Help with GPL Kyalami

My goal is to get a sub 1:20.50, but my best so far is a 1:20.75, and I seem to vary betwen low 1:21's to 1:22's. Looking for help or advice. I using a setup very similar to the GH1 setup for Kyalami. I've been messing with this for about 3 days and seem to have hit a wall. It's a struggle just to get low 1:21's. Here is a link to a zip of my setup, the fast lap replay, and a typical practice run (where best lap is 1:21.29). http://jeffareid.net/gpl/jrkl.zip

Jeff Reid wrote: > My goal is to get a sub 1:20.50, but my best so far is a 1:20.75, and I seem to vary betwen low 1:21's to 1:22's. > Looking for help or advice. I using a setup very similar to the GH1 setup for Kyalami. I've been messing with this for > about 3 days and seem to have hit a wall. It's a struggle just to get low 1:21's. You don't say which car (I haven't seen the replay) The biggest gain I ever got in GPL was after several years of league racing to take a year or so out doing FDs and F2s. On return to F1s I took a chunk of time out of my PBs having spent ages flogging away at them before. My Ferrari times went from low 21s to high 19s at Kyalami running the same setup. I couldn't tell you what I did differently though. I think it is possible that once you have become really familiar with a track it is hard to unlearn it and do anything different. After driving the lower powered cars you have to relearn braking, turn in and gear change points and when you can get back on full throttle. For it to work I guess it needs to become second nature in the other formulae first. Not the quickest solution though! Cheers Tony

> You don't say which car (I haven't seen the replay) Lotus. > The biggest gain I ever got in GPL was after several years of league Ok, so maybe after several years, I'll get this. Was hoping for something shorter.

Lotus. Ok, so maybe after several years, I'll get this. Was hoping for something shorter.

In article <qZJTg.2404$ef2.1449@fed1read09>, [email hidden] says...

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> My goal is to get a sub 1:20.50, but my best so far is a 1:20.75, and I seem to vary betwen low 1:21's to 1:22's. > Looking for help or advice. I using a setup very similar to the GH1 setup for Kyalami. I've been messing with this for > about 3 days and seem to have hit a wall. It's a struggle just to get low 1:21's. > > Here is a link to a zip of my setup, the fast lap replay, and a typical practice run (where best lap is 1:21.29). > > http://jeffareid.net/gpl/jrkl.zip > >

Have you had a look at some of the hotlap replays (if they're still around). Plus, there used to be a program (forget its name) that used to allow you to compare 2 or more saved laps together. This could then show you where you're losing the most time compared to say an alien hotlap, or even a different one of your own. It's surprising sometimes how an overall slower lap can have been faster in some corners than your best lap. -- Pete Ives Remove All_stRESS before sending me an email

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> Have you had a look at some of the hotlap replays (if they're still > around). Plus, there used to be a program (forget its name) that used > to allow you to compare 2 or more saved laps together. This could then > show you where you're losing the most time compared to say an alien > hotlap, or even a different one of your own. It's surprising sometimes > how an overall slower lap can have been faster in some corners than your > best lap.

I'm using replay analyzer, comparing my laps and the reference lap. My main problem is the last 35% of the lap. In the replay of the 1:20.751 lap, I get a good (for me) 25% and 50% time, mostly because at the end of the straight, I get the next two rights good, especially the 2nd one, where I brake late and hard right into a good line and speed for that second right. Then I get a good run on the next left where you use all of the track. After dozens of laps, I'm getting better on the last part of the track, so it's just a case of combining the best parts of various laps into a single lap, or "miracle happens here". As I learn the trak, I'm braking further into the the corner entry, but I don't really trail brake, instead I just use the coast side differential, sometimes downshifting to control entry speeed, then upshifting to exit.

