OT-Jackie Stewart Is a Wise Man

From itv-f1.com Jackie Stewart thinks too much fuss is being made over Ferrari's dominance of Formula 1. The three-times world champion believes that the Michael Schumacher-Ferrari combination, which won 11 out of 17 grand prix in 2002, has simply done a better job than the opposition and has reaped the rewards for its excellence. This is way it should be according to the BRDC chairman. In an interview with The Times, Stewart said: "Let's get real. They've just won for three years. Before that, they hadn't won for 21 years. This is sport - things don't always go the way you'd like them to. It would be nice if a different person won every race; it would be nice if different manufacturers won every year. But sport isn't fair. "The job of sport is not to share the honours out equally. The job of sport is to find the strongest, fastest, highest, longest, whatever. In 1971, I won six out of the first eight races. It was OK then, no one said a word other than to congratulate me. Today, the public, apparently, demands fair competition and that means everyone coming up to the line together does it? And a different driver winning every time?" ---- Stewart also had an ominous warning for the rest of the Formula 1 world. He expects more of the same from Ferrari and Schumacher next year. "I believe Schumacher is still on the way up," added Stewart. "If he's got five world titles to his name already, I could see him getting another three or four, maybe more. I would not be at all surprised if the nonsense over the past few months has made him even more determined to stay at the top for longer." David G Fisher

Steward's right. In the past 10 years a lot of fuss has been made over things which had been considered perfectly normal during the first 40 years of F1 history. I'm old enough to remember most of it (sigh) <g> Achim "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > From itv-f1.com > > Jackie Stewart thinks too much fuss is being made over Ferrari's dominance > of Formula 1. > The three-times world champion believes that the MichaelSchumacher-Ferrari > combination, which won 11 out of 17 grand prix in 2002, has simply done a > better job than the opposition and has reaped the rewards for its > excellence. This is way it should be according to the BRDC chairman. > > In an interview with The Times, Stewart said: "Let's get real. They'vejust > won for three years. Before that, they hadn't won for 21 years. This is > sport - things don't always go the way you'd like them to. It would benice > if a different person won every race; it would be nice if different > manufacturers won every year. But sport isn't fair. > > "The job of sport is not to share the honours out equally. The job ofsport > is to find the strongest, fastest, highest, longest, whatever. In 1971, I > won six out of the first eight races. It was OK then, no one said a word > other than to congratulate me. Today, the public, apparently, demands fair > competition and that means everyone coming up to the line together doesit? > And a different driver winning every time?" > > ---- > > Stewart also had an ominous warning for the rest of the Formula 1 world.He > expects more of the same from Ferrari and Schumacher next year. > > "I believe Schumacher is still on the way up," added Stewart. "If he's got > five world titles to his name already, I could see him getting anotherthree > or four, maybe more. I would not be at all surprised if the nonsense over > the past few months has made him even more determined to stay at the topfor > longer." > > David G Fisher > >

He's a wise man indeed. A couple of months ago I was driving through Scotland on one particularly sunny Sunday afternoon, and who should flash past me on the A72 in his Range Rover? Yep, non other than Jackie Stewart! I remember wondering why isn't he at home watching the GP. The answer is simple; he finds F1 as boring as I do and when out for a nice drive instead. Yours sneeringly GDA P.S. F1 is starting to disappear up it's own arsehole.

Joachim Trensz wrote: > > Steward's right. In the past 10 years a lot of fuss has been made over > things which had been considered perfectly normal during the first 40 years > of F1 history. I'm old enough to remember most of it (sigh) <g> Uh huh....:-) I can't believe that FIA is even worrying about the Ferrari dominance, aside from not liking MS himself and not wanting him to win, that bit doesn't bother me too much as I know that at some point Williams or McLaren will catch up, the thing that bores me stiff is the lack of on the track racing for position Forget the two red cars up front for a moment, they're doing their job better than anyone else and dominates, fair enough, but further down the field there's another 20 cars (more or less) divided into groups of cars with similar performance....and they're not racing each other for position on the track because in F1 that's neigh on impossible, "everyone" is just holding their position waiting for the pitstops....that's the bit that needs attention, I don't care if the fight for position is about 1st/2nd or 7th/8th as long as it's worth watching Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ "A man is only as old as the woman he feels" --Groucho Marx--

