I just bought a Logitech Momo Racing wheel. If you're not familiar with
it this is Logitech's mid-price wheel - better quality than the Wingman
Formula Force GP but not as nice as the Momo Force. The GP wheel that I
have been using was working fine and did not really need replacing, but
the Momo looked so nice I couldn't stand it any longer, I had to have
one. This has led to a bit of the "new pair of shoes" effect, i.e. even
though the Momo is better in every way than the GP I was so comfortable
with the GP that I am having a bit of a problem getting adjusted to the
Momo. But despite that I think the Momo Racing is a much better wheel,
and I would like to share with you guys some of my early impressions of
it.
First this thing is big, takes up much more desk and floor space than
the GP. That is good in the sense that both the wheel and pedal units
are more stable, but bad if you are cramped for space.
The set is typical plastic construction, very little metal, no bearings,
etc. But it is still fairly well designed and most parts are pretty
beefy. The levers for the pedals in particular appear to be much
stiffer than the GP, which is good because the GP pedals flexed enough
to affect their accuracy.
The Momo Racing wheel has two different clamping arrangements. It has
the pair of small clamps on the side like the GP wheel, and it also has
a large screw under the center. This center screw is similar to the
clamps used with MS and some Thrustmaster wheels, but does not have the
locking cam that they use. Most people will probably just use the
center clamp and remove the side ones, but in my case the center one
interferes with the support for my desk drawer. As it happens Logitech
designed the entire center clamp unit to be removable with 4 screws so
that it can be interchanged with the lap unit from their PS2 wheel, so I
just pulled it off and stored it and now use only the side clamps. I
should also mention that those four screws thread into metal inserts, a
nice touch for people who will be changing the center unit often.
Small bit of bad news - with only the side clamps in use, the unit is
not very stable and using the gear shifter causes the whole assembly to
rock back and forth. Oh well, I prefer paddles anyway, and this problem
will not affect most other users, who most likely will use the more
stable center clamp.
About those paddles - they look flimsy, and there is no positive click
when you use them, but they are very responsive and I have yet to miss a
shift with them. With the buttons on the GP OTOH I used to miss shifts
fairly regularly. So overall I would say the paddles are very good and
a big improvement over the GP's shift buttons.
Plug everything in and get a pleasant surprise - unlike the GP this
wheel is autocalibrating. That's nice because frankly the GP wheel's
calibration drifted around a bit, and the only way to fix it was to use
DXTweak2 to put very small deadzones at the ends of the calibration
ranges for both the wheel and the pedals. It does not look like that
will be an issue with the Momo Racing wheel.
A short drive in NASCAR 2002 and I set a new PB at Watkins Glen. Two
improvements are immediately obvious. First the brake pedal is a thing
of beauty and appears to have been designed for NR 2002 specifically.
The pedal is very firm and very progressive, it almost feels like a real
brake pedal and the way the pressure builds up seems to have been
calibrated perfectly for Papyrus games. I think the Wingman Team has
been listening to all the people who are using the squashball trick
because this pedal has that progressively firmer feel.
The second thing I noticed is that the wheel is smooth as silk, even
with the NR's highly assymetric <fast> chassis setup. This setup used
to cause major spiking with the GP wheel, in part due to the fact that I
like to use a fairly high latency correction. The Momo seems to need
about the same latency correction as the GP (YMMV) but the Momo manages
to stay smooth. Very nice.
As you have probably heard, this wheel has an optical sensor. I was
told by a member of the Wingman team that between the optical sensor and
the firmware improvements that they have made, this wheel is the most
precise unit they have ever built. After only a little bit of use I
would have to say I believe him.
A little more driving and I notice my feet getting a bit sore. Okay
it's not all good news. The accelerator lays down very flat at full
depression and is a bit uncomfortable. It does have a nice long travel,
in fact both pedals do, but both seem to be on too short a radius, they
move through a large angle from full off to full on. This is something
I think I can get used to though, and again the brake pedal feel is
phenomenal and so it seems like it is worth getting adjusted to. And
again, maybe it is just the "new pair of shoes" effect that makes me
dislike the accelerator feel.
Still more driving and the "new pair of shoes" effect hits some more.
The thick steering wheel feels really nice when you first grab it, but
after a while I found it uncomfortable. Probably just a matter of
getting used to it, but with the GP wheel I could hold the wheel and
keep my fingers on the shift buttons, whereas with the Momo's thicker
wheel and offset paddles it is always a reach to shift. Actually a
pretty silly complaint now that I think about it, because the paddles
are a definite improvement. Yup, new pair of shoes again.
