My small "MS Rallisport Challenge" review.

Man, this game really looks great! Screenshots look amazing, even a few video clips I got look pretty good! So I loaded all 3 disks up. The intro video was really awesome, and showed how detailed the graphics are. There were a few scenes of cars flipping and stuff that looked a little "iffy" though. So I get to the options and go straight to the controller setup. Successfully setup the wheel for split-axis and enable Force Feedback (both of which I consider to be good signs of things to come). So I start my career out. The car setup is about as simple as CMR2 and Rally Trophy. A few options for each thing, such as gear ratio: small, medium, large. I can't complain in that department I guess. I haven't seen a Rally game with an F1200x style setup screen yet. As soon as the guy counted down from 3 and I started racing things started going totally downhill. It seemed like the car immediately started going pretty fast and didn't really accellerate after that. What I mean to say is that the sensation of speed is off, in a way that going slow seems fast, and going fast seems just a tad faster. Anyways, the "Force Feedback" is actually just a constant shaking. There is no feedback about the actual forces happening in the game. No cues about grip or lack of it. The sound is missing some cues as well. Braking is near impossible, because there's nothing telling you when you've lost grip. The game is getting uninstalled tomorrow, since I have to get to bed now. But I gotta say, the game looks amazing! Replays are great to watch and they really show how huge the map area is. It reminds me of Ghost Recon in a sense, like I'm driving around in a Ghost Recon map. Lighting looks great, so do the car models, and the bumpmapped textures really add to the photorealism. But, in my opinion, it's not driveable. One of the first Rally games I got into was "Rally Masters", and I have to say that the physics in that seem even better. Lastly, so I don't sound negative. I'm sure a lot of people would really like this game. It seems really fun to drive (although the AI is stupid as hell) and the scenery is amazing. Replays are entertaining and beautiful. If I had an XBox, I'd probably buy this game. Seems like it'd be a pretty decent console racing game for sure. Did I mention there's no in-car view?? Mike http://mikebeauchamp.com

Thanks Mike. Your mini-review pretty much sums up my experience with this game. Ain't the scenery great though!! Todd "Mike Beauchamp" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:PENy9.4587$[email hidden]... > Man, this game really looks great! Screenshots look amazing, even a few > video clips I got look pretty good! > > So I loaded all 3 disks up. The intro video was really awesome, and showed > how detailed the graphics are. There were a few scenes of cars flippingand > stuff that looked a little "iffy" though. > > So I get to the options and go straight to the controller setup. > Successfully setup the wheel for split-axis and enable Force Feedback(both > of which I consider to be good signs of things to come). > > So I start my career out. The car setup is about as simple as CMR2 andRally

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> Trophy. A few options for each thing, such as gear ratio: small, medium, > large. I can't complain in that department I guess. I haven't seen a Rally > game with an F1200x style setup screen yet. > > As soon as the guy counted down from 3 and I started racing things started > going totally downhill. It seemed like the car immediately started going > pretty fast and didn't really accellerate after that. What I mean to say

is > that the sensation of speed is off, in a way that going slow seems fast,and > going fast seems just a tad faster. > > Anyways, the "Force Feedback" is actually just a constant shaking. Thereis > no feedback about the actual forces happening in the game. No cues about > grip or lack of it. > > The sound is missing some cues as well. Braking is near impossible,because > there's nothing telling you when you've lost grip. > > The game is getting uninstalled tomorrow, since I have to get to bed now. > > But I gotta say, the game looks amazing! Replays are great to watch andthey

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> really show how huge the map area is. It reminds me of Ghost Recon in a > sense, like I'm driving around in a Ghost Recon map. Lighting looks great, > so do the car models, and the bumpmapped textures really add to the > photorealism. > > But, in my opinion, it's not driveable. One of the first Rally games I got > into was "Rally Masters", and I have to say that the physics in that seem > even better. > > Lastly, so I don't sound negative. I'm sure a lot of people would really > like this game. It seems really fun to drive (although the AI is stupid as > hell) and the scenery is amazing. Replays are entertaining and beautiful.