that's right Goy. I think the desire to level the playing field as much as possible is also a major reason why they aren't trying harder to ban driving aids (besides their saying it's difficult to police). Driving aids make less good drivers faster, thus keeping the field even closer together. Whether that causes more battles on the track (because the drivers are closer together) or less (because any existing differences are balanced out and hence no passing is possible) is another matter. But I remember cars and/or drivers being just as dominant as Ferrari was this year, not only in F1 but elsewhere, and it's always been considered as being perfectly normal. Which is also true for team orders, equally difficult to police but got prohibited anyway (IMO just a show for us, the audience, as it'll simply happen in a more subtle way now) - but team orders have always been part of the game, and I don't remember any fuss being made over it back then :-) Achim "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > Joachim Trensz wrote: > > > > Steward's right. In the past 10 years a lot of fuss has been made over > > things which had been considered perfectly normal during the first 40years

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> > of F1 history. I'm old enough to remember most of it (sigh) <g> > > Uh huh....:-) > > I can't believe that FIA is even worrying about the Ferrari dominance, > aside from not liking MS himself and not wanting him to win, that bit > doesn't bother me too much as I know that at some point Williams or > McLaren will catch up, the thing that bores me stiff is the lack of on > the track racing for position > > Forget the two red cars up front for a moment, they're doing their job > better than anyone else and dominates, fair enough, but further down the > field there's another 20 cars (more or less) divided into groups of cars > with similar performance....and they're not racing each other for > position on the track because in F1 that's neigh on impossible, > "everyone" is just holding their position waiting for the > pitstops....that's the bit that needs attention, I don't care if the > fight for position is about 1st/2nd or 7th/8th as long as it's worth > watching

Joachim Trensz wrote:

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> > I think the desire to level the playing field as much as possible is also a > major reason why they aren't trying harder to ban driving aids (besides > their saying it's difficult to police). Driving aids make less good drivers > faster, thus keeping the field even closer together. Whether that causes > more battles on the track (because the drivers are closer together) or less > (because any existing differences are balanced out and hence no passing is > possible) is another matter. > > But I remember cars and/or drivers being just as dominant as Ferrari was > this year, not only in F1 but elsewhere, and it's always been considered as > being perfectly normal. Which is also true for team orders, equally > difficult to police but got prohibited anyway (IMO just a show for us, the > audience, as it'll simply happen in a more subtle way now) - but team orders > have always been part of the game, and I don't remember any fuss being made > over it back then :-)

Exactly, and while I do have issues with Tem Orders when used as blatantly as Ferrari has this year, I too realise it's neigh on impossible to police them....and wasn't that the reason they let the driver aids back in, because it was impossible to police them.....hellooo ? What has made this season increasingly boring is Team Orders, in the past, when there was a dominant team, the two drivers in the team has for the most part been allowed to race each other, at least to a certain degree, but this year you knew that unless MS did a very poor qualifying (very unlikely) or messed up the start (it happens), he would win, but again, how do you police the difference between a Team Order and a periodic electronic glitch in RB's car ? :-) What worries me the most is the fact that nobody in the FIA/FOCA can see that this is ruining the sport as a sport for anyone but the most die hard fan, yes I've kept on watching it even though I said I'd stop after the Austrian fiasco (Hi David :-) even though I thought that was totally uncalled for even for a team that openly uses Team Orders, but there comes a point where I will rather spend those couple of hours on a Sunday rebuilding my beloved Opel Manta rather than watching the so called racing in F1 Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ "A man is only as old as the woman he feels" --Groucho Marx--

