My Kingdom for decent AI

Every racing game I own has crap AI. It seems I can't run one complete race because the AI wipes me out. Just yesterday I was running F1 '99-02' at Monza and was in fourth place when some numbnuts AI car rear ends me in a corner. Every racing game I have has this issue. It's time they put less effort into the graphics and more into the AI.

"Crispy Critter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:f23uvju4ns6s$[email hidden]... > Every racing game I own has crap AI. It seems I can't run one complete > race > because the AI wipes me out. Just yesterday I was running F1 '99-02' at > Monza and was in fourth place when some numbnuts AI car rear ends me in a > corner. Every racing game I have has this issue. It's time they put less > effort into the graphics and more into the AI. Well, my attitude is that it's about time they put more effort into online racing and competitions! :)

On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 06:49:29 +1000, Byron Forbes wrote: > > Well, my attitude is that it's about time they put more effort into > online racing and competitions! :) Last time I played online racing was not a pleasant experience. I crashed onto the inner field and some moron decided I was trying to cheat by cutting the corner so proceded to smash up my car with his. What a fucking idiot. I had left the track purely because someone had bumped my car from behind. It's hard to control a Nascar when travelling at near to 200mph and someone bumps you from behind. Online gaming is full of cheaters and people that thinks it's funny to ruin the experience for others too. I do play some games online (Red Orchestra currently) but still would rather play racing games offline with better AI.

On Sun, 29 Oct 2006 01:01:58 GMT, Crispy Critter <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 06:49:29 +1000, Byron Forbes wrote: > > >> >> Well, my attitude is that it's about time they put more effort into >> online racing and competitions! :) > >Last time I played online racing was not a pleasant experience. I crashed >onto the inner field and some moron decided I was trying to cheat by >cutting the corner so proceded to smash up my car with his. What a fucking >idiot. I had left the track purely because someone had bumped my car from >behind. It's hard to control a Nascar when travelling at near to 200mph and >someone bumps you from behind. Online gaming is full of cheaters and people >that thinks it's funny to ruin the experience for others too. I do play >some games online (Red Orchestra currently) but still would rather play >racing games offline with better AI.

Mine is about the same with GTL. Was driving a Cortina around Donnington, turn 6 (?) the guy in front goes wide, I have a lot more speed through the corner so I go up him on the inside. He moves back right infront of me and I hit him in the A pillar and he spins infront of me (if he held his line then he would have just lost a position). He spends the next 15 minutes abusing me, how I stole the race away from him, yada yada yada. At least the AI keep quiet, even if you do intentionally punt them. :P Cheers, Rod.

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> Mine is about the same with GTL. > > Was driving a Cortina around Donnington, turn 6 (?) the guy in front > goes wide, I have a lot more speed through the corner so I go up > him on the inside. He moves back right infront of me and I hit him in > the A pillar and he spins infront of me (if he held his line then he > would have just lost a position). > > He spends the next 15 minutes abusing me, how I stole the race > away from him, yada yada yada. > > At least the AI keep quiet, even if you do intentionally punt them. :P > > Cheers, > Rod.

The biggest problem with online races in GTL especially is that the vast majority of races are too short. There is no reason to conserve tires/fuel in an 8 lap race. I prefer at the minimum a 15 lap or even better 30 or more. This way you can use pit strategy by conserving tires and possible taking one fuel only stop. I think the problem is that many of the younger racers just don't have the patience to run a longer race. Many of them also don't have a clue about basic racing manners. When someone is much faster than me (at that point....:-) I just take an outside line and brake early and let them have the prefered line and go by. Later, as tires wear, I try and get by and they block or spin me. It makes for a lot of frustration. Ed

"Ed Medlin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Qs21h.53$[email hidden]...