Jeff Reid wrote: >> The biggest gain I ever got in GPL was after several years of league > > Ok, so maybe after several years, I'll get this. Was hoping for something > shorter. The point being the gain was made after several years of F1 by switching to FD/F2 and then back. *Immediately* after switching back I was over 1 sec faster. It is the switch rather than the several years that is important :) Cheers Tony

> The point being the gain was made after several years of F1 by switching to FD/F2 and then back. *Immediately* after > switching back I was over 1 sec faster. It is the switch rather than the several years that is important :) Ok, I never tried those cars. I'm starting to get more consistent in getting low 1:21's, and if I can just put the best parts of different laps into a single lap, I'll get there. For me improving my time at Nurburg Ring (Nordschleife) was a bit easier, because I've used that track on so many other games, and it only took a few days to join the 500 second club, with a 8:15.32, which accounts for about 1/2 of my negative GPL Rank of -12.

Making some progress, a 1:20.90, then a 1:20.79, with a more conservative approach, trying to get the apexes, especially the last 30% of the track. May get a sub 1:20.50 within a week, depending on how much time I have.

Lowering the acc ramp and raising the decelleration ramp makes you go faster. Takes a little getting used to but lap times come down. "Jeff Reid" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:U90Ug.2459$ef2.2091@fed1read09... > Making some progress, a 1:20.90, then a 1:20.79, with a more conservative > approach, trying to get the apexes, especially the last 30% of the track. > > May get a sub 1:20.50 within a week, depending on how much time I have. > >

A few more sub 1:21's but still losing almost 1/2 second to the reference replay after about the 50% point. Looking at merged replays, the reference car takes the turns just after the hairpin a bit faster. I can do hotlaps for about 1/2 hour or so, then I start getting worse, not sure what's going on. Anyway, I updated my zip file with the setup and 4 of my sub 1:21 runs. http://jeffareid.net/gpl/jrkl.zip

"Jeff Reid" <[email hidden]> writes:

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> > You don't say which car (I haven't seen the replay) > > Lotus. > > > The biggest gain I ever got in GPL was after several years of league > > Ok, so maybe after several years, I'll get this. Was hoping for something > shorter.

Kya is regarded as the toughest benchmark time. Take your time. :) /Andreas -- A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?

> Kya is regarded as the toughest benchmark time. Take your time. :) I'm already negative, but just barely. Was just trying to shave another .25 off my old time, but so far it's just .004.

> Lowering the acc ramp and raising the decelleration ramp makes you go faster. Takes a little getting used to but lap > times come down. I raised coast ramp, was running 85/45/5, switched to 85/60/5, time down to a 1:20.61, so at least an improvement.

"Jeff Reid" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:hRlUg.2790$ef2.2676@fed1read09... >> Lowering the acc ramp and raising the decelleration ramp makes you go >> faster. Takes a little getting used to but lap times come down. > > I raised coast ramp, was running 85/45/5, switched to 85/60/5, time down > to a 1:20.61, so at least an improvement. > The target to shoot for at any track is 30/85 with 1 clutch. The 85 decelleration ramp with 1 clutch allows maximum turn in capability - this is obviously dependent on your control/driving ability The 30 acceleration ramp makes the rear end work as one piece (almost). This makes the car turn better (test thru Escari at Monza for example). The other huge benifit of this is that you dont spin the inside tire coming off corners (like Parabolica). This does make the car a little more prone to snap oversteer but once again, how good are you? :)

Byron Forbes wrote:

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> "Jeff Reid" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >>I raised coast ramp, was running 85/45/5, switched to 85/60/5, time down >>to a 1:20.61, so at least an improvement. > The target to shoot for at any track is 30/85 with 1 clutch. > The 85 decelleration ramp with 1 clutch allows maximum turn in > capability - this is obviously dependent on your control/driving ability > The 30 acceleration ramp makes the rear end work as one piece (almost). > This makes the car turn better (test thru Escari at Monza for example). The > other huge benifit of this is that you dont spin the inside tire coming off > corners (like Parabolica). This does make the car a little more prone to > snap oversteer but once again, how good are you? :)

30 drive is gross overkill for many tracks. Trying to navigate something like the Mexico esses with that level of spool induced understeer is silly. If you need a 30 to make the pig turn, the car's chassis is way underbalanced, IMO. Agree with the 85 coast, although some tracks, like the Ring, really want the extra stability of a 60. Jeff, try a smaller step, and aim for something like 60/60/1. Move the brake bias forward if you're loosing the rear on corner entry. -G

What the hell are you people talking about! Just adjust the damned wedge :) -Larry "Greg Campbell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:VFuUg.3241$V6.437@fed1read06...

