Logitech Profiler Brake Axis Tweaking for GPL

For anybody who read my previous messages about the above subject - I was wrong!!! If you haven't read the previous posts, basically I was trying to get the brakes in GPL to feel more like they do in NR2002 or GTR2002. In both cases the spot at which the brakes really start to work coincides roughly with the spot where the pedal on the Momo Racing starts to get firmer, which makes braking very predictable and repeatable in those games. In GPL OTOH it hardly takes a touch to get them working, so I was finding it very difficult to go back and forth between GPL and the other games. I thought that I could tweak the axis range and sensitivity in the Logitech Profiler to fix the feel. You can, but it turned out I was going about it the wrong way. I couldn't figure out why the changes I made often had unexpected results, so today I tried making one change at a time and each time got into GPL and looked at the values it was receiving. It is basically all backwards from what I originally said. The brake axis on the Momo Racing (and most likely on other Logitech pedals) is inverted, i.e. the max value is when the brake is off and the min value is when the brake is full on. But the profiler looks at it as a generic axis and therefore adjusts the range and sensitivity based only on the values that it sees. As a result, setting the axis range to 80% cut both the high and low end values and meant that I was dragging the brakes all the time! The weird thing is it was hardly noticeable. I noticed my average lap times at Monza went up about 0.2 or so, but I'm so inconsistent anyway it took me a while to realize that something was wrong. So stay away from axis range tweaking. Secondly, sensitivity works the opposite of what you would expect. Low sensitivity increases precision in the low range of axis values, therefore increasing the precision when the brake is nearly full on. To increase the precision and reduce the response rate when the brake is nearly off, you need to *increase* the sensitivity. I found that somewhere around 55% to 60% felt pretty good. And this time it was consistent from car to car and the lap times don't appear to be suffering. Anyway, sorry for the confusion, and I hope this helps somebody.

Thanks for that Info, Haqsau. I've been following your suggestions and my Monza times were suffering as well (although the brake pedal did feel right.....) I'll try your new suggestions and continue to blame you when my laptimes suffer. 8-) Bert Haqsau wrote:

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> For anybody who read my previous messages about the above subject - I was > wrong!!! If you haven't read the previous posts, basically I was trying to > get the brakes in GPL to feel more like they do in NR2002 or GTR2002. In > both cases the spot at which the brakes really start to work coincides > roughly with the spot where the pedal on the Momo Racing starts to get > firmer, which makes braking very predictable and repeatable in those games. > In GPL OTOH it hardly takes a touch to get them working, so I was finding it > very difficult to go back and forth between GPL and the other games. I > thought that I could tweak the axis range and sensitivity in the Logitech > Profiler to fix the feel. You can, but it turned out I was going about it > the wrong way. > > I couldn't figure out why the changes I made often had unexpected results, > so today I tried making one change at a time and each time got into GPL and > looked at the values it was receiving. It is basically all backwards from > what I originally said. The brake axis on the Momo Racing (and most likely > on other Logitech pedals) is inverted, i.e. the max value is when the brake > is off and the min value is when the brake is full on. But the profiler > looks at it as a generic axis and therefore adjusts the range and > sensitivity based only on the values that it sees. As a result, setting the > axis range to 80% cut both the high and low end values and meant that I was > dragging the brakes all the time! The weird thing is it was hardly > noticeable. I noticed my average lap times at Monza went up about 0.2 or > so, but I'm so inconsistent anyway it took me a while to realize that > something was wrong. So stay away from axis range tweaking. > > Secondly, sensitivity works the opposite of what you would expect. Low > sensitivity increases precision in the low range of axis values, therefore > increasing the precision when the brake is nearly full on. To increase the > precision and reduce the response rate when the brake is nearly off, you > need to *increase* the sensitivity. I found that somewhere around 55% to > 60% felt pretty good. And this time it was consistent from car to car and > the lap times don't appear to be suffering. > > Anyway, sorry for the confusion, and I hope this helps somebody.

Thanks for that Info, Haqsau. I've been following your suggestions and my Monza times were suffering as well (although the brake pedal did feel right.....) I'll try your new suggestions and continue to blame you when my laptimes suffer. 8-) Bert