If

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> I had an XBox, I'd probably buy this game. Seems like it'd be a pretty > decent console racing game for sure. > > Did I mention there's no in-car view?? > > Mike > http://mikebeauchamp.com > >

Can your car leave the road or are there invisible walls? Judging by the screenshots it looks like you could drive off-road. I'd imagine you're still basically limited to the general area of the road though. -Dan

Don't know about the PC version, but in the Xbox version if you get too far from the road you get "reset" back to the road, several car lengths back from where you went off. "Daniel L. Bateman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Can your car leave the road or are there invisible walls? Judging by > the screenshots it looks like you could drive off-road. I'd imagine > you're still basically limited to the general area of the road though. > > -Dan

Exact same thign with the PC version. There's no Invisible Walls, and you COULD go driving really far off. But in some sections, there seems to be an automatic "reset" line.. MIke http://mikebeauchamp.com "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:aqh1aa$9uh9i$[email hidden]...

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> Don't know about the PC version, but in the Xbox version if you get too > far from the road you get "reset" back to the road, several car lengths > back from where you went off. > > "Daniel L. Bateman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Can your car leave the road or are there invisible walls? Judging by > > the screenshots it looks like you could drive off-road. I'd imagine > > you're still basically limited to the general area of the road though. > > > > -Dan >

Oh yeah.. the game looks top notch, and runs really well!! If only the guys from Live For Speed or something couldnt' buy-out this game for a few hundred dollars, and add their own physics engine into it. Mike http://mikebeauchamp.com "JTBurn" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Thanks Mike. Your mini-review pretty much sums up my experience with this > game. Ain't the scenery great though!! > > Todd > > "Mike Beauchamp" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:PENy9.4587$[email hidden]... > > Man, this game really looks great! Screenshots look amazing, even a few > > video clips I got look pretty good! > > > > So I loaded all 3 disks up. The intro video was really awesome, and

showed

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> > how detailed the graphics are. There were a few scenes of cars flipping > and > > stuff that looked a little "iffy" though. > > > > So I get to the options and go straight to the controller setup. > > Successfully setup the wheel for split-axis and enable Force Feedback > (both > > of which I consider to be good signs of things to come). > > > > So I start my career out. The car setup is about as simple as CMR2 and > Rally > > Trophy. A few options for each thing, such as gear ratio: small, medium, > > large. I can't complain in that department I guess. I haven't seen a

Rally > > game with an F1200x style setup screen yet. > > > > As soon as the guy counted down from 3 and I started racing thingsstarted

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> > going totally downhill. It seemed like the car immediately started going > > pretty fast and didn't really accellerate after that. What I mean to say > is > > that the sensation of speed is off, in a way that going slow seems fast, > and > > going fast seems just a tad faster. > > > > Anyways, the "Force Feedback" is actually just a constant shaking. There > is > > no feedback about the actual forces happening in the game. No cues about > > grip or lack of it. > > > > The sound is missing some cues as well. Braking is near impossible, > because > > there's nothing telling you when you've lost grip. > > > > The game is getting uninstalled tomorrow, since I have to get to bed

now. > > > > But I gotta say, the game looks amazing! Replays are great to watch and > they > > really show how huge the map area is. It reminds me of Ghost Recon in a > > sense, like I'm driving around in a Ghost Recon map. Lighting looksgreat, > > so do the car models, and the bumpmapped textures really add to the > > photorealism. > > > > But, in my opinion, it's not driveable. One of the first Rally games Igot > > into was "Rally Masters", and I have to say that the physics in thatseem > > even better. > > > > Lastly, so I don't sound negative. I'm sure a lot of people would really > > like this game. It seems really fun to drive (although the AI is stupidas > > hell) and the scenery is amazing. Replays are entertaining andbeautiful.

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> If > > I had an XBox, I'd probably buy this game. Seems like it'd be a pretty > > decent console racing game for sure. > > > > Did I mention there's no in-car view?? > > > > Mike > > http://mikebeauchamp.com > > > > > >

That would be sweet! "Mike Beauchamp" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:jwXy9.8248$[email hidden]... > Oh yeah.. the game looks top notch, and runs really well!! > > If only the guys from Live For Speed or something couldnt' buy-out thisgame

