Re: GPL - maximum speed

>does someone give me some generic tips for reaching the maximun speed >in tracks such as milano or reims? >tx in advance >bye > > Stiff suspension, high tire pressures, low amounts of toe-in, and tall gears basically. ----------------------------------------- Dan Belcher Webmaster, http://simcrash.fameflame.dk

Also: minimum camber thrust. "Dan Belcher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> >does someone give me some generic tips for reaching the maximun speed > >in tracks such as milano or reims? > >tx in advance > >bye > > > > > > Stiff suspension, high tire pressures, low amounts of toe-in, and tall

gears > basically. > > ----------------------------------------- > Dan Belcher > Webmaster, > http://simcrash.fameflame.dk

>"oppolo" <[email hidden]> wrote > does someone give me some generic tips for reaching the maximun speed > in tracks such as milano or reims? > tx in advance Ahhhhhhh, the good old days of speed records at the Smogbank... that is, until everything started again with the Honda/Brabham chassis :-) -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://ymenard.cjb.net/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

2 schools of thought: Run a lot of camber and very high TPs and ride on the inner edge of the tire, or Run 0 dynamic camber and very high TPs and ride on the center of the tread. I prefer the latter. "oppolo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Mon, 23 Dec 2002 03:37:00 GMT, "Steve Smith" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Also: minimum camber thrust. > > must temp tyres be the same in and out? and naturally very high in > the middle? > regards >

Endless arguments here. I've found (in tests @ Kya) that a lot of toe *does* affect the Vmax, but plenty of people disagree. "oppolo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On 23 Dec 2002 01:45:05 GMT, [email hidden] (Dan Belcher) wrote: > > >Stiff suspension, high tire pressures, low amounts of toe-in, and tallgears > > toe-in doesn't effect the speed in GPL,it's a lack of reality in > GPL.....ok for the others > regards >

"ymenard" <[email hidden]> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:zmAN9.657$[email hidden]... > >"oppolo" <[email hidden]> wrote > > does someone give me some generic tips for reaching the maximunspeed > > in tracks such as milano or reims? > > tx in advance > > > Smogbank... that is,until everything started again with theHonda/Brabham chassis :-) ...which has been a helluva fun, too. ;-) Regards Crash

What do you consider a lot? I generally don't use more than 0.125 in., but I have seen certain Finnish people using as much as 0.3 in. At what point do you really start to lose top speed? "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:2ODN9.3587$[email hidden]... > Endless arguments here. I've found (in tests @ Kya) that a lot of toe > *does* affect the Vmax, but plenty of people disagree. >

The Q was in re Vmax, not lat. acc.. "oppolo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Mon, 23 Dec 2002 12:59:39 GMT, "Steve Smith" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Run a lot of camber and very high TPs and ride on the inner edge of the > >tire, or > > > >Run 0 dynamic camber and very high TPs and ride on the center of the

tread. > > > >I prefer the latter. > > uhmm...shouldn't the first be better in turns? > regards >

Haq, You're a stand-up guy; try the test yerself. I used Kya, but I suppose a better test would be Le Mans or Reims (neither were avail when I did this, altho Avus was - I just didn't care for it). Nothing much happened until you got abt. .125-in. into the pgm. I tried it all the way up to .500 in. (which is what some enduro cars were using in the 70s & 80s, in front, neg., with spool axles, to try to counter the u'steer). Splayed like that, I was losing 3-5 mph off the top end. --Steve "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:au7ica$53s59$[email hidden]...

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> What do you consider a lot? I generally don't use more than 0.125 in., > but I have seen certain Finnish people using as much as 0.3 in. At what > point do you really start to lose top speed? > > > "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:2ODN9.3587$[email hidden]... > > Endless arguments here. I've found (in tests @ Kya) that a lot of toe > > *does* affect the Vmax, but plenty of people disagree. > > >

"Haqsau" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht news:au7ica$53s59$[email hidden]... > At what point do you really start to lose top speed? At no point at all really. Take an F3 to Talladega (or some such track where you can run Vmax all day) and you get identical top speeds for zero toe-in and max toe-in. Bye, Leo

Well since I have not yet found the need for more than 0.125 toe out in front or 0.125 toe in at the rear I see no reason not to just believe you. Okay the real reason is it's the holidays and I'm feeling lazy. Anyway, why should I doubt you, you wrote the freaking book! ;o) Oh well, maybe when I get a little more time and energy I will try some testing at Spa. If it shows up anywhere, it ought to show up there. "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:NmKN9.119728$[email hidden]... > Haq, > > You're a stand-up guy; try the test yerself. I used Kya, but Isuppose a > better test would be Le Mans or Reims (neither were avail when I didthis, > altho Avus was - I just didn't care for it). Nothing much happeneduntil > you got abt. .125-in. into the pgm. I tried it all the way up to .500in. > (which is what some enduro cars were using in the 70s & 80s, in front,neg., > with spool axles, to try to counter the u'steer). Splayed like that,I was > losing 3-5 mph off the top end. > > --Steve >