A good example of how do you police team orders came up in the NASCAR race this past Sunday too. I know it's not F1 but it seems relevant to me. Kurt Busch and teammate Mark Martin who's fighting for the championship) were running 1-2. Busch's crew chief radioed him and and "reminded" him Martin is fighting for a championship, and had the opportunity to pick up the bonus points for most laps led, which could go along way towards the title. Busch eased up and let Martin by, even though he was never explicity told to do so. He "made the dicision" on his own. Whats to stop the same thing from happening in F1? Goy Larsen wrote:

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> > Joachim Trensz wrote: > >>I think the desire to level the playing field as much as possible is also a >>major reason why they aren't trying harder to ban driving aids (besides >>their saying it's difficult to police). Driving aids make less good drivers >>faster, thus keeping the field even closer together. Whether that causes >>more battles on the track (because the drivers are closer together) or less >>(because any existing differences are balanced out and hence no passing is >>possible) is another matter. >> >>But I remember cars and/or drivers being just as dominant as Ferrari was >>this year, not only in F1 but elsewhere, and it's always been considered as >>being perfectly normal. Which is also true for team orders, equally >>difficult to police but got prohibited anyway (IMO just a show for us, the >>audience, as it'll simply happen in a more subtle way now) - but team orders >>have always been part of the game, and I don't remember any fuss being made >>over it back then :-) > > > Exactly, and while I do have issues with Tem Orders when used as > blatantly as Ferrari has this year, I too realise it's neigh on > impossible to police them....and wasn't that the reason they let the > driver aids back in, because it was impossible to police > them.....hellooo ? > > What has made this season increasingly boring is Team Orders, in the > past, when there was a dominant team, the two drivers in the team has > for the most part been allowed to race each other, at least to a certain > degree, but this year you knew that unless MS did a very poor qualifying > (very unlikely) or messed up the start (it happens), he would win, but > again, how do you police the difference between a Team Order and a > periodic electronic glitch in RB's car ? :-) > > What worries me the most is the fact that nobody in the FIA/FOCA can see > that this is ruining the sport as a sport for anyone but the most die > hard fan, yes I've kept on watching it even though I said I'd stop after > the Austrian fiasco (Hi David :-) even though I thought that was totally > uncalled for even for a team that openly uses Team Orders, but there > comes a point where I will rather spend those couple of hours on a > Sunday rebuilding my beloved Opel Manta rather than watching the so > called racing in F1 > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels" > --Groucho Marx--

Brad Larocque wrote:

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> > A good example of how do you police team orders came up in the NASCAR > race this past Sunday too. I know it's not F1 but it seems relevant to > me. Kurt Busch and teammate Mark Martin who's fighting for the > championship) were running 1-2. Busch's crew chief radioed him and and > "reminded" him Martin is fighting for a championship, and had the > opportunity to pick up the bonus points for most laps led, which could > go along way towards the title. Busch eased up and let Martin by, even > though he was never explicity told to do so. He "made the dicision" on > his own. Whats to stop the same thing from happening in F1?

You're mistaken, that will never happen NASCAR in a million years, shame on you for even suggesting such a thing.... Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ "A man is only as old as the woman he feels" --Groucho Marx--

"David G Fisher" wrote: > From itv-f1.com > > Jackie Stewart thinks too much fuss is being made over Ferrari's dominance > of Formula 1. I agree, David. I don't recall much fuss (certainly from us Brits!) when Mansell & Williams dominated in '92. Plus Mansell attempted to manfacture wins for Patrese in a rather blatant way (like coming to a near stop on one lap). Williams and Mclaren have taken turns to dominate for years. The romance in F1 was Ferrari being the underdog, and yearning for the glory years gone by when Ferrari could compete forthe championship. Now we have this we yearn for the romantic years of the fragile but beautiful Italian car up against the odds. Maybe the concept of Italian engineering beating German is just too much for the older members here to comprehend :-) I still find it ironic that my 10 year old Alfa had to jump start my wife's 1 year old VW and my father-in-law's brand new Jag !! Cheers Tony

> He's a wise man indeed. A couple of months ago I was driving through > Scotland on one particularly sunny Sunday afternoon, and who should > flash past me on the A72 in his Range Rover? Yep, non other than Jackie > Stewart! I remember wondering why isn't he at home watching the GP. The > answer is simple; he finds F1 as boring as I do and when out for a nice > drive instead. Right on, old timer!