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> for a few hundred dollars, and add their own physics engine into it. > > Mike > http://mikebeauchamp.com > > > "JTBurn" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Thanks Mike. Your mini-review pretty much sums up my experience with

this

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> > game. Ain't the scenery great though!! > > > > Todd > > > > "Mike Beauchamp" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:PENy9.4587$[email hidden]... > > > Man, this game really looks great! Screenshots look amazing, even a

few > > > video clips I got look pretty good! > > > > > > So I loaded all 3 disks up. The intro video was really awesome, and > showed > > > how detailed the graphics are. There were a few scenes of carsflipping

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> > and > > > stuff that looked a little "iffy" though. > > > > > > So I get to the options and go straight to the controller setup. > > > Successfully setup the wheel for split-axis and enable Force Feedback > > (both > > > of which I consider to be good signs of things to come). > > > > > > So I start my career out. The car setup is about as simple as CMR2 and > > Rally > > > Trophy. A few options for each thing, such as gear ratio: small,

medium,

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> > > large. I can't complain in that department I guess. I haven't seen a > Rally > > > game with an F1200x style setup screen yet. > > > > > > As soon as the guy counted down from 3 and I started racing things > started > > > going totally downhill. It seemed like the car immediately started

going > > > pretty fast and didn't really accellerate after that. What I mean tosay > > is > > > that the sensation of speed is off, in a way that going slow seemsfast, > > and > > > going fast seems just a tad faster. > > > > > > Anyways, the "Force Feedback" is actually just a constant shaking.There > > is > > > no feedback about the actual forces happening in the game. No cuesabout

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> > > grip or lack of it. > > > > > > The sound is missing some cues as well. Braking is near impossible, > > because > > > there's nothing telling you when you've lost grip. > > > > > > The game is getting uninstalled tomorrow, since I have to get to bed > now. > > > > > > But I gotta say, the game looks amazing! Replays are great to watch

and > > they > > > really show how huge the map area is. It reminds me of Ghost Recon ina

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> > > sense, like I'm driving around in a Ghost Recon map. Lighting looks > great, > > > so do the car models, and the bumpmapped textures really add to the > > > photorealism. > > > > > > But, in my opinion, it's not driveable. One of the first Rally games I > got > > > into was "Rally Masters", and I have to say that the physics in that > seem > > > even better. > > > > > > Lastly, so I don't sound negative. I'm sure a lot of people would

really > > > like this game. It seems really fun to drive (although the AI isstupid

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> as > > > hell) and the scenery is amazing. Replays are entertaining and > beautiful. > > If > > > I had an XBox, I'd probably buy this game. Seems like it'd be a pretty > > > decent console racing game for sure. > > > > > > Did I mention there's no in-car view?? > > > > > > Mike > > > http://mikebeauchamp.com > > > > > > > > > > > >

No In-Car view ? You know, something I have feared is starting to materialize. Since the XBox racers generally don't have in-car, games that are developed for that first and then ported (though that might not be the best word in this case since the XBox is basically an under-powered PC) to the PC will inherit least-common-denominator features and realism. Damn. The "consoles will take over PC gaming" might be a self-fullfilling prophecy if this crap keeps up :( -Larry "Mike Beauchamp" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:PENy9.4587$[email hidden]... > Man, this game really looks great! Screenshots look amazing, even a few > video clips I got look pretty good! > > So I loaded all 3 disks up. The intro video was really awesome, and showed > how detailed the graphics are. There were a few scenes of cars flippingand > stuff that looked a little "iffy" though. > > So I get to the options and go straight to the controller setup. > Successfully setup the wheel for split-axis and enable Force Feedback(both > of which I consider to be good signs of things to come). > > So I start my career out. The car setup is about as simple as CMR2 andRally

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> Trophy. A few options for each thing, such as gear ratio: small, medium, > large. I can't complain in that department I guess. I haven't seen a Rally > game with an F1200x style setup screen yet. > > As soon as the guy counted down from 3 and I started racing things started > going totally downhill. It seemed like the car immediately started going > pretty fast and didn't really accellerate after that. What I mean to say

is > that the sensation of speed is off, in a way that going slow seems fast,and > going fast seems just a tad faster. > > Anyways, the "Force Feedback" is actually just a constant shaking. Thereis > no feedback about the actual forces happening in the game. No cues about > grip or lack of it. > > The sound is missing some cues as well. Braking is near impossible,because > there's nothing telling you when you've lost grip. > > The game is getting uninstalled tomorrow, since I have to get to bed now. > > But I gotta say, the game looks amazing! Replays are great to watch andthey

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> really show how huge the map area is. It reminds me of Ghost Recon in a > sense, like I'm driving around in a Ghost Recon map. Lighting looks great, > so do the car models, and the bumpmapped textures really add to the > photorealism. > > But, in my opinion, it's not driveable. One of the first Rally games I got > into was "Rally Masters", and I have to say that the physics in that seem > even better. > > Lastly, so I don't sound negative. I'm sure a lot of people would really > like this game. It seems really fun to drive (although the AI is stupid as > hell) and the scenery is amazing. Replays are entertaining and beautiful.

