Why is Race getting bad reviews?

I spent last evening with it and I think it's great. If you like GTR2 how could you dislike Race? Not sure if it's because of the smaller cars but the *feel* is terrific. One other thing I did differently was used the TrackIR with Race and I don't normally with GTR2. I think that will change though. I would have preferred an online demo but I was really having fun against myself in the ghost car. Mitch

Mitch_A wrote:

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> I spent last evening with it and I think it's great. If you like GTR2 how > could you dislike Race? Not sure if it's because of the smaller cars but > the *feel* is terrific. One other thing I did differently was used the > TrackIR with Race and I don't normally with GTR2. I think that will change > though. > > I would have preferred an online demo but I was really having fun against > myself in the ghost car.

I think the demo is terrible. Time trial mode is maybe the only mode I have absolutely no interest in, and have never even touched in GTR2. The track that's included is unfinished. The default setups are horrible, and gave me a bad first impression of the physics. The default.cam and plr files are encrypted. The sound is mediocre at best. After tweaking a few things I don't think the physics are particularly bad, and I'm more than likely going to import the final product, but it's not a very good demo. Most of the serious simracers (and sim developers) I converse with on a regular basis didn't even bother finishing a lap before uninstalling it, but I tend to think that's more down to seriously bizarre setups (11 degrees of caster? I can only assume that was a flawed attempt at fixing the problems with the rest of the setups) than the actual physics model.

"jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Mitch_A wrote: > >> I spent last evening with it and I think it's great. If you like GTR2 >> how >> could you dislike Race? Not sure if it's because of the smaller cars but >> the *feel* is terrific. One other thing I did differently was used the >> TrackIR with Race and I don't normally with GTR2. I think that will >> change >> though. >> >> I would have preferred an online demo but I was really having fun against >> myself in the ghost car. > > I think the demo is terrible. Time trial mode is maybe the only mode I > have absolutely no interest in, and have never even touched in GTR2. > The track that's included is unfinished. The default setups are > horrible, and gave me a bad first impression of the physics. The > default.cam and plr files are encrypted. The sound is mediocre at > best. > > After tweaking a few things I don't think the physics are particularly > bad, and I'm more than likely going to import the final product, but > it's not a very good demo. Most of the serious simracers (and sim > developers) I converse with on a regular basis didn't even bother > finishing a lap before uninstalling it, but I tend to think that's more > down to seriously bizarre setups (11 degrees of caster? I can only > assume that was a flawed attempt at fixing the problems with the rest > of the setups) than the actual physics model.

I agree completely with Jason. What could be a very good game is going to turn some people off with the poorest excuse for a demo I've seen in a long time. MILO >

Milo Johnson wrote: > I agree completely with Jason. What could be a very good game is going to > turn some people off with the poorest excuse for a demo I've seen in a long > time. And I agree with Milo ;) I don't rule out getting Race someday, but I probably won't be an early buyer - waiting from some user reports from the finished product first. Mr. S.

Mr. Sylvestre wrote:

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> Milo Johnson wrote: >> I agree completely with Jason. What could be a very good game is going >> to turn some people off with the poorest excuse for a demo I've seen >> in a long time. > > And I agree with Milo ;) > > I don't rule out getting Race someday, but I probably won't be an early > buyer - waiting from some user reports from the finished product first.

Same here. Unlike Mitch it is the lack of feel that I dislike most. It feels somehow disconnected. I have tried following the tweaking suggestions with little success. The whole presentation feels weak to me. Perhaps the full version will be better but there isn't much time for changes. In contrast I tried the new ETCC03 mod for rFactor and this felt much better, plus the car models look more realistic IMHO. This looks more likely to provide my touring car fix right now! I guess it goes to show how subjective these things can be yet RACE seems a poor sister product to GTR2 based on this demo. Cheers Tony

Tony Rickard wrote:

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> Mr. Sylvestre wrote: >> Milo Johnson wrote: >>> I agree completely with Jason. What could be a very good game is >>> going to turn some people off with the poorest excuse for a demo I've >>> seen in a long time. >> >> And I agree with Milo ;) >> >> I don't rule out getting Race someday, but I probably won't be an >> early buyer - waiting from some user reports from the finished product >> first. > > Same here. Unlike Mitch it is the lack of feel that I dislike most. It > feels somehow disconnected. I have tried following the tweaking > suggestions with little success. The whole presentation feels weak to > me. Perhaps the full version will be better but there isn't much time > for changes. > > In contrast I tried the new ETCC03 mod for rFactor and this felt much > better, plus the car models look more realistic IMHO. This looks more > likely to provide my touring car fix right now! > > I guess it goes to show how subjective these things can be yet RACE > seems a poor sister product to GTR2 based on this demo. > > Cheers > Tony

WATCH OUT GUYS HE WILL CALL YOU LIBERALS!

timmy thompson wrote: > WATCH OUT GUYS HE WILL CALL YOU LIBERALS! Haven't you found a better god damned place to troll yet?

