Another Wheel PSU burn out after playing LFS

Back on Aug 26 of 2002 I posted a message to this group about my Thrustmaster/Ferrari Wheel's PSU going dead after playing Live For Speed and I wondered whether this had been the cause and was told that it was unlikely. Well, since that burn out I haven't played any sims due to lack of a working wheel. Until earlier today/thursday that is. I had seen the same wheel in the sales and decided to buy it, picking it up on thurs 2nd Jan. Got it home and, seeing as I still had my old wheel, but no psu, plugged the new wheel's psu into my old wheel, which was still attached to my desktop. I then happily played GPL and N2002 to see how my skills had fallen. Not too far, it seems. Then it was on to Live For Speed. After downloading the latest version 0.1N, I started the game and configured my wheel without any problems, making sure FF was turned off. Despite this, when I went to race there were some strange forces going through the wheel - funny vibrations when driving along the straight for instance - but I thought I'd put up with it, just as I had back in August when LFS was doing strange things with my wheel. What a big mistake!! After playing for about an hour I exited back to the desktop and discovered that the wheel light was now off and game controllers was saying it was no longer connected. What the F-?!! So I went to unplug the PSU and found that it was almost too hot to touch. Well, that was about 5 hours ago, and since then the wheel won't work with the new PSU and it now stays cold, just like the other one. Was it anything to do with LFS? I'll let you decide. Just to confirm it's not a wheel problem. I had the idea of plugging an old variable voltage adapter I had kicking around into the wheel just to see. The adapter only went up to 12volts and 300mA, but, to my surprise, it was able to make the wheel work with it and, seeing as I'm not bothered about FF anyway, I was able to go back to N2002 and play for another couple of hours. As for the new PSU? Still dead and I've only had it for less than 24 hours. Guess who won't be touching Live For Speed again? :( -- Peter Ives (AKA Pete Ivington) Remove ALL_STRESS before replying via email If you know what's good for you, don't listen to me :) GPLRank Joystick -50.63 Wheel -21.77

On Fri, 3 Jan 2003 03:32:26 +0000, Peter Ives <[email hidden]> wrote: [snip] >Guess who won't be touching Live For Speed again? :( Wow. That's wild. I have many hours with LFS on both an original Wingman FF and Momo Force (the older, expensive one). Haven't had problems with either one. Personally, I'd stick with playing the game and ditch that wheel. If it's that lame, it won't be long until something else comes along capable of killing it. I wouldn't want my controller dictating what games I could play.

I guess LFS is the best stress test for a FF controller. :) The PSU is clearly underdimentioned. Even if there is bad code in LFS that puts a lot of unnecessary stress on the wheel, it should not get damaged. Have you told the LFS team about this? Even if it's not their fault, I'm sure they don't want LFS to damage all TM/Ferrari wheels. I assume it's a regular transformer, not a switch mode PSU. It could be just a blown fuse inside the PSU, or it could be a heat fuse inside the transformer itself, and it can be a bit difficult to replace. Do not use the transformer unfused, I've seen what happen when they catch fire. There's enough stored heat to boil a bucket of water if you short it's output. If you are able to replace the fuse you should not play LFS again without turning down the FF strength in some way. Get a bigger PSU that has the same voltage rating as the original one but gives more amps (or milliamps). You got to have the same voltage and check if it's output is DC or AC before you get one. A PSU that gives more amps will not breathe as hard as the underdimentioned original supply, and will be able to give the wheel the power it needs. There is off course a slight possibility that this new-PSU/LFS combo will make the wheel able to kill it's FF motor or the power transistors that drives it. :) BTW: A hard working transformer should be someware between "almost to hot to touch" and "to hot to touch", but maybe not on the plastic case. --- Jone Tytlandsvik http://tytlandsvik.no

I'm purely guessing, but maybe you're using relatively higher forces than most others? Achim

LFS has multiple choices for FF wheels. Are you sure you've chosen the correct ones for your setup? IT 'IS' very odd that your problem happened twice. dave henrie "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:av3unk$bamcm$[email hidden]... > I'm purely guessing, but maybe you're using relatively higher forces than > most others? > > Achim > > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.434 / Virus Database: 243 - Release Date: 12/25/02

LFS has multiple choices for FF wheels. Are you sure you've chosen the correct ones for your setup? IT 'IS' very odd that your problem happened twice. dave henrie "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:av3unk$bamcm$[email hidden]... > I'm purely guessing, but maybe you're using relatively higher forces than > most others? > > Achim > > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.434 / Virus Database: 243 - Release Date: 12/25/02

Peter Ives wrote:

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> Back on Aug 26 of 2002 I posted a message to this group about my > Thrustmaster/Ferrari Wheel's PSU going dead after playing Live For Speed > and I wondered whether this had been the cause and was told that it was > unlikely. Well, since that burn out I haven't played any sims due to > lack of a working wheel. Until earlier today/thursday that is. > > I had seen the same wheel in the sales and decided to buy it, picking it > up on thurs 2nd Jan. Got it home and, seeing as I still had my old > wheel, but no psu, plugged the new wheel's psu into my old wheel, which > was still attached to my desktop. I then happily played GPL and N2002 > to see how my skills had fallen. Not too far, it seems. > > Then it was on to Live For Speed. After downloading the latest version > 0.1N, I started the game and configured my wheel without any problems, > making sure FF was turned off. Despite this, when I went to race there > were some strange forces going through the wheel - funny vibrations when > driving along the straight for instance - but I thought I'd put up with > it, just as I had back in August when LFS was doing strange things with > my wheel. What a big mistake!! After playing for about an hour I > exited back to the desktop and discovered that the wheel light was now > off and game controllers was saying it was no longer connected. What > the F-?!! So I went to unplug the PSU and found that it was almost too > hot to touch. > > Well, that was about 5 hours ago, and since then the wheel won't work > with the new PSU and it now stays cold, just like the other one. Was it > anything to do with LFS? I'll let you decide. > > Just to confirm it's not a wheel problem. I had the idea of plugging an > old variable voltage adapter I had kicking around into the wheel just to > see. The adapter only went up to 12volts and 300mA, but, to my > surprise, it was able to make the wheel work with it and, seeing as I'm > not bothered about FF anyway, I was able to go back to N2002 and play > for another couple of hours. As for the new PSU? Still dead and I've > only had it for less than 24 hours. > > Guess who won't be touching Live For Speed again? :(

Hi, There is another possibility: your original wheel may have some problem that makes it draw more power from the transformere than it should. If I read your post correctly, both transformer burned with the same wheel, so maybe the problem is in the wheel. If it has too much internal attrition on bearings, shafts and the like, the motor will pull higher currents, and may overload the transformer... DF

In article <77iR9.218542$qF3.15506@sccrnsc04>, Dave Henrie <[email hidden]> writes > LFS has multiple choices for FF wheels. Are you sure you've chosen the >correct ones for your setup? IT 'IS' very odd that your problem happened >twice. >dave henrie Not sure where those 'multiple choices' are. This is all I could find in the cfg.txt file: FF Max 100.00 FF Strength 0.00 > >"Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:av3unk$bamcm$[email hidden]... >> I'm purely guessing, but maybe you're using relatively higher forces than >> most others? -- Peter Ives (AKA Pete Ivington) Remove ALL_STRESS before replying via email If you know what's good for you, don't listen to me :) GPLRank Joystick -50.63 Wheel -21.77

"Dave Henrie" wrote... > LFS has multiple choices for FF wheels. Are you > sure you've chosen the correct ones for your setup? >IT 'IS' very odd that your problem happened twice. Equally odd that you posted this twice. Jan. =---

"Jone Tytlandsvik" wrote... > I guess LFS is the best stress test for a FF controller. :) > <snip> There is off course a slight possibility that this > new-PSU/LFS combo will make the wheel able to kill it's FF > motor or the power transistors that drives it. :) With you up to this point... DC motors that are used in this type of application should be able to support short circuit currents (i.e. anchor stopped) almost indefinately. Any manufacturer who uses an underdimentioned motor or doesn't design his control electronics to match is a charlatan. But with you all the way otherwise. Use a 3rd party power supply with a higher current rating. 70W selectable output voltage SMPS units are commonly available in electronics stores (as spares for notebook PSU's) and are virtually indestructible (electrically speaking, don't back up your car over one ;-)). Then test the wheels back to back to see if one loads it more than the other (check temp after about an hour of track time). Jan. =---