If

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> I had an XBox, I'd probably buy this game. Seems like it'd be a pretty > decent console racing game for sure. > > Did I mention there's no in-car view?? > > Mike > http://mikebeauchamp.com > >

"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<%Ycz9.25179$[email hidden]>...

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> No In-Car view ? > > You know, something I have feared is starting to materialize. Since the > XBox racers generally don't have in-car, games that are developed for that > first and then ported (though that might not be the best word in this case > since the XBox is basically an under-powered PC) to the PC will inherit > least-common-denominator features and realism. > > Damn. The "consoles will take over PC gaming" might be a self-fullfilling > prophecy if this crap keeps up :( >

I am not a hardcore sim-player, but I don't think lacking an in-car view makes or breaks a game/sim for me. In some cases, an in-car view can just be distracting, too (Sports Car GT, maybe?). And if you have a dozen or more cars in a game, getting a unique 3D view for every car's cockpit is just that much more work. Actually I think a hood view would be good enough, or better yet let you position the camera wherever you want (I think just behind the hood would be ideal). I'd much rather see things like good physics in the game, and Rallisport Challenge sounds like from reviews it would be disappointing. I haven't seen a demo yet to confirm it, though, but it sounds toned down from Rally Masters. I don't understand why Microsoft (or any other publisher) thinks a straight port of an arcade racer is going to sell on a PC- if we were that excited about the games, we would have bought the console already. It's not like there's any shortage of races games on the PC with arcade physics (V-Rally, 4x4 Evo). They should have added a hardcore mode for the PC- just my opinion (hey, they still could by a patch, then I might buy it...).

tested the game for 2 hours and i�m really impressed by the fantastic graphics, but the worst thing in this game (maybe until the first patch is released..???) is the really bad ffb in this game, it�s only one constant rattle and shaking, no forces anyway...of course it�s not such a "pure" sim, more likely arcade, but u could have a lotta fun with this game, when there would be much stronger ffb-effects...

[email hidden] (IronSteve) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > tested the game for 2 hours and i�m really impressed by the fantastic > graphics, but the worst thing in this game (maybe until the first > patch is released..???) is the really bad ffb in this game, it�s only > one constant rattle and shaking, no forces anyway...of course it�s not > such a "pure" sim, more likely arcade, but u could have a lotta fun > with this game, when there would be much stronger ffb-effects... I read in reviews the cars got more air-time than real cars. Just sounds too much like 4x4 EVO's lunar physics. That was frustrating enough because you spent so much time flying around and not gripping the road.

[email hidden] (e f) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

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> [email hidden] (IronSteve) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > > tested the game for 2 hours and i�m really impressed by the fantastic > > graphics, but the worst thing in this game (maybe until the first > > patch is released..???) is the really bad ffb in this game, it�s only > > one constant rattle and shaking, no forces anyway...of course it�s not > > such a "pure" sim, more likely arcade, but u could have a lotta fun > > with this game, when there would be much stronger ffb-effects... > > I read in reviews the cars got more air-time than real cars. Just > sounds too much like 4x4 EVO's lunar physics. That was frustrating > enough because you spent so much time flying around and not gripping > the road.

as i said before it�s more like a arcade racer, no sim like cmr2...but you�re havin fun with it, except the steering with ffb....come on guys at dice....give us a patch...only the ffb effects of your great STCC2 game!