Still more driving and a few more PB's fall, this time in GPL. Okay,
the new shoes are starting to feel a little more broken in. I am really
starting to like this wheel. The smoother and more precise steering and
stiffer brake pedal are definitely helping my driving. Overall I would
say my first impressions of this wheel are very good. It is well made,
well designed, and well worth the money.
If you are a serious racer I think the more expensive Momo Force wheel
might still be preferable. It has sturdier construction and the ability
to be permanently mounted to a desk. But as a mid priced wheel, the
Momo Racing wheel seems unbeatable. Like I said, these are first
impressions only and I have not even tried it with all of my games yet.
But with those qualifications in mind I can definitely recommend it.
Very nice review. My LWFF pots are dying and the pedals are starting to get
a little sideways play in them. I've been considering getting a momo but
the pedals are a step sideways from the LWFF rather than a step forward from
what I've seen. I've always felt that the LWFFGP had better pedals than my
LWFF, but then again, I've only used them briefly.
Anyhow, one thing I'd like to know about the momo racing is the feel of the
FF. Do the cogs grate like those in the momo (and LWFFGP?) or is the wheel
blissfully smooth like the LWFF? Are the shifter paddles as difficult to
reach as the LWFFGP?
Cheers
Damien
> As you have probably heard, this wheel has an optical sensor. I was
> told by a member of the Wingman team that between the optical sensor and
> the firmware improvements that they have made, this wheel is the most
> precise unit they have ever built.
Even more precise than the MOMO Force? They must have done a great job with
the firmware to get that kind of precision out of an optical unit.
> If you are a serious racer I think the more expensive Momo Force wheel
> might still be preferable.
I'd take the wheel with the best precision any day.
--
Slot
Tweaks & Reviews
www.slottweak.com
It feels very smooth to me, but to be honest with you I don't notice the
notchiness in the GP anymore either. I don't think any gear driven
wheel will ever feel as smooth as a cable or belt driven wheel. So if
you are not used to a gear driven wheel you might find it to be notchy
for a while, but I think you will probably get used to it very quickly.
I honestly don't notice it.
The paddles are about an inch behind the wheel, and their tips are about
an inch inward from the outer radius of the wheel. I can put the entire
first joint of my fingers on them without changing my grip on the wheel.
You do have to move your fingers to grab them, which makes them a bit
more awkward than the button shifters on the GP or on an MS wheel, but
they are not a difficult reach IMO.
I guess I would recommend trying to find a local store where you can try
one out to get the feel of it. Even if they just have it sitting on a
shelf, you can move the wheel and see if it feels too notchy, try the
paddles, and test the pedal feel with your hands. Trying it in a store
is actually what finally sold me on it, it really feels good when you
get your hands on it.
Good luck,
Hal
"Damien Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:as6uh6$om6el$[email hidden]...
>
> Anyhow, one thing I'd like to know about the momo racing is the feelof the
> FF. Do the cogs grate like those in the momo (and LWFFGP?) or is thewheel
> blissfully smooth like the LWFF? Are the shifter paddles as difficultto
> reach as the LWFFGP?
>
> Cheers
> Damien
>
>
The comment about firmware improvements was made in a private e-mail. I
just re-read it, and actually the statement was more about preventing
spiking. This has turned out to be true, the new wheel is spike free so
far. There are comments about the optical sensing at the Wingman Team
forum, for example this one, in which Aidan says "the resolution with
this optical design is much higher than a pot based equivlant":
http://www.wingmanteam.com/discus/messages/4/1658.html?1038363396
Not a bad idea to review some of the posts in the general discussion or
the game related problems areas just to see what issues people might be
having, but keep in mind that most of the people that post there are
people who had a problem and are not necessarily the typical customer.
My experience has been very positive so far, YMMV. :)
"GTX_SlotCar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:as7q5u$osmvc$[email hidden]...
>
> Even more precise than the MOMO Force? They must have done a great jobwith
> the firmware to get that kind of precision out of an optical unit.
>
Interesting thread on that forum. I wonder how much time he put into his
answer (ie: looks like the guy asking about ball bearings got the run
around). Optics have the possibility of better resolution than pots, but
they suffer terribly from the "jitters". By the time this is tamed to a
manageable level, the resolution is quite a bit less. The guy may not have
been referring to the end result, or may not even be aware of it. One also
has to consider the limitations of the game controller in windows. High
quality pots like those used in ECCI or TSW wheels may hit the limit.