This is a common issue I've had with every ISI based game. Some worse than others. The feeling you are above the surfact of the track, and any traction you get is phoney and deceiving. -Larry "Tony Rickard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:zkM2h.46540$[email hidden]... > Same here. Unlike Mitch it is the lack of feel that I dislike most. It > feels somehow disconnected. I have tried following the tweaking > suggestions with little success. The whole presentation feels weak to me. > Perhaps the full version will be better but there isn't much time for > changes.

I don't have that problem since SCGT :) GTR had some low speed issues but since rF I can smell/feel the sticky rubber/asphalt as I drive em around. GTR2 best yet IMO. Even the slightest setup change and I can feel it. It takes a few laps to get everything up to temp and some hot lappers have problems in that respect :) Mitch "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:lDS2h.36033$[email hidden]... > This is a common issue I've had with every ISI based game. Some worse > than others. The feeling you are above the surfact of the track, and any > traction you get is phoney and deceiving. > > -Larry

We will just have to disagree then Tony :) Not the first time eh? On your suggestion here I d/l'd ETCC03 1.11 and I must say its a very nice mod but not nearly the caliber of the Race Demo. ETCC feels like Im running on glass behind a singer sewing machine :) While the Race Demo is very limited and seems an early build it at least conveys to me that Im driving an actual Race Car witha real suspension on a race track with elevation. On the looks side Id say either is more than adequate for me its the physics I want :) Oh well I do hope they a good job on th eAI in Race :) I could also make the case Race will be better for use in a league for the simple fact Race encrypts many of the files that some take unfair advantage of in online races. Beyond that it would also eliminate the rFactor car/track Dance that we must do just about every weekend to race. Mitch "Tony Rickard"

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> Same here. Unlike Mitch it is the lack of feel that I dislike most. It > feels somehow disconnected. I have tried following the tweaking > suggestions with little success. The whole presentation feels weak to me. > Perhaps the full version will be better but there isn't much time for > changes. > > In contrast I tried the new ETCC03 mod for rFactor and this felt much > better, plus the car models look more realistic IMHO. This looks more > likely to provide my touring car fix right now! > > I guess it goes to show how subjective these things can be yet RACE seems > a poor sister product to GTR2 based on this demo. > > Cheers > Tony

Mitch_A wrote: > We will just have to disagree then Tony :) Not the first time eh? Absolutely! It is the finding out why someone likes something that really matters though. With our finicky PC setups it isn't always down to just personal preference but can be an entry in an ini file or something that makes the key difference.

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> On your suggestion here I d/l'd ETCC03 1.11 and I must say its a very nice > mod but not nearly the caliber of the Race Demo. ETCC feels like Im running > on glass behind a singer sewing machine :) While the Race Demo is very > limited and seems an early build it at least conveys to me that Im driving > an actual Race Car witha real suspension on a race track with elevation. On > the looks side Id say either is more than adequate for me its the physics I > want :)

Which is the complete opposite for me. Like I said above maybe there is something different with my setup. rFactor has been on my machine a long time, so no doubt I have added FFB tweaks, found the perfect FOV, graphics settings etc. The ETCC03 1.1 mod feels well connected to the road, whereas RACE just feels like an older sim (a bit like the DICE STCC sim). Not just in feel but in graphics style. I am not going to insult anyone by saying it is arcade but it feels more like a computer game to me than conveying a sense of being in a car. It seems almost impossible to me that this should be the case and something must be wrong with my setup, but I don't seem to be alone with the view. > Oh well I do hope they a good job on th eAI in Race :) The GTR2 AI seems pretty good so I would hope so. > I could also make the case Race will be better for use in a league for the > simple fact Race encrypts many of the files that some take unfair advantage > of in online races. Beyond that it would also eliminate the rFactor > car/track Dance that we must do just about every weekend to race. We will need to see how good the netcode is. rFactor still seems king at the moment. Cheers Tony

How much time did you invest in the Race demo? I say this because like you the first 1/2 hour or so (pre-tweaking) I also was a bit disappointed. It wasnt till I came back to it a second time w/tweaks in hand and really focused on just turning laps for a couple hours that I found the groove. I must say this effort paid off as it really did the trick in swaying me to Race. Between GTR2 and Race its almost sad for me in a way because all of a sudden rFactor/mods seem almost dated/sharewareish :) That and so many of the mods/converted tracks just plain suck. I feel like a guinea pig for all of these folks that hone their modeling/graphics skills with these mods and as soon as they get good enough they go commercial. I wouldnt go get a free haircut from a trainee either, but hey thats me :) A nice shiny sim on an old converted crap track does not a sim make IMHO :) Mitch "Tony Rickard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:T%Z2h.46843$[email hidden]...