I don't drive on hoods, roofs or front bumpers. I want a windshield in front of me and a dash. Call we weird :) -Larry "e f" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in messagenews:<%Ycz9.25179$[email hidden]>... > > No In-Car view ? > > > > You know, something I have feared is starting to materialize. Since the > > XBox racers generally don't have in-car, games that are developed forthat > > first and then ported (though that might not be the best word in thiscase > > since the XBox is basically an under-powered PC) to the PC will inherit > > least-common-denominator features and realism. > > > > Damn. The "consoles will take over PC gaming" might be aself-fullfilling

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> > prophecy if this crap keeps up :( > > > > I am not a hardcore sim-player, but I don't think lacking an in-car > view makes or breaks a game/sim for me. In some cases, an in-car view > can just be distracting, too (Sports Car GT, maybe?). And if you have > a dozen or more cars in a game, getting a unique 3D view for every > car's cockpit is just that much more work. Actually I think a hood > view would be good enough, or better yet let you position the camera > wherever you want (I think just behind the hood would be ideal). > > I'd much rather see things like good physics in the game, and > Rallisport Challenge sounds like from reviews it would be > disappointing. I haven't seen a demo yet to confirm it, though, but > it sounds toned down from Rally Masters. I don't understand why > Microsoft (or any other publisher) thinks a straight port of an arcade > racer is going to sell on a PC- if we were that excited about the > games, we would have bought the console already. It's not like > there's any shortage of races games on the PC with arcade physics > (V-Rally, 4x4 Evo). They should have added a hardcore mode for the > PC- just my opinion (hey, they still could by a patch, then I might > buy it...).

[email hidden] (IronSteve) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

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> [email hidden] (e f) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > > [email hidden] (IronSteve) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > > > tested the game for 2 hours and i�m really impressed by the fantastic > > > graphics, but the worst thing in this game (maybe until the first > > > patch is released..???) is the really bad ffb in this game, it�s only > > > one constant rattle and shaking, no forces anyway...of course it�s not > > > such a "pure" sim, more likely arcade, but u could have a lotta fun > > > with this game, when there would be much stronger ffb-effects... > > > > I read in reviews the cars got more air-time than real cars. Just > > sounds too much like 4x4 EVO's lunar physics. That was frustrating > > enough because you spent so much time flying around and not gripping > > the road. > > as i said before it�s more like a arcade racer, no sim like cmr2...but > you�re havin fun with it, except the steering with ffb....come on guys > at dice....give us a patch...only the ffb effects of your great STCC2 > game!

I must say that my first reaction to this game was that it was impossible to drive, no speed, odd brakes. But after getting some new more powerful cars available it seemed a LOT better. I now, that I have unlocked all cars and tracks and driven them all I must say that this game ROCKS!! Awesome driving! Better than Rally Masters and CMR. I do have a couple of complaints though. 1. Really bad Force Feedback. My act-labs wheel does not even center! Just shaking. I have to set it to default always on spring effect in the wheel driver settings to get the wheel to auto center. 2. Nvidia stereo 3D for 3D glasses does not work in this game. I live for 3D sim racing! :) 3. No way of driving races outside career mode that includes multiple stages in a row. So, a patch would be really nice to fix these issues. But it still is a great fun rally game to play. I would say, the best so far, better than Rally Masters, Rally Trophy and CMR2 in my opinion. /Linus

On 13 Nov 2002 13:11:15 -0800, [email hidden] (Linus Girdland) wrote: >Awesome driving! Better than Rally Masters I respectfully disagree. There is NO comparison in the nice physics of Rally Masters and the arcade-ness of Rallisport Challenge. None at all. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy arcade-ish racers and probably spend more time recently on them than true sims, but Rallisport isn't in the same league as Rally Masters in the 'driving' department. IMHO of course... :)

rrevved <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

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> On 13 Nov 2002 13:11:15 -0800, [email hidden] (Linus Girdland) wrote: > > >Awesome driving! Better than Rally Masters > > I respectfully disagree. There is NO comparison > in the nice physics of Rally Masters and the arcade-ness > of Rallisport Challenge. None at all. > > Don't get me wrong, I enjoy arcade-ish racers and probably > spend more time recently on them than true sims, but Rallisport > isn't in the same league as Rally Masters in the 'driving' > department. > > IMHO of course... :)

