nascar n00b question

I have some questions about Nascar racing. I got into racing because of Gran Turismo 3, and I know the basics of road courses, but I don't know much about oval racing. In NASCAR HEAT, I have trouble getting in the top ten with Novice AI at Daytona and Expert realism. With "regular" realism and easy AI have no problems, though. I'm racing with 5X wear and 20 laps. All the cars keep passing me, even though I'm driving as fast as I can and generally following the line. I have done the first couple of "Beat the HEAT" mission sets, and now I'm stuck at Richmond. Everybody else is pitting, and I have about 5 laps left to go from 15 to the top 3 and I can't beat it. I tried to learn the track by doing some practice runs, but at Expert difficulty I had alot of trouble with the handling of the car- I had to brake alot and muscle the car around and I ended up crashing alot. On Novice the car is alot easier to turn. The "Beat the Heat" missions mention drafting. I have a loose idea of what this is (some kind of aerodynamic force?), but I want to know if it applies at every track, or just Daytona, and how close exactly do you have to be to a car to pick up speed? About NASCAR, in general. What exactly is a "team" in NASCAR, and does this affect the gameplay in any PC games? THanks in advance. I have watched a few NASCAR races with my grandfather (he watched racing alot) along time ago, and a few real dirt races, but I don't know much about it.

On 26 Nov 2002 12:14:18 -0800, [email hidden] (e f) wrote:

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>I have some questions about Nascar racing. I got into racing because >of Gran Turismo 3, and I know the basics of road courses, but I don't >know much about oval racing. > > In NASCAR HEAT, I have trouble getting in the top ten with Novice AI >at Daytona and Expert realism. With "regular" realism and easy AI >have no problems, though. I'm racing with 5X wear and 20 laps. All >the cars keep passing me, even though I'm driving as fast as I can and >generally following the line. > > I have done the first couple of "Beat the HEAT" mission sets, and >now I'm stuck at Richmond. Everybody else is pitting, and I have >about 5 laps left to go from 15 to the top 3 and I can't beat it. I >tried to learn the track by doing some practice runs, but at Expert >difficulty I had alot of trouble with the handling of the car- I had >to brake alot and muscle the car around and I ended up crashing alot. >On Novice the car is alot easier to turn. > > The "Beat the Heat" missions mention drafting. I have a loose idea >of what this is (some kind of aerodynamic force?), but I want to know >if it applies at every track, or just Daytona, and how close exactly >do you have to be to a car to pick up speed? > > About NASCAR, in general. What exactly is a "team" in NASCAR, and >does this affect the gameplay in any PC games? > > THanks in advance. I have watched a few NASCAR races with my >grandfather (he watched racing alot) along time ago, and a few real >dirt races, but I don't know much about it.

Well, with regards to drafting, basically, it's what happens when one car tucks right in behind another....the aerodynamic force allows the car in back to go faster, without using as much horsepower....thereby allowing the car in back to "slingshot" around at the last turn.... Drafting mainly applies at the larger tracks (Talladega, Daytona, Michigan, etc), and you've gotta be right behind a car to pick up any significant speed. It's hard, believe me. A "team" in NASCAR is basically the organization a specific driver races for (i.e. the Home Depot Racing Team of 2002 NASCAR WC Champ Tony Stewart). On raceday, it's basically the driver, pitcrew, and whomever else is "behind the wall" (i.e., in the garage area, or team owners who are either in the pits or in the garage). email me at [email hidden] Bob

> A "team" in NASCAR is basically the organization a specific driver > races for (i.e. the Home Depot Racing Team of 2002 NASCAR WC Champ > Tony Stewart). On raceday, it's basically the driver, pitcrew, and > whomever else is "behind the wall" (i.e., in the garage area, or team > owners who are either in the pits or in the garage).<snipped> it was too big Yeah a 'Team' in Nascar is pretty essential these days , there used to be a lot of independant one-driver squads , but no more... it allows the crew chiefs for the two or three ( or more !) drivers to pool setup information during practice and get more done. Plus all the other benefits of scale, pooled marketing etc. Plus .. and this is where it applies to your pc game .. nascar is one of those series where, to win, you are gonna need some buddies out there. Suprise suprise , the manual that comes with the pc thing tells you all about setup and the racing line , but almost nothing of the chess game of strategy and counter strategy played out on the ovals every weekend between the competing 'strings' of drivers and their respective crew chiefs . (although n2002 does have some training in strategy it is mostly 'practice your green flag pit entry' sort of stuff) That is why the most often used chat message ( well ok , the second ) at the superspeedways .. is ' work together' .. Where the pack can draft say , ten mph faster than a car alone, there is no way you're gonna win that thing without help... often the best way to get that help is to have a team driver out there with you .... and then you get teams working together ... :-) . Any good books covering strategy or is it all ' hero driver' stuff ? jv

