RASCAR: Watkins Glen

Only 7 people showed up, and one of them had to leave to participate in a GPL league race. Neil Charlton was the fastest of the field by more than 2 seconds/lap, but he wrecked himself trying to pass Eldred in the outer loop. At that point, I was at the very end of the lead lap, and a little more than 8 seconds ahead of the leader (Neil). Neil had to pit, and that gave me a chance to catch up to and pass him while he was in the pits. The last 25 laps were tense for me but I never saw another car until the last lap when I passed Eldred just before the inner loop. Jay, Mitch, and Brian were all in the thick of competing for 2nd place for most of the race. Jan pushed me into the gravel in turn one after he lost a tire, and I believe he lost a lap getting back to the pits and getting it fixed (or fell way back). Mitch musta blown an engine or something, and I don't know what happened to Brian. He was on my ass most of the time between the 1st and 2nd pit stop, but then he just disappeared. In the end, I won (yeah, a roof rider at road courses), but Neil was catching me, even in a crippled car. It was fun, but I wish more people would have shown up.

It was a lot of fun - thanks for setting it up Eldred. I remember saying before the start that anything could happen and it did! You drove a near-perfect race John, a lesson in consistency. I was taking insane risks in the last 20 laps but you never gave me any encouragement ;) Great job - congratulations :) Regards "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Only 7 people showed up, and one of them had to leave to participate > in a GPL league race. > [snip]

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> The last 25 laps were tense for me but I never saw another car until > the last lap when I passed Eldred just before the inner loop. > > Jay, Mitch, and Brian were all in the thick of competing for 2nd > place for most of the race. Jan pushed me into the gravel in turn one > after he lost a tire, and I believe he lost a lap getting back to the > pits and getting it fixed (or fell way back). Mitch musta blown an > engine or something, and I don't know what happened to Brian. He was > on my ass most of the time between the 1st and 2nd pit stop, but then > he just disappeared. > > In the end, I won (yeah, a roof rider at road courses), but Neil was > catching me, even in a crippled car. > > It was fun, but I wish more people would have shown up.

First stop I was hot comin in and took a 15 sec penalty. I got back out ok and just put it in "cruise" mode. Around lap 45 I was exiting T1 and just touched the grass with my left rear and she snapped around into the wall hard, grrr. I was really just keeping a good pace and had a brain fart ;) Fun while it lasted though.. Pretty dang early for me anyways :)) Great run John!! Mitch "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Only 7 people showed up, and one of them had to leave to participate > in a GPL league race. > > Neil Charlton was the fastest of the field by more than 2 > seconds/lap, but he wrecked himself trying to pass Eldred in the > outer loop. At that point, I was at the very end of the lead lap, > and a little more than 8 seconds ahead of the leader (Neil). Neil > had to pit, and that gave me a chance to catch up to and pass him > while he was in the pits. > > The last 25 laps were tense for me but I never saw another car until > the last lap when I passed Eldred just before the inner loop. > > Jay, Mitch, and Brian were all in the thick of competing for 2nd > place for most of the race. Jan pushed me into the gravel in turn one > after he lost a tire, and I believe he lost a lap getting back to the > pits and getting it fixed (or fell way back). Mitch musta blown an > engine or something, and I don't know what happened to Brian. He was > on my ass most of the time between the 1st and 2nd pit stop, but then > he just disappeared. > > In the end, I won (yeah, a roof rider at road courses), but Neil was > catching me, even in a crippled car. > > It was fun, but I wish more people would have shown up.

"John Simmons" wrote... > <snip> > Jan pushed me into the gravel in turn one after he lost > a tire, and I believe he lost a lap getting back to the > pits and getting it fixed (or fell way back). Yup, haughtiness proving my downfall today. I was really confident I could stay out there until I needed fuel. I've gone the distance on many tracks, many times. Surely I know what it takes, right? Didn't even think about checking the tyres at such a relatively early stage (lap 27 or something?). Front was moving around a bit, but I put that down to a bit of aero push following you around. Couldn't have been more wrong, of course. Then I was a bit late braking for T1. LF locked and went down immediately... tried lifting a little and moving to the inside to avoid, but it wouldn't turn any more so I just braked hard and hoped for the best. Really sorry about the contact... my fault entirely. I should have kept a better eye on the condition of my tyres. Perhaps I'd hurt them slowing when I caught up with you after you made a small error in that chicane before the loop and then pushed too hard to keep up making the wear progressively worse as I did so. By locking everything up in a vain attempt to avoid contact the right front had gone as well and I got stuck in the sandtrap (could only move straight forward/back), so had to get towed. Lost two laps in the pits. Afterwards I just kept as steady a pace as I could. Unlapped myself from Eldred and, in the last 20, pushed to pass him for position as he ran into tyre trouble (again?). 2nd and 3rd set of Goodyear Eagles performed consistently well, eventhough I got down into the 1m17's at one point. Strange, but that's racin'. Jan. =---