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> Byron Forbes wrote: > >> "Jeff Reid" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >>>I raised coast ramp, was running 85/45/5, switched to 85/60/5, time down >>>to a 1:20.61, so at least an improvement. > >> The target to shoot for at any track is 30/85 with 1 clutch. > >> The 85 decelleration ramp with 1 clutch allows maximum turn in >> capability - this is obviously dependent on your control/driving ability > >> The 30 acceleration ramp makes the rear end work as one piece >> (almost). This makes the car turn better (test thru Escari at Monza for >> example). The other huge benifit of this is that you dont spin the inside >> tire coming off corners (like Parabolica). This does make the car a >> little more prone to snap oversteer but once again, how good are you? :) > > 30 drive is gross overkill for many tracks. Trying to navigate something > like the Mexico esses with that level of spool induced understeer is > silly. If you need a 30 to make the pig turn, the car's chassis is way > underbalanced, IMO. > > Agree with the 85 coast, although some tracks, like the Ring, really want > the extra stability of a 60. > > Jeff, try a smaller step, and aim for something like 60/60/1. Move the > brake bias forward if you're loosing the rear on corner entry. > > -G

"Greg Campbell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:VFuUg.3241$V6.437@fed1read06...

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> Byron Forbes wrote: > >> "Jeff Reid" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >>>I raised coast ramp, was running 85/45/5, switched to 85/60/5, time down >>>to a 1:20.61, so at least an improvement. > >> The target to shoot for at any track is 30/85 with 1 clutch. > >> The 85 decelleration ramp with 1 clutch allows maximum turn in >> capability - this is obviously dependent on your control/driving ability > >> The 30 acceleration ramp makes the rear end work as one piece >> (almost). This makes the car turn better (test thru Escari at Monza for >> example). The other huge benifit of this is that you dont spin the inside >> tire coming off corners (like Parabolica). This does make the car a >> little more prone to snap oversteer but once again, how good are you? :) > > 30 drive is gross overkill for many tracks. Trying to navigate something > like the Mexico esses with that level of spool induced understeer is > silly. If you need a 30 to make the pig turn, the car's chassis is way > underbalanced, IMO. > > Agree with the 85 coast, although some tracks, like the Ring, really for > want the extra stability of a 60. > > Jeff, try a smaller step, and aim for something like 60/60/1. Move the > brake bias forward if you're loosing the rear on corner entry. > > -G

Yes, no doubt a track with a lot of slower corners would prefer less acc ramp for the reasons you mentioned. Not that I've tested for this though. What I really meant was to shoot for 30/85/1 at most places (obviously you need to make substantial adjustment to the rest of the setup at each variation of diff config) since it will normally be the fastest config. Then you go back from there taking into account your own skill level and less usually the number of slower corners as you've mentioned. A lot of the 30/85/1 configs were used by those using a lot of simultaneous gas and brake pedal driving techniques. A lot of my setups are in the 45/60/1 zone with monza a definite 30/85/1 setup. I am pretty sure that more than 1 clutch is a no no except for perhaps ovals. So any top 50 GPL Rankers around to weigh in? :) I think this is about right.

> What I really meant was to shoot for 30/85/1 at most places There are times of 1:18.xx with a conservative 85/60/5 setup, GH got a time of 1:18.25 with a 85/45/5 setup. I'm just trying to get a sub 1:20.5. Problem is I can't find any of the old replays with the older differential settings.

"Jeff Reid" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8yRUg.3003$ef2.318@fed1read09...

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> > What I really meant was to shoot for 30/85/1 at most places > > There are times of 1:18.xx with a conservative 85/60/5 setup, > GH got a time of 1:18.25 with a 85/45/5 setup. > > I'm just trying to get a sub 1:20.5. Problem is I can't find any > of the old replays with the older differential settings.