In article <[email hidden]>, dfrois <[email hidden]> writes

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>Peter Ives wrote: >> Back on Aug 26 of 2002 I posted a message to this group about my >> Thrustmaster/Ferrari Wheel's PSU going dead after playing Live For >Speed >> and I wondered whether this had been the cause and was told that it was >> unlikely. Well, since that burn out I haven't played any sims due to >> lack of a working wheel. Until earlier today/thursday that is. >> >> I had seen the same wheel in the sales and decided to buy it, picking it >> up on thurs 2nd Jan. Got it home and, seeing as I still had my old >> wheel, but no psu, plugged the new wheel's psu into my old wheel, which >> was still attached to my desktop. I then happily played GPL and N2002 >> to see how my skills had fallen. Not too far, it seems. >> >> Then it was on to Live For Speed. After downloading the latest version >> 0.1N, I started the game and configured my wheel without any problems, >> making sure FF was turned off. Despite this, when I went to race there >> were some strange forces going through the wheel - funny vibrations when >> driving along the straight for instance - but I thought I'd put up with >> it, just as I had back in August when LFS was doing strange things with >> my wheel. What a big mistake!! After playing for about an hour I >> exited back to the desktop and discovered that the wheel light was now >> off and game controllers was saying it was no longer connected. What >> the F-?!! So I went to unplug the PSU and found that it was almost too >> hot to touch. >> >> Well, that was about 5 hours ago, and since then the wheel won't work >> with the new PSU and it now stays cold, just like the other one. Was it >> anything to do with LFS? I'll let you decide. >> >> Just to confirm it's not a wheel problem. I had the idea of plugging an >> old variable voltage adapter I had kicking around into the wheel just to >> see. The adapter only went up to 12volts and 300mA, but, to my >> surprise, it was able to make the wheel work with it and, seeing as I'm >> not bothered about FF anyway, I was able to go back to N2002 and play >> for another couple of hours. As for the new PSU? Still dead and I've >> only had it for less than 24 hours. >> >> Guess who won't be touching Live For Speed again? :( > >Hi, > >There is another possibility: your original wheel may have some problem >that makes it draw more power from the transformere than it should. If I >read your post correctly, both transformer burned with the same wheel, >so maybe the problem is in the wheel. If it has too much internal >attrition on bearings, shafts and the like, the motor will pull higher >currents, and may overload the transformer... >

Problem is, I had FF disabled and yet the game still attempted to manipulate the wheel in some strange ways. Anyway, was able to replace the one bought yesterday as I told them the PSU had burned out already. I like the feel of these wheels when driving, so I don't feel the need to get something else. I guess the only way I'm going to figure out whether the wheel is over- stressing the PSU is to turn FF on in one of my other sims. If it does go again, I've seen a more powerful adapter (higher voltage and amperage) with what looks like the appropriate connector that I can buy separately. I played NR2002 again today with FF off and the PSU was still cold after an hour. This is definitely something to do with FF. -- Peter Ives (AKA Pete Ivington) Remove ALL_STRESS before replying via email If you know what's good for you, don't listen to me :) GPLRank Joystick -50.63 Wheel -21.77

"Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:kPkR9.86791$[email hidden]... > With you up to this point... DC motors that are used in this type of > application should be able to support short circuit currents (i.e. anchor > stopped) almost indefinately. Any manufacturer who uses anunderdimentioned > motor or doesn't design his control electronics to match is a charlatan. I agree, that's why I said "slight possibility". But you never know. Unless Peter's wheel has a production fault, TM has proven they are charlatans, by designing a wheel that is able to kill it's power supply. Jone.

In article <[email hidden]>, Peter Ives <[email hidden]> writes <snipped my original post>

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>>Hi, >> >>There is another possibility: your original wheel may have some problem >>that makes it draw more power from the transformere than it should. If I >>read your post correctly, both transformer burned with the same wheel, >>so maybe the problem is in the wheel. If it has too much internal >>attrition on bearings, shafts and the like, the motor will pull higher >>currents, and may overload the transformer... >> > >Problem is, I had FF disabled and yet the game still attempted to >manipulate the wheel in some strange ways. Anyway, was able to replace >the one bought yesterday as I told them the PSU had burned out already. >I like the feel of these wheels when driving, so I don't feel the need >to get something else. > >I guess the only way I'm going to figure out whether the wheel is over- >stressing the PSU is to turn FF on in one of my other sims. If it does >go again, I've seen a more powerful adapter (higher voltage and >amperage) with what looks like the appropriate connector that I can buy >separately. >

OK, I may have jumped the gun and, if so, apologies go to the Live For Speed team, but there may be a problem with FF in my original wheel. I have now tried FF using NR2002 and as soon as I went to drive the wheel turned full left, that is before I had even engaged first gear. I then had to pull hard on the wheel to straighten it out. Now this was the original fault back in august of last year when I was playing LFS, though it is a slight chicken and egg situation as to whether the fault developed and then LFS compounded it, or LFS helped create the fault. It was some time ago and the fault origianlly appeared whilst playing LFS. I have read of the left pull on the straights in NR2002, but this seems way much more severe. I didn't drive too long like this for fear of damaging another PSU, which I imagine would be the logical outcome. I would say that the damage is being caused because the PSU is being over- stressed by the wheel not behaving as it is supposed to. 2 further tests are required: 1) Try the other wheel to see if it happens. If it doesn't then its obviously the original wheel that is at fault. If it does happen with the new wheel then: 2) Re-install the driver software for the wheel to see if that corrects the problem. >I played NR2002 again today with FF off and the PSU was still cold after >an hour. This is definitely something to do with FF. -- Peter Ives (AKA Pete Ivington) Remove ALL_STRESS before replying via email If you know what's good for you, don't listen to me :) GPLRank Joystick -50.63 Wheel -21.77