"[email hidden] " <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

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> > Well, with regards to drafting, basically, it's what happens when one > car tucks right in behind another....the aerodynamic force allows the > car in back to go faster, without using as much horsepower....thereby > allowing the car in back to "slingshot" around at the last turn.... > Drafting mainly applies at the larger tracks (Talladega, Daytona, > Michigan, etc), and you've gotta be right behind a car to pick up any > significant speed. It's hard, believe me. >

How close? 1 car length, 2? > A "team" in NASCAR is basically the organization a specific driver > races for (i.e. the Home Depot Racing Team of 2002 NASCAR WC Champ > Tony Stewart). On raceday, it's basically the driver, pitcrew, and > whomever else is "behind the wall" (i.e., in the garage area, or team > owners who are either in the pits or in the garage). > In one of the "Beat the Heat" missions you are suppossed to draft behind your "Teammate", Bobby Labonte, because he's behind some laps but going fast (I finally beat this after about 10 tries). My question is: what incentive (if it were a real race) is there for him to help me? Does he get a reward if I win? Some kind of scoring/money? And does this show up in any PC games (racing seasons?). Are the AI drivers working as a team when they drive? I guess I never thought of auto racing as a "team sport". > > email me at [email hidden] > > Bob

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> In one of the "Beat the Heat" missions you are suppossed to draft > behind your "Teammate", Bobby Labonte, because he's behind some laps > but going fast (I finally beat this after about 10 tries). My > question is: what incentive (if it were a real race) is there for him > to help me? Does he get a reward if I win? Some kind of > scoring/money? And does this show up in any PC games (racing > seasons?). Are the AI drivers working as a team when they drive? > > I guess I never thought of auto racing as a "team sport". >

Well first they BOTH report to the same boss. So if the guy who signs your check is DISPLEASED with you...then you might figure out that co-operation is a good thing. 2nd. THe season is LONG...LONG LONG LONG. Many drivers, even those NOT teammates will sometimes help a driver or cut him some slack because he knows that sometime later in the year, he too might be in trouble and need a break. Often when the yellow flag is thrown, you will see the first 3 or 4 cars really ease up just before crossing the s/f line. They do this to allow any CLOSE lapped cars to pass by and get a lap back. Seems odd, but they then have a favor they can expect to be paid back at a later date. 3rd. In Nascar, the Owners get points too. One of the benefits of Owner points is the allocation of provisional start posisitons. If you blow up your motor during qualifying and have a new owner, you are out of luck, but if you have an established team then the owner probably has enough points to get you back in the field with a provisional starting spot. So the more team mates work together, the more they BOTH can benefit. Keep in mind, some teams are barely tied together, often they will not even share the same shop(although that trend is slowly dissappearing) But if one is in need of help...it almost always behooves the other to provide that assistance. However...as the end of the race approaches...the 'co-operation' factor begins to deminish. :) There are quite a few other ways teammates can help each other...limited testing days means teammates can share info instead of duplicating it. Often if one driver is out of the championship hunt, he will become a test mule for changes in the engine or Aero package(or even during a race, they may try a wierd tire pressure just to gauge the results for the rest of the team) that might help the higher placed driver get more points in future races. There just isn't enough space here for even a wordy bugger like me to list all the various ways individual drivers benefit by co-operation. dave henrie

True, except it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with sponsorship, it has only to do with the team owner. For example, Jimmy Spencer and Sterling Marlin both raced for Ganassi Racing last season, but had different sponsors. OTOH Ganassi had Target as a sponsor in both CART and NASCAR last year, but normally you would not have the same sponsor on two different cars in the same series, it would be too expensive for most sponsors. So if you want to know who your team mates are in a NASCAR race or any other race, you will have to do some research to find out who the team owner is and who else he employs. "[email hidden] " <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > A "team" in NASCAR is basically the organization a specific driver > races for (i.e. the Home Depot Racing Team of 2002 NASCAR WC Champ > Tony Stewart). On raceday, it's basically the driver, pitcrew, and > whomever else is "behind the wall" (i.e., in the garage area, or team > owners who are either in the pits or in the garage). >

"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<iZrF9.166983$1O2.9885@sccrnsc04>...

