Attention Thunder "critics"

I don't post here very often, and this is the first post of this nature I have made, but I can't stay quiet forever. It is very tiresome and discouraging coming into this group that I have read and enjoyed nearly every day for the past two years and still seeing a significant number of the posts devoted to Nascar Thunder bashing. OK...we "get it" ... the game has been out for a bit now... some of you don't still like this game... the rest of us know you don't like it from numerous posts reminding us over and over and over. Enough please. A recent post (from a very active critic) mentions problems with tire wear and AI. Please know that there is a standing request from the maker of Thunder at High Compression to post bugs, criticism, and suggestions for making the game better. Why not do something constructive like point out the problems that you see to this NG for our general awareness (without shouting for the 30th time that Thunder is a piece of (expicative)) and then go to that forum and register the complaint. Of course, we can't be sure that the problems will be fixed with a patch, but numerous complaints in an mature manner and in the appropriate forum are more likely to trigger a patch than constant whining in here, and will make this NG a more enjoyable place. If Thunder is not satisfactory to you, why not play some other game? "Doctor, it hurts when I do this" so the doctor says "well, don't do that any more!". Take two N2002s and a GPL and call me in the morning.

Nice to read ...lol good post...I agree 110% :)) "Bruce Millar" <[email hidden]> escreveu na mensagem news:[email hidden]...

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> I don't post here very often, and this is the first post of this > nature I have made, but I can't stay quiet forever. It is very > tiresome and discouraging coming into this group that I have read and > enjoyed nearly every day for the past two years and still seeing a > significant number of the posts devoted to Nascar Thunder bashing. > OK...we "get it" ... the game has been out for a bit now... some of > you don't still like this game... the rest of us know you don't like > it from numerous posts reminding us over and over and over. Enough > please. > > A recent post (from a very active critic) mentions problems with tire > wear and AI. Please know that there is a standing request from the > maker of Thunder at High Compression to post bugs, criticism, and > suggestions for making the game better. Why not do something > constructive like point out the problems that you see to this NG for > our general awareness (without shouting for the 30th time that Thunder > is a piece of (expicative)) and then go to that forum and register the > complaint. Of course, we can't be sure that the problems will be > fixed with a patch, but numerous complaints in an mature manner and in > the appropriate forum are more likely to trigger a patch than constant > whining in here, and will make this NG a more enjoyable place. > > If Thunder is not satisfactory to you, why not play some other game? > "Doctor, it hurts when I do this" so the doctor says "well, don't do > that any more!". Take two N2002s and a GPL and call me in the > morning.

Amen brother! "Bruce Millar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> I don't post here very often, and this is the first post of this > nature I have made, but I can't stay quiet forever. It is very > tiresome and discouraging coming into this group that I have read and > enjoyed nearly every day for the past two years and still seeing a > significant number of the posts devoted to Nascar Thunder bashing. > OK...we "get it" ... the game has been out for a bit now... some of > you don't still like this game... the rest of us know you don't like > it from numerous posts reminding us over and over and over. Enough > please. > > A recent post (from a very active critic) mentions problems with tire > wear and AI. Please know that there is a standing request from the > maker of Thunder at High Compression to post bugs, criticism, and > suggestions for making the game better. Why not do something > constructive like point out the problems that you see to this NG for > our general awareness (without shouting for the 30th time that Thunder > is a piece of (expicative)) and then go to that forum and register the > complaint. Of course, we can't be sure that the problems will be > fixed with a patch, but numerous complaints in an mature manner and in > the appropriate forum are more likely to trigger a patch than constant > whining in here, and will make this NG a more enjoyable place. > > If Thunder is not satisfactory to you, why not play some other game? > "Doctor, it hurts when I do this" so the doctor says "well, don't do > that any more!". Take two N2002s and a GPL and call me in the > morning.

