Wheels that turn several times?

Are there any racing wheels that turn several times lock to lock? Like ones with a 720 degree turning radius? I haven't seen them at all in the past, and it's extremely easy to implement. If no one has done it, I'll try modifying my one normal (non-FF) wheel to make it turn 720 degrees total. Thanks, Alex

Alex Kihurani wrote: > > Are there any racing wheels that turn several times lock to lock? Like ones > with a 720 degree turning radius? I haven't seen them at all in the past, > and it's extremely easy to implement. If no one has done it, I'll try > modifying my one normal (non-FF) wheel to make it turn 720 degrees total. I'm currently working on an idea for one myself Alex, and it's actually very easy indeed as you say, I just don't have the time to get the mechanical bits sorted right now, but I've got it all figured out in my head :-) Grew tired of the unrealistic 210 degree movement of my current setup, not quite sure if I'll aim for a full 720, I'll probably go for 540(ish) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

Goy, is the e-mail address you have listed your real one? I want to contact you off-list. Thanks, Alex "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > Alex Kihurani wrote: > > > > Are there any racing wheels that turn several times lock to lock? Likeones > > with a 720 degree turning radius? I haven't seen them at all in thepast, > > and it's extremely easy to implement. If no one has done it, I'll try > > modifying my one normal (non-FF) wheel to make it turn 720 degreestotal.

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> > I'm currently working on an idea for one myself Alex, and it's actually > very easy indeed as you say, I just don't have the time to get the > mechanical bits sorted right now, but I've got it all figured out in my > head :-) > > Grew tired of the unrealistic 210 degree movement of my current setup, > not quite sure if I'll aim for a full 720, I'll probably go for 540(ish) > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > http://www.theuspits.com > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" > --Groucho Marx--

I thought about doing the same thing actually. Seems like it'd be easiest if you started from scratch making your own wheel, instead of trying to add some sort of gearing to an existing wheel. I'd really like to see it for games like Live For Speed, where the cars would actually have a few full rotations of wheel travel. Having a gear ratio of 2:1 on a regular wheel seems like it would give you the perfect travel for say WRC type cars, or maybe even GT cars (even though I'm not familiar with the actual setup of those). Also, having to crank the wheel around a few solid times would be perfect for things like Rally Trophy :) Mike http://mikebeauchamp.com "Alex Kihurani" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:zioQ9.34471$[email hidden]... > Goy, is the e-mail address you have listed your real one? I want tocontact

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> you off-list. > > Thanks, > Alex > "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > Alex Kihurani wrote: > > > > > > Are there any racing wheels that turn several times lock to lock? Like > ones > > > with a 720 degree turning radius? I haven't seen them at all in the > past, > > > and it's extremely easy to implement. If no one has done it, I'll try > > > modifying my one normal (non-FF) wheel to make it turn 720 degrees > total. > > > > I'm currently working on an idea for one myself Alex, and it's actually > > very easy indeed as you say, I just don't have the time to get the > > mechanical bits sorted right now, but I've got it all figured out in my > > head :-) > > > > Grew tired of the unrealistic 210 degree movement of my current setup, > > not quite sure if I'll aim for a full 720, I'll probably go for 540(ish) > > > > > > Beers and cheers > > (uncle) Goy > > > > http://www.theuspits.com > > > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" > > --Groucho Marx-- > >

I see nothing difficult about it, attach a small gear to the steering rack (at the end) and move the potentiometer off to the side or to the bottam and connect a big gear to that. Then, there you go, a 2:1 or 3:1 ratio. Thanks, Alex "Mike Beauchamp" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Z7pQ9.53493$[email hidden]... > I thought about doing the same thing actually. Seems like it'd be easiestif

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> you started from scratch making your own wheel, instead of trying to add > some sort of gearing to an existing wheel. > > I'd really like to see it for games like Live For Speed, where the cars > would actually have a few full rotations of wheel travel. Having a gear > ratio of 2:1 on a regular wheel seems like it would give you the perfect > travel for say WRC type cars, or maybe even GT cars (even though I'm not > familiar with the actual setup of those). Also, having to crank the wheel > around a few solid times would be perfect for things like Rally Trophy :) > > Mike > http://mikebeauchamp.com > > "Alex Kihurani" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:zioQ9.34471$[email hidden]... > > Goy, is the e-mail address you have listed your real one? I want to > contact > > you off-list. > > > > Thanks, > > Alex > > "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > > Alex Kihurani wrote: > > > > > > > > Are there any racing wheels that turn several times lock to lock?

