Results of the last 2 races at:
http:\\www.umich.edu\~epickett\rascar.html
Our largest field was 36 drivers, at the first Talladega race(where else?). 41
races, 4 drivers won 3 or more: Ginger(7), T_White(6), MGrandySr(4), zugzug1(3)
The first 3 names won 3 in a row at some point, T_White did it TWICE. Damn, is
the competition just that bad, or are these guys just that GOOD...?
Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPLRank:+6.19
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Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...
I think there's three basic types of drivers that participate in
Rascar:
1) Dedicated - these guys run fast no matter where we race, and
almost always win or place in the top 3 when they race. These guys
have been "doing it" for years and years, and spend/spent a lot of
time "in the seat". This is by far the smallest of the three
categories of driver.
2) Semi-serious - these are the guys that put in a reasonable amount
of practice time but vary widely in ability or confidence. They
really want to do well, but they tend to get into or put themselves
into bad situations where they end up damaged severely off the pace.
If we didn't have so many cautions, many of the guys in this group
could give the "dedicated" drivers a decent run for their money
simply by exercising some tire management and pit strategy.
3) Casual/newbie - these guys just run for the fun of it, and will
try to run a few practice laps before joining the race (if they
practice at all). These guys generally don't do very well - if they
would practice more and gain some confidence in what the car can do,
they would be better competitors. They're not bad drivers, they just
need a lot more seat time than they are willing to commit to.
---------------
I think most of the best racing happens behind Tim, Mike and Dave K.
We're back there scratching out anything we can get, and are well
satisfied to place in the top five on the lead lap (given that we
have no hope of catching the leaders until the next caution falg
flies). Me, Larry, Ginger, Mitch, Brian, and even Dave put on a
pretty good show most of the time.
Another thing is that with Tim, Mike, and Dave K being so uniformly
fast from week to week, there's really nothing to be gained by trying
to keep them from passing you, so many of us simply let them go after
feiging ability for a lap or two.
In the end though, it's just about the fun we have doing this, nd
we're damn lucky to have what amounts to a private server on which to
play without being hassled by the purile little dickheads that run
rampant through Sierra's pickup races.
It would be a damn shame if you quit hosting because, even though you
didn't race much, you still provided a valuable service for the rest
of us. I personally think you might have too many other racing
things going on that are more important than your participation in
RASCAR races, and that's fine because you're probably racing for
points. If I were you, racing in RASCAR would be way down on *my*
priority list too.
I don't mind the same three guys winning week after week (well maybe
I do a little), but I *would* mind if there wasn't any racing at all.
How about a GPL race sometime in the near future? I'm sure most of
the current RASCAR guys have that sim. :)
Quoted text (8 lines)
> Results of the last 2 races at: > http:\\www.umich.edu\~epickett\rascar.html > > Our largest field was 36 drivers, at the first Talladega race(where else?). 41 > races, 4 drivers won 3 or more: Ginger(7), T_White(6), MGrandySr(4), zugzug1(3) > > The first 3 names won 3 in a row at some point, T_White did it TWICE. Damn, is > the competition just that bad, or are these guys just that GOOD...?I think they are that good. (-:
--
Mike Grandy
www.precision-racing.com
"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> Results of the last 2 races at:
> http:\\www.umich.edu\~epickett\rascar.html
>
> Our largest field was 36 drivers, at the first Talladega race(where
else?). 41
> races, 4 drivers won 3 or more: Ginger(7), T_White(6), MGrandySr(4),
zugzug1(3)
>
> The first 3 names won 3 in a row at some point, T_White did it TWICE.
Damn, is
> the competition just that bad, or are these guys just that GOOD...?
>
> Eldred
> --
> Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
> GPLRank:+6.19
> N2002 Rank:+18.91
>
> Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats
you
> with experience...
> Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
On 18 Nov 2002 22:41:33 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote:
It's only because I stopped participating after about a race and a
half. =)
Jason
Quoted text (8 lines)
>Results of the last 2 races at: >http:\\www.umich.edu\~epickett\rascar.html > >Our largest field was 36 drivers, at the first Talladega race(where else?). 41 >races, 4 drivers won 3 or more: Ginger(7), T_White(6), MGrandySr(4), zugzug1(3) > >The first 3 names won 3 in a row at some point, T_White did it TWICE. Damn, is >the competition just that bad, or are these guys just that GOOD...?Quoted text (7 lines)
> 3) Casual/newbie - these guys just run for the fun of it, and will > try to run a few practice laps before joining the race (if they > practice at all). These guys generally don't do very well - if they > would practice more and gain some confidence in what the car can do, > they would be better competitors. They're not bad drivers, they just > need a lot more seat time than they are willing to commit to. >I agree 100%.
Except I'm not so sure you want to be on a GPL track with me LOL! Hell, the
AI quit about a year ago!
-Larry
"John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> In article <[email hidden]>,
> [email hidden] says...
> > Results of the last 2 races at:
> > http:\\www.umich.edu\~epickett\rascar.html
> >
> > Our largest field was 36 drivers, at the first Talladega race(whereelse?). 41
> > races, 4 drivers won 3 or more: Ginger(7), T_White(6), MGrandySr(4),zugzug1(3)
> >
> > The first 3 names won 3 in a row at some point, T_White did it TWICE.Damn, is
Quoted text (60 lines)
> > the competition just that bad, or are these guys just that GOOD...? > > I think there's three basic types of drivers that participate in > Rascar: > > 1) Dedicated - these guys run fast no matter where we race, and > almost always win or place in the top 3 when they race. These guys > have been "doing it" for years and years, and spend/spent a lot of > time "in the seat". This is by far the smallest of the three > categories of driver. > > 2) Semi-serious - these are the guys that put in a reasonable amount > of practice time but vary widely in ability or confidence. They > really want to do well, but they tend to get into or put themselves > into bad situations where they end up damaged severely off the pace. > If we didn't have so many cautions, many of the guys in this group > could give the "dedicated" drivers a decent run for their money > simply by exercising some tire management and pit strategy. > > 3) Casual/newbie - these guys just run for the fun of it, and will > try to run a few practice laps before joining the race (if they > practice at all). These guys generally don't do very well - if they > would practice more and gain some confidence in what the car can do, > they would be better competitors. They're not bad drivers, they just > need a lot more seat time than they are willing to commit to. > > --------------- > > I think most of the best racing happens behind Tim, Mike and Dave K. > We're back there scratching out anything we can get, and are well > satisfied to place in the top five on the lead lap (given that we > have no hope of catching the leaders until the next caution falg > flies). Me, Larry, Ginger, Mitch, Brian, and even Dave put on a > pretty good show most of the time. > > Another thing is that with Tim, Mike, and Dave K being so uniformly > fast from week to week, there's really nothing to be gained by trying > to keep them from passing you, so many of us simply let them go after > feiging ability for a lap or two. > > In the end though, it's just about the fun we have doing this, nd > we're damn lucky to have what amounts to a private server on which to > play without being hassled by the purile little dickheads that run > rampant through Sierra's pickup races. > > It would be a damn shame if you quit hosting because, even though you > didn't race much, you still provided a valuable service for the rest > of us. I personally think you might have too many other racing > things going on that are more important than your participation in > RASCAR races, and that's fine because you're probably racing for > points. If I were you, racing in RASCAR would be way down on *my* > priority list too. > > I don't mind the same three guys winning week after week (well maybe > I do a little), but I *would* mind if there wasn't any racing at all. > > How about a GPL race sometime in the near future? I'm sure most of > the current RASCAR guys have that sim. :) > >In article <[email hidden]>, John Simmons
<[email hidden]> writes:
I'm only in 3 leagues now. My 4th GPL league is in between seasons, and I quit
the two(three?) Nascar leagues I was in.