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>> Mine is about the same with GTL. >> >> Was driving a Cortina around Donnington, turn 6 (?) the guy in front >> goes wide, I have a lot more speed through the corner so I go up >> him on the inside. He moves back right infront of me and I hit him in >> the A pillar and he spins infront of me (if he held his line then he >> would have just lost a position). >> >> He spends the next 15 minutes abusing me, how I stole the race >> away from him, yada yada yada. >> >> At least the AI keep quiet, even if you do intentionally punt them. :P >> >> Cheers, >> Rod. > > The biggest problem with online races in GTL especially is that the vast > majority of races are too short. There is no reason to conserve tires/fuel > in an 8 lap race. I prefer at the minimum a 15 lap or even better 30 or > more. This way you can use pit strategy by conserving tires and possible > taking one fuel only stop. I think the problem is that many of the younger > racers just don't have the patience to run a longer race. Many of them > also don't have a clue about basic racing manners. When someone is much > faster than me (at that point....:-) I just take an outside line and brake > early and let them have the prefered line and go by. Later, as tires wear, > I try and get by and they block or spin me. It makes for a lot of > frustration. > > Ed >

Well, read all these posts and my point stands. Companies need to supply racelists (and maybe a few of their own servers) and have rules in place to suspend people. With replays easy to save there is nowhere for the fools to hide. Races run via this list could also have the server replays saved for even greater legitimate policing. In any case, "policing" is the key here - not just in races either - all sessions/modes.

On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 12:52:11 +1100, Byron Forbes wrote: > Well, read all these posts and my point stands. Companies need to supply > racelists (and maybe a few of their own servers) and have rules in place to > suspend people. With replays easy to save there is nowhere for the fools to > hide. Races run via this list could also have the server replays saved for > even greater legitimate policing. In any case, "policing" is the key here - > not just in races either - all sessions/modes. Policing has it's problems too. You get people accused of infractions that they never made any or were just an accident. I got kicked off a MP server for Red Orchestra just last week because I was accused of friendly kills. The fact is I never killed any friendlies, not one.

"Crispy Critter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:v2ej3bye1hso$.1hx9efq6dbcon$[email hidden]...

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> On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 12:52:11 +1100, Byron Forbes wrote: > > >> Well, read all these posts and my point stands. Companies need to >> supply >> racelists (and maybe a few of their own servers) and have rules in place >> to >> suspend people. With replays easy to save there is nowhere for the fools >> to >> hide. Races run via this list could also have the server replays saved >> for >> even greater legitimate policing. In any case, "policing" is the key >> here - >> not just in races either - all sessions/modes. > > Policing has it's problems too. You get people accused of infractions that > they never made any or were just an accident. I got kicked off a MP server > for Red Orchestra just last week because I was accused of friendly kills. > The fact is I never killed any friendlies, not one.

Well, how good the policemen are is another matter. Suspensions for improper complaints would take care of whingers too. I mainly mean idiots here - wreckers. Not the subtleties of racing incidents - that's for leagues.

Can't the wreckers simply change their name and get around an "assholes" list? If the game supplied a unique ID along with the driver's name and that is what was used it *could* work. As it is the 12 year old named "Pumpmyass" can simply change his name to "Killerboy" and all is well. The "Rank" lists can help, but exclude people (like me) that only pop on occasionally... GP

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>On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 21:11:21 +1100, "Byron Forbes" <[email hidden]> wrote: > Well, read all these posts and my point stands. Companies need to > supply > racelists (and maybe a few of their own servers) and have rules in place > to > suspend people. With replays easy to save there is nowhere for the fools > to > hide. Races run via this list could also have the server replays saved > for > even greater legitimate policing. In any case, "policing" is the key > here - > not just in races either - all sessions/modes.

Since you are clearly having a miserable time playing all racing simulators, both online and against AI, why don't you just give it up and pick up a new hobby?... Crispy Critter wrote:

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> On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 06:49:29 +1000, Byron Forbes wrote: > > > > > > Well, my attitude is that it's about time they put more effort into > > online racing and competitions! :) > > Last time I played online racing was not a pleasant experience. I crashed > onto the inner field and some moron decided I was trying to cheat by > cutting the corner so proceded to smash up my car with his. What a fucking > idiot. I had left the track purely because someone had bumped my car from > behind. It's hard to control a Nascar when travelling at near to 200mph and > someone bumps you from behind. Online gaming is full of cheaters and people > that thinks it's funny to ruin the experience for others too. I do play > some games online (Red Orchestra currently) but still would rather play > racing games offline with better AI.