In article <[email hidden]>, John Simmons <[email hidden]> writes:

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>Only 7 people showed up, and one of them had to leave to participate >in a GPL league race. > >Neil Charlton was the fastest of the field by more than 2 >seconds/lap, but he wrecked himself trying to pass Eldred in the >outer loop. At that point, I was at the very end of the lead lap, >and a little more than 8 seconds ahead of the leader (Neil). Neil >had to pit, and that gave me a chance to catch up to and pass him >while he was in the pits. > >The last 25 laps were tense for me but I never saw another car until >the last lap when I passed Eldred just before the inner loop. >

That was one damn boring race from my point of view. Last on the grid(yeah, I know - big surprise), watching everyone pull away. Got lapped before the first pitstop. I went about 32 laps on the first set of tires. Came out, got in Jan's way as I came out of the pits(he was warping - I thought he was already past.) Got in Neil's way as he came up to lap me for the umpteenth time. I got up to 3rd due to attrition, Jan was 4th(a little more than a lap down) because of his tire problem. On about lap 60 or so, I drifted wide on the last turn. Going down the front straight, I checked my tires - LF red. Whoa, that was quick, I'd better pit this lap. T2 - LF blew out. I crawled back around to my pit, fueled and changed tires. Jan made up his lap on me and was about 25 or so seconds back. He caught and passed me, dropping me to 4th. About 2 laps from the end - *another* LF blow-out. WTF? I limped around, got lapped again, and crossed the finish line throwing sparkes from my destroyed tire. I just don't get it - first stint - I ran out of gas before the tires went away. After that, the tires just didn't last. I didn't do anything differently, and I wasn't any faster, so I don't know how I wore the tires down so quickly. I may as well have sat this race out. F'king waste of time.... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:+6.19 N2002 Rank:+18.91 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

I wanted to show, but it wasn't meant to be. I stayed up until 2am practicing at the track. Then I was going to go to bed, but got tied up in a movie and a few other things, and the next thing I knew it was 6am. Once I hit the sack there was no getting up at 0930 to prep for the race. I slept right through the alarm :( -Larry "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Only 7 people showed up, and one of them had to leave to participate > in a GPL league race. > > Neil Charlton was the fastest of the field by more than 2 > seconds/lap, but he wrecked himself trying to pass Eldred in the > outer loop. At that point, I was at the very end of the lead lap, > and a little more than 8 seconds ahead of the leader (Neil). Neil > had to pit, and that gave me a chance to catch up to and pass him > while he was in the pits. > > The last 25 laps were tense for me but I never saw another car until > the last lap when I passed Eldred just before the inner loop. > > Jay, Mitch, and Brian were all in the thick of competing for 2nd > place for most of the race. Jan pushed me into the gravel in turn one > after he lost a tire, and I believe he lost a lap getting back to the > pits and getting it fixed (or fell way back). Mitch musta blown an > engine or something, and I don't know what happened to Brian. He was > on my ass most of the time between the 1st and 2nd pit stop, but then > he just disappeared. > > In the end, I won (yeah, a roof rider at road courses), but Neil was > catching me, even in a crippled car. > > It was fun, but I wish more people would have shown up.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> That was one damn boring race from my point of view. Last on the grid(yeah, I > know - big surprise), watching everyone pull away. Got lapped before the first > pitstop. I went about 32 laps on the first set of tires. Came out, got in > Jan's way as I came out of the pits(he was warping - I thought he was already > past.) Got in Neil's way as he came up to lap me for the umpteenth time. I > got up to 3rd due to attrition, Jan was 4th(a little more than a lap down) > because of his tire problem. On about lap 60 or so, I drifted wide on the last > turn. Going down the front straight, I checked my tires - LF red. Whoa, that > was quick, I'd better pit this lap. T2 - LF blew out. I crawled back around > to my pit, fueled and changed tires. Jan made up his lap on me and was about > 25 or so seconds back. He caught and passed me, dropping me to 4th. About 2 > laps from the end - *another* LF blow-out. WTF? I limped around, got lapped > again, and crossed the finish line throwing sparkes from my destroyed tire. > I just don't get it - first stint - I ran out of gas before the tires went > away. After that, the tires just didn't last. I didn't do anything > differently, and I wasn't any faster, so I don't know how I wore the tires down > so quickly. I may as well have sat this race out. F'king waste of time....