>I don't mind the same three guys winning week after week (well maybe
>I do a little), but I *would* mind if there wasn't any racing at all.
>
>How about a GPL race sometime in the near future? I'm sure most of
>the current RASCAR guys have that sim. :)
I may try to host a full GP over each holiday. Maybe one each for
Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Year's. Or maybe one NASCAR race and two GPL...
Haven't decided yet.
Eldred
p.s. I take it back - I forgot about Mark Seery's FL league that just started.
I shouldn't really count that, because I've never driven FL cars before. I'm
just driving alone, waiting for guys to disco so I can move up.
--
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPLRank:+6.19
N2002 Rank:+18.91
Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
Quoted text (8 lines)
>It would be a damn shame if you quit hosting because, even though you >didn't race much, you still provided a valuable service for the rest >of us. I personally think you might have too many other racing >things going on that are more important than your participation in >RASCAR races, and that's fine because you're probably racing for >points. If I were you, racing in RASCAR would be way down on *my* >priority list too. >In article <6nrC9.145555$[email hidden]>, "Mike Grandy"
<[email hidden]> writes:
Hey, who let HIM back in here...?
<g>
Eldred
--
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Quoted text (20 lines)
>I think they are that good. (-: > > > >-- >Mike Grandy >www.precision-racing.com >"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> Results of the last 2 races at: >> http:\\www.umich.edu\~epickett\rascar.html >> >> Our largest field was 36 drivers, at the first Talladega race(where >else?). 41 >> races, 4 drivers won 3 or more: Ginger(7), T_White(6), MGrandySr(4), >zugzug1(3) >> >> The first 3 names won 3 in a row at some point, T_White did it TWICE. >Damn, is >> the competition just that bad, or are these guys just that GOOD...?In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...
Isn't that way most of us move up in a GPL race? :)
Quoted text (15 lines)
> In article <[email hidden]>, John Simmons > <[email hidden]> writes: > > > >How about a GPL race sometime in the near future? I'm sure most of > >the current RASCAR guys have that sim. :) > > I may try to host a full GP over each holiday. Maybe one each for > Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Year's. Or maybe one NASCAR race and two GPL... > Haven't decided yet. > > Eldred > p.s. I take it back - I forgot about Mark Seery's FL league that just started. > I shouldn't really count that, because I've never driven FL cars before. I'm > just driving alone, waiting for guys to disco so I can move up. >"John Simmons" wrote...
> <snip>
> I think there's three basic types of drivers that
> participate in Rascar:
>
> <snip>
The real picture is a bit more complex, but basically you got a point. IMO,
category 3 drivers will either hoist themselves up into category 2 or become
disinterested, just a matter of time. I think we can already see this
happening.
There's some great, disciplined driving being shown almost across the board
in RASCAR.
> Another thing is that with Tim, Mike, and Dave K being
> so uniformly fast from week to week, there's really
> nothing to be gained by trying to keep them from passing
> you, so many of us simply let them go after feiging
> ability for a lap or two.
It's the nature of the beast... there's no use making enemies in the field
when the pay-off is still 50 laps away.
> In the end though, it's just about the fun we have doing
> this, and we're damn lucky to have what amounts to a
> private server on which to play without being hassled by
> the purile little dickheads that run rampant through
> Sierra's pickup races.
Hear hear... kudos to Eldred for providing such a valuable service. There is
no way I could enjoy N2k2 online the "Sierra" way.
> It would be a damn shame if you quit hosting because, even
> though you didn't race much, you still provided a valuable
> service for the rest of us.
I continue to be amazed by the guy. His dedication to simracing is, I think,
unsurpassed in the community. I'd like to meet him some day and get a feel
for what drives him.
> I personally think you might have too many other racing
> things going on that are more important than your
> participation in RASCAR races, and that's fine because
> you're probably racing for points. If I were you,
> racing in RASCAR would be way down on *my* priority list
> too.
