John's Anti Jap Car tirade...sorry about the new thread

I can't figure out this Xnews newsreader yet. I can post a reply via email or start a new thread, but I haven't figured out how to post a follow -up to a thread. So my apologies for starting another thread. I'll probably have to do it some more before I even figure out where the read-me is. John was all in a tizzy about Foriegn cars joining Nascar. He felt it was the last American sport left. That never bothered me, I welcome world-wide competiton. Heck we sent a one-nutted half dead biker over to some French bicycle race and look what a major job of Whup-Ass he laid on them. We had a 6 year old design of a Dodge Viper cleanup on brandnew Ferrai's and newer Listers this past year in FIA GT racing.(ok 2k2 spec AFTER the first race). Yes even the extra wide Chevy corvette took on the big Euro types and with FAT American pistons took LeMans, Daytona and the ALMS GTS series. My feeling is, let them come, they might even kick the Yankee butt. But they will contribute to better racing and I'm all for that..be it Yellow, Red, Prancings Mules or French WinniethePoohjoes. So IF the Japanese come, they'll probably do it like most other incursions, they'll hire a bunch of Yanks and team them with the Asian Engineers and form a winning combination. You can bet if Toyota comes, another brand or two will follow. I enjoyed the reign of the Nissan GTP cars, those Japan-built cars with Australian drivers. I marvelled at the Toyota IMSA GTP twin turbos in good ol American built tubs. Al Unser Jr's big wins at Indy are not deminished because he drove English chassis' with British/German powerplants. Hell, I don't even hold it against the Aussies for keeping thier V8 series down under...wouldn't it be something to see the Yank Trans Am cars butt heads with the Ozzies? We could put Paul Gentilozzi up against Dougle MacDougle(love that name!) I guess since Alan Kulwicki won the Winston Cup title waaaay back 10 or 12 years ago, I thought the Southern element of Nascar had gotten over their fear of outsiders. Heck didn't a guy from Michigan win a race this year?(For the benefit of the Euro/Asian readers, Michigan is further north than parts of Canada...ok not MANY parts but some...) :) Would the America's cup be getting any coverage at all if it was just a club race between a few Brits still? Competiton is good John. Bring it on...it will give me a new subject to scream about when I get tired of ragging on the Ron Fellows Clones in the Sportscar mods(hey...isn't he a Cannuck?) Once again, my apologies for a new thread...I'll figure this Xnews out someday. dave henrie

While I can see your points, and believe they have their merits and as much as it pains me to say it I gotta go with John on this (Never thought I'd see the day). For the most part its a matter of personal preference more than anything, but I don't want them there. For me it doesn't have so much to do with competition as it does with the heritage of the sport. I dislike the idea of "jap cars" for the same reasons I hate the idea of taking a race away from Darlington or Rockingham to give a 1.5 tri/quad oval track like Texas a second race. To this day can remember the moment I started getting out of Indy/CART racing. It was the year Teo Fabi <sp> took the pole at Indy. Another big one was when Emo refused to drink milk after winning. It was a slap in the face of sport. While it may not have meant much to him its the fact that its not that bugs me. If they are just trophy hunters there are plenty of other series that they can go race in. This was a very big reason why I supported the IRL at first. It was billed to get back to the way things were. The IRL was suppose to be so that the top sprint car and midget guys could have another level to race at. Not a bunch of F1 hand me downs or wannabes. Of course we all know how that ended up. The money and marketing took over and its right back to the way it was before the split. Sorry to take it to an open wheel direction, but it was a good example of why I feel the way I do. A good NASCAR based example is that Japanese guy that ran for Travis Carter at Dover. It was all a gimmick. There was no reason for that guy to be out there other than to make news and draw in the foreign crowd. Now if he had been running well in Busch or even trucks it would have been different, but he was only they so that Carter could get some press and get some sponsor bucks. There will be even more of that if/when Toyota comes in. While I'm no expert on racing in Japan I don't think oval racing is to big over there so why do they want in? Money of course. In John's original thread someone told him to think like a capitalist. I know as well as anyone that racing has become more of a business than a sport, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. I see the entry of the Japanese cars as just another step in the sell out that NA$CAR has become. So just like the cars we drive its a matter of personal taste, but given the choice of Mustang Cobra or some hot rod "ricer" I know which one I'd take. Look at it this way Dave. The idea of Japanese cars in NASCAR is to us as roof riders/kit kamers are to you. And we all know how you feel about that. lol MadDAWG

"MadDAWG" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]:

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> > Look at it this way Dave. The idea of Japanese cars in NASCAR is to us > as roof riders/kit kamers are to you. And we all know how you feel > about that. lol > > > MadDAWG >

You mean those DIRTY/STINKIN/NOGOOD Nips are roof riders? I'm changing sides!!!! (((kidding...jussst kidding folks...I didn't mean the part about stinkin...really.....))) :) dave henrie

Why do you think the American manufacturers are in it? The saying "Win on Sunday sell on Monday" goes back a looong ways in NASCAR. "MadDAWG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > While I'm no expert on racing in Japan I don't think oval racing is to bigover there so why do they want in? > Money of course.

> Why do you think the American manufacturers are in it? The saying "Win on > Sunday sell on Monday" goes back a looong ways in NASCAR. Do those tanks resemble anything you can buy on Monday? I certainly hope not.

Great post Dave, I'm with you on this one. No one cares about the American Vipers and Vettes wining all over, but try to compete with them on their home turf, and watch out. Of course, I'm a Canadian :) "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I can't figure out this Xnews newsreader yet. I can post a reply via > email or start a new thread, but I haven't figured out how to post afollow > -up to a thread. So my apologies for starting another thread. I'll > probably have to do it some more before I even figure out where theread-me > is. > > John was all in a tizzy about Foriegn cars joining Nascar. He felt it > was the last American sport left. > That never bothered me, I welcome world-wide competiton. Heck wesent > a one-nutted half dead biker over to some French bicycle race and lookwhat

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> a major job of Whup-Ass he laid on them. > We had a 6 year old design of a Dodge Viper cleanup on brandnew > Ferrai's and newer Listers this past year in FIA GT racing.(ok 2k2 spec > AFTER the first race). Yes even the extra wide Chevy corvette took on the > big Euro types and with FAT American pistons took LeMans, Daytona and the > ALMS GTS series. > My feeling is, let them come, they might even kick the Yankee butt. > But they will contribute to better racing and I'm all for that..be it > Yellow, Red, Prancings Mules or French WinniethePoohjoes. > > So IF the Japanese come, they'll probably do it like most other > incursions, they'll hire a bunch of Yanks and team them with the Asian > Engineers and form a winning combination. You can bet if Toyota comes, > another brand or two will follow. > > I enjoyed the reign of the Nissan GTP cars, those Japan-built cars > with Australian drivers. I marvelled at the Toyota IMSA GTP twin turbos

in > good ol American built tubs. Al Unser Jr's big wins at Indy are not > deminished because he drove English chassis' with British/German > powerplants. > Hell, I don't even hold it against the Aussies for keeping thier V8 > series down under...wouldn't it be something to see the Yank Trans Am cars > butt heads with the Ozzies? We could put Paul Gentilozzi up againstDougle

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> MacDougle(love that name!) > > I guess since Alan Kulwicki won the Winston Cup title waaaay back 10 > or 12 years ago, I thought the Southern element of Nascar had gotten over > their fear of outsiders. Heck didn't a guy from Michigan win a race this > year?(For the benefit of the Euro/Asian readers, Michigan is further north > than parts of Canada...ok not MANY parts but some...) :) > Would the America's cup be getting any coverage at all if it was just > a club race between a few Brits still? > Competiton is good John. > Bring it on...it will give me a new subject to scream about when I > get tired of ragging on the Ron Fellows Clones in the Sportscar > mods(hey...isn't he a Cannuck?) > Once again, my apologies for a new thread...I'll figure this Xnews out > someday. > dave henrie

"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I can't figure out this Xnews newsreader yet. I can post a reply via > email or start a new thread, but I haven't figured out how to post afollow > -up to a thread. So my apologies for starting another thread. I'll > probably have to do it some more before I even figure out where theread-me

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> is. > > We had a 6 year old design of a Dodge Viper cleanup on brandnew > Ferrai's and newer Listers this past year in FIA GT racing.(ok 2k2 spec > AFTER the first race). Yes even the extra wide Chevy corvette took on the > big Euro types and with FAT American pistons took LeMans, Daytona and the > ALMS GTS series. > Competiton is good John.

Agreed - American manufacturers have shown us how it's done in some fields. Although to be fair - the single seater market is sewn up as a British concern :P If Nascar fans dont want any 'outsiders' coming into their sport then my opinions of Nascar fans in general has been right all along - and it's not a nice opinion either. It's not much of a stretch of the imagination to consider it Racism. Doug

"Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:wosU9.4686$xE1.684803@stones...