"Bruce Millar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> I don't post here very often, and this is the first post of this > nature I have made, but I can't stay quiet forever. It is very > tiresome and discouraging coming into this group that I have read and > enjoyed nearly every day for the past two years and still seeing a > significant number of the posts devoted to Nascar Thunder bashing. > OK...we "get it" ... the game has been out for a bit now... some of > you don't still like this game... the rest of us know you don't like > it from numerous posts reminding us over and over and over. Enough > please.

So feel free to comment about a new title - just dont criticise it too much. lmfao Doug

> > So feel free to comment about a new title - just dont criticise it too much. > > lmfao > > Doug ha........................ya just can't leave it alone can ya..............

If you think anything will be fixed with a patch, you don't know much about EA Sports, or Ed Martin. While some may appreciate your wishful thinking, the reality is you're wasting your breath. History speaks for itself. The patch will come in the form of NT2004. And then the patch for that will be NT2005, etc. They may reach the level of papy products eventually, maybe. "Bruce Millar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> I don't post here very often, and this is the first post of this > nature I have made, but I can't stay quiet forever. It is very > tiresome and discouraging coming into this group that I have read and > enjoyed nearly every day for the past two years and still seeing a > significant number of the posts devoted to Nascar Thunder bashing. > OK...we "get it" ... the game has been out for a bit now... some of > you don't still like this game... the rest of us know you don't like > it from numerous posts reminding us over and over and over. Enough > please. > > A recent post (from a very active critic) mentions problems with tire > wear and AI. Please know that there is a standing request from the > maker of Thunder at High Compression to post bugs, criticism, and > suggestions for making the game better. Why not do something > constructive like point out the problems that you see to this NG for > our general awareness (without shouting for the 30th time that Thunder > is a piece of (expicative)) and then go to that forum and register the > complaint. Of course, we can't be sure that the problems will be > fixed with a patch, but numerous complaints in an mature manner and in > the appropriate forum are more likely to trigger a patch than constant > whining in here, and will make this NG a more enjoyable place. > > If Thunder is not satisfactory to you, why not play some other game? > "Doctor, it hurts when I do this" so the doctor says "well, don't do > that any more!". Take two N2002s and a GPL and call me in the > morning.

I return to my earlier thought about all this. It's pretty simple. If it's not GPL or Nascar 2003 or developed by Papyrus, it's no good. It's the way things have been going on around here for years. If someone thinks GPL and N2003 are the best racing simulators available, that's fine. It just doesn't mean that what is said is true for everyone. Everyone is entitled to an entitlement, though volume, by the same dozen or so posters, does not mean that no one else is entitled to their entitlement. It's the old ETE theory. :) Alanb "Bruce Millar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> I don't post here very often, and this is the first post of this > nature I have made, but I can't stay quiet forever. It is very > tiresome and discouraging coming into this group that I have read and > enjoyed nearly every day for the past two years and still seeing a > significant number of the posts devoted to Nascar Thunder bashing. > OK...we "get it" ... the game has been out for a bit now... some of > you don't still like this game... the rest of us know you don't like > it from numerous posts reminding us over and over and over. Enough > please. > > A recent post (from a very active critic) mentions problems with tire > wear and AI. Please know that there is a standing request from the > maker of Thunder at High Compression to post bugs, criticism, and > suggestions for making the game better. Why not do something > constructive like point out the problems that you see to this NG for > our general awareness (without shouting for the 30th time that Thunder > is a piece of (expicative)) and then go to that forum and register the > complaint. Of course, we can't be sure that the problems will be > fixed with a patch, but numerous complaints in an mature manner and in > the appropriate forum are more likely to trigger a patch than constant > whining in here, and will make this NG a more enjoyable place. > > If Thunder is not satisfactory to you, why not play some other game? > "Doctor, it hurts when I do this" so the doctor says "well, don't do > that any more!". Take two N2002s and a GPL and call me in the > morning.

"Jon T" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:apeacg$3ob$[email hidden]... > > > > So feel free to comment about a new title - just dont criticise it toomuch.