I think one of the good aspects of the series is that it's expendable on a
"logical" level. I find it easier to skip than other series when real life
pressures mount. On the other hand, on an enjoyment level, things get far
more complicated. One of the moments which define RASCAR for me was the end
of our latest Phoenix race. The yellow was thrown and I chatted "Darn
it!! -I nearly had Simmons". In reply you chatted "<g>", IIRC. This spirit
of good natured competition and respect among drivers is something I
cherish.
> I don't mind the same three guys winning week after week
> (well maybe I do a little), but I *would* mind if there
> wasn't any racing at all.
Things have a way of working out. There's always somebody with bandwidth on
their hands.
> How about a GPL race sometime in the near future? I'm
> sure most of the current RASCAR guys have that sim. :)
Yup, that would be nice. If Eldred is unable to oblige I could even, if
forewarned, provide a good quality server at the usual RASCAR time.
Jan.
=---
Quoted text (8 lines)
> I think most of the best racing happens behind Tim, > Mike and Dave K. We're back there scratching out > anything we can get, and are well satisfied to place > in the top five on the lead lap (given that we have > no hope of catching the leaders until the next > caution flag flies). Me, Larry, Ginger, Mitch, Brian, > and even Dave put on a pretty good show most of the > time."EldredP" wrote...
> <snip>
> I'm only in 3 leagues now. My 4th GPL league is in between
> seasons, and I quit the two(three?) Nascar leagues I was in.
Not in a position to comment: 3 GPL leagues (one of which I run) + 1 NASCAR
league and RASCAR. Don't even know how I got myself into so much trouble.
<g>
> > <snip>
> I may try to host a full GP over each holiday. Maybe one
> each for Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Year's. Or maybe
> one NASCAR race and two GPL... Haven't decided yet.
Excellent... time frame allowing I'll be competing for a grid position in
each.
> Eldred
> p.s. I take it back - I forgot about Mark Seery's FL league
> that just started. I shouldn't really count that, because
> I've never driven FL cars before. I'm just driving alone,
> waiting for guys to disco so I can move up.
That sounds far too negative... there's no shame in outlasting other drivers
in GP distance events. You had your shit straight, they didn't... end of
story.
Personally, I dislike the way you put yourself down as a matter of course.
In my opinion you are an accomplished simracer. I admire your perceverance,
your stamina, your consistency and, to a certain extend, your driving. I
don't take beating you for granted, ever.
Though work and simracing related pressures have prohibited me from getting
as "hand on" (in a coaching/driving sense) as I would have liked to, I
remain committed to giving back to you for what you do for me an the
simracing community by attempting to find an angle to unleash your
potential.
It's all in the mind Eldred. I believe you are intrinsically faster than me
(ReplayAnalyyser shows you are). It's just a matter of finding a way to make
you believe in yourself and your ability. I'm keeping you under observation.
Jan.
=---
In article <e7BD9.14945$[email hidden]>, "Jan Verschueren"
<[email hidden]> writes:
I'll post some thoughts in another message.
>
>It's all in the mind Eldred. I believe you are intrinsically faster than me
>(ReplayAnalyyser shows you are).
Are you KIDDIN' me?!? :-)
>It's just a matter of finding a way to make
>you believe in yourself and your ability. I'm keeping you under observation.
Keeping me under observation? Uh oh - last time I heard that, I had to wear a
nice white jacket with sleeves that tied in the back...<g>
Eldred
--
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Quoted text (7 lines)
>> > <snip> >> I may try to host a full GP over each holiday. Maybe one >> each for Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Year's. Or maybe >> one NASCAR race and two GPL... Haven't decided yet. > >Excellent... time frame allowing I'll be competing for a grid position in >each.In article <e7BD9.14944$[email hidden]>, "Jan Verschueren"
<[email hidden]> writes:
<blush>
Well, thank you. Running servers doesn't cost me anything. I just happened to
be in the right place at the right time. You should be amazed at the people
who pay out of their own pocket to provide for the community. THOSE guys are
*really* doing something.