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> Mitch_A wrote: >> We will just have to disagree then Tony :) Not the first time eh? > > Absolutely! It is the finding out why someone likes something that really > matters though. With our finicky PC setups it isn't always down to just > personal preference but can be an entry in an ini file or something that > makes the key difference. > >> On your suggestion here I d/l'd ETCC03 1.11 and I must say its a very >> nice mod but not nearly the caliber of the Race Demo. ETCC feels like Im >> running on glass behind a singer sewing machine :) While the Race Demo >> is very limited and seems an early build it at least conveys to me that >> Im driving an actual Race Car witha real suspension on a race track with >> elevation. On the looks side Id say either is more than adequate for me >> its the physics I want :) > > Which is the complete opposite for me. Like I said above maybe there is > something different with my setup. rFactor has been on my machine a long > time, so no doubt I have added FFB tweaks, found the perfect FOV, graphics > settings etc. The ETCC03 1.1 mod feels well connected to the road, whereas > RACE just feels like an older sim (a bit like the DICE STCC sim). Not just > in feel but in graphics style. I am not going to insult anyone by saying > it is arcade but it feels more like a computer game to me than conveying a > sense of being in a car. > > It seems almost impossible to me that this should be the case and > something must be wrong with my setup, but I don't seem to be alone with > the view. > >> Oh well I do hope they a good job on th eAI in Race :) > > The GTR2 AI seems pretty good so I would hope so. > >> I could also make the case Race will be better for use in a league for >> the simple fact Race encrypts many of the files that some take unfair >> advantage of in online races. Beyond that it would also eliminate the >> rFactor car/track Dance that we must do just about every weekend to race. > > We will need to see how good the netcode is. rFactor still seems king at > the moment. > > Cheers > Tony

Mitch_A wrote: > How much time did you invest in the Race demo? I say this because like you > the first 1/2 hour or so (pre-tweaking) I also was a bit disappointed. It > wasnt till I came back to it a second time w/tweaks in hand and really > focused on just turning laps for a couple hours that I found the groove. I > must say this effort paid off as it really did the trick in swaying me to > Race. A fair effort. Today I managed to copy my FFB settings from GTR2 (I downloaded a set for my DFP) and created a new FF entry for RACE (it isn't in the PLR file). It improved things but I still find the ETCC03 mod for rFactor a more immersive drive. Not just the feel but the look of the cars and tracks too. The cars look a bit toy like in RACE for me, plus the track textures (very black) I am less keen on. The sound maybe similar to what the guys hear with a helmet on, but I am prepared to sacrifice some realism for a more raunchy sound. > Between GTR2 and Race its almost sad for me in a way because all of a > sudden rFactor/mods seem almost dated/sharewareish :) I believe rFactor has really come of age recently. The concept of "amateur" modding groups using rFactor as a base has certainly created some variable quality mods. Yet recently we have seen some excellent ones. I personally find it incredible the amount of time & effort the modding groups put in, such that the level of perfectionism is greater than any commercial outfit can afford to do. It has taken time for the great mods to come through but we are seeing them now. The others will simply disappear from the online servers. > That and so many of the mods/converted tracks just plain suck. I feel like > a guinea pig for all of these folks that hone their modeling/graphics skills > with these mods and as soon as they get good enough they go commercial. I > wouldnt go get a free haircut from a trainee either, but hey thats me :) A > nice shiny sim on an old converted crap track does not a sim make IMHO :) I tend to use rfactorcentral (www.rfactorcentral.com) to help decide if a mod is worth downloading. If you don't want to feel like a guinea pig waiting for the feedback scores on that site can be a useful guide. There are plenty of very good modding teams doing it as a pure passion. rFactor spent a long time unused on my hard disk, but now is on a level with the community mods to the fully featured commercial offerings. The poll on RSC is almost exactly split between GTR2 and rFactor showing it is very much down to personal preference. Cheers Tony

Mitch_A wrote: > GTR2 best yet IMO. Even the slightest setup change and I can feel it. Exactly. That is why I enjoy GTR2 so much now. TBH, a few rF mods come close to that GTR2 feel, the ETCC mod being a good example. Also the new F430 mod physics feel right (I mean, well connected to the track and settings, I am less sure about the accuracy w.r.t. the modelled road car but it's fun to drive anyway). For me, it is really a tie between rF and GTR2 currently - especially given the fact that only rF does model open wheelers at this time. I hope the best for Race, it's just that demo doesn't cut it for me right now. As Tony wrote, this might come down to tweaks, hardware or just personal preference. Regards, Mr. S.