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> > > > lmfao > > > > Doug > > > ha........................ya just can't leave it alone can

ya.............. It's what he said. He's decided that he's had enough of people saying they dont like it - but I'm sure he'd be happy if people said they did. I mean - I know you're a narrow minded fool anyway - but really - I'd hope you could actually read. Doug

On 26 Oct 2002 05:02:19 -0700, [email hidden] (Bruce Millar) wrote:

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>A recent post (from a very active critic) mentions problems with tire >wear and AI. Please know that there is a standing request from the >maker of Thunder at High Compression to post bugs, criticism, and >suggestions for making the game better. Why not do something >constructive like point out the problems that you see to this NG for >our general awareness (without shouting for the 30th time that Thunder >is a piece of (expicative)) and then go to that forum and register the >complaint.

Are they going to issue a patch to fix the *worst track models I have ever seen in a computer game* ? Are they going to issue a patch to desaturate the obviously Disney-land inspired textures? Are they going to issue a patch with the career mode from the consoles? Assuming the answer to each of these questions is no, why do I give a shit if they fix the tire wear model? Are they also going to fix the camber model so that the setup parameters affect the car in a realistic manner? Are they going to add a multiplayer that is not only usable but smooth and stable on an analog modem with 42 people? We already have a simulation that is superior in nearly every way and is played by the actual professionals who participate in the sport and can attest to its realism without being handed a fistful of dollars. It should annoy EA that their multi-million dollar posterboy exclusively races Papyrus motor simulations. The arguments in favor of Thunder that I've read on this ng can be neatly summarized by "It's easier, therefore I like it more. It also runs faster than N2002 because the car models drop to 5 polygons when they get 3 feet away from the camera." Anyway, there are enough vigilant anti-Papyrus guys here who can always forward my tire wear/heat sentiments to Ed "we'll add yellows to multiplayer and fix the AI/damage model in a patch" Martin. No one ever answered my previous question about baseline setups for the SSM mod, by the way. Particularly looking for good baseline Vette setups that are fairly timid so I can do some tuning. I realize I'm risking my reputation as an anti-EA guy here by posting this. Now I think I'll go play some Madden 2003 or BF1942... Jason

On Sat, 26 Oct 2002 18:54:33 GMT, "Alan Bernardo" <[email hidden]> wrote: >If it's not GPL or Nascar 2003 or developed by Papyrus, it's no good. F1 2002 is good. Grand Prix 2, for its time, was good. Sportscar GT is good. Dirt Track Racing 2 is great (the earlier games were good). Rally Trophy is good. Mobil 1 Rally Championship is great. NASCAR Heat is good. Rally Masters is good. F355 for the Dreamcast is great. Le Mans 24 Hours for the Dreamcast is good (dunno what happened to the PC port) Cart Flag-to-Flag for the Dreamcast is arcade-oriented rubbish but still good Madden 2003 is good, altho it would be great if you could edit the aggressiveness of the CPU coaches and if it had the playbook editor from the consoles. Battlefield 1942 is good. System Shock 2, Deus Ex, Thief, Thief 2, No One Lives Forever, and No One Lives Forever 2 are all great. Sex is good. NASCAR Thunder is ok. It's not NASCAR Road Racing or 2000 or Revolution (or the PC version of the actually good Dreamcast Le Mans 24 Hours game), but few games are that bad. I'd put it on the same level with F1 2000. If the obvious bugs were fixed, the track models were fixed, the career mode from the consoles was added, the textures were desaturated (this really amazed me, I find the texture quality to be closer to SCGT and F12k than F1 2002 or any other modern sim), and the physics model was fixed so that a.) the car responded to input in a predictable and semi-realistic manner and b.) changing setup parameters altered the handling of a car in a predictable and semi-realistic manner then I think it could be a good or even great sim. It's not there yet, but I certainly don't want to discourage the developers from trying. Tiburion is much closer to being on the right track than the previous EA Nascar developer. Oh wait, I'm the guy who spent 2 hours racing the AI at Atlanta for the fun of it but is a tireless EA basher and Papy zealot for posting my critique of the tire/camber modelling. My bad. Anyway, next time you have something personal you'd like to argue, please attempt to include facts that support your argument so that the flamefest is at least fun and maybe interesting. The "nyeah nyeah you're an anti-Papy anti-EA anti-sex anti-anti" finger pointing is tiresome when there's no factual evidence to support those statements. We have more proof of Francois Menard being a homosexual via his fascination with pastels than we do that anyone on this board is biased towards a particular game developer. Jason