Eldred
--
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Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
Quoted text (10 lines)
>Hear hear... kudos to Eldred for providing such a valuable service. There is >no way I could enjoy N2k2 online the "Sierra" way. > >> It would be a damn shame if you quit hosting because, even >> though you didn't race much, you still provided a valuable >> service for the rest of us. > >I continue to be amazed by the guy. His dedication to simracing is, I think, >unsurpassed in the community. I'd like to meet him some day and get a feel >for what drives him.[email hidden] (EldredP) wrote in
news:[email hidden]:
Eldred,
First off a big "thank you" for hosting the RASCAR races.
I very much enjoyed the races and its drivers :)
It's a shame though you didnt attend anymore lately. I myself was dog-
slow and way behind the pack at some tracks (you kicked my butt at
Dover). But I'll keep analysing and see what needs to be changed in line
/ steering / braking / throttle / mentality to be competetive. One needs
to find (and thus cross) the limits.
I really hope I don't offend you, but with my (very limited) experience
my advise to you would be: screw the LPI, be more agressive and find
those limits. Unleash the lion!
I hope you will keep hosting _and_ attending RASCAR races.
Regards, jurjen
Quoted text (12 lines)
> Results of the last 2 races at: > http:\\www.umich.edu\~epickett\rascar.html > > Our largest field was 36 drivers, at the first Talladega race(where > else?). 41 races, 4 drivers won 3 or more: Ginger(7), T_White(6), > MGrandySr(4), zugzug1(3) > > The first 3 names won 3 in a row at some point, T_White did it TWICE. > Damn, is the competition just that bad, or are these guys just that > GOOD...? > > Eldred
"Jle" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Remember Rascar was started as an outlet for those without much expience
with oval racing. As such, when a few joined in that had years of
experience...they cleaned up. Not that these guys aren't good, drop them in
any league and they'd do well dang near every week. But Rascar just didn't
start with guys who had a wealth of Nascarian knowlege. Almost a learners
league (not that many weren't great simmers, just unfamiliar with the needs
of Nascar.)
I suspect next year a few more will step up to the plate.
dave henrie
---
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Quoted text (15 lines)
> [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote in > news:[email hidden]: > > > Results of the last 2 races at: > > http:\\www.umich.edu\~epickett\rascar.html > > > > Our largest field was 36 drivers, at the first Talladega race(where > > else?). 41 races, 4 drivers won 3 or more: Ginger(7), T_White(6), > > MGrandySr(4), zugzug1(3) > > > > The first 3 names won 3 in a row at some point, T_White did it TWICE. > > Damn, is the competition just that bad, or are these guys just that > > GOOD...? > > > > EldredI think RASCAR was started for the racers that have frequented the newsgroup
over the years. I know myself, Tim White and Don Wilshe have been here
almost since it's inception as a newsgroup. There are quite a few
accomplished racers that lurk on RAS and hopefully we will see some more
next season. I was impressed with alot of the guys we raced with and we had
some really good races.
For what it's worth, Tim White was there for the first RASCAR race and I
started racing about the 3rd race. Wilshe was there for the 2nd race.
--
Mike Grandy
www.precision-racing.com
"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:s4MD9.120419$1O2.8253@sccrnsc04...
>
> "Jle" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> news:[email hidden]...
> > [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote in
> > news:[email hidden]:
> >
> > > Results of the last 2 races at:
> > > http:\\www.umich.edu\~epickett\rascar.html
> > >
> > > Our largest field was 36 drivers, at the first Talladega race(where
> > > else?). 41 races, 4 drivers won 3 or more: Ginger(7), T_White(6),
> > > MGrandySr(4), zugzug1(3)
> > >
> > > The first 3 names won 3 in a row at some point, T_White did it TWICE.
> > > Damn, is the competition just that bad, or are these guys just that
> > > GOOD...?