Similar thing happened to me on Sierra last weekend. The 'Host' issued me a Black Flag. I never did anything at all. I asked why, and was entirely ignored the whole time. His 'partner' said he made a mistake. Too bad the guy couldn't own up to it. I lost 86 points in that race because of it. -Larry "Byron Forbes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:4545cfc4$0$4674$[email hidden]...

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>> Policing has it's problems too. You get people accused of infractions >> that >> they never made any or were just an accident. I got kicked off a MP >> server >> for Red Orchestra just last week because I was accused of friendly kills. >> The fact is I never killed any friendlies, not one. > > Well, how good the policemen are is another matter. > > Suspensions for improper complaints would take care of whingers too. > > I mainly mean idiots here - wreckers. Not the subtleties of racing > incidents - that's for leagues. >

"GaryP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Can't the wreckers simply change their name and get around an > "assholes" list? If the game supplied a unique ID along with the > driver's name and that is what was used it *could* work. As it is the > 12 year old named "Pumpmyass" can simply change his name to > "Killerboy" and all is well. The "Rank" lists can help, but exclude > people (like me) that only pop on occasionally... > > GP

Yeah, well Papy had this covered - you need the NR2003 CD to play online with it's unique code. It's that code (ie CD) that is banned and obviously any IDs connected to it.

"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:fzn1h.6154$[email hidden]...

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> Similar thing happened to me on Sierra last weekend. The 'Host' issued me > a Black Flag. I never did anything at all. > > I asked why, and was entirely ignored the whole time. > > His 'partner' said he made a mistake. > > Too bad the guy couldn't own up to it. I lost 86 points in that race > because of it. >

Yeah, I hate it when anyone has that control outside of league racing - all kinds of little Hitlers! :)

That's the sad part. He WAS a league leader. -Larry "Byron Forbes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:45467707$0$4671$[email hidden]...

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> > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:fzn1h.6154$[email hidden]... >> Similar thing happened to me on Sierra last weekend. The 'Host' issued >> me a Black Flag. I never did anything at all. >> >> I asked why, and was entirely ignored the whole time. >> >> His 'partner' said he made a mistake. >> >> Too bad the guy couldn't own up to it. I lost 86 points in that race >> because of it. >> > > Yeah, I hate it when anyone has that control outside of league racing - > all kinds of little Hitlers! :) >

On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 09:05:02 +1100, Byron Forbes wrote: > Yeah, I hate it when anyone has that control outside of league racing - > all kinds of little Hitlers! :) Oooh, this could tie into a discussion of why I don't like web forums. :)

On 30 Oct 2006 05:55:06 -0800, [email hidden] wrote: > Since you are clearly having a miserable time playing all racing > simulators, both online and against AI, why don't you just give it up > and pick up a new hobby?... Uh, no. Why don't the game developers put more effort into coding a decent AI and less into graphics? Now, why don't you take your inane comment and shove it up your arse.

Crispy Critter wrote:

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> On 30 Oct 2006 05:55:06 -0800, [email hidden] wrote: > > > Since you are clearly having a miserable time playing all racing > > simulators, both online and against AI, why don't you just give it up > > and pick up a new hobby?... > > Uh, no. Why don't the game developers put more effort into coding a decent > AI and less into graphics? Now, why don't you take your inane comment and > shove it up your arse.

Game developers realize that if they put more effort into coding AI, and less into graphics, then Crispy Critter around the globe will all cry about how their new PC racing sim doesn't look as nice as their buddy's XBox360 games... Perhaps you should switch to decaf for awhile?...

LOL - yeah, been thru that sort of thing too! :) "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:qxv1h.19633$[email hidden]...