Have you tried driving with the more powerful cars? Like the Audio Quattro S1? You really have to work your wheel and brake through the corners. Even the braking in front of a sharp corner has to be controlled with the wheel to keep your car straight and line up for the entry for the corner. Also, using the 4wd by applying throttle through the corners is very important in order to successfully drive the car through a turn. And this was not my first impression of the game. Only after spending plenty of hours and advancing to the classic cars did I change my mind about it. This game has really grown on me. And I really do think it is in the same league as Rally Masters which has been my no.1 Rally Sim since it was released all the way up until now that I have finished Rallisport Challenge. If the bugs and stuff are fixed, I beleive Rallisport Challenge is the new no.1 rally sim for the PC, replacing Rally Masters. /Linus

[email hidden] (IronSteve) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > as i said before it�s more like a arcade racer, no sim like cmr2...but > you�re havin fun with it, except the steering with ffb....come on guys > at dice....give us a patch...only the ffb effects of your great STCC2 > game! What's STCC2? I want to know because I really like Digital Illusions games (including those Pinball ones they did way back). I didn't think Colin McRae Rally was a real hardcore sim. The physics may have been good (but not as tricky and Rally Masters), but look at the courses, one big powerslide after another. The tracks seem to all melt together, whereas Rally Masters tracks all seem to have more personality. And the roads are wider than most near where I live (in the US- there are a few smaller highways and dirt roads 'round here). Still, if I could ever find it in a bargain bin, I'd definitely pick it up. I wish I could get hold of Rally Trophy. I ordered it half a month ago, and its status has changed to back-order. I have played the demo to death. Getting Rally games in the US is hard, nobody seems to sell them at stores. Maybe they should try remarketting them as "off road sims" or somesuch, because most of the off-road games we get; "4X4 Evo" are mediocre arcade games (Motocross Madness and Monster Truck Madness seem to be the only halfway decent ones). In Master Rallye, it even has a few recognizeable SUVS (Chevy Blazer, Nissan, for instance).

[email hidden] (IronSteve) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > > as i said before it�s more like a arcade racer, no sim like cmr2...but > you�re havin fun with it, except the steering with ffb....come on guys > at dice....give us a patch...only the ffb effects of your great STCC2 > game! I took the plunge and bought Rallisport yesterday. I'm not disappointed, the physics are good enough for me, and the gameplay is good. I wish Microsoft would support physics/car/track mods, though- with some mods this could be a great game. Actually, it reminds me (in the handling) alot like Colin McRae 2. The graphics just "0wnZ" CMR2, though, and the handling just doesn't seem that much different. And Colin McRae just didn't seem that sim like to me, more like "Gran Turismo" realism- good but not exacting. For the life of me I couldn't get a car to spin in CMR2. They are both easier than Rally Masters, you can toss them about more, less twitchy, and the roads are wider and you seem to get up to speed much faster. If anything the courses in Rallisport seem a bit less "into the next powerslide", and it seems to have longer stretches of road. Now the only downside- this game stammers like crazy with my Radeon 9700. Must be that "Powered by NVidia" stuff. Agghhhh....

On 13 Nov 2002 13:11:15 -0800, [email hidden] (Linus Girdland) wrote:

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>I must say that my first reaction to this game was that it was >impossible to drive, no speed, odd brakes. But after getting some new >more powerful cars available it seemed a LOT better. I now, that I >have unlocked all cars and tracks and driven them all I must say that >this game ROCKS!! > >Awesome driving! Better than Rally Masters and CMR.

I agree. Part of the problem I had with the early cars was that they all seem prone to incredible understeer, especially on sand and mud. I thought I was going to rip the wheel off my desk on the mud stages. Thankfully my favorite easy car is the Peugot 206 which handles like a champ. =) I think it's by far better than CMR2 and its "pivot around a central axis" physics. CMR3 looks like more of the same based on the preview videos. Rally Masters and Rallisport Challenge are the only rally sims that seem to attempt to differentiate between different surfaces in ways not simply involving grip (most games seem to use the same type of surface with lower grip, without accounting for the differences in drag). The sand and especially the mud stages are really fun and a great challenge with the way the car tends to dig in and not want to turn. I'm not going to argue that it's realistic, and the cars should probably be slightly heavier (then again, they feel plenty heavy on the Pacific stages), but it's certainly a lot of fun. The hill climb stages are amazingly fun and I can't think of anything like them in any other rally game. I've killed my virtual self many a time on those summit courses. =) I can't speak for the FFB, and it really sucks if it's bad enough to ruin the game for everyone. It's great with a non-FFB wheel so I hope the FFB effects are patched. I'm holding final judgement on RT until I get to try the user-made physics patch, but right now I'd say that none of them are particularly realistic. I'd definitely give nods to RSC and Mobil 1 RC for the fun factor, however. Jason