One thing I hadnt considered. Ive been running Barcelona for the past few days in GTR2 and the Barcelona in rFactor is a very poor quality conversion (like running on glass). Later Im going to grab Toban for GTR2 for a more accurate comparison of the sims and not the tracks. Mitch "Tony Rickard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:p_43h.47042$[email hidden]...

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> Mitch_A wrote: >> How much time did you invest in the Race demo? I say this because like >> you the first 1/2 hour or so (pre-tweaking) I also was a bit >> disappointed. It wasnt till I came back to it a second time w/tweaks in >> hand and really focused on just turning laps for a couple hours that I >> found the groove. I must say this effort paid off as it really did the >> trick in swaying me to Race. > > A fair effort. Today I managed to copy my FFB settings from GTR2 (I > downloaded a set for my DFP) and created a new FF entry for RACE (it > isn't in the PLR file). > > It improved things but I still find the ETCC03 mod for rFactor a more > immersive drive. Not just the feel but the look of the cars and tracks > too. The cars look a bit toy like in RACE for me, plus the track textures > (very black) I am less keen on. The sound maybe similar to what the guys > hear with a helmet on, but I am prepared to sacrifice some realism for a > more raunchy sound. > >> Between GTR2 and Race its almost sad for me in a way because all of a >> sudden rFactor/mods seem almost dated/sharewareish :) > > I believe rFactor has really come of age recently. The concept of > "amateur" modding groups using rFactor as a base has certainly created > some variable quality mods. Yet recently we have seen some excellent ones. > I personally find it incredible the amount of time & effort the modding > groups put in, such that the level of perfectionism is greater than any > commercial outfit can afford to do. It has taken time for the great mods > to come through but we are seeing them now. The others will simply > disappear from the online servers. > >> That and so many of the mods/converted tracks just plain suck. I feel >> like a guinea pig for all of these folks that hone their >> modeling/graphics skills with these mods and as soon as they get good >> enough they go commercial. I wouldnt go get a free haircut from a >> trainee either, but hey thats me :) A nice shiny sim on an old >> converted crap track does not a sim make IMHO :) > > I tend to use rfactorcentral (www.rfactorcentral.com) to help decide if a > mod is worth downloading. If you don't want to feel like a guinea pig > waiting for the feedback scores on that site can be a useful guide. > > There are plenty of very good modding teams doing it as a pure passion. > rFactor spent a long time unused on my hard disk, but now is on a level > with the community mods to the fully featured commercial offerings. The > poll on RSC is almost exactly split between GTR2 and rFactor showing it is > very much down to personal preference. > > Cheers > Tony

Mitch_A wrote: > One thing I hadnt considered. Ive been running Barcelona for the past few > days in GTR2 and the Barcelona in rFactor is a very poor quality conversion > (like running on glass). Later Im going to grab Toban for GTR2 for a more > accurate comparison of the sims and not the tracks. I decided to give RACE another go. I generally run a low FOV but tried a higher FOV than default and moved the seat forward. This transformed the feel which I find quite bizarre. With rFactor and GTR2 I can run as low a FOV as I can get away with and view the dash, as I find it gives a more immersive view of the track plus I am running widescreen. With RACE I needed a much higher FOV but the track looked ok. I wonder if the demo defaults to an ultra low FOV? Anyway, changing this got rid of the nasty floaty feeling and weird movement of the car to steering inputs. I still don't like the textures as much as GTR2 and the cars don't look as good as the ETCC rFactor models but then it may be down the the horrid colour schemes of the demo cars! I am sure my beloved Alfa 156 will look lovely :) The sound of the SEAT is much more sport sounding than the BMW which is drowned by transmission whine - which may well be true to life but I don't like it. After driving the ETCC mod for a bit I have quite got into FWD sim race cars. ETCC & RACE seems to have got it right for the first time in my view. At least both have the BMW for those that abhor FWDs! Cheers Tony