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> For anybody who read my previous messages about the above subject - I was > wrong!!! If you haven't read the previous posts, basically I was trying to > get the brakes in GPL to feel more like they do in NR2002 or GTR2002. In > both cases the spot at which the brakes really start to work coincides > roughly with the spot where the pedal on the Momo Racing starts to get > firmer, which makes braking very predictable and repeatable in those games. > In GPL OTOH it hardly takes a touch to get them working, so I was finding it > very difficult to go back and forth between GPL and the other games. I > thought that I could tweak the axis range and sensitivity in the Logitech > Profiler to fix the feel. You can, but it turned out I was going about it > the wrong way. > I couldn't figure out why the changes I made often had unexpected results, > so today I tried making one change at a time and each time got into GPL and > looked at the values it was receiving. It is basically all backwards from > what I originally said. The brake axis on the Momo Racing (and most likely > on other Logitech pedals) is inverted, i.e. the max value is when the brake > is off and the min value is when the brake is full on. But the profiler > looks at it as a generic axis and therefore adjusts the range and > sensitivity based only on the values that it sees. As a result, setting the > axis range to 80% cut both the high and low end values and meant that I was > dragging the brakes all the time! The weird thing is it was hardly > noticeable. I noticed my average lap times at Monza went up about 0.2 or > so, but I'm so inconsistent anyway it took me a while to realize that > something was wrong. So stay away from axis range tweaking. > Secondly, sensitivity works the opposite of what you would expect. Low > sensitivity increases precision in the low range of axis values, therefore > increasing the precision when the brake is nearly full on. To increase the > precision and reduce the response rate when the brake is nearly off, you > need to *increase* the sensitivity. I found that somewhere around 55% to > 60% felt pretty good. And this time it was consistent from car to car and > the lap times don't appear to be suffering. > Anyway, sorry for the confusion, and I hope this helps somebody.

Yes and no. You can actually see it when the brake is dragging in the Win/Ctrl Pnl calibration applet (it doesn't retrurn to zero). Most sims (e.g., SCGT, F1200x) will pick this up...but not Papy's, which--providing you recalibrate within the sim--will undrag the brakes with the pedal up, and give you vollgaz with the hammer down, as I found out after some ill-advised tweaks (not yerz) within DXTweak2. But thanx for stepping up, as it were. "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:av2j3p$biknv$[email hidden]... > For anybody who read my previous messages about the above subject - I was > wrong!!! If you haven't read the previous posts, basically I was tryingto > get the brakes in GPL to feel more like they do in NR2002 or GTR2002. In > both cases the spot at which the brakes really start to work coincides > roughly with the spot where the pedal on the Momo Racing starts to get > firmer, which makes braking very predictable and repeatable in thosegames. > In GPL OTOH it hardly takes a touch to get them working, so I was findingit

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> very difficult to go back and forth between GPL and the other games. I > thought that I could tweak the axis range and sensitivity in the Logitech > Profiler to fix the feel. You can, but it turned out I was going about it > the wrong way. > > I couldn't figure out why the changes I made often had unexpected results, > so today I tried making one change at a time and each time got into GPL

and > looked at the values it was receiving. It is basically all backwards from > what I originally said. The brake axis on the Momo Racing (and mostlikely > on other Logitech pedals) is inverted, i.e. the max value is when thebrake > is off and the min value is when the brake is full on. But the profiler > looks at it as a generic axis and therefore adjusts the range and > sensitivity based only on the values that it sees. As a result, settingthe > axis range to 80% cut both the high and low end values and meant that Iwas

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> dragging the brakes all the time! The weird thing is it was hardly > noticeable. I noticed my average lap times at Monza went up about 0.2 or > so, but I'm so inconsistent anyway it took me a while to realize that > something was wrong. So stay away from axis range tweaking. > > Secondly, sensitivity works the opposite of what you would expect. Low > sensitivity increases precision in the low range of axis values, therefore > increasing the precision when the brake is nearly full on. To increase

the

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> precision and reduce the response rate when the brake is nearly off, you > need to *increase* the sensitivity. I found that somewhere around 55% to > 60% felt pretty good. And this time it was consistent from car to car and > the lap times don't appear to be suffering. > > Anyway, sorry for the confusion, and I hope this helps somebody. > > > > >

FWIW: After trying for more than a week to tweak the pedals of the MOMO Racing Wheel (thru the Profiler), I decided to try going back to my trusty TSW peds in combination with the MOMO wheel. With the TSW peds, within about 8 laps in GPL I was consistently (5-6 laps in a row) faster than my fastest lap using the MOMO peds (at Monza - F2). Then I decided to give the TSW peds a quick whirl on GTR2002. Within about 6 laps at Road Atlanta, I had a PB by about 3/4s of a second. I can't explain it, because the MOMO peds FEEL so good. Not that the TSW's don't, but the TSW brake doesn't have that "progressive resistance" feel to it like the MOMO's does. However, even without that "feel", I find that I can control the drifts thru the turns, using the pedals, much better than with the MOMO's. Go figure. One feels "better", but the other's are faster.... Perhaps it's just a matter of familiarity, but I'm not so sure of that. The TSW's just seem to be more..........precise. Perhaps a bit more tweaking on the MOMO, when I have a more time. But for right now, I'm sticking with the TSW peds. Bert Haqsau wrote:

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> For anybody who read my previous messages about the above subject - I was > wrong!!! If you haven't read the previous posts, basically I was trying to > get the brakes in GPL to feel more like they do in NR2002 or GTR2002. In > both cases the spot at which the brakes really start to work coincides > roughly with the spot where the pedal on the Momo Racing starts to get > firmer, which makes braking very predictable and repeatable in those games. > In GPL OTOH it hardly takes a touch to get them working, so I was finding it > very difficult to go back and forth between GPL and the other games. I > thought that I could tweak the axis range and sensitivity in the Logitech > Profiler to fix the feel. You can, but it turned out I was going about it > the wrong way. > > I couldn't figure out why the changes I made often had unexpected results, > so today I tried making one change at a time and each time got into GPL and > looked at the values it was receiving. It is basically all backwards from > what I originally said. The brake axis on the Momo Racing (and most likely > on other Logitech pedals) is inverted, i.e. the max value is when the brake > is off and the min value is when the brake is full on. But the profiler > looks at it as a generic axis and therefore adjusts the range and > sensitivity based only on the values that it sees. As a result, setting the > axis range to 80% cut both the high and low end values and meant that I was > dragging the brakes all the time! The weird thing is it was hardly > noticeable. I noticed my average lap times at Monza went up about 0.2 or > so, but I'm so inconsistent anyway it took me a while to realize that > something was wrong. So stay away from axis range tweaking. > > Secondly, sensitivity works the opposite of what you would expect. Low > sensitivity increases precision in the low range of axis values, therefore > increasing the precision when the brake is nearly full on. To increase the > precision and reduce the response rate when the brake is nearly off, you > need to *increase* the sensitivity. I found that somewhere around 55% to > 60% felt pretty good. And this time it was consistent from car to car and > the lap times don't appear to be suffering. > > Anyway, sorry for the confusion, and I hope this helps somebody.

FWIW: After trying for more than a week to tweak the pedals of the MOMO Racing Wheel (thru the Profiler), I decided to try going back to my trusty TSW peds in combination with the MOMO wheel. With the TSW peds, within about 8 laps in GPL I was consistently (5-6 laps in a row) faster than my fastest lap using the MOMO peds (at Monza - F2). Then I decided to give the TSW peds a quick whirl on GTR2002. Within about 6 laps at Road Atlanta, I had a PB by about 3/4s of a second. I can't explain it, because the MOMO peds FEEL so good. Not that the TSW's don't, but the TSW brake doesn't have that "progressive resistance" feel to it like the MOMO's does. However, even without that "feel", I find that I can control the drifts thru the turns, using the pedals, much better than with the MOMO's. Go figure. One feels "better", but the other's are faster.... Perhaps it's just a matter of familiarity, but I'm not so sure of that. The TSW's just seem to be more..........precise. Perhaps a bit more tweaking on the MOMO, when I have a more time. But for right now, I'm sticking with the TSW peds. Bert

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> For anybody who read my previous messages about the above subject - I was > wrong!!! If you haven't read the previous posts, basically I was trying to > get the brakes in GPL to feel more like they do in NR2002 or GTR2002. In > both cases the spot at which the brakes really start to work coincides > roughly with the spot where the pedal on the Momo Racing starts to get > firmer, which makes braking very predictable and repeatable in those games. > In GPL OTOH it hardly takes a touch to get them working, so I was finding it > very difficult to go back and forth between GPL and the other games. I > thought that I could tweak the axis range and sensitivity in the Logitech > Profiler to fix the feel. You can, but it turned out I was going about it > the wrong way. > I couldn't figure out why the changes I made often had unexpected results, > so today I tried making one change at a time and each time got into GPL and > looked at the values it was receiving. It is basically all backwards from > what I originally said. The brake axis on the Momo Racing (and most likely > on other Logitech pedals) is inverted, i.e. the max value is when the brake > is off and the min value is when the brake is full on. But the profiler > looks at it as a generic axis and therefore adjusts the range and > sensitivity based only on the values that it sees. As a result, setting the > axis range to 80% cut both the high and low end values and meant that I was > dragging the brakes all the time! The weird thing is it was hardly > noticeable. I noticed my average lap times at Monza went up about 0.2 or > so, but I'm so inconsistent anyway it took me a while to realize that > something was wrong. So stay away from axis range tweaking. > Secondly, sensitivity works the opposite of what you would expect. Low > sensitivity increases precision in the low range of axis values, therefore > increasing the precision when the brake is nearly full on. To increase the > precision and reduce the response rate when the brake is nearly off, you > need to *increase* the sensitivity. I found that somewhere around 55% to > 60% felt pretty good. And this time it was consistent from car to car and > the lap times don't appear to be suffering. > Anyway, sorry for the confusion, and I hope this helps somebody.