established to list races I'm sure. > > "Bill Bollinger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Hmm, let's just see. > > > > Did Papy have dedicated server support for N3 out of the box? No. > > Did Papy have any clue as to how to model camber properly in N4 out of

the

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> > box? No. > > Did Papy have any decent dedicated server options in N4 out of the box? > No. > > Do we have fewer dedicated server options in N2002 than we HAD in N3? > Yes. > > Has anyone ever run in a successful 42 man online race at ANY track? No. > > Was Papy's online prediction code successful out of the box (N4 and > N2002)? > > No. > > Was Papy's modeling of the draft successful out of the box in N2002?

No. > > > > > > Obviously, EA has a lot of work to do to get some decent multiplayer.The > > question to me is: Will they? If they show support to this community, > like > > they do show some of their other online communities, we all will havemore > > fun. If they don't then of course N2003 will be the only thing we have. > > > > If Sierra goes bye bye (Which isn't out of the question with all of > > Vivendi's Financial Problems). What happens to online racing then?Papy > > took out the race broadcasting info from N2002, therefore, we couldn'tuse

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> > another service like WinVROC, gamespy etc... I guess we could still pay > to > > race at Onlineracin.com > > > > > > > > > > "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:DVBr9.121995$[email hidden]... > > > The issue is they are not supporting it out of the box, nor have they

to

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> > > date with any F1 title. > > > They seem to be a number of steps behind on Papy. > > > I'd love for EA to pull off a decent sim since they will be the only > > choice > > > soon but so far things don't look good. > > > > > > "Bill Bollinger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:3daeeb77$[email hidden]... > > > > I raced with as many as I did the first time N3 came out. Which

btw,

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> > also > > > > didn't have a dedicated server when it released, but did several > months > > > > later. I will be shocked if EA doesn't support 30+ racer action at > some > > > > point. > > > > > > > > > > > > <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > How many guys were you racing against (not AI)? My guess not 30! > > > > > > > > > > ex > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:26:34 -0500, "Bill Bollinger" > > > > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >Multiplayer: Only joined one race, but it was very smooth play. > No > > > > warping > > > > > >at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

<sigh> Ok you win. I have run successful races with over 40, and run almost every league race with over 20. "Bill Bollinger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Successful, doesn't mean just having 42 guys in the server. It means > actually RACING it. I can name 10 tracks that 42 guys will not work well > online with 42. Heck most races are worthless when you get over 24. > Caution, Caution, Caution, Caution.... Not to mention the chatting thatgoes

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> on after every wreck... > > Don't be so confident on a service being easily established to list races. > Especially with the way it is currently configured. > > > "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:esDr9.122048$[email hidden]... > > "Has anyone ever run in a successful 42 man online race at ANY track?

No"

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> > Yes we have. > > > > As for the server issue, hosting an IP based server is fine for leagues > and > > a service could easily be established to list races I'm sure. > > > > "Bill Bollinger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > Hmm, let's just see. > > > > > > Did Papy have dedicated server support for N3 out of the box? No. > > > Did Papy have any clue as to how to model camber properly in N4 out of > the > > > box? No. > > > Did Papy have any decent dedicated server options in N4 out of the

box? > > No. > > > Do we have fewer dedicated server options in N2002 than we HAD in N3? > > Yes. > > > Has anyone ever run in a successful 42 man online race at ANY track?No.

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> > > Was Papy's online prediction code successful out of the box (N4 and > > N2002)? > > > No. > > > Was Papy's modeling of the draft successful out of the box in N2002? > No. > > > > > > > > > Obviously, EA has a lot of work to do to get some decent multiplayer. > The > > > question to me is: Will they? If they show support to this

community, > > like > > > they do show some of their other online communities, we all will have > more > > > fun. If they don't then of course N2003 will be the only thing wehave.

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> > > > > > If Sierra goes bye bye (Which isn't out of the question with all of > > > Vivendi's Financial Problems). What happens to online racing then? > Papy > > > took out the race broadcasting info from N2002, therefore, we couldn't > use > > > another service like WinVROC, gamespy etc... I guess we could still

pay

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> > to > > > race at Onlineracin.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Schooner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:DVBr9.121995$[email hidden]... > > > > The issue is they are not supporting it out of the box, nor have

they

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> to > > > > date with any F1 title. > > > > They seem to be a number of steps behind on Papy. > > > > I'd love for EA to pull off a decent sim since they will be the only > > > choice > > > > soon but so far things don't look good. > > > > > > > > "Bill Bollinger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:3daeeb77$[email hidden]... > > > > > I raced with as many as I did the first time N3 came out. Which > btw, > > > also > > > > > didn't have a dedicated server when it released, but did several > > months > > > > > later. I will be shocked if EA doesn't support 30+ racer action

at

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> > some > > > > > point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > How many guys were you racing against (not AI)? My guess not

30!