Like > > ones > > > > with a 720 degree turning radius? I haven't seen them at all in the > > past, > > > > and it's extremely easy to implement. If no one has done it, I'lltry > > > > modifying my one normal (non-FF) wheel to make it turn 720 degrees > > total. > > > > > > I'm currently working on an idea for one myself Alex, and it'sactually > > > very easy indeed as you say, I just don't have the time to get the > > > mechanical bits sorted right now, but I've got it all figured out inmy > > > head :-) > > > > > > Grew tired of the unrealistic 210 degree movement of my current setup, > > > not quite sure if I'll aim for a full 720, I'll probably go for540(ish)

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> > > > > > > > > Beers and cheers > > > (uncle) Goy > > > > > > http://www.theuspits.com > > > > > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" > > > --Groucho Marx-- > > > > > >

Alex Kihurani wrote: > > Goy, is the e-mail address you have listed your real one? I want to contact > you off-list. goyl at nettx dot no....yes, I'm paranoid, that's an "L" and not a "one" btw :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

Alex Kihurani wrote: > > I see nothing difficult about it, attach a small gear to the steering rack > (at the end) and move the potentiometer off to the side or to the bottam and > connect a big gear to that. Then, there you go, a 2:1 or 3:1 ratio. That's pretty much what I'm looking at, my brother is an engineer/mechanic and has access to a lathe, a mill (?), welding equipment and everything else we need :-) My wheel is a home made one based on the TSW design, I can't move the pot meter without doing a major redesign of the frame itself, so we'll probably end up cutting the steering shaft and put the gears in the middle somewhere, just tilt both the new rods a bit and we've got the space for the gears, the angle of the steering shaft is a tad steep so it will be even better now Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

How do you make the springs work for return to center so that you get a consistant feel from lock to lock? The springs would need to be attached to the final drive piece that turns the potentiometer, which means that the sproing would have to be stronger for the same force felt. That adds quite a bit of pressure on the gear and linkage being used. Just wondering... Glen Pittman "Alex Kihurani" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:zbpQ9.34594$[email hidden]... > I see nothing difficult about it, attach a small gear to the steering rack > (at the end) and move the potentiometer off to the side or to the bottamand

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> connect a big gear to that. Then, there you go, a 2:1 or 3:1 ratio. > > Thanks, > Alex > "Mike Beauchamp" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:Z7pQ9.53493$[email hidden]... > > I thought about doing the same thing actually. Seems like it'd be

easiest

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> if > > you started from scratch making your own wheel, instead of trying to add > > some sort of gearing to an existing wheel. > > > > I'd really like to see it for games like Live For Speed, where the cars > > would actually have a few full rotations of wheel travel. Having a gear > > ratio of 2:1 on a regular wheel seems like it would give you the perfect > > travel for say WRC type cars, or maybe even GT cars (even though I'm not > > familiar with the actual setup of those). Also, having to crank the

wheel > > around a few solid times would be perfect for things like Rally Trophy:)

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> > > > Mike > > http://mikebeauchamp.com > > > > "Alex Kihurani" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:zioQ9.34471$[email hidden]... > > > Goy, is the e-mail address you have listed your real one? I want to > > contact > > > you off-list. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Alex > > > "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > > > > > Alex Kihurani wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Are there any racing wheels that turn several times lock to lock? > Like > > > ones > > > > > with a 720 degree turning radius? I haven't seen them at all in

the

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> > > past, > > > > > and it's extremely easy to implement. If no one has done it, I'll > try > > > > > modifying my one normal (non-FF) wheel to make it turn 720 degrees > > > total. > > > > > > > > I'm currently working on an idea for one myself Alex, and it's > actually > > > > very easy indeed as you say, I just don't have the time to get the > > > > mechanical bits sorted right now, but I've got it all figured out in > my > > > > head :-) > > > > > > > > Grew tired of the unrealistic 210 degree movement of my current

setup,

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> > > > not quite sure if I'll aim for a full 720, I'll probably go for > 540(ish) > > > > > > > > > > > > Beers and cheers > > > > (uncle) Goy > > > > > > > > http://www.theuspits.com > > > > > > > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" > > > > --Groucho Marx-- > > > > > > > > > > > >