Steering spiking (not that associated with FF) occurs when pots get worn or
dirty. It's not an issue with optics, so I don't know why the firmware would
help in that regard.
--
Slot
Tweaks & Reviews
www.slottweak.com
"Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:as86b3$oqpkd$[email hidden]...
> The comment about firmware improvements was made in a private e-mail. I
> just re-read it, and actually the statement was more about preventing
> spiking. This has turned out to be true, the new wheel is spike free so
> far. There are comments about the optical sensing at the Wingman Team
> forum, for example this one, in which Aidan says "the resolution with
> this optical design is much higher than a pot based equivlant":
>
> http://www.wingmanteam.com/discus/messages/4/1658.html?1038363396
>
> Not a bad idea to review some of the posts in the general discussion or
> the game related problems areas just to see what issues people might be
> having, but keep in mind that most of the people that post there are
> people who had a problem and are not necessarily the typical customer.
> My experience has been very positive so far, YMMV. :)
>
>
>
> "GTX_SlotCar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> news:as7q5u$osmvc$[email hidden]...
> >
> > Even more precise than the MOMO Force? They must have done a great job
> with
> > the firmware to get that kind of precision out of an optical unit.
> >
>
I would think it would be a digital optical device, not analog. I
believe it is just measuring counts of shaft rotation, so I'm not sure
why there should be any jitter or spiking. Anyway I am not experiencing
any jittering or spiking. I should mention that the steering axis is
still 0 - 1023, just like most other wheels. So the real question is
how precise and repeatable are the 1024 counts that it sends to Windows?
Can't really answer that other than to say that it felt very precise and
smooth in the games in which I tried it.
"GTX_SlotCar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:as8rhv$p8l0j$[email hidden]...
> Interesting thread on that forum. I wonder how much time he put intohis
> answer (ie: looks like the guy asking about ball bearings got the run
> around). Optics have the possibility of better resolution than pots,but
> they suffer terribly from the "jitters". By the time this is tamed toa
> manageable level, the resolution is quite a bit less. The guy may nothave
> been referring to the end result, or may not even be aware of it. Onealso
> has to consider the limitations of the game controller in windows.High
> quality pots like those used in ECCI or TSW wheels may hit the limit.
> Steering spiking (not that associated with FF) occurs when pots getworn or
> dirty. It's not an issue with optics, so I don't know why the firmwarewould
Quoted text (10 lines)
> help in that regard. > > > -- > Slot > > Tweaks & Reviews > www.slottweak.com > >With a new wheel, pot or not, you should have spiking. Jitter with optics is
cured by the drivers, hence the lower resolution. The 1024 is just a number
assigned with the wheel's drivers. For example, the TM Ferrari shows 0 to
4096 with the new drivers. Older drivers showed 0 to 2048 and the original
ones showed 0 to 1024. It's an extrapolated number.
I really do hope the new Logi wheel has high resolution using optics. If it
can be confirmed, I'll run out and buy one right away. I just don't think
there's any magic here. It would probably take a new version of Windows to
actually cure the problem.
--
Slot
Tweaks & Reviews
www.slottweak.com
"Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:as8th5$p2iqi$[email hidden]...
> I would think it would be a digital optical device, not analog. I
> believe it is just measuring counts of shaft rotation, so I'm not sure
> why there should be any jitter or spiking. Anyway I am not experiencing
> any jittering or spiking. I should mention that the steering axis is
> still 0 - 1023, just like most other wheels. So the real question is
> how precise and repeatable are the 1024 counts that it sends to Windows?
> Can't really answer that other than to say that it felt very precise and
> smooth in the games in which I tried it.
>
>
> "GTX_SlotCar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> news:as8rhv$p8l0j$[email hidden]...
> > Interesting thread on that forum. I wonder how much time he put into
> his
> > answer (ie: looks like the guy asking about ball bearings got the run
> > around). Optics have the possibility of better resolution than pots,
> but
> > they suffer terribly from the "jitters". By the time this is tamed to
> a
> > manageable level, the resolution is quite a bit less. The guy may not
> have
> > been referring to the end result, or may not even be aware of it. One
> also
> > has to consider the limitations of the game controller in windows.
> High
> > quality pots like those used in ECCI or TSW wheels may hit the limit.