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> > > > > > > > > > > > ex > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:26:34 -0500, "Bill Bollinger" > > > > > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > >Multiplayer: Only joined one race, but it was very smooth

play.

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> > No > > > > > warping > > > > > > >at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

And remember this comes from a guy that "has more laps than Richard Petty" ..he said that on tape!!! I just wonder how much EA is paying him to praise this piece of crap.

Get back in your hole troll :) The measly money any of these guys could pay me isn't worth my trouble. I speak the truth with my reviews. You may not agree today, but you will someday :) "me" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > And remember this comes from a guy that "has more laps > than Richard Petty" ..he said that on tape!!! > I just wonder how much EA is paying him to praise > this piece of crap.

Jason Moyer wrote:

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> On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:18:21 GMT, [email hidden] > wrote: > >> How many guys were you racing against (not AI)? My guess not 30! > > The game only supports 16. > > Jason

And that's because Ed Martin says any more cannot be done LOL. Don Burnette

That the same Ed Martin that I used to go around and around with because he was telling us that INTERNET would replace hawaii! The one I said BS 2..lol Now he says 16 is the max.. I believe it ! Cause they dont have Mr. Muiltiplayer from Papyurs -- Donald Wilshe 888 588-9207 Martel Brothers Performance, Worlds Largest On-Line Auto Parts Mfg Catalog Library www.martelbros.com Other Interest: www.ivga.com www.games-advertising.com www.whra.com "Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... Jason Moyer wrote: > On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:18:21 GMT, [email hidden] > wrote: > >> How many guys were you racing against (not AI)? My guess not 30! > > The game only supports 16. > > Jason And that's because Ed Martin says any more cannot be done LOL. Don Burnette

Same reason why N4/2002 multiplayer games are bloated pigs compared to N3 multiplayer. Mr. Multiplayer left.... Still wonder what exactly happened in that relationship. GPL strikes (out) again LOL! The wonderful physics engine that killed a company. "Don Wilshe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:MVHr9.109693$[email hidden]... > That the same Ed Martin that I used to go around and around with becausehe > was telling us that INTERNET would replace hawaii! The one I said BS2..lol

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> > Now he says 16 is the max.. I believe it ! Cause they dont have Mr. > Muiltiplayer > from Papyurs > > -- > Donald Wilshe > 888 588-9207 > Martel Brothers Performance, Worlds Largest On-Line Auto Parts Mfg Catalog > Library > www.martelbros.com > Other Interest: > www.ivga.com > www.games-advertising.com > www.whra.com > > > "Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > Jason Moyer wrote: > > On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:18:21 GMT, [email hidden] > > wrote: > > > >> How many guys were you racing against (not AI)? My guess not 30! > > > > The game only supports 16. > > > > Jason > > And that's because Ed Martin says any more cannot be done LOL. > > Don Burnette > > >

>"me" <[email hidden]> wrote > And remember this comes from a guy that "has more laps > than Richard Petty" ..he said that on tape!!! > I just wonder how much EA is paying him to praise > this piece of crap. Hehehehe who are you really behind that nickname? Anyway Bill, I just don't get it how you can like it. It's okay for me you know, but I just feel weird. It's like me starting to like an Ubisoft game. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://ymenard.cjb.net/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

> Has anyone ever run in a successful 42 man online race at ANY track? No. Yes this was done at FRS with NR2002 Granted it was not 100% race length but yes we ran practice, Qualifying, Warm-up and the race without drops-Discos-major warp etc. It was a very successful race. Please stop assuming things... - Isotrip�

I find it odd that Bill seems to justify the state of NT2002 based on the short comings of earlier versions of the Papy titles. The Papy titles are by no means perfect but they are as close to a real NASCAR SIM as we have. I would love to see EA pull off a great title to replace it since they will soon be our only choice but lets not put blinders on. I don't care who makes the SIM as long as it is realistic and can support proper online racing for leagues. We all want different things out of a SIM and for me it is realism and online multiplayer. Also things need to be a step ahead of what we currently have. Perhaps EA is a bit behind Papy which is understandable and maybe NT2003 will be a step ahead but I see little value in switching if its not a move forward. From all indications EA is targeting the mass market and consoles with this and all their other titles which if that is the case is fine and their business decision. It is just too bad that the PC market is being left out in all this, getting stripped down versions that have key elements removed and only on the console version. "Isotrip�" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > Has anyone ever run in a successful 42 man online race at ANY track? No. > > > Yes this was done at FRS with NR2002 Granted it was not 100% race lengthbut