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> > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > I can't figure out this Xnews newsreader yet. I can post a reply via > > email or start a new thread, but I haven't figured out how to post a > follow > > -up to a thread. So my apologies for starting another thread. I'll > > probably have to do it some more before I even figure out where the > read-me > > is. > > > > > We had a 6 year old design of a Dodge Viper cleanup on brandnew > > Ferrai's and newer Listers this past year in FIA GT racing.(ok 2k2 spec > > AFTER the first race). Yes even the extra wide Chevy corvette took on

the > > big Euro types and with FAT American pistons took LeMans, Daytona andthe > > ALMS GTS series. > > > Competiton is good John. > > Agreed - American manufacturers have shown us how it's done in somefields. > Although to be fair - the single seater market is sewn up as a British > concern :P > > If Nascar fans dont want any 'outsiders' coming into their sport then my > opinions of Nascar fans in general has been right all along - and it's nota > nice opinion either. It's not much of a stretch of the imagination to > consider it Racism. > > Doug Hey Doug, let's jump to conclusions a bit, shall we ? Interesting, you hammer on John about racism, but seem to have no qualms about holding a stereotypical, bigoted attitude about Nascar fans you imply. And for the record Dave, Kulwicki was hardly breaking ground by being an "outsider" in Nascar. You're spoken of fear of outsiders by the Southern element is off-base. Whether John's comments were "smart" or not, uninformed, just as biased, retorts aren't any better imo. John > >

"John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > "Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:wosU9.4686$xE1.684803@stones... > Interesting, you > hammer on John about racism, but seem to have no qualms about holding a > stereotypical, bigoted attitude about Nascar fans you imply. You dont know what my attitude of Nascar fans is. I imply it's not good - but you dont know why or what it is Perhaps it's only the most vocal who 'do the damage' w.r.t. the image of your average Nascar fan - but people like John Simmons do them NO favours and anyone prepared to side with him on such an issue is certainly someone who's company I'd avoid - I'm not going to be out and out racist about things - I am not a racist person - but like it or loath it there IS a stereotype surrounding Nascar fans - and people like John S. do a very good job of upholding it. Doug

"Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:FftU9.4691$xE1.685264@stones...

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> > "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > "Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:wosU9.4686$xE1.684803@stones... > > Interesting, you > > hammer on John about racism, but seem to have no qualms about holding a > > stereotypical, bigoted attitude about Nascar fans you imply. > > You dont know what my attitude of Nascar fans is. I imply it's not

good -

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> but you dont know why or what it is > > Perhaps it's only the most vocal who 'do the damage' w.r.t. the image of > your average Nascar fan - but people like John Simmons do them NO favours > and anyone prepared to side with him on such an issue is certainly someone > who's company I'd avoid - I'm not going to be out and out racist about > things - I am not a racist person - but like it or loath it there IS a > stereotype surrounding Nascar fans - and people like John S. do a very

good > job of upholding it. > > Doug Lol, yeah, whatever. As I said, guess it's ok for you to have uninformed, preconcieved attitudes(since when does the type matter ?) about a group. John p.s. F1, etc. fans have a stereotype too. Amazing; stereotypes aren't limited to Nascar fans I guess. > >

> Lol, yeah, whatever. As I said, guess it's ok for you to haveuninformed, > preconcieved attitudes(since when does the type matter ?) about a group. My opinion of Nascar fans was NOT PREconcieved - my only opinion of Nascar fans is deduced from their attitude and behaviour on sierra.com - their attitudes and behiaviour on forums and their attitude, behaviour and appearence on TV. To have an opinion based on that is neither a stereotype or racist. Doug

"Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:O3uU9.4754$xE1.685589@stones...

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> > > Lol, yeah, whatever. As I said, guess it's ok for you to have > uninformed, > > preconcieved attitudes(since when does the type matter ?) about a group. > > My opinion of Nascar fans was NOT PREconcieved - my only opinion of Nascar > fans is deduced from their attitude and behaviour on sierra.com - their > attitudes and behiaviour on forums and their attitude, behaviour and > appearence on TV. > > To have an opinion based on that is neither a stereotype or racist. > > Doug

Whatever Doug; you're just trying to justify now, and doing poorly at it. If I told you that my opinion of Martians is deduced from the things you list above, what would you call me ? John > >

"John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > "Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:O3uU9.4754$xE1.685589@stones... > > > > > Lol, yeah, whatever. As I said, guess it's ok for you to have > > uninformed, > > > preconcieved attitudes(since when does the type matter ?) about a

group. > > > > My opinion of Nascar fans was NOT PREconcieved - my only opinion ofNascar

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> > fans is deduced from their attitude and behaviour on sierra.com - their > > attitudes and behiaviour on forums and their attitude, behaviour and > > appearence on TV. > > > > To have an opinion based on that is neither a stereotype or racist. > > > > Doug > > > Whatever Doug; you're just trying to justify now, and doing poorly at

it. > If I told you that my opinion of Martians is deduced from the things you > list above, what would you call me ? > > John Just to be clear, insert any group/race desired in place of Martians. John > > > > > > > >

"Marc Goldstein" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ANrU9.58416$[email hidden]... > Great post Dave, I'm with you on this one. No one cares about the American > Vipers and Vettes wining all over, but try to compete with them on their > home turf, and watch out. Of course, I'm a Canadian :) Better not tell them that most of their CART (Reynard / Lola and the Ford engine made by Cosworth in the lovely Milton Keynes) and IRL chassis ( Gforce but not Dallara - who have a UK base ) are made in the UK then God knows what would happen if you told them that some of the IRL cars ran with Nissan engines. They'd probably die of shame - OR - is it just a Nascar thing? Doug

"John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > "Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:O3uU9.4754$xE1.685589@stones... > > > > > > > Lol, yeah, whatever. As I said, guess it's ok for you to have > > > uninformed, > > > > preconcieved attitudes(since when does the type matter ?) about a > group. > > > > > > My opinion of Nascar fans was NOT PREconcieved - my only opinion of > Nascar > > > fans is deduced from their attitude and behaviour on sierra.com -

their

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> > > attitudes and behiaviour on forums and their attitude, behaviour and > > > appearence on TV. > > > > > > To have an opinion based on that is neither a stereotype or racist. > > > > > > Doug > > > > > > Whatever Doug; you're just trying to justify now, and doing poorly at

Indeed Whatever. Doug

I know that money has been a driving force in NASCAR for a very long time I'm not that blind. Things have gotten a lot worse in the last 10 years and that's the bad part. A good example of this is how we keep loosing short track races to these damn 1.5 tri-oval tracks because they have all these fancy corporate boxes. Classic tracks renaming themselves after companies. The fact that costs are so high now that a team can't run without sponsorship, or even worse teams take a bad driver with a sponsor over a good driver without one. MadDAWG

> Better not tell them that most of their CART (Reynard / Lola and the Ford > engine made by Cosworth in the lovely Milton Keynes) and IRL chassis ( > Gforce but not Dallara - who have a UK base ) are made in the UK then > > God knows what would happen if you told them that some of the IRL cars ran > with Nissan engines. They'd probably die of shame - OR - is it just aNascar > thing? > > Doug Like we care about those pointy cars. The only open wheel cars that matter have a good old American 410 or 360 V8, and a really big right rear tire. :) MadDAWG

"MadDAWG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... : > Better not tell them that most of their CART (Reynard / Lola and the Ford : > engine made by Cosworth in the lovely Milton Keynes) and IRL chassis ( : > Gforce but not Dallara - who have a UK base ) are made in the UK then : > : > God knows what would happen if you told them that some of the IRL cars ran : > with Nissan engines. They'd probably die of shame - OR - is it just a : Nascar : > thing? : > : > Doug : : : Like we care about those pointy cars. The only open wheel cars that matter : have a good old American 410 or 360 V8, and a really big right rear tire. :) Amazing what you can do with Pig Iron nowadays Doug

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > I can't figure out this Xnews newsreader yet. I can post a reply via > email or start a new thread, but I haven't figured out how to post a follow > -up to a thread. So my apologies for starting another thread. I'll > probably have to do it some more before I even figure out where the read-me > is. I use Gravity. > John was all in a tizzy about Foriegn cars joining Nascar. He felt it > was the last American sport left. It *is* the last one left (if we're talking about racing). > That never bothered me, I welcome world-wide competiton. Heck we sent > a one-nutted half dead biker over to some French bicycle race and look what > a major job of Whup-Ass he laid on them. That was the person - NOT the brand of bike. Not the same. > We had a 6 year old design of a Dodge Viper cleanup on brandnew > Ferrai's and newer Listers this past year in FIA GT racing.(ok 2k2 spec > AFTER the first race). Yes even the extra wide Chevy corvette took on the > big Euro types and with FAT American pistons took LeMans, Daytona and the > ALMS GTS series. Those are all international series. They do not have a history of limiting marques to those made within a certain country. > My feeling is, let them come, they might even kick the Yankee butt. > But they will contribute to better racing and I'm all for that..be it > Yellow, Red, Prancings Mules or French WinniethePoohjoes. We're talking NASCAR here. They outlawed true competition between manufacturers in the late 80's, and have been working to completely eliminate any advantage gained by mechanical or aero means. > So IF the Japanese come, they'll probably do it like most other > incursions, they'll hire a bunch of Yanks and team them with the Asian > Engineers and form a winning combination. You can bet if Toyota comes, > another brand or two will follow. No, they'll raise the bar of financial backing, and we'll see G, Ford, and Dodge ratchet up to meet the foreign expenditures, and this will result in less money going to the smaller teams, thus ELIMINATING competition because the smaller teams will not be able to afford to race anymore. > I guess since Alan Kulwicki won the Winston Cup title waaaay back 10 > or 12 years ago, I thought the Southern element of Nascar had gotten over > their fear of outsiders. Heck didn't a guy from Michigan win a race this > year?(For the benefit of the Euro/Asian readers, Michigan is further north > than parts of Canada...ok not MANY parts but some...) :) This has nothing to do with some unreasonable prototype of good old boys. It just so happens that Alan Kulwicki was my favorite driver (long before he won the championship), but that has nothing to do with not wanting foreign cars in cup. > Would the America's cup be getting any coverage at all if it was just > a club race between a few Brits still? That's always been an international series. > Competiton is good John. I agree, but Nascar doesn't, but I'm not talking about the level of competition. As usual, people who disagree with this opinion always cite competition, drivers, blah blah blah. I was okay with the japanese guy that ran a few races, but I knew he'd have a rough time of it because he spoke virtually no english, but he had english speaking spotters and crew members - not really much of a sporting chance if you ask me. However, a foreign-branded car goes against everything I watch Nascar for, and as I stated a year or so ago, I wll refuse to watch races or support the sport when a Toyota (or ANY foreign car for that matter) is allowed to compete in a Winston Cup race. I won't even continue to but diecast of the champion car beginning with the year Toyota starts competing. I know, big fuckin deal - one pissed off redneck refusing to buy one puny diecast car and refusing to watch any more races. Afterall, he'll be replaced by ten yuppies willing to spend big bucks on pay- per-view racing and pointless souvenirs. Let's see... What can we come up with that's even more stupid than collector fishing lures with drivers' likenesses on them?