> > Steering spiking (not that associated with FF) occurs when pots get
> worn or
> > dirty. It's not an issue with optics, so I don't know why the firmware
> would
> > help in that regard.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Slot
> >
> > Tweaks & Reviews
> > www.slottweak.com
> >
> >
>
My old LWF had a calibration range of about 59-590 in raw calibration
values, and I always judged its accuracy against other wheels by picking a
number at random and trying to hit it, then moving the wheel slowly to see
if I could get single value increments. When it was new, I could almost
always hit the value I picked, and get single number changes with movement.
Now that it's old, I'm lucky if I get within 4, either initially or in
increments. Still pretty good, but the pots are showing their age (several
years without a hitch).
Even back when that series of wheels first came out, Logitech used firmware
averaging to eliminate pot spiking. The only hint I see of it even now is a
rare twitch in the POV using GPL glance. Good product!
"GTX_SlotCar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:as91f6$p2ufn$[email hidden]...
> With a new wheel, pot or not, you should have spiking. Jitter with opticsis
> cured by the drivers, hence the lower resolution. The 1024 is just anumber
> assigned with the wheel's drivers. For example, the TM Ferrari shows 0 to
> 4096 with the new drivers. Older drivers showed 0 to 2048 and the original
> ones showed 0 to 1024. It's an extrapolated number.
> I really do hope the new Logi wheel has high resolution using optics. Ifit
Quoted text (55 lines)
> can be confirmed, I'll run out and buy one right away. I just don't think > there's any magic here. It would probably take a new version of Windows to > actually cure the problem. > > -- > Slot > > Tweaks & Reviews > www.slottweak.com > > "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:as8th5$p2iqi$[email hidden]... > > I would think it would be a digital optical device, not analog. I > > believe it is just measuring counts of shaft rotation, so I'm not sure > > why there should be any jitter or spiking. Anyway I am not experiencing > > any jittering or spiking. I should mention that the steering axis is > > still 0 - 1023, just like most other wheels. So the real question is > > how precise and repeatable are the 1024 counts that it sends to Windows? > > Can't really answer that other than to say that it felt very precise and > > smooth in the games in which I tried it. > > > > > > "GTX_SlotCar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:as8rhv$p8l0j$[email hidden]... > > > Interesting thread on that forum. I wonder how much time he put into > > his > > > answer (ie: looks like the guy asking about ball bearings got the run > > > around). Optics have the possibility of better resolution than pots, > > but > > > they suffer terribly from the "jitters". By the time this is tamed to > > a > > > manageable level, the resolution is quite a bit less. The guy may not > > have > > > been referring to the end result, or may not even be aware of it. One > > also > > > has to consider the limitations of the game controller in windows. > > High > > > quality pots like those used in ECCI or TSW wheels may hit the limit. > > > Steering spiking (not that associated with FF) occurs when pots get > > worn or > > > dirty. It's not an issue with optics, so I don't know why the firmware > > would > > > help in that regard. > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Slot > > > > > > Tweaks & Reviews > > > www.slottweak.com > > > > > > > > > >I think you are asking questions that I can't answer. I would suggest
that you ask them at the Wingman team forum. I have always found them
to be very helpful.
"GTX_SlotCar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:as91f6$p2ufn$[email hidden]...
> With a new wheel, pot or not, you should have spiking. Jitter withoptics is
> cured by the drivers, hence the lower resolution. The 1024 is just anumber
> assigned with the wheel's drivers. For example, the TM Ferrari shows 0to
> 4096 with the new drivers. Older drivers showed 0 to 2048 and theoriginal
> ones showed 0 to 1024. It's an extrapolated number.
> I really do hope the new Logi wheel has high resolution using optics.If it
> can be confirmed, I'll run out and buy one right away. I just don'tthink
> there's any magic here. It would probably take a new version ofWindows to
> actually cure the problem.
>
Mine do click and have terrific feedback...something my previous Ferrari
wheel did not. The weakest part of the Ferrari was the crappy paddle
shifters.
Overall my new MOMO gets a total thumbs up from me.
Marc
Quoted text (7 lines)
> > About those paddles - they look flimsy, and there is no positive click > when you use them, but they are very responsive and I have yet to miss a > shift with them. With the buttons on the GP OTOH I used to miss shifts > fairly regularly. So overall I would say the paddles are very good and > a big improvement over the GP's shift buttons. >On mine there is an audible click that I can't hear when racing due to
the engine noise. The tactile feel is not really there, at least on
mine. Perhaps there is some build variation there that makes them feel
better on some units than others. But like I said they are very
responsive, with a nice light touch and a positive throw, and I am not
disappointed with them. Glad to hear that you like yours too. How
about that brake pedal, eh? ;o)
"Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:Gd5G9.8392$[email hidden]...