Damien Smith wrote:

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> > > He's a wise man indeed. A couple of months ago I was driving through > > Scotland on one particularly sunny Sunday afternoon, and who should > > flash past me on the A72 in his Range Rover? Yep, non other than Jackie > > Stewart! I remember wondering why isn't he at home watching the GP. The > > answer is simple; he finds F1 as boring as I do and when out for a nice > > drive instead. > > Right on, old timer!

I'm 37!

"Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Damien Smith wrote: > > > > > He's a wise man indeed. A couple of months ago I was driving through > > > Scotland on one particularly sunny Sunday afternoon, and who should > > > flash past me on the A72 in his Range Rover? Yep, non other thanJackie > > > Stewart! I remember wondering why isn't he at home watching the GP.The > > > answer is simple; he finds F1 as boring as I do and when out for anice > > > drive instead. > > > > Right on, old timer! > > I'm 37! Like he said... ;-)

yeah but in those days did they APPLY the rules evenly to all teams??? did they bend it for one team and strictly apply it to another ??? Joachim Trensz <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:aqd8fb$8s14l$[email hidden]... > Steward's right. In the past 10 years a lot of fuss has been made over > things which had been considered perfectly normal during the first 40years

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> of F1 history. I'm old enough to remember most of it (sigh) <g> > > Achim > > > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > From itv-f1.com > > > > Jackie Stewart thinks too much fuss is being made over Ferrari's

dominance > > of Formula 1. > > The three-times world champion believes that the Michael > Schumacher-Ferrari > > combination, which won 11 out of 17 grand prix in 2002, has simply donea

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> > better job than the opposition and has reaped the rewards for its > > excellence. This is way it should be according to the BRDC chairman. > > > > In an interview with The Times, Stewart said: "Let's get real. They've > just > > won for three years. Before that, they hadn't won for 21 years. This is > > sport - things don't always go the way you'd like them to. It would be > nice > > if a different person won every race; it would be nice if different > > manufacturers won every year. But sport isn't fair. > > > > "The job of sport is not to share the honours out equally. The job of > sport > > is to find the strongest, fastest, highest, longest, whatever. In 1971,

I > > won six out of the first eight races. It was OK then, no one said a word > > other than to congratulate me. Today, the public, apparently, demandsfair

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> > competition and that means everyone coming up to the line together does > it? > > And a different driver winning every time?" > > > > ---- > > > > Stewart also had an ominous warning for the rest of the Formula 1 world. > He > > expects more of the same from Ferrari and Schumacher next year. > > > > "I believe Schumacher is still on the way up," added Stewart. "If he's

got > > five world titles to his name already, I could see him getting another > three > > or four, maybe more. I would not be at all surprised if the nonsenseover

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> > the past few months has made him even more determined to stay at the top > for > > longer." > > > > David G Fisher > > > > > >

On Thu, 07 Nov 2002 23:42:00 +0000, Gerry Aitken <[email hidden]> wrote: >I'm 37! I'm 25, and I still find 95-02 F1 boring. It's kinda sad, take away one broken steering shaft and it would possibly still be a good sport. Jason

Yep "Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > It's kinda sad, take away one broken steering shaft and it would > possibly still be a good sport. > > Jason

"Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Thu, 07 Nov 2002 23:42:00 +0000, Gerry Aitken > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >I'm 37! > > I'm 25, and I still find 95-02 F1 boring. > > It's kinda sad, take away one broken steering shaft and it would > possibly still be a good sport. > > Jason