In article <wosU9.4686$xE1.684803@stones>, [email hidden] says...

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> > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > I can't figure out this Xnews newsreader yet. I can post a reply via > > email or start a new thread, but I haven't figured out how to post a > follow > > -up to a thread. So my apologies for starting another thread. I'll > > probably have to do it some more before I even figure out where the > read-me > > is. > > > > > We had a 6 year old design of a Dodge Viper cleanup on brandnew > > Ferrai's and newer Listers this past year in FIA GT racing.(ok 2k2 spec > > AFTER the first race). Yes even the extra wide Chevy corvette took on the > > big Euro types and with FAT American pistons took LeMans, Daytona and the > > ALMS GTS series. > > > Competiton is good John. > > Agreed - American manufacturers have shown us how it's done in some fields. > Although to be fair - the single seater market is sewn up as a British > concern :P > > If Nascar fans dont want any 'outsiders' coming into their sport then my > opinions of Nascar fans in general has been right all along - and it's not a > nice opinion either. It's not much of a stretch of the imagination to > consider it Racism. >

It'sd NOT fuckin racism. I don't mind foreign drivers if they're qualified to run. How can not wanting foreign cars in a decidedly American racing series be considered racism?

In article <FftU9.4691$xE1.685264@stones>, [email hidden] says...

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> > "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > "Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:wosU9.4686$xE1.684803@stones... > > Interesting, you > > hammer on John about racism, but seem to have no qualms about holding a > > stereotypical, bigoted attitude about Nascar fans you imply. > > You dont know what my attitude of Nascar fans is. I imply it's not good - > but you dont know why or what it is > > Perhaps it's only the most vocal who 'do the damage' w.r.t. the image of > your average Nascar fan - but people like John Simmons do them NO favours > and anyone prepared to side with him on such an issue is certainly someone > who's company I'd avoid - I'm not going to be out and out racist about > things - I am not a racist person - but like it or loath it there IS a > stereotype surrounding Nascar fans - and people like John S. do a very good > job of upholding it. > > Doug > > >

Have I ever implied that I was concerned about anyone else's opinion of my opinion? I'm sure there are some people in the long list of nascar fans that feel the same way, but I'm just as sure that you'll find that most of them aren't any more "racist" than I am.

In article <O3uU9.4754$xE1.685589@stones>, [email hidden] says...

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> > > Lol, yeah, whatever. As I said, guess it's ok for you to have > uninformed, > > preconcieved attitudes(since when does the type matter ?) about a group. > > My opinion of Nascar fans was NOT PREconcieved - my only opinion of Nascar > fans is deduced from their attitude and behaviour on sierra.com - their > attitudes and behiaviour on forums and their attitude, behaviour and > appearence on TV. > > To have an opinion based on that is neither a stereotype or racist. > > Doug > > >

Gee - Nascar fans on TV - I don' t see them stoprming the track and killing a dozen or so people in the ensuing melee when theiur favorite driver doesn't do well. Oh wait, Nascar isn't anything like european soccer fans. Forgive my protypical statement... Hypocrite...

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> Gee - Nascar fans on TV - I don' > t see them stoprming the track and killing a dozen or so people in > the ensuing melee when theiur favorite driver doesn't do well. Oh > wait, Nascar isn't anything like european soccer fans. Forgive my > protypical statement... > > Hypocrite...

So Doug.....a non-football fan as it happens, is a hyprocrite for being european. You truly are a master-debater. Nice logic Ash

"Ashley McConnell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:avucbe$pe7$[email hidden]... : : > Gee - Nascar fans on TV - I don' : > t see them stoprming the track and killing a dozen or so people in : > the ensuing melee when theiur favorite driver doesn't do well. Oh : > wait, Nascar isn't anything like european soccer fans. Forgive my : > protypical statement... : > : > Hypocrite... : : So Doug.....a non-football fan as it happens, is a hyprocrite for being : european. : : You truly are a master-debater. Nice logic : : Ash Ash, you play football - you must be a mass murderer. I'm British, not European - so I dont think I count. Doug

: It'sd NOT fuckin racism. You are a lovely chap - you really are. Doug

: It'sd NOT ***in racism. You are a lovely chap - you really are. Doug

Welcome to NASCAR John. Where have you been the last 10 years? Corporate drives NASCAR now, so decisions aren't going to be based on racing, but on dollar value. If you want true racing, goto your local track. That's what you are wanting here. I bet there is a track near you. It's not going to have a NASCAR sign, but that's for the better. Toyota's coming, nothing you can do about it. And like the guy that works for Dodge said, there's nothing American left in those racecars now anyway. Nor is there anything NASCAR left in em. Like I said, where have you been? "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] > says... > > I can't figure out this Xnews newsreader yet. I can post a reply via > > email or start a new thread, but I haven't figured out how to post afollow > > -up to a thread. So my apologies for starting another thread. I'll > > probably have to do it some more before I even figure out where theread-me > > is. > > I use Gravity. > > > John was all in a tizzy about Foriegn cars joining Nascar. He feltit > > was the last American sport left. > > It *is* the last one left (if we're talking about racing). > > > That never bothered me, I welcome world-wide competiton. Heck wesent > > a one-nutted half dead biker over to some French bicycle race and lookwhat

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> > a major job of Whup-Ass he laid on them. > > That was the person - NOT the brand of bike. Not the same. > > > We had a 6 year old design of a Dodge Viper cleanup on brandnew > > Ferrai's and newer Listers this past year in FIA GT racing.(ok 2k2 spec > > AFTER the first race). Yes even the extra wide Chevy corvette took on

the > > big Euro types and with FAT American pistons took LeMans, Daytona andthe > > ALMS GTS series. > > Those are all international series. They do not have a history of > limiting marques to those made within a certain country. > > > My feeling is, let them come, they might even kick the Yankeebutt.

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> > But they will contribute to better racing and I'm all for that..be it > > Yellow, Red, Prancings Mules or French WinniethePoohjoes. > > We're talking NASCAR here. They outlawed true competition between > manufacturers in the late 80's, and have been working to completely > eliminate any advantage gained by mechanical or aero means. > > > So IF the Japanese come, they'll probably do it like most other > > incursions, they'll hire a bunch of Yanks and team them with the Asian > > Engineers and form a winning combination. You can bet if Toyota comes, > > another brand or two will follow. > > No, they'll raise the bar of financial backing, and we'll see G, > Ford, and Dodge ratchet up to meet the foreign expenditures, and this > will result in less money going to the smaller teams, thus > ELIMINATING competition because the smaller teams will not be able to > afford to race anymore. > > > I guess since Alan Kulwicki won the Winston Cup title waaaay back

10 > > or 12 years ago, I thought the Southern element of Nascar had gottenover > > their fear of outsiders. Heck didn't a guy from Michigan win a racethis > > year?(For the benefit of the Euro/Asian readers, Michigan is furthernorth

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> > than parts of Canada...ok not MANY parts but some...) :) > > This has nothing to do with some unreasonable prototype of good old > boys. It just so happens that Alan Kulwicki was my favorite driver > (long before he won the championship), but that has nothing to do > with not wanting foreign cars in cup. > > > Would the America's cup be getting any coverage at all if it was

just

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> > a club race between a few Brits still? > > That's always been an international series. > > > Competiton is good John. > > I agree, but Nascar doesn't, but I'm not talking about the level of > competition. > > As usual, people who disagree with this opinion always cite > competition, drivers, blah blah blah. I was okay with the japanese > guy that ran a few races, but I knew he'd have a rough time of it > because he spoke virtually no english, but he had english speaking > spotters and crew members - not really much of a sporting chance if > you ask me. > > However, a foreign-branded car goes against everything I watch Nascar > for, and as I stated a year or so ago, I wll refuse to watch races or > support the sport when a Toyota (or ANY foreign car for that matter) > is allowed to compete in a Winston Cup race. I won't even continue > to but diecast of the champion car beginning with the year Toyota > starts competing. > > I know, big fuckin deal - one pissed off redneck refusing to buy one > puny diecast car and refusing to watch any more races. Afterall, > he'll be replaced by ten yuppies willing to spend big bucks on pay- > per-view racing and pointless souvenirs. Let's see... What can we > come up with that's even more stupid than collector fishing lures > with drivers' likenesses on them? > > > > >

"Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote here on 13 Jan 2003: > Ash, you play football - you must be a mass murderer. > > I'm British, not European - so I dont think I count. Um... what continent do we live in, then? Just stirring (as if this thread needed it!)... -- Above address *is* valid - but snip spamtrap to get me to *read*! Bits'n'Bob-stones: http://www.geocities.com/daveb75