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> Well first they BOTH report to the same boss. So if the guy who signs > your check is DISPLEASED with you...then you might figure out that > co-operation is a good thing. > 2nd. THe season is LONG...LONG LONG LONG. Many drivers, even those NOT > teammates will sometimes help a driver or cut him some slack because he > knows that sometime later in the year, he too might be in trouble and need a > break. Often when the yellow flag is thrown, you will see the first 3 or 4 > cars really ease up just before crossing the s/f line. They do this to > allow any CLOSE lapped cars to pass by and get a lap back. Seems odd, but > they then have a favor they can expect to be paid back at a later date. > 3rd. In Nascar, the Owners get points too. One of the benefits of Owner > points is the allocation of provisional start posisitons. If you blow up > your motor during qualifying and have a new owner, you are out of luck, but > if you have an established team then the owner probably has enough points to > get you back in the field with a provisional starting spot. So the more > team mates work together, the more they BOTH can benefit. Keep in mind, > some teams are barely tied together, often they will not even share the same > shop(although that trend is slowly dissappearing) But if one is in need of > help...it almost always behooves the other to provide that assistance. > However...as the end of the race approaches...the 'co-operation' factor > begins to deminish. :) > There are quite a few other ways teammates can help each other...limited > testing days means teammates can share info instead of duplicating it. > Often if one driver is out of the championship hunt, he will become a test > mule for changes in the engine or Aero package(or even during a race, they > may try a wierd tire pressure just to gauge the results for the rest of the > team) that might help the higher placed driver get more points in future > races. There just isn't enough space here for even a wordy bugger like me > to list all the various ways individual drivers benefit by co-operation. > dave henrie

OK, I'm to get the picture now. So the driver is thinking of his paycheck instead of purely winning the race/season? Does he get any points in the season when his team-mate wins, or is it just money? But does this affect any NASCAR PC games? It would seem to me this would be more obviously oriented towards a career game, something that doesn't exist on the PC. It sounds like the team aspect is important in the real racing, but ignored in PC games?

"e f" > > But does this affect any NASCAR PC games? It would seem to me this > would be more obviously oriented towards a career game, something that > doesn't exist on the PC. It sounds like the team aspect is important > in the real racing, but ignored in PC games? Yup kinda like most of the flight sims..it's you against the world. I'm not a big fan of career mode...I don't dislike it, it just wouldn't be a sales feature for me, but I would like to see some interaction between you and your teammate. (not sure how or what tho...) :> dave henrie --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.422 / Virus Database: 237 - Release Date: 11/20/02

"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<y3yF9.149227$%[email hidden]>...

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> "e f" > > > But does this affect any NASCAR PC games? It would seem to me this > > would be more obviously oriented towards a career game, something that > > doesn't exist on the PC. It sounds like the team aspect is important > > in the real racing, but ignored in PC games? > > Yup kinda like most of the flight sims..it's you against the world. I'm > not a big fan of career mode...I don't dislike it, it just wouldn't be a > sales feature for me, but I would like to see some interaction between you > and your teammate. (not sure how or what tho...) :> > dave henrie > >

Most flight sims are not "you against the world". It hasn't really been like that for over 10 years. I'd like to see a career mode, just because I have found the career mode in Leadfoot and Dirt Track Racing enjoyable. It encourages a different driving style than "winning at all costs". Maybe you like multiplayer gaming better, or hotlapping, but I don't. I don't have a bad connection, just I don't like the hassle most of the time of having to set up a multiplayer game and fiddle with more settings, or worse yet, deal with unpredictable loons, or stuck up snobs. AI is alot more predictable. I notice alot of the console NASCAR games have career modes, but none of the PC games do. I tried the NASCAR Thunder 2003 demo, and while it was OK, I won't be shelling out money for it, not when they gave us a stripped down game compared to the PS2 version. Same thing with Nascar 2003 from Papyrus. Why should I really buy it? What new features has it got that are worth 50 bucks? And Infogrames hasn't made a Nascar update for the PC in several years, even though they have come out with Nascar HEAT 2: Dirt to Daytona on PS2 and Gamecube. Just sticking another year number on the box shouldn't be reason to lay down cash for a game. > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.422 / Virus Database: 237 - Release Date: 11/20/02