> > > > I mean - I know you're a narrow minded fool anyway - You know?.................... You would'nt know shit if it was spoon fed to ya, which is pretty bad considering your full of the stuff.

"Jon T" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:apf023$k4s$[email hidden]... > > > > > > > I mean - I know you're a narrow minded fool anyway - > > You know?.................... You would'nt know shit if it was spoon fedto ya, which > is pretty bad considering your full of the stuff. > You and red should form a double act Doug

> So, what do you think Dougie ? Have you played it yet ? Or just tagging > along with the rest of the sheep as per normal. Baaaaaaaaaaaaaa Where have I talked about the product? Where have I made criticism or praise of it? Thing is - I didnt. SO intent on having a dig@doug that you didnt even notice or take the time to see if I'd made any comments about it whatsoever. I havnt played it - and have no intention of doing so - as a result - I have not and will not pass judgement on it. You're just jumping on the slag-off-doug bandwaggon as usual. Baaaaaaaaa Doug

"redTed" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <_gEu9.327$jp2.47066@wards>, > [email hidden] says... > > > > > So, what do you think Dougie ? Have you played it yet ? Or justtagging > > > along with the rest of the sheep as per normal. Baaaaaaaaaaaaaa > > > > Where have I talked about the product? Where have I made criticism orpraise > > of it? Thing is - I didnt. SO intent on having a dig@doug that you didnt > > even notice or take the time to see if I'd made any comments about it > > whatsoever. > > > > I havnt played it - and have no intention of doing so - as a result - Ihave

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> > not and will not pass judgement on it. > > > > You're just jumping on the slag-off-doug bandwaggon as usual. Baaaaaaaaa > > > Don't dish it out if you can't take it, Dougie. > Your past history on RAS shows you to be a leader in the field of > slagging others off. So don't start crying when you get bit.

Answer my question - where did I talk about the product - and thus did you or did you not automatically jump to a false conclusion. Doug

"redTed" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > > > Answer my question - where did I talk about the product - and thus didyou > > or did you not automatically jump to a false conclusion. > > > > Objection, your honour ! Doug Ellison is talking out of his arse again. > > Sustained. Good argument Doug

"Bruce Millar" <[email hidden]> wrote. > OK...we "get it" "Stand up, sit up, shut up." - one of my old theological teacher This is a newsgroup about racing simulators. Either you post here wanting the best out of the intention of this NG (being going towards a perfect simulation), or you don't. We have seen post like yours DOZENS of times in the history of this NG, and they don't change anything. If you aren't happy about what the opinions of the others are, then it's YOUR job to take action. If you don't, well then just go wank yourself instead of reading the newsgroup as you are self-hurting yourself. > Why not do something constructive like point out the problems that you seeto this NG Because we don't care. We do whatever we want here. > If Thunder is not satisfactory to you, why not play some other game I love your human compassion for a piece of 0's and 1's. It's useless time wasted. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://ymenard.cjb.net/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

>"Alan Bernardo" <[email hidden]> wrote > I return to my earlier thought about all this. It's pretty simple. Yes we know with you all is pretty simple, nothing is complex. Tehehe. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://ymenard.cjb.net/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

"Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote > Are they going to issue a patch to fix the *worst track models I have > ever seen in a computer game* ? Are they going to issue a patch to > desaturate the obviously Disney-land inspired textures? Are they > going to issue a patch with the career mode from the consoles? <ouch> > Assuming the answer to each of these questions is no, why do I give a > shit if they fix the tire wear model? Are they also going to fix the > camber model so that the setup parameters affect the car in a > realistic manner? Are they going to add a multiplayer that is not > only usable but smooth and stable on an analog modem with 42 people? <ouch x2> > We already have a simulation that is superior in nearly every way Exactly. Why care? We'll hop the wagon when it reaches superior level to the premium sim on the market. Why race anything then the superior one? Why waste our time with inferior product? > is played by the actual professionals who participate in the sport and > can attest to its realism without being handed a fistful of dollars. <ouch x3>. That NOBODY here can even refute. It's an impossibility, to have Mr. Smuck kiddie gamer saying that Papyrus hasn't done the best sim ever with NR2002. > Anyway, there are enough vigilant anti-Papyrus guys here who can > always forward my tire wear/heat sentiments to Ed "we'll add yellows > to multiplayer and fix the AI/damage model in a patch" Martin. Don't forget the track editor, the infield road courses on the ovals and other fantasy road tracks he promised. > I realize I'm risking my reputation as an anti-EA guy here by postingthis. Now I > think I'll go play some Madden 2003 or BF1942... LOL

In article <[email hidden]>, redTed <[email hidden]> writes: >Ok. I give up.. You never said you had played it . But you did say you >had no intention of buying it. That implies that you are listening to >the usual suspects in RAS, and not letting yourself be very objective. > Ok, if people who's opinions you usually agree with don't like it, then it's probably a big gamble. There is no demo yet(right?), and EB has discontinued their returns policy. So that means if you DON'T like it, you've just wasted your money - with no recourse. Objectivity has nothing to do with it. It's simple fiscal responsibility. Of course, if I had money to burn I'd probably buy every game that came out...<g> Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:+6.21 N2002 Rank:+18.91 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Alan Bernardo wrote: > > I return to my earlier thought about all this. It's pretty simple. > > If it's not GPL or Nascar 2003 or developed by Papyrus, it's no good. It's > the way things have been going on around here for years. Who thinks like that? Name names. Gerry

"I like Coke better than Pepsi" (therefore) "Pepsi sucks" (therefore) "I must tell anyone who will listen that 'Pepsi sucks' so that they will know just how much I hate it" (and) "I must remind them every day, so that they don't forget" (so) "I am going to keep drinking Pepsi so that I don't forget how much I hate the taste of it" (then) "I will not forget to remind everyone how much it 'sucks'" (but) "no matter how much I hate Pepsi, I am not going to complain to Mr. Pepsi maker" (because) "I don't believe he will fix Pepsi and make it taste yummier" (so) "I will just get really, really mad and throw my toys at anyone who suggests that explicative filled complaints to the RAS NG might not help fix the problem" (btw) "can I have another Pepsi, please?"

Bruce Millar wrote:

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> > "I like Coke better than Pepsi" (therefore) "Pepsi sucks" (therefore) > "I must tell anyone who will listen that 'Pepsi sucks' so that they > will know just how much I hate it" (and) "I must remind them every > day, so that they don't forget" (so) "I am going to keep drinking > Pepsi so that I don't forget how much I hate the taste of it" (then) > "I will not forget to remind everyone how much it 'sucks'" (but) "no > matter how much I hate Pepsi, I am not going to complain to Mr. Pepsi > maker" (because) "I don't believe he will fix Pepsi and make it taste > yummier" (so) "I will just get really, really mad and throw my toys at > anyone who suggests that explicative filled complaints to the RAS NG > might not help fix the problem" (btw) "can I have another Pepsi, > please?"