> > >
> > > Eldred
> Remember Rascar was started as an outlet for those without much
expience
> with oval racing. As such, when a few joined in that had years of
> experience...they cleaned up. Not that these guys aren't good, drop them
in
> any league and they'd do well dang near every week. But Rascar just
didn't
> start with guys who had a wealth of Nascarian knowlege. Almost a learners
> league (not that many weren't great simmers, just unfamiliar with the
needs
> of Nascar.)
> I suspect next year a few more will step up to the plate.
> dave henrie
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.422 / Virus Database: 237 - Release Date: 11/20/02
>
>
"EldredP" wrote...
> > <snip>
> I'll post some thoughts in another message.
Found it. Will respond there.
> > <snip>
> Are you KIDDIN' me?!? :-)
No. First off because, in view of the aggravation you seem to give yourself
over this issue, it would be very cruel to toy with your sensitivities like
that and, secondly, because it's there in black and white (red and blue,
actually).
I have here on my computer a set of laps you posted on your site
corresponding to your previous GPLRank. If I compare any of this set to a
corresponding fast lap of my own, the G-G plot is telling. In slow to medium
speed turns I'd estimate you have at least 10% more area "under the curve"
than I do. That means, in slow to medium speed turns, you corner close to
the limit of adhesion for longer than I do. What's more, at e.g. Watkins
Glen, you make almost as good a use of available traction as Gregor Huttu
did in his earstwhile 1m03s record lap in those types of turns. Where Gregor
and, to a certain extend, myself make up time on you is the fast stuff and
using more of the road/better lines.
This leads me to conclude you're suffering a perception/confidence problem.
Not 100% sure, but at the very least it's also consistent with you always
saying "When I push any harder, I fall off"(1) and your relative N2k2
performance(2).
Whether this is due to your rig, your perception of the game "reality" or to
some physical/neurological problem, is hard for me to determine 100% sure
without actually physically present as you drive, but I'm fairly confident
my deduction is correct. Let's check...
I think it's safe to assume there's nothing wrong with you physically to
prevent you from doing well in the sim, as you would have trouble perceiving
the dimensions of your car and your position on the road in real life too
(you're not prone to "parking accidents" or "kerb scrapes", are you?).
I also find it hard to believe there is something seriously wrong with your
setup. IIRC you use a TSW2, which is as competent as non-FF wheels get,
basically, and I assume any persistent fault with your computer wouldn't go
unnoticed by yourself either.
Which leaves your perception of the game reality and your approach/attitude
to driving. These can be worked on by observing how other drivers go about
their business, but the catch is you can't do something unless you believe
_you_ can do it (or work up to it). You need to be able to pick up on what
someone else does differently or take in some advise (solicited or
otherwise) and visualize how you will apply this to your driving ("I can see
myself doing that"). I think this is one of your major stumbling blocks.
Perceiving what the car is doing now and then predicting what the car will
do in response to a control action goes hand in hand with confidence. You
can see the makings of a vicious circle here (1 bis). In your case, I'm
confident that if we can find an angle to even just eat away at the negative
feedback, subsequent improvements might surprise you.
> > <snip>
> Keeping me under observation? Uh oh - last time I heard that,
> I had to wear a nice white jacket with sleeves that tied in
> the back...<g>
Sorta like that, but without the dress code. <g>
Jan.
=---
Remarks:
(1) It's natural for people to push where they're confident. Trouble with
doing so in a racing car is: areas where you are relatively confident are
areas where you are _already_ using a lot of the available traction. In your
case, any more than "nearly all" (for your chosen line) means exiting the
racing surface.
(1 bis) It therefore follows it's safer to push where one is not so
confident as less of the traction budget is already spent there. Indeed,
some of the places you seem ill at ease at can be taken (a lot) faster by a
(small) adaptation in approach. However, this is where the vicious circle
nature of confidence comes into play. Unless you are really, truly, utterly
convinced and confident you can go _a little_ quicker (no use scaring
yourself witless) at location X by taking action Y before you actually go
out and do it, you will second guess yourself as you make the control
action, cramp up and go off regardless of how close to the limit you would
have actually been, thus reinforcing the "slow down" (or "stay away from the
edges") trigger for this location.