On Mon, 13 Jan 2003 05:46:31 -0000, "Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote: >If Nascar fans dont want any 'outsiders' coming into their sport then my >opinions of Nascar fans in general has been right all along - and it's not a >nice opinion either. It's not much of a stretch of the imagination to >consider it Racism. They're afraid of a high-technology invasion in NASCAR, like using a laptop to store the proper carb settings for different conditions. -Scott Johnson "The United States of America will not live at the mercy of any group or regime that has the motive and seeks the power to murder Americans on a massive scale." -President GWB 11/8/2002

TDR did you hear? September 19/20 the non winged guys won the vote. Can't wait for that race. I hope the turn out is as big as the late model million. My friends from upstate NY that came down for the DIRT mods are coming back and with a two day race its gonna be one hell of a party. MadDAWG

In all fairness - what's the prob with John's desire. Even I as a foreigner have a hard time imagining a Hoyasuka as a Stock Car, even if it technically were. It's like saying an Ibanez Stratocaster copy is a Stratocaster - it's not, and you can tell by the sound (and because the Ibanez is technically much better made <g> but lacks the flair of a true Fender) and how the thing feels in your hands. It's not like John's trying to exlude aspiring sportsmen from competing with others based on their nationality or something. A car manufacturer's decision to participate in a racing series usually isn't made out of sportsmanly interest, but because they want to sell more cars. I.e., John most likely isn't excluding sportsmen, but businessmen. I know you can still see it the other way around, but I can understand John's desire. It's just a surprise that such a young man as him already has so romantic feelings about these issues ;-) How would you feel about a Mercedes S class car John, or about a Bentley? ;-) Achim

The only rule that is being bent here is the one that says the cars must be manufactured in the United States. Toyota has assembly plants in the US, but does not actually manufacture the cars or trucks here (Unless someone else has more recent information.) I am against this counting as manufactured in America. Mostly because it helps the Japanese continue their unfair trade practices in regards to the rest of the world. But since that appears to not be a concern for NASCAR or the UAW who sponsor NASCAR I guess it is a non-issue. I think it will be interesting to have foreign marques in Formula NASCAR. I just worry that this will help drive the cost to field a team up further, then when these foreign companies grow bored with this type of racing, what will be left? (I mean haven't most of the Japanese companies stated that they don't want to race a series that uses motor and technology that is not a plus for R&D?)

Good point about Japan's highly unfair int'l trade practices. They've been allowed to sell to our latitudes freely and fairly for decades, but still continue to make it extremely hard for us to sell to Japan. "cheeto" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:OHBU9.111076$[email hidden]... ... > Mostly because it helps the Japanese continue their unfair trade practices > in regards to the rest of the world.

>start a new series like the Aussie V8's! I started watching those over the Xmas break on Speed. That series kicks ass. I'd love to see Papy do a V8 game/sim. Been thinking about seeing if I can do it NR2002 somehow. :) MadDAWG

cheeto wrote: > The only rule that is being bent here is the one that says the cars must be > manufactured in the United States. Toyota has assembly plants in the US, but > does not actually manufacture the cars or trucks here (Unless someone else > has more recent information.) Camrys, Avalons, and Siennas are made just outside Lexington, in Georgetown, KY. I toured this plant several years ago. All the sheetmetal is stamped on-site, and other components are sourced in the U.S. They're as American, content-wise, as most of the Big 3's offerings. I believe Tacomas are made at a California plant, and some Corollas are U.S.-built too. So when are we going to kick out the Monte Carlo, since it's built in Ontario? Aren't there some Mexican-built Intrepids too? -jde

John Hilsman wrote: > Racist: > 2. Discrimination or prejudice based on race. Agreed, therefore the charge of racism sticks. NASCAR already has foreign (non-US owned) automakers involved. But sinced Dodge is owned by Germans & shares the same race with the majority, it's perceived as no big deal. Japanese cars on the other hand... different race. Race is all that separates Dodge from Toyota insofar as this discussion is concerned. That being said, I don't think John is that bad of a guy. We all have our faults. Am I getting soft??? -- Fester Bad spellers of the world UNTIE!

"J.D. Ellis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > cheeto wrote: > > The only rule that is being bent here is the one that says the cars mustbe > > manufactured in the United States. Toyota has assembly plants in the US,but > > does not actually manufacture the cars or trucks here (Unless someoneelse

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> > has more recent information.) > > Camrys, Avalons, and Siennas are made just outside Lexington, in > Georgetown, KY. I toured this plant several years ago. All the > sheetmetal is stamped on-site, and other components are sourced in the > U.S. They're as American, content-wise, as most of the Big 3's offerings. > > I believe Tacomas are made at a California plant, and some Corollas are > U.S.-built too. > > So when are we going to kick out the Monte Carlo, since it's built in > Ontario? Aren't there some Mexican-built Intrepids too? > > -jde

If that is the case, then there is really nothing wrong with Toyota being allowed to race in NASCAR. I know some people don't like the thought of it, but it is legal. Someone has mentioned Diamler owning Chrysler, but the cars are still built here. (And after NAFTA here is considered America North and South.... Canada and Mexico... and that was a joke.)

John Hilsman <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]:

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> On Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:33:06 -0500, "MadDAWG" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > >>>start a new series like the Aussie V8's! >> >>I started watching those over the Xmas break on Speed. That series >>kicks ass. I'd love to see Papy do a V8 game/sim. Been thinking about >>seeing if I can do it NR2002 somehow. :) > > > Same here, and the WRC special over New Years too :) It would be > awesome to see Papy do something with either of those! >

There already is a project to 'skin' the N2k2 cars as Aussie V8's. I don't think they are working on physics or tracks, but they have supplied a full field of Aussie Super cars to install in N2k2. RacesimCentral probably has the screenshots in the forums. And there is a Mod in the works for F1 2k2 that will simulate the Aussie cars. At first it was a port of the already completed F1 2k1 mod, but I think they are shooting for some improvements. At least ONE Aussie track has been released(Phillip Island) in a final form so once somebody converts or recreates Bathhurst, the Aussies will have a couple of places to run. dave henrie

MadDAWG wrote: > > >start a new series like the Aussie V8's! > > I started watching those over the Xmas break on Speed. That series kicks > ass. I'd love to see Papy do a V8 game/sim. Been thinking about seeing if I > can do it NR2002 somehow. :) I feel my work here has been worthwile.....<sheads a tear> <sniff sniff> Someone beat me to it, and not just to spite me, what a great day this is <sniff sniff> Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

> I feel my work here has been worthwile.....<sheads a tear> Well you can take pride in the fact that when I saw the first ad for them I said to myself. "WTF I gotta see what Goy has been raving about". And as they say the rest is history. MadDAWG

Here is what I was thinking of doing just for the quick and dirty. 1. The Falcon and Holden skins that are floating around on the net. 2. Use some of the GPL tracks thru the converter. I know they are not the right tracks, but they seem better suited than the newer tracks in F12002. The races I have watched have been on track that have a good flow to them and don't have crap put in to slow the cars down. 3. Set the tracks up as a plate track since the aussie cars don't have as much hp or run as high of rpms as a Cup car. Like I said its nothing great, but it will put that NR2002 cd to some use finally MadDAWG

MadDAWG wrote: > > > I feel my work here has been worthwile.....<sheads a tear> > > Well you can take pride in the fact that when I saw the first ad for them I > said to myself. "WTF I gotta see what Goy has been raving about". And as > they say the rest is history. Thx Mad :-) One of the guys at "The Pits" has recorded several of these races and has converted them to SVCD's and shipped them to me, haven't had a chance to look at them yet, my DVD player has packed it in it seems as it starts to play them half way through and is refusing to play a lot of original DVD's as well Have you seen this ? :-) http://www.thenorwaypits.com\temp\94bath.wmv ? Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

>If you want true racing, goto your local track. That's what > you are wanting here. I bet there is a track near you. It's not going to > have a NASCAR sign, My sons and I are at any of the 3 local dirt tracks every Sat. night during the summer. Best racing I've ever seen. But just wanted to say, they're all NASCAR sanctioned tracks. They all have the NASCAR sign. I wonder how this would effect the small teams and guys starting out. A lot of drivers I've talked to have hopes of moving up maybe all the way to Winston Cup. Would a decision to allow Toyota make it easier or harder for them? Bill Berry

Goy Larsen wrote: > > Have you seen this ? :-) > <sigh> http://www.thenorwaypits.com/temp/94bath.wmv ? Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

MadDAWG wrote:

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> > Here is what I was thinking of doing just for the quick and dirty. > > 1. The Falcon and Holden skins that are floating around on the net. > 2. Use some of the GPL tracks thru the converter. I know they are not the > right tracks, but they seem better suited than the newer tracks in F12002. > The races I have watched have been on track that have a good flow to them > and don't have crap put in to slow the cars down. > 3. Set the tracks up as a plate track since the aussie cars don't have as > much hp or run as high of rpms as a Cup car. > > Like I said its nothing great, but it will put that NR2002 cd to some use > finally

I'd skip the plate thing, realism is one thing but with the plates on it's just too tame, and those cars are anything but tame, objectively speaking....:-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

Yep, but it's not going to be 1 million to win. Kinda cool, but the Late Models still hold the king of BIG races at Eldora. :) Good for the non-wing sprinters. Shame I will be there the week before, but I may have to make a week of it and stay for it. Never take down camp. <g> "MadDAWG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > TDR did you hear? September 19/20 the non winged guys won the vote. Can't > wait for that race. I hope the turn out is as big as the late modelmillion. > My friends from upstate NY that came down for the DIRT mods are comingback > and with a two day race its gonna be one hell of a party. > > MadDAWG > >

In article <mmzU9.82540$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> Welcome to NASCAR John. Where have you been the last 10 years? Corporate > drives NASCAR now, so decisions aren't going to be based on racing, but on > dollar value. If you want true racing, goto your local track. That's what > you are wanting here. I bet there is a track near you. It's not going to > have a NASCAR sign, but that's for the better. Toyota's coming, nothing you > can do about it. And like the guy that works for Dodge said, there's > nothing American left in those racecars now anyway. Nor is there anything > NASCAR left in em. Like I said, where have you been?