Who thinks like that here? Name names please.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > so) "I will just get really, really mad and throw my toys at > anyone who suggests that explicative filled complaints to the RAS NG > might not help fix the problem" (btw) "can I have another Pepsi, > please?" > > There are two problems with your arguments. The first problem is your assertion that it is our duty to assist EA in fixing Thunder. It is not. The second problem is that you ignore the many problems in Thunder. The game is inferior to the NASCAR Racing series in many ways that have been well documented here. To ignore these problems means that you're either a blind EA fanboy or have different racing simulation standards than what I would call "serious" racing simulation fans have. I don't post much here, but the ridiculous assertions by Alan B. are really laughable if you've followed this group for even a minute. There are certain standards - like correctly modeling tracks, good driver AI, etc. at work. There are other non-Papyrus games that have been supported in this group over the years, so even that ridiculous assertion is wrong. Finally, notice the word "simulators" in the name of this group. If you want arcade-like or non-realistic driving fun (there are plenty games like that out there), then post somewhere else or follow one of the many groups where that is the subject. Here, it is all about how well games model real life racing. Thunder does a poorer job than the NASCAR Racing series does as a simulation. That's the long and short of it. Chris

"Gerry Aitken" wrote: > Bruce Millar wrote: > > > > "I like Coke better than Pepsi" (therefore) "Pepsi sucks" (therefore) > > "I must tell anyone who will listen that 'Pepsi sucks' so that they <snip> > > Who thinks like that here? Name names please. Of course we do. That is why we go to the GPL church every Sunday and pray that a sim better than GPL never sees the light of day and its developers are struck down by a mystery illness that renders them unable to enter another line of code. Any products that do hit the streets should be denounced as evil in RAS by the disciples so that the casual observer will realise not to purchase it. In extreme cases pressure should be bought on individuals to take the product back to the demon retailers. Where we have it on good authority that the devil is hatching plans to gain innocent RASers through the Doug Ellison alias we should join forces and denounce the Wests as conspirators. The sheer thought of a great new racing sim bring us out in a sweat, and we have to get a fix of GPL to overcome such a ridiculous thought. No, we will *never* even try another - what a crazy thought. Seriously, (the above wasn't for those wondering) how many don't want the next release from whoever to be a cutting edge sim, taking the genre a significant step forward, and not just another fun game for a few weeks? There will always be an optimistic view that a new release may be that step forward - a misguided belief that the latest will be the best. Sure some posters will go too far - yet we can usually form an opinion from the combined posts on the group. I find posts on products that people have played more constructive than the myriad of posts about products in development, for which I believe there is a stronger case for calling foul. Cheers Tony

"redTed" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > > > > Objection, your honour ! Doug Ellison is talking out of his arseagain.

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> > > > > > Sustained. > > > > Good argument > > > > Ta. > > Ok. I give up.. You never said you had played it . But you did say you > had no intention of buying it. That implies that you are listening to > the usual suspects in RAS, and not letting yourself be very objective. > > It's a decent game, and https://www.interactcd.com/ do a good deal. > Especially on shipping to the UK.

Tut tut - jumping to conclusions AGAIN ( although you did actually read what I'd posted for once - so well done there) The reason I will not be buying it is simply that after a few months of N2k2 I've had my fill of tank driving. I only put up with N2k2 as it has the best physics and net code there is. The tyre model is unsurpased and one can use it to learn about tyre management etc. I entered a fantastic league with it - won the league - and thats enough nascar for me. If being objective is wasting �25 on a product I dont actually want - then I'd rather not thanks. Doug

redTed wrote:

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> > In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] > says... > > Bruce Millar wrote: > > > > > > "I like Coke better than Pepsi" (therefore) "Pepsi sucks" (therefore) > > > "I must tell anyone who will listen that 'Pepsi sucks' so that they > > > will know just how much I hate it" (and) "I must remind them every > > > day, so that they don't forget" (so) "I am going to keep drinking > > > Pepsi so that I don't forget how much I hate the taste of it" (then) > > > "I will not forget to remind everyone how much it 'sucks'" (but) "no > > > matter how much I hate Pepsi, I am not going to complain to Mr. Pepsi > > > maker" (because) "I don't believe he will fix Pepsi and make it taste > > > yummier" (so) "I will just get really, really mad and throw my toys at > > > anyone who suggests that explicative filled complaints to the RAS NG > > > might not help fix the problem" (btw) "can I have another Pepsi, > > > please?" > > > > Who thinks like that here? Name names please. > > > How long have you been visiting RAS ? Come on. > Bruce Millar has a pretty valid point, and he puts it across with a > little bit of humour that doesn't go amiss here now and again. > I don't agree with Mr.Ymenard that the sole purpose of this NG is to > bring about the perfect driving simulator. Nobody here is going to > change anything, unless, of course, they decide to make one themselves > and they are blessed with a whole shit load of coding skills that they > have kept silent about. It's here for all the games that, arguably, come > under the title, driving simulators. We all know where the real line is > drawn as regards certain games and whether or not they can be included, > but HT 2003 is a close enough approximation of a driving sim to be > discussed and debated on this here NG. It's not the "POS" that someone > described it as. It's not perfect either. It's just another fun driving > sim that's entitled to its fair share of RAS time share.

No ones says it shouldn't de discussed, but the twit that started this thread has deemed it upon himself to decide what we are allowed to say about it.

> Crikey, the next thing you know, you might actually read MY posts ! Then > we would really be getting somewhere. You suggested that I wont buy NT'03 because of whats said in RAS. I suggest otherwise. Did I miss something/ DOug

"Christopher E. Johnson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] says... > > I don't post much here, but the ridiculous assertions by Alan B. are > really laughable if you've followed this group for even a minute. There > are certain standards - like correctly modeling tracks, good driver AI, > etc. at work. There are other non-Papyrus games that have been > supported in this group over the years, so even that ridiculous > assertion is wrong. Finally, notice the word "simulators" in the name > of this group. If you want arcade-like or non-realistic driving fun > (there are plenty games like that out there), then post somewhere else > or follow one of the many groups where that is the subject. Here, it is > all about how well games model real life racing. Thunder does a poorer > job than the NASCAR Racing series does as a simulation. That's the long > and short of it. >

YAWN.....

>"redTed" <[email hidden]> wrote > I don't agree with Mr.Ymenard that the sole purpose of this NG is to > bring about the perfect driving simulator. Oh oh ;) > Nobody here is going to > change anything, unless, of course, they decide to make one themselves Well okay, let me rephrase that. The purpose of this NG is to bring about the perfect driving simulator. Did you see that, it's the same then what you wrote above. Because the nature of the Usenet is to discuss and have a communication between different people. So there it's kinda hard to make a simulation on the Usenet. It's not a programing tool, you know <G> :) > but HT 2003 is a close enough approximation of a driving sim to be > discussed and debated on this here NG. But then again, is it worth it? -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://ymenard.cjb.net/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

redTed wrote: > HT 2003 is a close enough approximation of a driving sim to be > discussed and debated on this here NG. Problem is, debate is impossible when dissension is squashed. Which the original poster would like to see happen. Positive posts only. Some debate... -- Fester None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free. -- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe http://www.hermes-press.com/police_state.htm

Bottom line Bill, you won't see any leagues switching to NT2003. But I do agree with you on one thing, I sure can't wait for the IRL mod. :-) "Bill Bollinger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > "Christopher E. Johnson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > In article <[email hidden]>, > > [email hidden] says... > > > > I don't post much here, but the ridiculous assertions by Alan B. are > > really laughable if you've followed this group for even a minute. There > > are certain standards - like correctly modeling tracks, good driver AI, > > etc. at work. There are other non-Papyrus games that have been > > supported in this group over the years, so even that ridiculous > > assertion is wrong. Finally, notice the word "simulators" in the name > > of this group. If you want arcade-like or non-realistic driving fun > > (there are plenty games like that out there), then post somewhere else > > or follow one of the many groups where that is the subject. Here, it is > > all about how well games model real life racing. Thunder does a poorer > > job than the NASCAR Racing series does as a simulation. That's the long > > and short of it. > > > > > YAWN..... > > >