On Wed, 13 Nov 2002 18:11:57 GMT, "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote: >I don't drive on hoods, roofs or front bumpers. I want a windshield in front >of me and a dash. Do you also require a wheel drawn on screen too? I dunno, I'm happy with the hood cam in RSC, and I've been bouncing back and forth a lot between it and GPL without having to readjust much between either. With RSC I just tend to view the monitor as the windshield and the dashes as a compromise since they can't be mounted behind my wheel where they should be. Yes, a cockpit view would be great, particularly without an on-screen steering wheel, but what can you do... Still waiting for a rally game with a cockpit I can use. Jason

I quite like hood cam views in rally games ie. where you can see the hood in front of you but without the cockpit -- Ian P <email invalid due to spam> "Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Wed, 13 Nov 2002 18:11:57 GMT, "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >I don't drive on hoods, roofs or front bumpers. I want a windshield in front > >of me and a dash. > > Do you also require a wheel drawn on screen too? > > I dunno, I'm happy with the hood cam in RSC, and I've been bouncing > back and forth a lot between it and GPL without having to readjust > much between either. With RSC I just tend to view the monitor as the > windshield and the dashes as a compromise since they can't be mounted > behind my wheel where they should be. Yes, a cockpit view would be > great, particularly without an on-screen steering wheel, but what can > you do... Still waiting for a rally game with a cockpit I can use. > > Jason

On Sun, 17 Nov 2002 16:57:36 -0000, "Ian P" <[email hidden]> wrote: >I quite like hood cam views in rally games ie. where you can see the hood in >front of you but without the cockpit I'd prefer a good cockpit, but I find an on-screen wheel distracting to the point where I end up using the hood cam. Mobil 1 being the only real exception since the wheel didn't move much unless you used undriveable sensitivity settings. Jason

On Mon, 18 Nov 2002 06:41:13 -0500, Dastardly Dan <[email hidden]> wrote: >I'm beginning to agree with you on cockpits. I've always prefered a >cockpit as I thought it added to the realsim. But when I think about >driving my own real car my eyes are focused ahead on the road and one >doesn't really notice the dash or wheel in front of you. Maybe the >standard car cockpit design needs to be rethought so that it is not so >obtrusive and is more peripheral. Something inbetween most cockpit and nose cams would be ideal for me, I think. It would take time to get used to it, but I think a cockpit cam without a drawn steering wheel and with the view shifted forward so that the guages are barely visible at the bottom of the screen could be nice. OTOH, one of the benefits of a Papy-style cockpit is the aid to depth perception, being able to more easily guage where the body of the car is. I think most cockpit cams are designed with the idea that what you see on the screen is what a driver sees from a typical head position. Since no one drives with their face pressed against the screen, it might actually give a better driving feel if you could adjust the view in the game to match how far you have the monitor from your head when driving. The downside is that you're going to have limited visibility unless you use a ridiculously wide FOV or have 3 monitors. A cockpit cam calibration tool that used 0 as the reference for the sim driver's head and let you move the cam forward/backward based on where you sit in relation to your monitor could be cool. I may have to try this out in F1 2002 now to see if I can get a decent result. Jason

"Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (12 lines)

> I think most cockpit cams are designed with the idea that what you see > on the screen is what a driver sees from a typical head position. > Since no one drives with their face pressed against the screen, it > might actually give a better driving feel if you could adjust the view > in the game to match how far you have the monitor from your head when > driving. The downside is that you're going to have limited visibility > unless you use a ridiculously wide FOV or have 3 monitors. A cockpit > cam calibration tool that used 0 as the reference for the sim driver's > head and let you move the cam forward/backward based on where you sit > in relation to your monitor could be cool. I may have to try this out > in F1 2002 now to see if I can get a decent result. >

What we need is a pair of 3D-goggles and a headtracker, so that the view would shift when you turn your head or look up/down ! Imaging beeing able to look into a corner or at the mirrors through the side windows ! Would be fantastic for at WW1 dogfigt also :-) /JS