"Glen Pittman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > How do you make the springs work for return to center so that you get a > consistant feel from lock to lock? > > The springs would need to be attached to the final drive piece that turns > the potentiometer, which means that the sproing would have to be stronger > for the same force felt. That adds quite a bit of pressure on the gearand > linkage being used. > > Just wondering... > > Glen Pittman I haven't heard anything about modifying springs, but when I was looking into building my wheel I had read about how some people used elastic ropes,belts,etc. Haven't tried it myself, but you would get tension and releasing the wheel would bring it back to the center. -Will

self centering hydraulic cylinders...you can get them in various tensions, expensive to say the least, way to expensive to play NFS. "William Bradshaw" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > "Glen Pittman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > How do you make the springs work for return to center so that you get a > > consistant feel from lock to lock? > > > > The springs would need to be attached to the final drive piece that

turns > > the potentiometer, which means that the sproing would have to bestronger

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> > for the same force felt. That adds quite a bit of pressure on the gear > and > > linkage being used. > > > > Just wondering... > > > > Glen Pittman > > I haven't heard anything about modifying springs, but when I was looking > into building my wheel I had read about how some people used elastic > ropes,belts,etc. Haven't tried it myself, but you would get tension and > releasing the wheel would bring it back to the center. > > -Will > >

I'm afraid I haven't heard of those, either, but I have to agree with you. IMO, it sounds insanely expensive. But if you're wealthy, maybe they're not a bad investment? As for myself, I'd rather stick to elastic materials to simulate tension. Cheap, and relatively simple to work into a design project for a self-made wheel.. ;-) -Will "Tom Osbon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:_RrQ9.77060$[email hidden]...

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> self centering hydraulic cylinders...you can get them in various tensions, > expensive to say the least, way to expensive to play NFS. > "William Bradshaw" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > I haven't heard anything about modifying springs, but when I was looking > > into building my wheel I had read about how some people used elastic > > ropes,belts,etc. Haven't tried it myself, but you would get tension and > > releasing the wheel would bring it back to the center. > > > > -Will > > > > > >

Atari Hard Drivin' / Race Drivin' had 3 turns lock-to-lock (the arcade sit-down cabinet). This was done with a 3-turn pot on the end of the steering column-- much better than any sort of gearing mechanism. I remember requesting that they select a pot with enough electrical resolution so a 12-bit A-D would read it continuously (with no skipped counts in the output). Cost a few bucks more, but was worth it in terms of the quality of the steering(imo). Since this was force feedback, there was no reason for a centering spring, but there was a strong stop to keep from running the pot past the end of its travel (which would break the pot!) I'm glad to hear that some people are working on this -- a big failure in the home wheels that I've tried is the lack of realistic rotational travel. -- Doug Milliken www.millikenresearch.com On Wed, 1 Jan 2003, Goy Larsen wrote:

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> > > Alex Kihurani wrote: > > > > I see nothing difficult about it, attach a small gear to the steering rack > > (at the end) and move the potentiometer off to the side or to the bottam and > > connect a big gear to that. Then, there you go, a 2:1 or 3:1 ratio. > > That's pretty much what I'm looking at, my brother is an > engineer/mechanic and has access to a lathe, a mill (?), welding > equipment and everything else we need :-) > > My wheel is a home made one based on the TSW design, I can't move the > pot meter without doing a major redesign of the frame itself, so we'll > probably end up cutting the steering shaft and put the gears in the > middle somewhere, just tilt both the new rods a bit and we've got the > space for the gears, the angle of the steering shaft is a tad steep so > it will be even better now > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > http://www.theuspits.com > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" > --Groucho Marx-- > >

Doug Milliken <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > Atari Hard Drivin' / Race Drivin' had 3 turns lock-to-lock (the arcade > sit-down cabinet). This was done with a 3-turn pot on the end of the > steering column-- much better than any sort of gearing mechanism. > > ...there was a strong stop to keep from running the pot past the end of > its travel (which would break the pot!) This is the part I can't get my head around. If it can turn more than one full rotation, how would you incorporate a stop? Got any pictures? Gerald

Doug Milliken wrote:

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> > Atari Hard Drivin' / Race Drivin' had 3 turns lock-to-lock (the arcade > sit-down cabinet). This was done with a 3-turn pot on the end of the > steering column-- much better than any sort of gearing mechanism. I > remember requesting that they select a pot with enough electrical > resolution so a 12-bit A-D would read it continuously (with no skipped > counts in the output). Cost a few bucks more, but was worth it in terms of > the quality of the steering(imo). > > Since this was force feedback, there was no reason for a centering spring, > but there was a strong stop to keep from running the pot past the end of > its travel (which would break the pot!)