Nah, he'd be retired by now anyway. John

There have always been people who thought their favourite team or driver was put at a disadvantage by the marshals, while a team or driver they didn't like had received an unfair advantage. Usually they were wrong, like nowadays, sometimes they were right, like nowadays. And in the end, like nowadays, it usually all evened out because everyone sometimes gained a bit, or lost a bit :-) Achim "john" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> yeah > > but in those days did they APPLY the rules evenly to all teams??? > did they bend it for one team and strictly apply it to another ??? > > > > Joachim Trensz <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:aqd8fb$8s14l$[email hidden]... > > Steward's right. In the past 10 years a lot of fuss has been made over > > things which had been considered perfectly normal during the first 40 > years > > of F1 history. I'm old enough to remember most of it (sigh) <g> > > > > Achim

On Wed, 6 Nov 2002 21:27:25 -0500, David G Fisher wrote: > From itv-f1.com > > "The job of sport is not to share the honours out equally. The job of sport > is to find the strongest, fastest, highest, longest, whatever. In 1971, I longest??? I wonder *what* sport he is referring to here... ;-D Uwe -- mail replies to Uwe at schuerkamp dot de ( yahoo address is spambox) Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/ Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E) GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

"Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> He's a wise man indeed. A couple of months ago I was driving through > Scotland on one particularly sunny Sunday afternoon, and who should > flash past me on the A72 in his Range Rover? Yep, non other than Jackie > Stewart! I remember wondering why isn't he at home watching the GP. The > answer is simple; he finds F1 as boring as I do and when out for a nice > drive instead. > > Yours sneeringly > > GDA

Awwww, that sounds lovely. I can just imagine you and your copy of GPL out together for a Sunday drive around the British countryside in your Big Wheel. > P.S. F1 is starting to disappear up it's own arsehole. Sure it is. Bill Gates is running out of money too. David G Fisher

On Thu, 7 Nov 2002 21:04:35 -0700, "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote: > Nah, he'd be retired by now anyway. I meant in terms of the cars using slicks and running on tracks that weren't designed for go karts. I still laugh everytime I think about the Eau Rouge chicane they tried that one year (was it 95?). Jason

On Fri, 8 Nov 2002 04:35:53 -0500, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote: >> P.S. F1 is starting to disappear up it's own arsehole. > >Sure it is. Bill Gates is running out of money too. F1 will disappear when the Concorde Agreement ends. I think most of the top manufacturers would probably agree with that, as well. Speaking of F1's popularity, I miss the mid to late 80's when there half a dozen new F1 games coming out every year and you couldn't walk into an arcade without finding at least Pole Position II and Final Lap. I probably ran more laps at the tracks in Final Lap than I have in all the ISI games combined, and it had better multiplayer (nothing like being able to smack someone when they knock you out of the way). Jason

Tony Rickard wrote > > The romance in F1 was Ferrari being the underdog, and yearning for theglory > years gone by when Ferrari could compete forthe championship. Now we havethis > we yearn for the romantic years of the fragile but beautiful Italian carup > against the odds. >Well said, I used to dream of the red car winning just once, when in reality I was watching for that first puff of smoke from the back that meant its laps were numbered. Davo

Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

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> Forget the two red cars up front for a moment, they're doing their job > better than anyone else and dominates, fair enough, but further down the > field there's another 20 cars (more or less) divided into groups of cars > with similar performance....and they're not racing each other for > position on the track because in F1 that's neigh on impossible, > "everyone" is just holding their position waiting for the > pitstops....that's the bit that needs attention, I don't care if the > fight for position is about 1st/2nd or 7th/8th as long as it's worth > watching