F3's have different tire characteristics though, don't they? Plus I would think you would get nowhere near the same top speed with an F3. Oh well, almost every time I have gone past 0.125 the handling gets too unstable for me anyway, so as long as there is no penalty for 0.125 I guess I don't need to be concerned. "Leo Landman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:au892h$t14$[email hidden]... > > At no point at all really. Take an F3 to Talladega (or some such trackwhere > you can run Vmax all day) and you get identical top speeds for zerotoe-in > and max toe-in. > > Bye, > Leo > >

Mmmmm, I don't think Spa is The Test. Going down the hill, well, it's downhill. And going up the hill, well.... Ditto Riverside (at least going down the back stretch). I'd try Reims or Le Mans. "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:au8nv2$5c7ab$[email hidden]...

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> Well since I have not yet found the need for more than 0.125 toe out in > front or 0.125 toe in at the rear I see no reason not to just believe > you. Okay the real reason is it's the holidays and I'm feeling lazy. > Anyway, why should I doubt you, you wrote the freaking book! ;o) Oh > well, maybe when I get a little more time and energy I will try some > testing at Spa. If it shows up anywhere, it ought to show up there. > > "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:NmKN9.119728$[email hidden]... > > Haq, > > > > You're a stand-up guy; try the test yerself. I used Kya, but I > suppose a > > better test would be Le Mans or Reims (neither were avail when I did > this, > > altho Avus was - I just didn't care for it). Nothing much happened > until > > you got abt. .125-in. into the pgm. I tried it all the way up to .500 > in. > > (which is what some enduro cars were using in the 70s & 80s, in front, > neg., > > with spool axles, to try to counter the u'steer). Splayed like that, > I was > > losing 3-5 mph off the top end. > > > > --Steve > > >

You can run flat out at Tally all day...but not at the Vmax, which takes a longer to achieve than the stretch between T2 & T3. "Leo Landman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:au892h$t14$[email hidden]...

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> > "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht > news:au7ica$53s59$[email hidden]... > > > At what point do you really start to lose top speed? > > At no point at all really. Take an F3 to Talladega (or some such track

where

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> you can run Vmax all day) and you get identical top speeds for zero toe-in > and max toe-in. > > Bye, > Leo > >

Actually if we really wanted to prove this out the right way to do it is not with a top speed test but with a coast down test. Top speed tests won't be reliable if you don't change the gearing, plus they are influenced by how well you came out of the previous corner, or in the case of Kyalami, how well the car handles through the kink. A coast down test would get rid of these variables. You would need a track with a long flat straight, like Monza perhaps. Accelerate up to the start/finish line, then cut the throttle and put the clutch in (to eliminate the engine braking effect) and let it coast down to zero. To be accurate you would have to analyze this in GPLRA or something similar, so the person should then start the car up and complete the lap so that the replay can be loaded into GPLRA. Then in GPLRA in the speed vs. distance graph pick out the time it takes to coast from one speed to another. The longer the time, the less the rolling resistance. You would have to pick an initial speed that is less than your s/f speed in order to be consistent, say 150 mph. Or go even lower to reduce the influence of aero and increase the resolution. Also you would not want to time it all the way to zero, again for consistency. For example compare the time it takes to go from 60 mph down to 10 mph. I don't know whether the replays really have enough resolution to be able to see the differences that we are talking about, but ideally this is the best way to sort out differences in rollling resistance from one setup to another. Maybe someone else with a little time on their hands can try this out. "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:l4%N9.125051$[email hidden]... > Mmmmm, I don't think Spa is The Test. Going down the hill, well, it's > downhill. And going up the hill, well.... Ditto Riverside (at leastgoing > down the back stretch). I'd try Reims or Le Mans. >

Yer right. Pls post results...when U gottem! "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:aua4s0$5cgp5$[email hidden]...

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> Actually if we really wanted to prove this out the right way to do it is > not with a top speed test but with a coast down test. Top speed tests > won't be reliable if you don't change the gearing, plus they are > influenced by how well you came out of the previous corner, or in the > case of Kyalami, how well the car handles through the kink. A coast > down test would get rid of these variables. You would need a track with > a long flat straight, like Monza perhaps. Accelerate up to the > start/finish line, then cut the throttle and put the clutch in (to > eliminate the engine braking effect) and let it coast down to zero. To > be accurate you would have to analyze this in GPLRA or something > similar, so the person should then start the car up and complete the lap > so that the replay can be loaded into GPLRA. Then in GPLRA in the speed > vs. distance graph pick out the time it takes to coast from one speed to > another. The longer the time, the less the rolling resistance. You > would have to pick an initial speed that is less than your s/f speed in > order to be consistent, say 150 mph. Or go even lower to reduce the > influence of aero and increase the resolution. Also you would not want > to time it all the way to zero, again for consistency. For example > compare the time it takes to go from 60 mph down to 10 mph. I don't > know whether the replays really have enough resolution to be able to see > the differences that we are talking about, but ideally this is the best > way to sort out differences in rollling resistance from one setup to > another. Maybe someone else with a little time on their hands can try > this out. > > > "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:l4%N9.125051$[email hidden]... > > Mmmmm, I don't think Spa is The Test. Going down the hill, well, it's > > downhill. And going up the hill, well.... Ditto Riverside (at least > going > > down the back stretch). I'd try Reims or Le Mans. > > >

'Ticularly w. a F3...as Haqsau points out. "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:R5%N9.125072$[email hidden]...