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> That's the sad part. He WAS a league leader. > > -Larry > > "Byron Forbes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:45467707$0$4671$[email hidden]... >> >> "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> news:fzn1h.6154$[email hidden]... >>> Similar thing happened to me on Sierra last weekend. The 'Host' issued >>> me a Black Flag. I never did anything at all. >>> >>> I asked why, and was entirely ignored the whole time. >>> >>> His 'partner' said he made a mistake. >>> >>> Too bad the guy couldn't own up to it. I lost 86 points in that race >>> because of it. >>> >> >> Yeah, I hate it when anyone has that control outside of league >> racing - all kinds of little Hitlers! :) >> > >

"Crispy Critter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:1ojj01nrfh0tf$[email hidden]...

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> On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 09:05:02 +1100, Byron Forbes wrote: > > >> Yeah, I hate it when anyone has that control outside of league >> racing - >> all kinds of little Hitlers! :) > > Oooh, this could tie into a discussion of why I don't like web forums. :)

Yep, same thing. :) If you're not a clone of the moderator............................................... Normally run by party pooping character killers.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > Crispy Critter wrote: >> On 30 Oct 2006 05:55:06 -0800, [email hidden] wrote: >> >> > Since you are clearly having a miserable time playing all racing >> > simulators, both online and against AI, why don't you just give it up >> > and pick up a new hobby?... >> >> Uh, no. Why don't the game developers put more effort into coding a >> decent >> AI and less into graphics? Now, why don't you take your inane comment and >> shove it up your arse. > > Game developers realize that if they put more effort into coding AI, > and less into graphics, then Crispy Critter around the globe will all > cry about how their new PC racing sim doesn't look as nice as their > buddy's XBox360 games... > > Perhaps you should switch to decaf for awhile?... >

You would think that by this stage of the evolution of sims that some decent AI code would be around by now and easily implemented (and maybe even improved upon each time) into new sims. Having said that, this is greatly subjective. In the opinion of some, various sim AI might be arguably perfect. In any case, in my experience with AI it is a matter of getting to know it and dealing with it - as is the case irl actually. :)

On 31 Oct 2006 05:33:08 -0800, [email hidden] wrote: > Perhaps you should switch to decaf for awhile?... Decaf is for pussies such as yourself.

On Wed, 1 Nov 2006 09:26:52 +1100, Byron Forbes wrote: > In any case, in my experience with > AI it is a matter of getting to know it and dealing with it - as is the case > irl actually. :) You're right, I'll drive on the outside of the track from now on and stay off the optimal line because the AI doesn't like me driving there. :)

"Crispy Critter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:w72e5wz5ot0m.82asschw59qs$[email hidden]...

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> On Wed, 1 Nov 2006 09:26:52 +1100, Byron Forbes wrote: > >> In any case, in my experience with >> AI it is a matter of getting to know it and dealing with it - as is the >> case >> irl actually. :) > > You're right, I'll drive on the outside of the track from now on and stay > off the optimal line because the AI doesn't like me driving there. :)

LOL. Ok, more seriously, is that on an original track or an aftermarket one? GTL was the sim btw, right?

Crispy Critter wrote: > On 31 Oct 2006 05:33:08 -0800, [email hidden] wrote: > > > > Perhaps you should switch to decaf for awhile?... > > Decaf is for pussies such as yourself. Don't confuse what I eat with what I am!

On Wed, 1 Nov 2006 20:15:29 +1100, Byron Forbes wrote: > > Ok, more seriously, is that on an original track or an aftermarket one? > GTL was the sim btw, right? No, it was ageneral comment about most racing sims. It was in F1 '99-02' where I gave an example (no add-on tracks). Still, I shouldn't comlain too much as all my favourite sims have much better AI than that last F1 sim Ubisoft put out. I have that one too but haven't touched it in years because the AI is so poor.

On 1 Nov 2006 06:07:21 -0800, [email hidden] wrote: > Don't confuse what I eat with what I am! As they say, "in with shit, out with shit". You are what you eat.