If you slide *at all* on the road courses, you're gonna wear the tires down faster. They're gonna wear out faster if you happen to be turning the wheel when you start to slide. The key is to drive without getting any noise out of the tires at all. On road courses, this is tough to do. I honestly think you should change driving views and try some offline practice at Watkins. I bet you pick up two seconds on your lap time, and you don't burn the tires off as quick because you'll be able to judge the turns better.

Sorry I missed the race, I really like the road courses. I've just moved house (well, staying at my Mum's until the new house sale is complete) so I'm limited to just talking about racing for now because I only have the laptop and a 56k connection :( Hope to be back on track within a few weeks, but the way the housing market moves it could be a bit longer ;) Have fun, should be some clean races without me there <G> -- Thanks Ian P <email invalid due to spam> "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Only 7 people showed up, and one of them had to leave to participate > in a GPL league race. > > > It was fun, but I wish more people would have shown up.

On Sun, 01 Dec 2002 18:11:50 GMT, John Simmons <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Only 7 people showed up, and one of them had to leave to participate >in a GPL league race. > >Neil Charlton was the fastest of the field by more than 2 >seconds/lap, but he wrecked himself trying to pass Eldred in the >outer loop. At that point, I was at the very end of the lead lap, >and a little more than 8 seconds ahead of the leader (Neil). Neil >had to pit, and that gave me a chance to catch up to and pass him >while he was in the pits. > >The last 25 laps were tense for me but I never saw another car until >the last lap when I passed Eldred just before the inner loop. > >Jay, Mitch, and Brian were all in the thick of competing for 2nd >place for most of the race. Jan pushed me into the gravel in turn one >after he lost a tire, and I believe he lost a lap getting back to the >pits and getting it fixed (or fell way back). Mitch musta blown an >engine or something, and I don't know what happened to Brian. He was >on my ass most of the time between the 1st and 2nd pit stop, but then >he just disappeared.

Had an... umm... distraction and had to bail. Don't think I would have made it around you unless you made a mistake though. Congrats on the win. The Glen is fun though, even with only 7. Brian Oster

In article <[email hidden]>, John Simmons <[email hidden]> writes: >I honestly think you should change driving views and try some offline >practice at Watkins. I bet you pick up two seconds on your lap time, >and you don't burn the tires off as quick because you'll be able to >judge the turns better. Even if I do, how can I transfer that to the cockpit view? That's all I use online, so I have to find some way to get the same info while in that view... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:+6.19 N2002 Rank:+18.91 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, Brian Oster <bgoster@swbell**nosmap**.com> writes: >Had an... umm... distraction and had to bail. What's her name? ;-) Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:+6.19 N2002 Rank:+18.91 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> In article <[email hidden]>, John Simmons > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >I honestly think you should change driving views and try some offline > >practice at Watkins. I bet you pick up two seconds on your lap time, > >and you don't burn the tires off as quick because you'll be able to > >judge the turns better. > > Even if I do, how can I transfer that to the cockpit view? That's all I use > online, so I have to find some way to get the same info while in that view... > > Eldred >

Well, I thought you were interested in doing better in the races, so I suggested trying the different view to see if your lap times improved. You said you couldn't see the edge of the track. Driving the roof view improves your ability to see the track.