Byron is just saying to aim towards 30/85/1 ie use the stiffest (lowest number) power ramp you can get away with & the ditto loosest coast ramp, make small changes in that direction rather than going straight to the extreme. More than one clutch is only useful for an 85 power ramp, any stiffer & the steps between each clutch are too large (60 power with 2 clutches is stiffer than 30 power with 1 clutch, but 85 power with 5 clutches is still softer than 60 with 1). GH's times with any given setup are not representative of the general trend, you will learn more by comparing your setup to a driver who is closer to your natural level. In general faster times can be achieved by tending towards the opposite end of the LSD settings range that you are currently at, simply because it makes the car more directionally unstable - the car will rend to want to keep turning once you have started turning. There is no short-cut though, the whole setup is just a bunch of compromises to make the car as willing to do what you want it to. Most of my setups use 60/45/1. Use a tighter coast ramp & a higher gear to get less engine braking while maintaining stability. Malc. Malc.

My rank is -76 (no idea wher that puts me in rank anymore :) ) and i have a 1.18.1 at kya and pretty much all my setups are 70/45 1 or 2 > So any top 50 GPL Rankers around to weigh in? :) I think this is about > right. >

My chair time with GPL is about a year spread out over several years. I'm using twin joysticks (left for throttle/brake, right for steer), and can't use brake and throttle at the same time, so 1 clutch is too loose on the coast side (even with xx/30/1), so I'm using 85/60/5. There are many laps in the 1:18.xx range with this type of setup, and I'm only looking for a sub 1:20.50, but I'm just not quite getting it. There are sessions where I get a lot of low 1:21's and other's where I'm almost 1/2 second slower. So I'm having a problem with consistency. I get one or two sub 1:21's runs a day. I've updated my zip file, if anyone could take a look at my replays and see where I can improve on my driving. I don't think a setup is going to make much difference where I'm at right now. http://jeffareid.net/gpl/jrkl.zip

"Jeff Reid" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:_z9Vg.3103$ef2.2967@fed1read09...

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> My chair time with GPL is about a year spread out over several years. > I'm using twin joysticks (left for throttle/brake, right for steer), > and can't use brake and throttle at the same time, so 1 clutch is > too loose on the coast side (even with xx/30/1), so I'm using > 85/60/5. There are many laps in the 1:18.xx range with this type > of setup, and I'm only looking for a sub 1:20.50, but I'm just > not quite getting it. There are sessions where I get a lot of > low 1:21's and other's where I'm almost 1/2 second slower. So > I'm having a problem with consistency. I get one or two sub > 1:21's runs a day. I've updated my zip file, if anyone could > take a look at my replays and see where I can improve on my > driving. I don't think a setup is going to make much difference > where I'm at right now. > > http://jeffareid.net/gpl/jrkl.zip

Well one thing on a few turns is the famous 'slow in fast out' your not getting back on the throttle fast enough, get back on it earlier and dont boot it so hard. You seem to go from no throttle to full too fast, you should be accellerating as soon as you've stopped braking but only a small amount, increase this as you exit the turn IMO your main prob is your setup... GPL is designed to been driven with a wheel, they're cheep enough, go out and buy on, change your diff to 70/45 2 and your BB to 52%, you'll have a 19 in no time :)