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> yes we ran practice, Qualifying, Warm-up and the race without > drops-Discos-major warp etc. It was a very successful race. > > Please stop assuming things... > > - Isotrip� > >

"Bill Bollinger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3daeeb77$[email hidden]... > I raced with as many as I did the first time N3 came out. Which btw, also > didn't have a dedicated server when it released, but did several months > later. I will be shocked if EA doesn't support 30+ racer action at some > point. > Bill have you raced any of the forefathers of Thunder? With SCGT you'd be lucky to get 3 or 4 solid connections, anymore and it would turn into a hiccuping slideshow. With F1 2k, 2kcs, 2k1, 2k2 they still have MASSIVE bandwidth requirements...I roughly guage them at approximentally 100kbs per user. And so far, the 'best' I have seen before the halucinajenic warping starts is about 6 cars. Now. I have one very important question to ask. EA 'says' Thunder supports 16 cars, but has ANYONE actually raced with that many? I've seen hosts on f1 2k2 that have 16 possible drivers, but I have never been in a session with more than 6 broadbanders that was drivable. So? What's the max possible and what is the max real-world? dave henrie

Was Papy involved in building a pay to play online gaming service? No. "I guess we could still pay to race at Onlineracin.com" - Which would be a smart thing to do. If more people did, it would be fantastic. But hey... this "MORE OPTIONS" route that was so strongly advocated has done wonders for the online sim racing community. *rolls eyes* -- Scott B. Husted PA-Scott ICQ# 4395450 http://www.Husted.cc

In article <[email hidden]>, "Bill Bollinger" <[email hidden]> writes: >Has anyone ever run in a successful 42 man online race at ANY track? No. Why not? Aren't there 42 spots with N2002...? Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:+8.03 N2002 Rank:+20.124 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Yes, filled with 42 brain-dead AI drivers, unfortunately :( I think the programming talent for AI at Papy has long since moved on. We can only _hope_ some miracle occurs in NR2003 since it's the last one. -Larry "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <[email hidden]>, "Bill Bollinger" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >Has anyone ever run in a successful 42 man online race at ANY track? No. > > Why not? Aren't there 42 spots with N2002...? > > Eldred > -- > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPLRank:+8.03 > N2002 Rank:+20.124 > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats

you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <jNEs9.160414$[email hidden]>, "Larry" <[email hidden]> writes: >Yes, filled with 42 brain-dead AI drivers, unfortunately :( > >I think the programming talent for AI at Papy has long since moved on. > >We can only _hope_ some miracle occurs in NR2003 since it's the last one. So what's the max online? I thought we were talking about that, not the AI... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:+6.21 N2002 Rank:+18.91 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

42, right ? -Larry "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <jNEs9.160414$[email hidden]>, "Larry" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >Yes, filled with 42 brain-dead AI drivers, unfortunately :( > > > >I think the programming talent for AI at Papy has long since moved on. > > > >We can only _hope_ some miracle occurs in NR2003 since it's the last one. > > So what's the max online? I thought we were talking about that, not the

AI...

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> > Eldred > -- > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPLRank:+6.21 > N2002 Rank:+18.91 > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats

you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <jNEs9.160414$[email hidden]>, "Larry" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >Yes, filled with 42 brain-dead AI drivers, unfortunately :( > > > >I think the programming talent for AI at Papy has long since moved on. > > > >We can only _hope_ some miracle occurs in NR2003 since it's the last one. > > So what's the max online? I thought we were talking about that, not the AI... > > Eldred > -- > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPLRank:+6.21 > N2002 Rank:+18.91 > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

I have been in some 32 player online pickup races. (usually 1/2 the field crashes on lap 1) I can't remember seeing any 42 player fields.

In article <ap2ibi$k4q$[email hidden]>, "Gordo" <[email hidden]> writes: >I have been in some 32 player online pickup races. (usually 1/2 the field >crashes on lap 1) I can't remember seeing any 42 player >fields. > But that points to driver skill(or lack therof), not the multiplayer model as someone was insinuating... I think that if I advertised an arcade damage Talladega or Daytona server, I could get 42 people to join. If that many slots are available in the game, I'm fairly sure that my server could handle it...<g> Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:+6.21 N2002 Rank:+18.91 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > But that points to driver skill(or lack therof), not the multiplayer modelas > someone was insinuating... > I think that if I advertised an arcade damage Talladega or Daytona server,I > could get 42 people to join. If that many slots are available in thegame, I'm > fairly sure that my server could handle it...<g> > > Eldred That many are availible, Joe Lomas did this on Flashpoint a while back testing one of the servers (before the move to OLR) It worked extremely well. - Isotrip�

I don't think anyone is disputing that 42 people online were possible and stable. The problem is that I have yet to ever see/or hear of a good online race with yellows that involved 42 people. "Isotrip�" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > But that points to driver skill(or lack therof), not the multiplayermodel > as > > someone was insinuating... > > I think that if I advertised an arcade damage Talladega or Daytonaserver,

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> I > > could get 42 people to join. If that many slots are available in the > game, I'm > > fairly sure that my server could handle it...<g> > > > > Eldred > > That many are availible, Joe Lomas did this on Flashpoint a while back > testing one of the servers (before the move to OLR) It worked extremely > well. > > - Isotrip� > >

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > But that points to driver skill(or lack therof), not the multiplayer modelas > someone was insinuating... > I think that if I advertised an arcade damage Talladega or Daytona server,I > could get 42 people to join. If that many slots are available in thegame, I'm > fairly sure that my server could handle it...<g> > Having the server handle it and not having people warp is two different things. You get 42 people in a race vs. 24 you are 75% more likely you will see warp from a driver. This driver because he is racing in a 42 man race can affect many more racers and lead to much larger pileups. While I am not saying that N2002's multiplayer code stinks (because it doesn't, other than the idea that the person in the low line (if he warps) will always take out a higher line car and never be none the wiser)), the idea that not having successful 42 man online races is more of a function of racer skill is not true. I can round up 42 of the top say.. 200 online racers and it still wont work well. I have raced in too many online races to not be able to confidently say this.

"Bill Bollinger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3db6e583$[email hidden]... > I don't think anyone is disputing that 42 people online were possible and > stable. The problem is that I have yet to ever see/or hear of a goodonline > race with yellows that involved 42 people. > well 42 bumblers or 6 Thunderers...which is worse? I have been in large field SS races. (for some reason the masses avoid Sears tho.) The advantage of having a large field is finding comparable competition. with the 6 or fewer that most F1 2k2 races are: I rarely find an equally slow racer...so I spend the 5 to 10 laps motoring around mostly alone. Stuff me into a 42 car field and there will very likely be SOMEBODY I can draft with. dave henrie

In article <3db6e583$[email hidden]>, "Bill Bollinger" <[email hidden]> writes: >I don't think anyone is disputing that 42 people online were possible and >stable. The problem is that I have yet to ever see/or hear of a good online >race with yellows that involved 42 people. Ok - that's what I thought someone was saying - that it wasn't physically POSSIBLE to get 42 drivers. I'll agree about the difficulty of having a GOOD race, but I don't know how to fix that. Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:+6.21 N2002 Rank:+18.91 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

I don't think we can ever fix that problem Eldred. While 42 is possible, IMHO it isn't practicle. I believe about the max for a good online race is 24... I could MAYBE agree up to 28-32, but beyond that, it gets stupid. No way anyone will convince me 42 at bristol or marty online is worth my time to race. "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <3db6e583$[email hidden]>, "Bill Bollinger" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >I don't think anyone is disputing that 42 people online were possible and > >stable. The problem is that I have yet to ever see/or hear of a goodonline > >race with yellows that involved 42 people. > > Ok - that's what I thought someone was saying - that it wasn't physically > POSSIBLE to get 42 drivers. I'll agree about the difficulty of having aGOOD

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> race, but I don't know how to fix that. > > Eldred > -- > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPLRank:+6.21 > N2002 Rank:+18.91 > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats

you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On 24 Oct 2002 15:45:19 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: >Ok - that's what I thought someone was saying - that it wasn't physically >POSSIBLE to get 42 drivers. I'll agree about the difficulty of having a GOOD >race, but I don't know how to fix that. Maybe the real Winston Cup drivers would like to know how to fix that too. Seems like they're always bitching about iffy passes and people hitting each other. Oh wait, am I implying that making mistakes and having caution periods is one of the most realistic aspects of N2002? Oh my, I better go put my PapyNazi badge on my sleeve. Bah. FWIW, OSCAR (and I'd assume the Flashpoint Racing Series in general), when I was part of it, regularly had races with 30+ people and 0-2 cautions in a 50% race. That's better than the real guys. Jason

In article <3db81f16$[email hidden]>, "Bill Bollinger" <[email hidden]> writes: >I don't think we can ever fix that problem Eldred. While 42 is possible, >IMHO it isn't practicle. I believe about the max for a good online race is >24... I could MAYBE agree up to 28-32, but beyond that, it gets stupid. No >way anyone will convince me 42 at bristol or marty online is worth my time >to race. Well, even in a REAL race at those tracks you'll be pushing 10-12 cautions, maybe more. So the fact that crashes happen in an online race, in itself, isn't a reason to slag the racing. I've never SEEN a 42 car online race at either of those tracks, so I really DON'T know how bad it would be. Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:+6.21 N2002 Rank:+18.91 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.