>Well, I thought you were interested in doing better in the races, so >I suggested trying the different view to see if your lap times >improved. You said you couldn't see the edge of the track. Driving >the roof view improves your ability to see the track. We'll see. I may try it in practice(if I can find the time). I guess I have my doubts that it will help ME, but that's just a personal issue I have with these games... :( Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:+6.19 N2002 Rank:+18.91 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

EldredP wrote:

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> > >Well, I thought you were interested in doing better in the races, so > >I suggested trying the different view to see if your lap times > >improved. You said you couldn't see the edge of the track. Driving > >the roof view improves your ability to see the track. > > We'll see. I may try it in practice(if I can find the time). I guess I have > my doubts that it will help ME, but that's just a personal issue I have with > these games... :(

If you stop believing it's possible for you to improve, then you won't, other than by pure chance, my guess is that somewhere, somehow, you're doing something that is limiting your ability to go faster, but then again I guess you've heard it all before :-) and I'm afraid I'm not much good at teaching When you practice offline, do you run with damage off or on ? I switched damage off a long time ago, when trying to find the limits of what I can do with the setup I'm using at that particular time, the last thing I want is to worry about bending the car and wasting time doing yet another out lap Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ "A man is only as old as the woman he feels" --Groucho Marx--

>When you practice offline, do you run with damage off or on ? > >I switched damage off a long time ago, when trying to find the limits of >what I can do with the setup I'm using at that particular time, the last >thing I want is to worry about bending the car and wasting time doing >yet another out lap My NASCAR practice is run with damage on. That's the default, I think. Maybe I should change that - I believe I practice GPL with damage off... I actually need to have the TIME to practice more. That's one of the reasons I stopped joining the RASCAR races - not enough track time, and I wasn't motivated enough to MAKE time... I just didn't give a damn anymore. Whoops - that reminds me that I never posted the replay... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:+6.19 N2002 Rank:+18.91 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

EldredP wrote:

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> > My NASCAR practice is run with damage on. That's the default, I think. Maybe > I should change that - I believe I practice GPL with damage off... > I actually need to have the TIME to practice more. That's one of the reasons I > stopped joining the RASCAR races - not enough track time, and I wasn't > motivated enough to MAKE time... > I just didn't give a damn anymore. Whoops - that reminds me that I never > posted the replay...

Sounds like you need a break more than anything else Eldred... Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

EldredP wrote: > > ...stuff about his performance at the glen... I went back and watched the reply Eldred, and you're 10-20mph slower than everyone else in critical spots on the track. Racing a roadie in NR2k2 is no different than running the same track in GPL in one repsect. The better your entry, the better your exit, the better your exit, the better your lap times. You either weren't in 4th gear, or had just gone into fourth gear *long* after the rest of us. You also went into first more than you needed to (it's not necessary to go down to 1st at the Carousel for instance). It's almost like your gas pedal needs to be calibrated because you weren't getting the exit speed you needed. Maybe you're anticipating the turns too early, or you simply don't want to go into 4th gear, but whatever the cause, you simply don't have any speed. I cut out my best lap from the race, and it's most certainly only an average lap, but being an average lap, I thought it might help. If you want it, I can email it to you. I honestly think you could get a better feel for the track if you drove from the roof view. There's certainly no shame in it if it makes you more competitive, and people that claim otherwise are full of shit. Afterall, to keep it fun, you have to know that you can run up front. I see no reason to think you can't be just as fast as anyone else. I race the <fast> setup with no linearity changes, clutch help is on, and I drive from the roof.

On 03 Dec 2002 05:34:24 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote:

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>In article <[email hidden]>, Brian Oster ><bgoster@swbell**nosmap**.com> writes: > >>Had an... umm... distraction and had to bail. > >What's her name? ;-) >

Lol. Actually it kinda was my wife. I had to explain to her that it is not possible to navigate the Glen and watch my 8 month old son at the same time. Women... they just don't understand the important things in life. :) Brian Oster

In article <[email hidden]>, John Simmons <[email hidden]> writes: >I went back and watched the reply Eldred, and you're 10-20mph slower >than everyone else in critical spots on the track. >Whoa - that much?!? Damn...

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>Racing a roadie in NR2k2 is no different than running the same track >in GPL in one repsect. The better your entry, the better your exit, >the better your exit, the better your lap times. You either weren't >in 4th gear, or had just gone into fourth gear *long* after the rest >of us. You also went into first more than you needed to (it's not >necessary to go down to 1st at the Carousel for instance). > >It's almost like your gas pedal needs to be calibrated because you >weren't getting the exit speed you needed.