Have you read those Keith Code books I told you about ("Twist of the wrist"
volumes I/II and "The soft science of road racing motorcycles"), BTW? -He
deals with this sort of stuff a lot and is better at explaining stuff you
can do to prevent it happening (and draws better diagrams than me;-)). If
they're not in your local library have them transferred from somewhere else.
It's worth the hassle if you read them with an open mind.
(2) It's interesting to note your relative N2k2 performance is better at
places which are (nearly) flat out (Daytona, Michigan, Texas), which have
relatively shallow banking (IMS, Pocono, Homestead) or where overall speeds
are low (New Hampshire, Bristol) and less so at places where confidence at
pre-empting the car is a must to keep your speed/use the banking to full
effect (Darlington, Charlotte, Atlanta).
In article <r1TD9.16555$[email hidden]>, "Jan Verschueren"
<[email hidden]> writes:
Whoa - thanks for the reply! I've saved it for future reference.
<snip technical observation>
Nope - not at all. I don't have a problem in my real car. I can put it
exactly where I want to. I occasionally test myself(following tire tracks,
trying to run over a paper cup in the road, etc.).
>I also find it hard to believe there is something seriously wrong with your
>setup. IIRC you use a TSW2, which is as competent as non-FF wheels get,
>basically, and I assume any persistent fault with your computer wouldn't go
>unnoticed by yourself either.
This is still possible. Since I've never driven on anyone else's rig, I don't
have anything to compare it to. There may be something wrong that I've
accepted as 'normal'. One of my leagues had a LAN party/race weekend in
Wisconsin this year. I couldn't afford to go. That would have been a good
opportunity to get feedback or try a different rig. Maybe next year...
Ok, that makes sense.
Sounds like something another league mate once said regarding being in the
throttle at track out...
>Have you read those Keith Code books I told you about ("Twist of the wrist"
>volumes I/II and "The soft science of road racing motorcycles"), BTW? -He
>deals with this sort of stuff a lot and is better at explaining stuff you
>can do to prevent it happening (and draws better diagrams than me;-)). If
>they're not in your local library have them transferred from somewhere else.
>It's worth the hassle if you read them with an open mind.
I bought both "Twist of the Wrist" books on your suggestion. I glanced at
them, but didn't really have the time to read them properly. Then, I forgot I
even HAD them... :( I'll have to try again - I'll have plenty of time over the
Christmas holiday. I don't have "The Soft Science" - I don't remember you
mentioning that one before.
>(2) It's interesting to note your relative N2k2 performance is better at
>places which are (nearly) flat out (Daytona, Michigan, Texas), which have
>relatively shallow banking (IMS, Pocono, Homestead) or where overall speeds
>are low (New Hampshire, Bristol) and less so at places where confidence at
>pre-empting the car is a must to keep your speed/use the banking to full
>effect (Darlington, Charlotte, Atlanta).
Which is also probably why I'm better(or at least more confident) at certain
GPL tracks. Monza, Zandvoort, Zeltweg. I've won league races at all those
tracks this year. Maybe they all have the same 'style' required to get around
them well.
Lots to ponder - thanks, Jan!
Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPLRank:+6.19
N2002 Rank:+18.91
Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
Quoted text (15 lines)
>This leads me to conclude you're suffering a perception/confidence problem. >Not 100% sure, but at the very least it's also consistent with you always >saying "When I push any harder, I fall off"(1) and your relative N2k2 >performance(2). > >Whether this is due to your rig, your perception of the game "reality" or to >some physical/neurological problem, is hard for me to determine 100% sure >without actually physically present as you drive, but I'm fairly confident >my deduction is correct. Let's check... > >I think it's safe to assume there's nothing wrong with you physically to >prevent you from doing well in the sim, as you would have trouble perceiving >the dimensions of your car and your position on the road in real life too >(you're not prone to "parking accidents" or "kerb scrapes", are you?). >Quoted text (22 lines)
>Which leaves your perception of the game reality and your approach/attitude >to driving. These can be worked on by observing how other drivers go about >their business, but the catch is you can't do something unless you believe >_you_ can do it (or work up to it). You need to be able to pick up on what >someone else does differently or take in some advise (solicited or >otherwise) and visualize how you will apply this to your driving ("I can see >myself doing that"). I think this is one of your major stumbling blocks. >Perceiving what the car is doing now and then predicting what the car will >do in response to a control action goes hand in hand with confidence. You >can see the makings of a vicious circle here (1 bis). In your case, I'm >confident that if we can find an angle to even just eat away at the negative >feedback, subsequent improvements might surprise you. >=--- >Remarks: > >(1) It's natural for people to push where they're confident. Trouble with >doing so in a racing car is: areas where you are relatively confident are >areas where you are _already_ using a lot of the available traction. In your >case, any more than "nearly all" (for your chosen line) means exiting the >racing surface.Quoted text (11 lines)
>(1 bis) It therefore follows it's safer to push where one is not so >confident as less of the traction budget is already spent there. Indeed, >some of the places you seem ill at ease at can be taken (a lot) faster by a >(small) adaptation in approach. However, this is where the vicious circle >nature of confidence comes into play. Unless you are really, truly, utterly >convinced and confident you can go _a little_ quicker (no use scaring >yourself witless) at location X by taking action Y before you actually go >out and do it, you will second guess yourself as you make the control >action, cramp up and go off regardless of how close to the limit you would >have actually been, thus reinforcing the "slow down" (or "stay away from the >edges") trigger for this location."EldredP" wrote...
> <snip>
> Whoa - thanks for the reply! I've saved it for future
> reference.
You're welcome.
I think you could benifit from that... having another TSW user try your rig
could also be insightfull.
> <snip>
> Sounds like something another league mate once said
> regarding being in the throttle at track out...
That is a confidence thing pure and simple. _Knowing_ you won't run out of
road as you apply the throttle is key to being decisive enough to not
actually run out of road.
Cool, get cracking... you won't regret it. I can't remember whether I did or
didn't mention The Soft Science, but start thinking about planning your
approach to corners, using your attention efficiently etc.. by reading the
Twist books first. You can leave the "pure" bike stuff out, although I found
that very interesting as well.
> > <snip>
> Which is also probably why I'm better (or at least
> more confident) at certain GPL tracks. Monza,
> Zandvoort, Zeltweg. I've won league races at all
> those tracks this year. Maybe they all have the
> same 'style' required to get around them well.
They all have important corners which suit you, yes.
> Lots to ponder - thanks, Jan!
There always is and there always will be. Once you can drive the cars,
everything further is brainpower, not horsepower.
It's, IMO, a common misconception that the ability to (sim)race is something
one is born with or not, i.e. that it can't be learned. While there is some
truth in this statement, it is not all that black&white. It is true that raw
speed is either there or it isn't and that anyone who doesn't have raw speed
doesn't have a chance in hell to consistenly do well at the top level.
However, those who have raw speed still have to learn to harness it to be
consistent winners (and stay alive). This requires practise. Here's where
the myth originates... motorracing is hideously expensive to learn how to do
well. Almost no-one can personally afford to pay for the learning curve.
This is why only those with raw speed get the sponsoring and the drives.
This way of thinking gets transposed to simracing, but given that we do have
a reasonable amount of time on our hands and the financial strain is greatly
reduced, anyone can learn to simrace cars competently, IMO (like "gentlemen
drivers" do in RL), just like anyone can learn to play golf, the piano,
etc... to a certain standard, but only very talented people make it their
profession.
Learning to simrace requires dedication, practise and the willingness to ask
for and take on board advise, even for the very talented (who make it look
"easy", <g>).
Jan.
=---