> Mine do click and have terrific feedback...something my previousFerrari
Quoted text (7 lines)
> wheel did not. The weakest part of the Ferrari was the crappy paddle > shifters. > > Overall my new MOMO gets a total thumbs up from me. > > Marc >They grate like the original MOMO...nothing has matched the wire/cables of
the old Logi in this regard. However, when the FFB is adjusted properly, it
is quite smooth when in use.
Marc
"Damien Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:as6uh6$om6el$[email hidden]...
> Very nice review. My LWFF pots are dying and the pedals are starting toget
> a little sideways play in them. I've been considering getting a momo but
> the pedals are a step sideways from the LWFF rather than a step forwardfrom
> what I've seen. I've always felt that the LWFFGP had better pedals thanmy
> LWFF, but then again, I've only used them briefly.
>
> Anyhow, one thing I'd like to know about the momo racing is the feel ofthe
> FF. Do the cogs grate like those in the momo (and LWFFGP?) or is thewheel
Quoted text (7 lines)
> blissfully smooth like the LWFF? Are the shifter paddles as difficult to > reach as the LWFFGP? > > Cheers > Damien > >
Spot on Haqsau, I had a Logi FF GP as well & went for the new MOMO, pedals
are heaps better my only complaint is you either have to use the shift
paddles or the gear lever not both.......but I guess it means you can use
the unused shift for wilco or something
You want to be able to have both the paddles and the shifter bound to
the shift function? Depending on the game, some games such as F1 2002
allow you to bind multiple buttons to the same function I think,
although you have to hack the player file to do it. Also, you could try
remapping the shifter in the Logitech Profiler software so that it sends
the same signal as the paddles. I have not tried that, but it appears
like it should be possible.
"TerryK" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:3de9580b$0$7948$[email hidden]...
>
> Spot on Haqsau, I had a Logi FF GP as well & went for the new MOMO,pedals
> are heaps better my only complaint is you either have to use the shift
> paddles or the gear lever not both.......but I guess it means you canuse
> the unused shift for wilco or something
>
>
no big deal, but sometimes I feel like using the stick shift......not for
online races, need but hands on the wheel
"Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:asbov1$q2hbu$[email hidden]...
Quoted text (21 lines)
> You want to be able to have both the paddles and the shifter bound to > the shift function? Depending on the game, some games such as F1 2002 > allow you to bind multiple buttons to the same function I think, > although you have to hack the player file to do it. Also, you could try > remapping the shifter in the Logitech Profiler software so that it sends > the same signal as the paddles. I have not tried that, but it appears > like it should be possible. > > > "TerryK" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:3de9580b$0$7948$[email hidden]... > > > > Spot on Haqsau, I had a Logi FF GP as well & went for the new MOMO, > pedals > > are heaps better my only complaint is you either have to use the shift > > paddles or the gear lever not both.......but I guess it means you can > use > > the unused shift for wilco or something > > > > >Oops, for what it's worth, and posterity, I meant to say you should *not*
have spiking.
> With a new wheel, pot or not, you should have spiking. Jitter with opticsis......
--
Slot
Tweaks & Reviews
www.slottweak.com
"GTX_SlotCar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:asg41l$qpfr9$[email hidden]...
> Oops, for what it's worth, and posterity, I meant to say you should *not*
> have spiking.
>
Don't worry about it, it was only the key word ;-)
I understood what you meant, but actually I was not referring to input
spiking, but to force spiking. My FF GP wheel did this in all Papyrus
games if I used assymetric camber in the setup, even when it was new,
and even after the most recent driver update, which did address some of
their spiking issues. I have heard of other people having this problem
also. It could be almost completely eliminated by using zero latency,
but then the forces are so totally out of synch with the car that I find
it impossible to drive at the limit. The Momo Racing wheel does not
have this problem, and it is my understanding that the reason for the
improvement is the firmware.
"GTX_SlotCar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:asg41l$qpfr9$[email hidden]...
> Oops, for what it's worth, and posterity, I meant to say you should*not*
> have spiking.
>
> > With a new wheel, pot or not, you should have spiking. Jitter withoptics