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> You can run flat out at Tally all day...but not at the Vmax, which takes a > longer to achieve than the stretch between T2 & T3. > > "Leo Landman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:au892h$t14$[email hidden]... > > > > "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht > > news:au7ica$53s59$[email hidden]... > > > > > At what point do you really start to lose top speed? > > > > At no point at all really. Take an F3 to Talladega (or some such track > where > > you can run Vmax all day) and you get identical top speeds for zero

toe-in

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> > and max toe-in. > > > > Bye, > > Leo > > > > > >

Er, yeah. A perfectly reasonable request, but I don't know when I will have the time. I was hoping my post would tempt some youngster with a lot of time on his hands into trying it. If not, maybe after the holidays I will have time. "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:sQ0O9.8622$[email hidden]... > Yer right. Pls post results...when U gottem! >

"Haqsau" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht news:au8o6j$4rdjg$[email hidden]... > F3's have different tire characteristics though, don't they? Possibly yes, I don't know. But toe-in and -out are the same... > would think you would get nowhere near the same top speed with an F3. Of course not, but with a weak engine like that, the differences would show up even earlier, I'd say. Anyway, some of my F1 setups have max toe-in and toe-out and I've never found a significant slow down in speed, there's just a difference in handling. Bye, Leo

"Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht news:l4%N9.125051$[email hidden]... > Mmmmm, I don't think Spa is The Test. Going down the hill, well, it's > downhill. And going up the hill, well.... Ditto Riverside (at leastgoing > down the back stretch). I'd try Reims or Le Mans. Milano would probably be the easiest place to test this. Bye, Leo

Well here's an odd one for you... today I took a look at some Monza F1 Eagle setups I had been using, both were very similar but one was consistently about 2 mph faster on the straights. The tire pressures were the same, camber the same, gearing the same... the only two differences were that the faster one had 30/30/4 (power/coast/#) in the diff compared to 60/45/2 on the slower one, and the faster one had 0.125 in. toe out in front and 0.125 in. toe in in the rear, whereas the slower one had 0.125 in. toe out in front and 0.100 in. toe in in the rear. I don't think the diff settings mean squat for top speed, so that implies that the setup with LESS toe in at the rear was SLOWER. Weird, huh? "Leo Landman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:auakpq$dda$[email hidden]... > > Of course not, but with a weak engine like that, the differences wouldshow > up even earlier, I'd say. > Anyway, some of my F1 setups have max toe-in and toe-out and I'venever

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> found a significant slow down in speed, there's just a difference in > handling. > > Bye, > Leo > >

"Haqsau" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht news:aubn96$5u2br$[email hidden]... > I don't think the diff settings mean squat for top speed, so that > implies that the setup with LESS toe in at the rear was SLOWER. Weird, > huh? I think it's not the toe-in but diff settings after all. Your rate of acceleration varies with different diffs and may well explain the higer top speed IMO. Do another test :-) Bye, Leo

Haven't nailed it down conclusively yet but I think you are right. Changing toe settings back didn't seem to do it. Odd that diff settings would affect straightaway speed though. I literally have laps where the corner exits are the same but the setting with the tighter diff pulled away above 150 mph or so. The diff shouldn't be doing a darn thing when you are going in a straight line. "Leo Landman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:auft4h$rvu$[email hidden]... > > > I think it's not the toe-in but diff settings after all. Your rate of > acceleration varies with different diffs and may well explain thehiger top

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> speed IMO. Do another test :-) > > Bye, > Leo > > >

"Haqsau" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht news:aufu0q$70164$[email hidden]... > The diff shouldn't be doing a darn thing when > you are going in a straight line. Agreed, but a straight line hardly exists, you're always wandering a bit. Apparently GPL takes all those little moves into account. Anyway, that's my guess to explain the different top speeds with different diff settings. Bye, Leo

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>"Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote > Actually if we really wanted to prove this out the right way to do it is > not with a top speed test but with a coast down test. Top speed tests > won't be reliable if you don't change the gearing, plus they are > influenced by how well you came out of the previous corner, or in the > case of Kyalami, how well the car handles through the kink. A coast > down test would get rid of these variables. You would need a track with > a long flat straight, like Monza perhaps.

Hmm, that's why I said SMOGBANK exist. There's been extensive testing of this like 2 years ago. It was the craze :) -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://ymenard.cjb.net/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...