Can't be that - I've tried re-calibrating, and it hasn't changed my laptimes. >Maybe you're anticipating the turns too early, or you simply don't >want to go into 4th gear, but whatever the cause, you simply don't >have any speed. I see myself as hitting the brakes at the spot that I need to in order to make the turn. I *do* get into 4th on the three long straights - was there somewhere else that I *should* have gotten to top gear? >I cut out my best lap from the race, and it's most certainly only an >average lap, but being an average lap, I thought it might help. If >you want it, I can email it to you. What lap was your fastlap? I saved my local replay, so I can check it here. I don't have N2k replay analyzer, so I can't check it that way, but I can certainly look a your line and the speeds you get. Thanks. Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:+6.19 N2002 Rank:+18.91 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, Brian Oster <bgoster@swbell**nosmap**.com> writes:

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>On 03 Dec 2002 05:34:24 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: > >>In article <[email hidden]>, Brian Oster >><bgoster@swbell**nosmap**.com> writes: >> >>>Had an... umm... distraction and had to bail. >> >>What's her name? ;-) >> > >Lol. Actually it kinda was my wife. I had to explain to her that it >is not possible to navigate the Glen and watch my 8 month old son at >the same time. Women... they just don't understand the important >things in life. :)

I *knew* it had to be a woman...<g> Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:+6.19 N2002 Rank:+18.91 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> In article <[email hidden]>, John Simmons > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >I went back and watched the reply Eldred, and you're 10-20mph slower > >than everyone else in critical spots on the track. > > > Whoa - that much?!? Damn...

Yeah, I was surprised too.

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> >Maybe you're anticipating the turns too early, or you simply don't > >want to go into 4th gear, but whatever the cause, you simply don't > >have any speed. > > I see myself as hitting the brakes at the spot that I need to in order to make > the turn. I *do* get into 4th on the three long straights - was there > somewhere else that I *should* have gotten to top gear?

Well, a good example is coming out of the esses. I'm in 4th before I get onto the straight, and if you made it to fourth, it was just before the turn markers for the inner loop. A few times on the back straight (after the outer loop) you never made it to fourth at all (ditto on the front stretch). Despite the fact that you were not hitting your best possible speed on the straights, you were still hitting the same brake points as the rest of us, which brought your lap times down even more.

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> >I cut out my best lap from the race, and it's most certainly only an > >average lap, but being an average lap, I thought it might help. If > >you want it, I can email it to you. > > What lap was your fastlap? I saved my local replay, so I can check it here. I > don't have N2k replay analyzer, so I can't check it that way, but I can > certainly look a your line and the speeds you get. Thanks.

During the race, it was 1:18.077, but I've turned 1:16's with the same setup. I was taking it easier than normal due to the length of the race, and was turning 1:18's-1:19's. Last time we went to watkins Glen, I lost 2nd gear early in the race, and I didn't want that to happen in a 100% race. You need to get more aggressive on your exits, wind the motor up as far as it will go before the engine light starts to flash before shifting up, and when you haul it down for a turn, start down shifting for the turn as soon as you start braking. Down-shifts should be about 1-second apart. The only thing you should be worried about is sliding while you're hauling it down, because that'll chew the tires up pretty good on the roadies. The way I see it is *anyone* can go as fast as I do, because I'm certainly not the fastest - I'm just average.

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>Well, a good example is coming out of the esses. I'm in 4th before I >get onto the straight, and if you made it to fourth, it was just >before the turn markers for the inner loop. > >A few times on the back straight (after the outer loop) you never >made it to fourth at all (ditto on the front stretch). Despite the >fact that you were not hitting your best possible speed on the >straights, you were still hitting the same brake points as the rest >of us, which brought your lap times down even more.

I normally get into 4th in both those spots. If I didn't a few times it was because I either lifted to let someone pass, or I clipped the curb in the turn... I have to use the same brakepoints because I don't get a good sense of speed in these games. I always feel like I'm going faster than I really am. So if I tried to brake later, I'd likely slide off the track(that happened a couple of times). Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:+6.19 N2002 Rank:+18.91 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.