Actually, I subscribed to Sky's F1 Digital interactive broadcasts this season, and I couldn't wait for race day to come, as I was usually hanging around the 'Track B' and 'In Car' options. How many fantastic battles I witnessed between the Saubers/Renaults/BARs. I remember riding with Filipe Massa for most of the Imola race and thoroughly enjoying watching him and three other cars racing each other, watching their lines, seeing them get sideways out of Variante Alta, and just having fun racing. When I saw the ITV highlights, I hear Martin Brundle saying how boring it all was and how MS should get the 'Driver Of The Day' naff ITV award for spending the most amount of time on screen. I remember watching Villeneuve at Austria, where he overtook 10 cars during the race - that doesn't include the first lap, or pitstops. And that is an official count (I didn't sit there adding it up lol). That was amazing, and it almost cancelled out the Ferrari Fiasco for me. Every single time through the last turn he was right on the edge. I wasn't a huge Villeneuve fan until that race, but that one performace has swayed me quite a bit. The racing is there, and it is fantastic to watch, but if you are stuck with the local director pointing his camera at anything red all weekend, I can see why you might think that everybody follows each other until the pitstops. The only action seen up front this season involved Ferraris parking on the finish line to let each other by, and a couple of battles between Montoya and Raikkonen (that 6/7 corner fight at Hockenheim was amazing, especially from the incar views). One other thing, the Sky coverage of qualifying was the best I have ever seen. They always managed to pick up the guys on quick laps and ride them to the line, so you are never left wondering what is happening. Sometimes I would check the data channel and wait for the green times to show up, then check out that driver, but the Master channel had beaten me to it anyway. Of course, that is irrelevant next season due to the new qualifying rules the FIA have introduced, carefully calculated to ruin the whole spectacle of qualifying. Ok semi-rant over, guys.

On Thu, 07 Nov 2002 20:13:59 GMT, "Tony Rickard" <[email hidden]> wrote: > >Maybe the concept of Italian engineering beating German is just too much for the >older members here to comprehend :-) I still find it ironic that my 10 year old >Alfa had to jump start my wife's 1 year old VW and my father-in-law's brand new >Jag !! >Hmmmm... reminds me of my dad's 1970 VW bug pulling my uncle's 1967 (I think) Plymouth Fury II out of a sand dune several years ago... OTOH, my uncle could spin that Plymouth on two wheels right there in the sand... -- __________ ____---____ Marco Antonio Checa Funcke \_________D /-/---_----' Santiago de Surco, Lima, Peru _H__/_/ http://machf.tripod.com '-_____|( remove the "no_me_j." and "sons.of." parts before replying

[email hidden] (Jason Moyer) wrote in news:3dcb2972.9315585 @news.stargate.net:

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> On Thu, 07 Nov 2002 23:42:00 +0000, Gerry Aitken > <[email hidden]> wrote: > >>I'm 37! > > I'm 25, and I still find 95-02 F1 boring. > > It's kinda sad, take away one broken steering shaft and it would > possibly still be a good sport. > > Jason

What broken steering shaft? Or is this some alternative dimension Ayrton Senna that you're talking about? This was all revealed in a documentary on Senna's death. The steering column was designed to move around like that- they had video footage of it in testing at Williams, and spent a long time explaining the way it worked, and how it was not a factor in the accident. Senna's car crashed because it bottomed out on the corner due to a lower ride height, caused by cool tyres caused by following the pace car. So where's the broken steering shaft come into it? Or did you make that one up? cheers John

Yes, you really need to compare overtaking statistics from two eras before you can really say for sure if there is less passing in one than another. TV coverage can give a false impression about what's really happening on the track. That's just common sense. David G Fisher "Nick" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote in messagenews:<[email hidden]>...