I never once implied that I didn't know the lay of the land, I simply voiced my opinion. I don't give a rat's ass about Nascar's bottom line. I do care about Toyota's "right" to enter a car I don't give a flyin f*ck about where the parts that constitute a car come from. I'm not talking about lesser series' and the cars that compete there. I simply don't want foreign f*ckin cars in Winston Cup (or Busch for that matter). It's ALL about the f*ckin nameplate. And yes, I *will* stop watching Nascar races when a Toyota (or any other foreign car for that matter) rolls out onto the grid the first time in a Winston Cup race. Will it change anything? NO (and that's a *resounding* NO). So I guess you can see that I am aware of my surroundings. But I don't have to f*ckin like it. Have I made my point yet?

In article <avuouq$k3kk3$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > In all fairness - what's the prob with John's desire. > > ...snip... > > How would you feel about a Mercedes S class car John, or about a Bentley? > ;-) Not only no, but F*CK no. :)

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > Bigot: One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, > race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ > That means everyone here who disagrees with me is a bigot. I'm offering a differing viewpoint, and they're intolerant. That makes me a persecuted victim. Crap. Now I'm a minority...

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > That being said, I don't think John is that bad of a guy. We all have > our faults. Am I getting soft??? I'm not. :) I just say the things others want to say but are afraid to for fear of persecution. :)

says... I'm not. :) I just say the things others want to say but are afraid to for fear of persecution. :)

John Simmons wrote:

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> > In article <[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] says... > > Bigot: One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, > > race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ > > > > That means everyone here who disagrees with me is a bigot. I'm > offering a differing viewpoint, and they're intolerant. > > That makes me a persecuted victim. > > Crap. Now I'm a minority...

Actually, you're an endangered specie (sp)....:-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

No but marketing seems to think they do, and thank god for that or all that sponsorship money would dry up real fast. ;o) "Damien Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:avtfsh$j91n0$[email hidden]... > > Do those tanks resemble anything you can buy on Monday? I certainly hope > not. > >

Good points, all. "MadDAWG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I know that money has been a driving force in NASCAR for a very long time > I'm not that blind. Things have gotten a lot worse in the last 10 yearsand

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> that's the bad part. A good example of this is how we keep loosing short > track races to these damn 1.5 tri-oval tracks because they have all these > fancy corporate boxes. Classic tracks renaming themselves after companies. > The fact that costs are so high now that a team can't run without > sponsorship, or even worse teams take a bad driver with a sponsor over a > good driver without one. > > MadDAWG > >

Venusian? "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > If I told you that my opinion of Martians is deduced from the things you > list above, what would you call me ? > > John >

Actually it is practically the definition of stereotyping. Do you know any of them personally? If not, you are stereotyping them based on their average behavior. "Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:O3uU9.4754$xE1.685589@stones...

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> > > My opinion of Nascar fans was NOT PREconcieved - my only opinion of Nascar > fans is deduced from their attitude and behaviour on sierra.com - their > attitudes and behiaviour on forums and their attitude, behaviour and > appearence on TV. > > To have an opinion based on that is neither a stereotype or racist. > > Doug > >

Nope, they are all Canadian. "J.D. Ellis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > Aren't there some Mexican-built Intrepids too? > > -jde >

> > I'm not. :) > > I just say the things others want to say but are afraid to for fear > of persecution. :) You say them because you think you can get away with it tucked behind your monitor in a some motor home park in East Yokel, Tennessee. I saw you coming miles away, redneck. And if I'm still on your black list, then hopefully someone will pass on my message to you.

"redTed" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:avvj7i$jqu92$[email hidden]...

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> > > > > I'm not. :) > > > > I just say the things others want to say but are afraid to for fear > > of persecution. :) > > You say them because you think you can get away with it tucked behind your > monitor in a some motor home park in East Yokel, Tennessee. > I saw you coming miles away, redneck. And if I'm still on your black list, > then hopefully someone will pass on my message to you.

I'm inclined to agree, and do the honours ;-) Malc.

"Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:avvhe9$k0p2q$[email hidden]... > Nope, they are all Canadian. > > > Aren't there some Mexican-built Intrepids too? Gotcha. I knew there were "cloud cars" built in Mexico. Still, it exposes the hypocrisy. There's at least 2 cars in NASCAR which aren't 'Murrican. ;-) I'm pretty sure all Tauruses are U.S. Not sure which plant the GP comes from. -jde

Malc wrote: > > I'm inclined to agree Ted is wrong, I was kinda wondering how long it would take for him to post to this thread, betting on that would give me about the same odds as Schumacher winning the drivers title for 2002 ..... Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

<g> "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... ... > Not only no, but F*CK no. :)

"Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > > Malc wrote: > > > > I'm inclined to agree > > Ted is wrong

Just announcing 'Ted is wrong' apparently as a general statement of fact rather than 'I don't agree because...<insert reason why you think John Simmons has a good point here>' seems a bit odd. Presumably what you were trying to say was that John Simmons doesn't live in a motor home park in East Yokel, Tennessee, which seems pretty obvious imo. Perhaps you were referring to something else? ;-) Malc.

> I started watching those over the Xmas break on Speed. That series kicks > ass. I'd love to see Papy do a V8 game/sim. Been thinking about seeing ifI > can do it NR2002 somehow. :) Just a casual lurker here. Anyway, the Aussie division of EA Sports actually has a V8 Challenge game. Unfortunately, there isn't a demo, but you can check it out online at www.easports.com.au. I'm in the States myself, so don't bother asking me if it's any good. :) Alan

In article <[email hidden]>, MadDAWG <[email hidden]> writes <snipped nascar for the USA only> So, if Michael Schumacher said he fancied racing in NASCAR next season, you'd say, 'No! He's a foreigner.' Wouldn't you quite fancy the idea of some of those rednecks taking on Mr Schu and banging a few fenders with him. Seeing him sent into the wall a few times. Doesn't the idea just appeal a little, just because he's not from the good 'ol USofA. -- Peter Ives (AKA Pete Ivington) Remove ALL_STRESS before replying via email If you know what's good for you, don't listen to me :) GPLRank Joystick -50.63 Wheel -21.77

"Damien Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:avtfsh$j91n0$[email hidden]... > > Why do you think the American manufacturers are in it? The saying "Winon > > Sunday sell on Monday" goes back a looong ways in NASCAR. > > Do those tanks resemble anything you can buy on Monday? I certainly hope > not. Hell, I wish they did...and at one time, they were exactly what you could buy on Monday, barring the minor changes here and there that each team tried ;) Milhouse

> God knows what would happen if you told them that some of the IRL cars ran > with Nissan engines. They'd probably die of shame - OR - is it just aNascar > thing? Not anymore they don't. At least, I thought Inifniti was pulling out of top-level IRL -completely- for the lower-level stuff... Milhouse

"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... <snip> On one hand, I can see why someone would loathe the idea of "imports" (they're getting less and less imported these days but that's another topic in itself) getting into NASCAR... But on the other...I don't think the comparisons between Toyota getting in and removing short-tracks are fair. Removing short-tracks, IMO, does hurt what NASCAR 'is' - while I like the 1.5 mile ovals because they produce great racing, many of my favorite races are on the mile-and-smaller flat tracks where you can crunch a fender or two and not give a damn about what it would do to your aero because you hardly ever got going that fast. That's a big part of what NASCAR is to me. But, NASCAR was never limited on nationality of the manufacturer - it's just that the rules and conditions of the market have made it unfeasible until now. The Japanese didn't even really get into the market until the '60s at the earliest from what I can tell (I'm a mere 19 years old so it's not like I was there, heh) and everything they built then...and most of what they build now...were/are small compacts with small, economical engines. In the '60s, rules made it quite prohibitive, simply because then a car had to be honest-to-god stock. A four-cylinder CVCC or Corolla would have been slaughtered on the track against the 350-and-up cubic inch V8 monsters from GM, Mopar, and FoMoCo. It would have made very little business sense for Honda or Toyota to develop a car that could compete on the track with those cars, especially when they were selling the exact opposite so well. Now, however, the conditions are absolutely perfect for Toyota or Honda to get into it. The Big Three - when counting the 'traditional' divisions like Chevrolet, Ford, Dodge, and Pontiac, and excluding foreign-based properties like Mercedes-Benz, Volvo, and Opel - are quickly decreasing to a sub-50% market share nationwide (USA, that is), and that's including the absolutely massive amounts of trucks each sells. GM itself is trying to get back -up- to 29%, and I think that's even including Saab. (Granted, they also own Opel, Vauxhall, and Holden, but they don't sell any of those here under those names...at least we'll get a Holden as a GTO :) NASCAR is an -excellent- way to push products, whether as a sponsor or a manufacturer. How many times have you seen a Monte Carlo SS with either a Dale Earnhardt 3 or a D.E. Jr. 8 on the back window? I think it's easily the most common car I've seen those on...and I seriously doubt the Monte would be selling nearly as well if it weren't for its existence in NASCAR. (Namely because I think modern Montes are rather blah cars compared to what else even GM offers, let alone the imports in that segment.) I haven't a clue what Toyota's market share is, but it's gotta be a decent-sized chunk. Regardless...they've got the money to compete and they're making a big motorsports push as it is (F1, anyone?). And the rules are such that they -can- compete; given that the car only now has to resemble a production car in appearance, they can afford to develop a 358-cube pushrod V8 (which, in all honesty, is about as much as the manufacturer has to do these days; that, draft up decals, and bitch when NASCAR changes a template). I say, bring them on/in. Maybe some more manufacturers, but I can't think of any other than Honda or maybe Nissan that would go in...the rest are either controlled by manufacturers already in it (Mazda, Saab, Volvo), don't have the financial capability (Hyundai, Kia, etc) or don't have any interest whatsoever (I don't predict a NASCAR BMW or Porsche anytime soon, if ever). Milhouse

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> > > I can't figure out this Xnews newsreader yet. I can post a reply via >email or start a new thread, but I haven't figured out how to post a follow >-up to a thread. So my apologies for starting another thread. I'll >probably have to do it some more before I even figure out where the read-me >is.