Interesting..... > I'm glad to hear that some people are working on this -- a big failure in > the home wheels that I've tried is the lack of realistic rotational travel. Definitely, the overly direct steering input means we have to compensate for it by reducing the maximum wheel lock, which introduces it's own set of problems, only this past BR1000 I had at least one spin I could possibly have avoided with a few degrees more wheel lock, the car balanced ever so nicely on full opposite lock for a few moments before gently spinning around Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ "A man is only as old as the woman he feels" --Groucho Marx--

How did it do that? Did it unscrew or something and have 3 coordinates? I wouldn't be able to do that (I'm not even 16!) and that would require some software coding. However, maybe more accurate, refined potentiometers would be needed with a wheel that can turn more. Thanks, Alex "Doug Milliken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > Atari Hard Drivin' / Race Drivin' had 3 turns lock-to-lock (the arcade > sit-down cabinet). This was done with a 3-turn pot on the end of the > steering column-- much better than any sort of gearing mechanism. I > remember requesting that they select a pot with enough electrical > resolution so a 12-bit A-D would read it continuously (with no skipped > counts in the output). Cost a few bucks more, but was worth it in terms

of

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> the quality of the steering(imo). > > Since this was force feedback, there was no reason for a centering spring, > but there was a strong stop to keep from running the pot past the end of > its travel (which would break the pot!) > > I'm glad to hear that some people are working on this -- a big failure in > the home wheels that I've tried is the lack of realistic rotational

travel.

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> > -- Doug Milliken > www.millikenresearch.com > > > On Wed, 1 Jan 2003, Goy Larsen wrote: > > > > > > > Alex Kihurani wrote: > > > > > > I see nothing difficult about it, attach a small gear to the steering

rack > > > (at the end) and move the potentiometer off to the side or to thebottam and

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> > > connect a big gear to that. Then, there you go, a 2:1 or 3:1 ratio. > > > > That's pretty much what I'm looking at, my brother is an > > engineer/mechanic and has access to a lathe, a mill (?), welding > > equipment and everything else we need :-) > > > > My wheel is a home made one based on the TSW design, I can't move the > > pot meter without doing a major redesign of the frame itself, so we'll > > probably end up cutting the steering shaft and put the gears in the > > middle somewhere, just tilt both the new rods a bit and we've got the > > space for the gears, the angle of the steering shaft is a tad steep so > > it will be even better now > > > > > > Beers and cheers > > (uncle) Goy > > > > http://www.theuspits.com > > > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" > > --Groucho Marx-- > > > > >

On 2 Jan 2003, Gerald Moore wrote:

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> Doug Milliken <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > > Atari Hard Drivin' / Race Drivin' had 3 turns lock-to-lock (the arcade > > sit-down cabinet). This was done with a 3-turn pot on the end of the > > steering column-- much better than any sort of gearing mechanism. > > > > ...there was a strong stop to keep from running the pot past the end of > > its travel (which would break the pot!) > > This is the part I can't get my head around. If it can turn more than > one full rotation, how would you incorporate a stop?

No pics, but not too hard to describe -- there was a strong, large diameter thread on the steering shaft and a big nut with a tab welded to it, like one "wing" of a wingnut. As you turn the wheel the nut threads up and down (the tab is held in a slot) and the threaded portion ends with heavy washers that were welded onto the steering shaft. So the nut bumps into the end of its travel and stops the steering wheel. There were some rubber bumpers in the slot to keep the peak forces down when you jammed the wheel to the end. A friend has one of these sit-down cabinets (with working game) with over 100,000 plays on the game counter and the steering mechanism is fine. Another method that was considered (but not used) was a stack of disks like the disks in a combination lock on a safe -- pegs stick thru each disk and pick-up matching pegs on the next disk. There are many other ways to make a multi-turn stop...machinists and machine designers have been doing things like this for several centuries and car designers have been at it (all cars have steering stops<grin>) for over a century now. -- Doug Milliken www.millikenresearch.com/olleyfl.html <-- review of new book

Doug Milliken <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

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> On 2 Jan 2003, Gerald Moore wrote: > > > Doug Milliken <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > > > Atari Hard Drivin' / Race Drivin' had 3 turns lock-to-lock (the arcade > > > sit-down cabinet). This was done with a 3-turn pot on the end of the > > > steering column-- much better than any sort of gearing mechanism. > > > > > > ...there was a strong stop to keep from running the pot past the end of > > > its travel (which would break the pot!) > > > > This is the part I can't get my head around. If it can turn more than > > one full rotation, how would you incorporate a stop? > > No pics, but not too hard to describe -- there was a strong, large diameter > thread on the steering shaft and a big nut with a tab welded to it, like > one "wing" of a wingnut. As you turn the wheel the nut threads up and down > (the tab is held in a slot) and the threaded portion ends with heavy > washers that were welded onto the steering shaft. So the nut bumps into > the end of its travel and stops the steering wheel. There were some rubber > bumpers in the slot to keep the peak forces down when you jammed the wheel > to the end. A friend has one of these sit-down cabinets (with working > game) with over 100,000 plays on the game counter and the steering > mechanism is fine.