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> > Forget the two red cars up front for a moment, they're doing their job > > better than anyone else and dominates, fair enough, but further down the > > field there's another 20 cars (more or less) divided into groups of cars > > with similar performance....and they're not racing each other for > > position on the track because in F1 that's neigh on impossible, > > "everyone" is just holding their position waiting for the > > pitstops....that's the bit that needs attention, I don't care if the > > fight for position is about 1st/2nd or 7th/8th as long as it's worth > > watching > > Actually, I subscribed to Sky's F1 Digital interactive broadcasts this > season, and I couldn't wait for race day to come, as I was usually > hanging around the 'Track B' and 'In Car' options. How many fantastic > battles I witnessed between the Saubers/Renaults/BARs. I remember > riding with Filipe Massa for most of the Imola race and thoroughly > enjoying watching him and three other cars racing each other, watching > their lines, seeing them get sideways out of Variante Alta, and just > having fun racing. When I saw the ITV highlights, I hear Martin > Brundle saying how boring it all was and how MS should get the 'Driver > Of The Day' naff ITV award for spending the most amount of time on > screen. > > I remember watching Villeneuve at Austria, where he overtook 10 cars > during the race - that doesn't include the first lap, or pitstops. And > that is an official count (I didn't sit there adding it up lol). That > was amazing, and it almost cancelled out the Ferrari Fiasco for me. > Every single time through the last turn he was right on the edge. I > wasn't a huge Villeneuve fan until that race, but that one performace > has swayed me quite a bit. > > The racing is there, and it is fantastic to watch, but if you are > stuck with the local director pointing his camera at anything red all > weekend, I can see why you might think that everybody follows each > other until the pitstops. The only action seen up front this season > involved Ferraris parking on the finish line to let each other by, and > a couple of battles between Montoya and Raikkonen (that 6/7 corner > fight at Hockenheim was amazing, especially from the incar views). > > One other thing, the Sky coverage of qualifying was the best I have > ever seen. They always managed to pick up the guys on quick laps and > ride them to the line, so you are never left wondering what is > happening. Sometimes I would check the data channel and wait for the > green times to show up, then check out that driver, but the Master > channel had beaten me to it anyway. Of course, that is irrelevant next > season due to the new qualifying rules the FIA have introduced, > carefully calculated to ruin the whole spectacle of qualifying. > > Ok semi-rant over, guys.

On 8 Nov 2002 21:10:44 GMT, JM <[email hidden]> wrote: >What broken steering shaft? Or is this some alternative dimension Ayrton >Senna that you're talking about? I'm talking about the broken steering column that's been reported in nearly every article written on Senna's death and has been reported by most sources as the cause of the accident. >This was all revealed in a documentary on Senna's death. The steering >column was designed to move around like that- they had video footage of it >in testing at Williams, and spent a long time explaining the way it worked, >and how it was not a factor in the accident. Senna's car crashed because >it bottomed out on the corner due to a lower ride height, caused by cool >tyres caused by following the pace car. Makes more sense, especially since the telemetry system was still recording steering inputs after the point at which the shaft supposedly broke. Jason

David G Fisher wrote: > > Yes, you really need to compare overtaking statistics from two eras before > you can really say for sure if there is less passing in one than another. TV > coverage can give a false impression about what's really happening on the > track. Hey, then there's nothing wrong with F1 then, just the TV coverage, in last years Hungarian GP there was ONE pass made on the track (Jean Alesi), yes I know Hungaro Ring is especially bad, almost as bad as Monaco, but the fact that we seem to be getting a fair amount of these modern " compact" tracks doesn't improve the situation when we know how dependent these cars are about the downforce Okay, so there's *some* passing going on F1, nice for those who are able to watch it, doesn't do people like myself much good is it, I can't get the digital package where I live, my cable co doesn't offer it and I'm not allowed to set up a private dish, so if this is Bernie's great scheme to lure me into buying the digital package, the joke is on him as I won't be around much next year, one less viewer for the local sponsors who are now footing the quite substantial bill for the local TV station to carry the race at all, shitty commentators but I guess that's all they can afford after paying premium for the broadcasting rights So for me personally the races *are* more boring than ever, it may be for a different reason than I first thought, but it's still boring...:-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

"Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Thu, 7 Nov 2002 21:04:35 -0700, "John Pancoast" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > Nah, he'd be retired by now anyway. > > I meant in terms of the cars using slicks and running on tracks that > weren't designed for go karts. > > I still laugh everytime I think about the Eau Rouge chicane they tried > that one year (was it 95?). > > Jason

Yeah, I know Jason, just being a smartass :) John

http://www.thesennafiles.com/s-files/start.html "JM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> [email hidden] (Jason Moyer) wrote in news:3dcb2972.9315585 > @news.stargate.net: > > > On Thu, 07 Nov 2002 23:42:00 +0000, Gerry Aitken > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > >>I'm 37! > > > > I'm 25, and I still find 95-02 F1 boring. > > > > It's kinda sad, take away one broken steering shaft and it would > > possibly still be a good sport. > > > > Jason > > What broken steering shaft? Or is this some alternative dimension Ayrton > Senna that you're talking about? > > This was all revealed in a documentary on Senna's death. The steering > column was designed to move around like that- they had video footage of it > in testing at Williams, and spent a long time explaining the way it

worked, > and how it was not a factor in the accident. Senna's car crashed because > it bottomed out on the corner due to a lower ride height, caused by cool > tyres caused by following the pace car. > > So where's the broken steering shaft come into it? Or did you make thatone > up? > > cheers > John

JM wrote:

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> > [email hidden] (Jason Moyer) wrote in news:3dcb2972.9315585 > @news.stargate.net: > > > On Thu, 07 Nov 2002 23:42:00 +0000, Gerry Aitken > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > >>I'm 37! > > > > I'm 25, and I still find 95-02 F1 boring. > > > > It's kinda sad, take away one broken steering shaft and it would > > possibly still be a good sport. > > > > Jason > > What broken steering shaft? Or is this some alternative dimension Ayrton > Senna that you're talking about? > > This was all revealed in a documentary on Senna's death. The steering > column was designed to move around like that- they had video footage of it > in testing at Williams, and spent a long time explaining the way it worked, > and how it was not a factor in the accident. Senna's car crashed because > it bottomed out on the corner due to a lower ride height, caused by cool > tyres caused by following the pace car. > > So where's the broken steering shaft come into it? Or did you make that one > up?

Of course he didn't make it up! At one time it was thought to be the reason for the accident. Alright, it's been superseded now, but not everyone is fully versed with the latest facts. Well, apart from know-it-alls like you!

Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > the fact that we seem to be getting a fair amount of these > modern " compact" tracks doesn't improve the situation when we know how > dependent these cars are about the downforce That's the problem. F1 is a very technical motorsport, and places like the Hungaroring are very challenging to drive quickly, so they provide a great test for the driver/car relationship. Unfortunately, that type of circuit is not suited to overtaking. A circuit which was designed with overtaking in mind would be very easy on the cars from a technical perspective. Compare Monza (stop-go, some good o/t spots, but only tests acceleration and braking performance of the cars) with Silverstone (fast, flowing racetrack, tests the fast/medium and slow cornering abilities of the cars, but not many places to set up a pass). A good mixture is Spa (sorry, WAS Spa). > so if this is Bernie's great > scheme to lure me into buying the digital package, the joke is on him as > I won't be around much next year I don't think he has much to do with it at all. The Digital coverage has many more cameras at the racetracks, but the local director can choose from a subset which allows him to view anybody he likes. That's why you often get to see the local hero circling in 18th instead of the leaders. I think it is a case of the local director thinking 'This is my chance with the 5 times world champion' so he keeps his cameras pointed firmly at the #1 car. The racing is there, he can view it (he can't get in car cameras most of the time, but he can use some trackside cameras), he just doesn't think people are interested in the battle for 8th. > So for me personally the races *are* more boring than ever, it may be > for a different reason than I first thought, but it's still boring...:-) Fair enough.

> Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote in messagenews:<[email hidden]>... > > So for me personally the races *are* more boring than ever, it may be > > for a different reason than I first thought, but it's still boring...:-) > Races ? :) John