Try "follow-up to newsgroup." Or switch to WinVN. -Tim

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... >Will it change anything? NO (and that's a *resounding* NO). So I >guess you can see that I am aware of my surroundings. But I don't >have to f*ckin like it. > >Have I made my point yet? Well, we've all been able to draw concrete conclusions, that's for sure. -Tim

"The Enigmatic One" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:skRU9.3322$[email hidden]... > In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]says...

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> > >Will it change anything? NO (and that's a *resounding* NO). So I > >guess you can see that I am aware of my surroundings. But I don't > >have to f*ckin like it. > > > >Have I made my point yet? > > Well, we've all been able to draw concrete conclusions, that's for sure. > >

Who the hell is "we"? Do you speak for this group? Do you speak for ANYONE other than "The Enigmatic One"? You certainly don't speak for me, so lose the "we" bullshit. BTW, the only thing concrete is your cranium since you fail to grasp the simple point (in this and the other thread); John reveres his view of "NASCAR Tradition" (a view I DO NOT SHARE so I'm not biased and I could really care less). You see the world through misguided glasses which espouses this oversimplified (and unsavory) dichotomy of either politically correct or racist. Here's a little tip for you Tim; between black and white there are 254 shades of gray. Learn to see the gray. Oh shit, I said "black" instead of African American. ;0) -- Joe M. > -Tim >

Milhouse wrote: > How many times have you seen a Monte Carlo SS with either a Dale Earnhardt 3 > or a D.E. Jr. 8 on the back window? I think it's easily the most common car > I've seen those on... I see even more on Toyota trucks and other imports. :) NASCAR fans aren't the brand loyal drones we're told they are. -jde

John Simmons <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > However, a foreign-branded car goes against everything I watch Nascar > for, and as I stated a year or so ago, I wll refuse to watch races or > support the sport when a Toyota (or ANY foreign car for that matter) > is allowed to compete in a Winston Cup race. I won't even continue > to but diecast of the champion car beginning with the year Toyota > starts competing. Hey, who really owns Dodge? Your exodus is a little late, I'm afraid. The only reason I watch the races is because I enjoy watching them race. If you watch them for some other reason you are probably wasting your time or missing the point. I really don't care who wins the manufacturers championship. As long as is ain't a goddamn FORD. LOL. But seriously, why give a shit if it says Toyota? It won't be one, any more than the Chevys are real Monte Carlos, etc. The races will still feature dirty, stinky, loud fans, err.. cars, going around in circles and drinking beer. I'll be right there, Gerald

"Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > > John Simmons wrote: > > > > In article <[email hidden]>, > > [email hidden] says... > > > Bigot: One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, > > > race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ > > > > > > > That means everyone here who disagrees with me is a bigot. I'm > > offering a differing viewpoint, and they're intolerant. > > > > That makes me a persecuted victim. > > > > Crap. Now I'm a minority... > > Actually, you're an endangered specie (sp)....:-) > >

Yes, he's part of a dying breed of Americans with two-balls and vocal chords (aka Homo Sapiens Vocalus Opinionatedum). We are systematically being replaced by emasculated wagina-men who gleefully trumpet PC pablum. ;0) <stirring the melting pot> -- Joe M.

"Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > > Malc wrote: > > > > I'm inclined to agree > > Ted is wrong, I was kinda wondering how long it would take for him to > post to this thread, betting on that would give me about the same odds > as Schumacher winning the drivers title for 2002 ..... >

I may be wrong about lots of things, but Mr.J.Simmons isn't one of them. Lets count how many abusive and rude comments he has made to various subscribers to this group over the years, shall we ? You sticking up for him is just "good old boy's" shit. And it stinks. Play a new tune.

> Have I ever implied that I was concerned about anyone else's opinion > of my opinion? Yes - or you would never have posted it in here

Malc wrote:

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> > Just announcing 'Ted is wrong' apparently as a general statement of fact > rather than 'I don't agree because...<insert reason why you think John > Simmons has a good point here>' seems a bit odd. > > Presumably what you were trying to say was that John Simmons doesn't live in > a motor home park in East Yokel, Tennessee, which seems pretty obvious imo. > > Perhaps you were referring to something else? ;-)

Yes I was, but I can't be bothered to go in detail as to why I believe Ted is wrong, first of all it would take too long and secondly I don't want John to get all embarrassed :-), you're a pretty smart guy Malc, observe and you'll soon figure out why a lot of people appreciate John, like most of the guys who used to run in his league I agree that my comment was a tad cryptic perhaps, but it was merely to make you take notice and have a second look, which is why I replied to you instead of Ted Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

redTed wrote: > > I may be wrong about lots of things, but Mr.J.Simmons isn't one of them. > Lets count how many abusive and rude comments he has made to various > subscribers to this group over the years, shall we ? > You sticking up for him is just "good old boy's" shit. And it stinks. > Play a new tune. You're really not a good judge of characters are you, I stick up for him, if this can be called that, because he's worth it Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

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> redTed wrote: > > > > I may be wrong about lots of things, but Mr.J.Simmons isn't one of them. > > Lets count how many abusive and rude comments he has made to various > > subscribers to this group over the years, shall we ? > > You sticking up for him is just "good old boy's" shit. And it stinks. > > Play a new tune. > > You're really not a good judge of characters are you, I stick up for > him, if this can be called that, because he's worth it >

I think I'm an excellent judge of character, but then, don't we all. But Simmons has proved time and again that he is obnoxious and bigoted, not just to me personally, but to many others. If you can't see that, then you're the one with the problem.

> > You sticking up for him is just "good old boy's" shit. And itstinks. > > Play a new tune. > > You're really not a good judge of characters are you, I stick up for > him, if this can be called that, because he's worth it You're going to make John cry in a minute, Goy :) John sticks up for what he believes in. Usenet has a habit of turning what would be a fun debate between friends in the pub to a full on brawl. John isn't prepared to lay back and take it and why should he? In this case I wouldn't agree with John's stance on the post being deleted but that is hardly going to turn us against each other, yet the racism crap is just plain abusive and out of order. So don't be surprised to get some back. > you'll soon figure out why a lot of people appreciate John, > like most of the guys who used to run in his league Spot on. Hell I'm gonna cry too... Tony

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> > > Yes, he's part of a dying breed of Americans with two-balls and vocal chords > (aka Homo Sapiens Vocalus Opinionatedum). We are systematically being > replaced by emasculated wagina-men who gleefully trumpet PC pablum. ;0) > <stirring the melting pot> > > -- > Joe M. > > > >

"wagina men" ROFLMAO! Goy's cool, leave him be... :)

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> On Mon, 13 Jan 2003 22:37:27 GMT, John Simmons <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >In article <[email hidden]>, > >[email hidden] says... > >> Bigot: One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, > >> race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ > >> > > > >That means everyone here who disagrees with me is a bigot. I'm > >offering a differing viewpoint, and they're intolerant. > > > >That makes me a persecuted victim. > > > >Crap. Now I'm a minority... > > > LOL - where's the ACLU when ya need them? On the other side, you are > probably eligible for some 'free' government money now! >

There's no such thing as free money, and if the government is involved, they'll want it back - in spades. :)

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> > > redTed wrote: > > > > I may be wrong about lots of things, but Mr.J.Simmons isn't one of them. > > Lets count how many abusive and rude comments he has made to various > > subscribers to this group over the years, shall we ? > > You sticking up for him is just "good old boy's" shit. And it stinks. > > Play a new tune. > > You're really not a good judge of characters are you, I stick up for > him, if this can be called that, because he's worth it >

Yeah Ted, and I'll add a carefully constructed response of my own... NEENER-FUCKIN-NEENER! I purposefully kept it short for you and yours (all having the apparent mental capacity of a ball bearing). Goy is anything but a "good ol' boy". He's articulate, concise, and not nearly as much of an asshole as I am.

> In this case I wouldn't agree with John's stance on the post being > deleted but that is hardly going to turn us against each other, yet the > racism crap is just plain abusive and out of order. So don't be > surprised to get some back. >I'd be very surprised to get some back as the man himself has blocked me long ago. You see, I had the audacity to argue with him on certain points and his response to any criticism normally, is to run away. Remember when he threw his toys out because he was getting whooped on Rascar ? What happened then ? I'm aware of the "good old boys" network in here, and I don't give a crap about it. So, fire away on Simmons' behalf as he can't actually stand up for himself.

John Simmons wrote: > > Goy's cool, leave him be... :) Coming from an ultra conservative, ultra patriotic redneck like yourself I'm not sure if that's a compliment, next thing I'll be invited over for Mountain Oysters.... Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

> > Goy's cool, leave him be... :) > > Coming from an ultra conservative, ultra patriotic redneck likeyourself > I'm not sure if that's a compliment, next thing I'll be invited overfor > Mountain Oysters.... LOL !!