OK, that makes sense. My head expands. > Another method that was considered (but not used) was a stack of disks like > the disks in a combination lock on a safe -- pegs stick thru each disk and > pick-up matching pegs on the next disk. Oww! Not so much in one day! > There are many other ways to make a multi-turn stop...machinists and > machine designers have been doing things like this for several centuries > and car designers have been at it (all cars have steering stops<grin>) for > over a century now. I knew there had to be a way, I just never bothered to investigate, and my head isn't elastic enough to figure it out myself, LOL. Gerald

On 3 Jan 2003, Gerald Moore wrote: > OK, that makes sense. My head expands.... > Oww! Not so much in one day!... > I knew there had to be a way, I just never bothered to investigate, > and my head isn't elastic enough to figure it out myself, LOL. Take your brain out for some exercise every day, use it or lose it... -- Doug

Doug Milliken <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

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> On 3 Jan 2003, Gerald Moore wrote: > > > OK, that makes sense. My head expands. > ... > > Oww! Not so much in one day! > ... > > I knew there had to be a way, I just never bothered to investigate, > > and my head isn't elastic enough to figure it out myself, LOL. > > > Take your brain out for some exercise every day, use it or lose it... > -- Doug

You mean watching Speed Channel doesn't count?

"Doug Milliken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > On 3 Jan 2003, Gerald Moore wrote: > > > OK, that makes sense. My head expands. > ... > > Oww! Not so much in one day! > ... > > I knew there had to be a way, I just never bothered to investigate, > > and my head isn't elastic enough to figure it out myself, LOL. > > > Take your brain out for some exercise every day, use it or lose it... > -- Doug > >

Doug, Thanks for the 20+ year old sense memory. A copy of Race Car Vehicle Dynamics arrived at my door today.. When I opened the cover I got that "new book smell". It brought back memories of highschool. I guess all the books I've bought since school have set on the store shelf long enough to lose that smell. Oh well, my adventure has just begun.

On Tue, 7 Jan 2003, Mike White wrote: <snipped>

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> > Take your brain out for some exercise every day, use it or lose it... > > -- Doug > Doug, > > Thanks for the 20+ year old sense memory. > > A copy of Race Car Vehicle Dynamics arrived at my door today.. > When I opened the cover I got that "new book smell". > It brought back memories of highschool. > I guess all the books I've bought since school have set on the store shelf > long enough to lose that smell. > > Oh well, my adventure has just begun.

Mike, The smell might have changed over the years, I think that printing inks have changed quite a bit with new (computerized) presses and other new technology. Also, we worked with SAE to use a good sewn binding (better than typical textbooks which are designed to fall apart--guess why?) No promises, but I often answer questions posted on r.a.s. -- Doug Milliken www.millikenresearch.com/olleyfl.html <-- new book reviewed here!

Might be of help: There are inline-gearboxes for electric RC-planes. Typically they are in the range of 1:1.5 to 1:3.0. Cut the wheel-shaft, dang the thing in and hold the upper shaft-part by two Ball bearings. This would work on FF-wheels, where you typically cannot extend the deflection. Only a thought. JensSchumi On Tue, 31 Dec 2002 20:31:44 GMT, "Alex Kihurani" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Are there any racing wheels that turn several times lock to lock? Like ones >with a 720 degree turning radius? I haven't seen them at all in the past, >and it's extremely easy to implement. If no one has done it, I'll try >modifying my one normal (non-FF) wheel to make it turn 720 degrees total. > >Thanks, >Alex >

--------------------------------------------- LWFF Ball Bearing conversion at: http://jensschumi.bravepages.com/ GPLRank: -14.82 Monsters of GPL: sub 95

JS wrote:

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> > Might be of help: > There are inline-gearboxes for electric RC-planes. Typically they are in the > range of 1:1.5 to 1:3.0. > Cut the wheel-shaft, dang the thing in and hold the upper shaft-part by two Ball > bearings. > This would work on FF-wheels, where you typically cannot extend the deflection. > > Only a thought.

A damn good one, I'll have to look into this, a 2:1 or 3:1 would suit my needs Thx Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--