> Well one thing on a few turns is the famous 'slow in fast out' your not getting > back on the throttle fast enough, get back on it earlier and dont boot it so > hard. You seem to go from no throttle to full too fast, you should be > accellerating as soon as you've stopped braking but only a small amount, > increase this as you exit the turn Thanks for the input. I have a tendency to do that, especially if I start getting tired from doing so many runs. As with most sims, it's hard to tell just how much acceleration you're getting from throttle inputs with no forces to feel, so at least for me, it's almost like memorizing your inputs after you get consistent. I'm still not getting that last sharp right turn with the rise before the front straight with the kink in it. Another issue is what's really needed to get the last few tenths, is fast in, slow at the apex, then fast out, for all but really high speed turns (like the kink at Kyalami, and the fast turns at Spa and Rouen). A combination of trail braking (which I suck at), or using coast side differential to hang out the rear end a bit and induced understeer to scrubb off speed from corner entry to apex. Also related to trail braking, especially if inducing understeer (intentional or not), is when you release the brakes, the car oversteers, when the expected reaction would normally be understeer. The result is the car sometimes oscillates after releasing the brakes. In one of my videos, the 1:02.75, on turn two (the second right), I managed to brake late, release quickly and enter the turn at just the right speed, orientation, and without the oscillation, but I can't duplicate this response consistently, so I take a more conservative approach. > IMO your main prob is your setup... GPL is designed to be driven with a wheel, I have a Momo Racing wheel with pedals, but too lazy to hook it up, as I have to remove a center drawer, clamp on the wheel, hook up everything, ... With the twin sticks, I have them on a clipboard that I just set to the side when not using them. With the wheel, there's no significant difference in my steering inputs, my throttle inputs are smoother, but my braking inputs are generally worse (with left foot, I don't want to bust up the plastic pedals trying to switch back and forth. However I can compensate for the braking inputs by calibrating at 100%, and reducing brake sensitivity afterwards to limit my braking inputs. Stefan Jager was very fast with a joystick, and I assume he used a single stick (having to control throttle/brake while steering with the same stick). I'm using twin sticks, and they are CH USB joysticks, with a very light centering force, so very subtle movements can be made. However, I'm using steering ratio of 20:1 and this could be a limiting factor for some of the turns. I'll give the wheel a shot this weekend though. > on, change your diff to 70/45/2 and your BB to 52%, you'll have a 19 in no time :) Setting the diff via GRE would be the next step. Anything xx/xx/1 would be too loose on the coast side for me, so a 60/30/1 setup didn't help much. Once again, thanks for the advice. A bit off topic, but in case you're curious, a pic of my twin stick setup: http://jeffareid.net/game/cr04.jpg I'm used to twin sticks because of radio control, transmitter: http://jeffareid.net/rc/futaba.jpg Couple of old videos: http://jeffareid.net/rc/jrartms.wmv http://jeffareid.net/rc/jr126.wmv

In article <7moVg.3349$ef2.206@fed1read09>, [email hidden] says...

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> > > Stefan Jager was very fast with a joystick, and I assume he used a single stick > (having to control throttle/brake while steering with the same stick). I'm using > twin sticks, and they are CH USB joysticks, with a very light centering force, > so very subtle movements can be made. However, I'm using steering ratio of 20:1 > and this could be a limiting factor for some of the turns. >

Yeah, there's no reason why using a stick should impede your performance. Used to do the same with one stick for GPL and had a rank of -50 or so and a 1:19.1 or thereabouts at Kyalami. Finally swapped to a steering wheel and pedals some 2 or so years ago and have never been able to match my joystick times, though I never was able to put as much time into it as I did whilst joystick racing, yet despite this, I personally wouldn't want to go back to using a joystick. It just wouldn't feel the same. -- Pete Ives Remove All_stRESS before sending me an email

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> Yeah, there's no reason why using a stick should impede your > performance. Used to do the same with one stick for GPL and had a rank > of -50 or so and a 1:19.1 or thereabouts at Kyalami. Finally swapped to > a steering wheel and pedals some 2 or so years ago and have never been > able to match my joystick times, though I never was able to put as much > time into it as I did whilst joystick racing, yet despite this, I > personally wouldn't want to go back to using a joystick. It just > wouldn't feel the same.

One advantage of the twin sticks, especially with light centering force, is there's very little fatigue factor. With the sticks on the clipboard, they're almost in my lap; I rest my elbows on the arm rests, and the sticks have ample support for the base of my hands, and I don't have to worry about where I put my feet. I'll give the wheel a shot this weekend though and sse how it goes. The last time I used the wheel it didn't take too long before I was close to my best times, but I didn't set any new bests either, but it was only a couple of sessions.