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> > > John Simmons wrote: > > > > Goy's cool, leave him be... :) > > Coming from an ultra conservative, ultra patriotic redneck like yourself > I'm not sure if that's a compliment, next thing I'll be invited over for > Mountain Oysters.... > >

I can guarantee freshness, too... :)

redTed wrote: > > I think I'm an excellent judge of character, but then, don't we all. But > Simmons has proved time and again that he is obnoxious and bigoted, not just > to me personally, but to many others. If you can't see that, then you're the > one with the problem. Listen mate, I know you have some issues with John about something, quite honestly I have no idea but it wouldn't surprise me one bit if it had something to do with the lettering on your car not being proper for a Nascar or something, but really, if you can't see past what you believe to be obnoxious and bigoted behavior, then you aren't such a good judge of character as you think you are I'll be the first to admit that I'm doing some of the same when it comes to you, a lot of my opinion of you has been formed by the way you've taken it upon yourself to take cheap shots at John whenever the opp presents itself, which is probably unfair to you Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

> > In this case I wouldn't agree with John's stance on the post being > > deleted but that is hardly going to turn us against each other, yetthe > > racism crap is just plain abusive and out of order. So don't be > > surprised to get some back. > > > I'd be very surprised to get some back as the man himself has blockedme > long ago. You see, I had the audacity to argue with him on certainpoints > and his response to any criticism normally, is to run away. Rememberwhen he > threw his toys out because he was getting whooped on Rascar ? Whathappened > then ? Then the thread about his decal post gets very muddled if it is an opportunity to revisit previous spats. So be it. > I'm aware of the "good old boys" network in here, and I don't give acrap > about it. So, fire away on Simmons' behalf as he can't actually standup for > himself. No, John stands up for himself whilst we good old boys cringe...

"Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Yes I was, but I can't be bothered to go in detail as to why I believe > Ted is wrong, first of all it would take too long and secondly I don't > want John to get all embarrassed :-), you're a pretty smart guy Malc, > observe and you'll soon figure out why a lot of people appreciate John, > like most of the guys who used to run in his league I don't doubt that he's a decent enough chap, most people are within their own circle of friends, but there are ways to present oneself and ones opinions on a public and international forum in a much more diplomatic and coherent way, that are rather less likely to start a flame war. It's an important lesson that more people should learn. I'm not a big NASCAR fan, and I don't really have a strong opinion on the Toyota debate, but I strongly dissaprove of John reinforcing the current public (British, at any rate) general opinion that Americans think their country is the best & feel they must say so at every opportunity. Everyone thinks their own country is 'the best', but telling a foreigner that won't change their opinion about their own country, it'll just piss them off. I'll not harp on about freedom like John and others have, I'll just go right ahead and USE that freedom of speech that he doesn't think I have. John, if you don't want your message to the world to be misunderstood by, in Goy's words 'a pretty smart guy' then make it less ambiguous. There's nothing wrong with not liking Toyotas, I don't particularly like them either, but there's one hell of a lot wrong with not liking the Japanese and that's the message you inadvertantly put out. There's no journalistic spin on a flame war, it's just lots of people reacting in the predictable way that crowds do. Crowds have acted this way throughout history. You not caring about other people's opinions won't change the fact that THEY care about their feelings, and THEY don't like having them upset by YOU. Ever heard of the story of "Pandora's Box"? Ever heard the phrase "An Eye for an Eye"? Or my personal favourite, "Stiff upper lip old chap." These are stories you are taught at school, because they are important social lessons in how to behave. And Goy, I don't take sides, I'm on MY side. Unlike redTed however, I don't bear grudges, and I appreciate what you're trying to do. Malc.

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> > Yeah Ted, and I'll add a carefully constructed response of my own... > > NEENER-FUCKIN-NEENER! > I purposefully kept it short for you and yours (all having the > apparent mental capacity of a ball bearing). > > Goy is anything but a "good ol' boy". He's articulate, concise, and > not nearly as much of an asshole as I am. >

After all this time that's the best you can do ? Better put me back in your kill-file before get yourself all stressed out again, Cletus. Oh yeah, forgot to mention my car is a Nissan GTI. Very nice, very fast and very Japanese.

"Goy Larsen" wrote: > And yes, I guess some of us thinks of some of those others in here who > has been around for as long some of us have as "friends" in some way, > but you're reading way too much into this mate So you are saying you are not my best mate after all <sob> Well you know what you can do with your damn V8s <G>

redTed wrote: > > I'm aware of the "good old boys" network in here, and I don't give a crap > about it. If that really exists, then I'm offended about not having even been approached, I've been lurking since 95 and posting since 96, I'm a member of one of the oldest sim racing sites still in existence and I used to be a very active sim racer I've earned my dues dammit !!! Guess I'm not as popular around here as I thought I was, I'm shocked......... Joke aside, there's no "good old boys" network in here, some of us has been around for quite a number of years and know each other well, this means that sometimes there will be an inside joke or something, or we'll remeniss (sp) about "old times", which is something you can't be a part of unless "you were there" And yes, I guess some of us thinks of some of those others in here who has been around for as long some of us have as "friends" in some way, but you're reading way too much into this mate Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

"redTed" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:b026jr$kjiqc$[email hidden]... > Oh yeah, forgot to mention my car is a Nissan GTI. Very nice, very fastand > very Japanese. I've got a Rover. It's got lots of chrome. Different people want different things out of their cars. It's allowed. Malc.

"John Simmons" wrote: > NEENER-FUCKIN-NEENER! You get turned down for the post as negotiator in Iraq again, John?

> NEENER-***IN-NEENER! You get turned down for the post as negotiator in Iraq again, John?

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> > Listen mate, I know you have some issues with John about something, > quite honestly I have no idea but it wouldn't surprise me one bit if it > had something to do with the lettering on your car not being proper for > a Nascar or something, but really, if you can't see past what you > believe to be obnoxious and bigoted behavior, then you aren't such a > good judge of character as you think you are > > I'll be the first to admit that I'm doing some of the same when it comes > to you, a lot of my opinion of you has been formed by the way you've > taken it upon yourself to take cheap shots at John whenever the opp > presents itself, which is probably unfair to you > >

I do bear a grudge against him, as Malc pointed out. It has nothing to do with anyone in this group. He knows what went on and so do a few others, they just play hear no evil etc.... Cheap shots are all I've got here. He took his a while back and then ducked for cover. So I'm entitled to mine now. If he wants to clear the air in some way, then I'm all for it. But I think we all know what the real J.Simmons is like and how he will respond to this. I don't hold grudges against anyone else in here(even Mr.Ellison), but if you want to stand up for Simmons, and that is your right, don't expect to come out unscathed. The really ironic thing is, this whole thing was started when J.Simmons responded in a pretty vicious and un warranted way to a post I made in here directed at the (then)WSC team to "put up or shut up". Seems like big John has changed his tune regarding the West's, but he hasn't had the decency to offer an apology to me over the things he said.

"redTed" wrote: > Better put me back in your kill-file before get yourself all stressedout > again, Cletus. Ok, so that *did* make me laugh!

Malc wrote: > <snip> > And Goy, I don't take sides, I'm on MY side. Unlike redTed however, I don't > bear grudges, and I appreciate what you're trying to do. Fair enough, I'm not on a mission to make the whole world appreciate John Simmons, first of all that's impossible as we all know :-) and he really could care less, but on the other hand, people have been handing out "labels" that simply don't fit, labels that should be saved for more important issues Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

Tony Rickard wrote:

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> > "Goy Larsen" wrote: > > > And yes, I guess some of us thinks of some of those others in here who > > has been around for as long some of us have as "friends" in some way, > > but you're reading way too much into this mate > > So you are saying you are not my best mate after all <sob>

I don't even know you.....do I ? > Well you know what you can do with your damn V8s <G> Yeah, put it on the top podium spot at Bull Run :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

I hate Toyota. I wouldn't own one for nothing. Period. I drive a chevy that would blow the doors of a toyota. Its a chevy prizm to be exact. Toyota can't match it, much less beat it. What really pisses me off most about Toyota is that I have to teach ideas and concepts mastered at Toyota to the ignorant native Americans that I call my brothers who can not seem to grasp even that most basic principals. Toyota took our teachings and APPLIED what they learned. They even stole our (Amercian) technology, re-engineered it, introduced it to the market, and effectively became a dangerous competitor. A competitor that became the Hunter instead of the Hunted. I fear, when they are allowed to compete at Nascar, that their quest for perfection at every step and their mentality to eliminate defects where and when they occur, will have far reaching consequences with the old school now racing. Be it the owners, drivers, or mechanics. To be perfectly honest, they may even raise the bar and force change in processes that otherwise would not have taken place during our lifetime. I respect Toyota and the progress that they have made in the last 25 years. Always respect your competitor. Learn from them. If your company or industry has not been taken over by these types of companys (modeled after Toyota), its not a question of if. Its a question of when. They will when they get ready. I know. I live this nighmare every single day. Sorry for the glooom and doom. grubbat "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (7 lines)

> In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] > says... > > > > > > redTed wrote: > > > > > > I may be wrong about lots of things, but Mr.J.Simmons isn't one of

them.

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> > > Lets count how many abusive and rude comments he has made to various > > > subscribers to this group over the years, shall we ? > > > You sticking up for him is just "good old boy's" shit. And it stinks. > > > Play a new tune. > > > > You're really not a good judge of characters are you, I stick up for > > him, if this can be called that, because he's worth it > > > > Yeah Ted, and I'll add a carefully constructed response of my own... > > > > > > NEENER-FUCKIN-NEENER! > > > > > > I purposefully kept it short for you and yours (all having the > apparent mental capacity of a ball bearing). > > Goy is anything but a "good ol' boy". He's articulate, concise, and > not nearly as much of an asshole as I am. > > >

"Goy Larsen" wrote: > > > And yes, I guess some of us thinks of some of those others in herewho > > > has been around for as long some of us have as "friends" in someway, > > > but you're reading way too much into this mate > > > > So you are saying you are not my best mate after all <sob> > > I don't even know you.....do I ? Now that really hurts! You must have replied to at least 2 of my posts. Admittedly they did mention Aussie V8s but that is not the point. I thought we had something and now this...

"grubbat" wrote: > I hate Toyota. I wouldn't own one for nothing. Period. > I drive a chevy that would blow the doors of a toyota. Its a chevyprizm to > be exact. Toyota can't match it, much less beat it. Yep, that's redTed beat for sure - killer blow...

"redTed" wrote... > <snip> > Oh yeah, forgot to mention my car is a Nissan GTI. > Very nice, very fast and very Japanese. I will grant you comfortable, pretty quick if you rev the shit out of it and a lot of stick. BUT, not nice to drive. No way, no how... unless you spent a fortune upgrading the suspension. Jan. =---

> > Now that really hurts! You must have replied to at least 2 of myposts. > > Admittedly they did mention Aussie V8s but that is not the point. I > > thought we had something and now this... > > Husted is right, old age is catching up here, what was Ithinking....can > you forgive me.....mate ? > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy Awe....go on then <hug>

Tony Rickard wrote:

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> > "Goy Larsen" wrote: > > > > And yes, I guess some of us thinks of some of those others in here > who > > > > has been around for as long some of us have as "friends" in some > way, > > > > but you're reading way too much into this mate > > > > > > So you are saying you are not my best mate after all <sob> > > > > I don't even know you.....do I ? > > Now that really hurts! You must have replied to at least 2 of my posts. > Admittedly they did mention Aussie V8s but that is not the point. I > thought we had something and now this...

Husted is right, old age is catching up here, what was I thinking....can you forgive me.....mate ? Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

"grubbat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I hate Toyota. I wouldn't own one for nothing. Period. > Sorry for the glooom and doom. I know how you feel, it was like that in England with Honda, then BMW running Rover, but you just have to move with the times when you're running a company, and sometimes that means making tough decisions just to stay in the game. Malc.

redTed wrote: > > I do bear a grudge against him, as Malc pointed out. It has nothing to do > with anyone in this group. He knows what went on and so do a few others, > they just play hear no evil etc.... Maybe they really don't care enough to get in on either side ? > Cheap shots are all I've got here. He took his a while back and then ducked > for cover. So I'm entitled to mine now. If he wants to clear the air in some > way, then I'm all for it. But I think we all know what the real J.Simmons > is like and how he will respond to this. Probably not at all, he has stated several times he believes apologizing is a sign of weakness, you don't expect him to go back on that do you ? :-) > I don't hold grudges against anyone else in here(even Mr.Ellison), but if > you want to stand up for Simmons, and that is your right, don't expect to > come out unscathed. I don't take myself seriously mate.....:-), besides, I'm not famous for my diplomatic skills > The really ironic thing is, this whole thing was started when J.Simmons > responded in a pretty vicious and un warranted way to a post I made in here > directed at the (then)WSC team to "put up or shut up". Seems like big John > has changed his tune regarding the West's, but he hasn't had the decency to > offer an apology to me over the things he said. See above....:-), your choice mate, but if you're going to be part of whatever community we have in the future, you should also remember that you are also building a rep for yourself And with that hopefully un-confrontational post, it was certainly intended that way, I'm done with the "serious" part of this thread and will now concentrate on exchanging jokes with Tony and some of the other guys in the "old boys network".....(yes, that was an attempt at a joke :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

Tony Rickard wrote: > > Awe....go on then <hug> Have a beer mate, I tasted some rather excellent "Reverend James Red Label" while on a trip to Wales last summer, maybe this place carries it........hey Gov....no.....how about Abbot's then.....excellent Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

"Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Yw1V9.12427$[email hidden]... > "redTed" wrote... > > <snip> > > Oh yeah, forgot to mention my car is a Nissan GTI. > > Very nice, very fast and very Japanese. > > I will grant you comfortable, pretty quick if you rev the shit out of itand > a lot of stick. BUT, not nice to drive. No way, no how... unless you spenta > fortune upgrading the suspension. >I think revving the shit out of fast cars and giving them a lot of stick goes without saying, doesn't it ? The rather tall, Phil Short took it for a drive couple of years ago when he spent some time at an Audi/VW dealership I worked at, and he seemed to think the suspension was decent ;) I'll take his word for it.

In article <a21V9.13048$4k6.1155273@wards>, [email hidden] says...

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> "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > Yes I was, but I can't be bothered to go in detail as to why I believe > > Ted is wrong, first of all it would take too long and secondly I don't > > want John to get all embarrassed :-), you're a pretty smart guy Malc, > > observe and you'll soon figure out why a lot of people appreciate John, > > like most of the guys who used to run in his league > > I don't doubt that he's a decent enough chap, most people are within their > own circle of friends, but there are ways to present oneself and ones > opinions on a public and international forum in a much more diplomatic and > coherent way, that are rather less likely to start a flame war. It's an > important lesson that more people should learn.

I'm not a politician, and I don't pretend to like something when I don't. I know it's an international forum. :) > I'm not a big NASCAR fan, and I don't really have a strong opinion on the > Toyota debate, but I strongly dissaprove of John reinforcing the current > public (British, at any rate) general opinion that Americans think their > country is the best & feel they must say so at every opportunity. Everyone > thinks their own country is 'the best', but telling a foreigner that won't > change their opinion about their own country, it'll just piss them off. I never once claimed that the USA was "the best". I am merely concerned about a valued (by me) tradition that is going to be completely eroded away. > I'll not harp on about freedom like John and others have, I'll just go right > ahead and USE that freedom of speech that he doesn't think I have. > > John, if you don't want your message to the world to be misunderstood by, in > Goy's words 'a pretty smart guy' then make it less ambiguous. I am honestly not sure how less ambiguous I can be about the subject at hand. > There's nothing wrong with not liking Toyotas, I don't particularly like > them either, but there's one hell of a lot wrong with not liking the > Japanese and that's the message you inadvertantly put out. There's no > journalistic spin on a flame war, it's just lots of people reacting in the > predictable way that crowds do. I think Toyotas are probably very fine automobiles, and the few Japanese I've met and know are fine people. That is not the issue. > Crowds have acted this way throughout history. You not caring about other > people's opinions won't change the fact that THEY care about their feelings, > and THEY don't like having them upset by YOU. But it's my job... I'm old, don't take that away from me. > Ever heard of the story of "Pandora's Box"? > Ever heard the phrase "An Eye for an Eye"? > Or my personal favourite, "Stiff upper lip old chap." > > These are stories you are taught at school, because they are important > social lessons in how to behave. I know how to behave (and I haven't put my elbows on the table or picked my nose at the dinner table in almost a year). > And Goy, I don't take sides, I'm on MY side. Unlike redTed however, I don't > bear grudges, and I appreciate what you're trying to do. That's quite accurate. :)

"Tony Rickard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Ru1V9.3782$[email hidden]...

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> "grubbat" wrote: > > > I hate Toyota. I wouldn't own one for nothing. Period. > > I drive a chevy that would blow the doors of a toyota. Its a chevy > prizm to > > be exact. Toyota can't match it, much less beat it. > > Yep, that's redTed beat for sure - killer blow... >

Apart from my car being a Nissan Almera . And I doubt very much that a Chevy Jizm with it's " a.. Feisty 1.8 Liter 16-valve engine" (or whatever it's called) could blow the dust off it, let alone the doors. http://www.rogerpalmen.com/prizm.htm This ????????

In article <lf1V9.3762$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > "John Simmons" wrote: > > > NEENER-FUCKIN-NEENER! > > You get turned down for the post as negotiator in Iraq again, John? > Yeah, but only because I complained about my allergic reaction to terrycloth... :)

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> > > Malc wrote: > > > <snip> > > And Goy, I don't take sides, I'm on MY side. Unlike redTed however, I don't > > bear grudges, and I appreciate what you're trying to do. > > Fair enough, I'm not on a mission to make the whole world appreciate > John Simmons, first of all that's impossible as we all know :-) and he > really could care less, but on the other hand, people have been handing > out "labels" that simply don't fit, labels that should be saved for more > important issues > > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > http://www.theuspits.com > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" > --Groucho Marx-- >

I don't use labels. I prefer to nail a board to someone's head and paint on it.

> If your company or industry has not been taken over by these types of > companys (modeled after Toyota), its not a question of if. Its a questionof > when. They will when they get ready. I know. I live this nighmare every > single day. > Sorry for the glooom and doom. > So while you were sitting on your arse munching hot-dogs and watching daytime chat shows, the Japanese were working hard and playing harder. Bastards. Don't they have any respect for American culture ?

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> > > redTed wrote: > > > > I do bear a grudge against him, as Malc pointed out. It has nothing to do > > with anyone in this group. He knows what went on and so do a few others, > > they just play hear no evil etc.... > > Maybe they really don't care enough to get in on either side ? > > > Cheap shots are all I've got here. He took his a while back and then ducked > > for cover. So I'm entitled to mine now. If he wants to clear the air in some > > way, then I'm all for it. But I think we all know what the real J.Simmons > > is like and how he will respond to this. > > Probably not at all, he has stated several times he believes apologizing > is a sign of weakness, you don't expect him to go back on that do you ? > :-)

I've been thinking about it, and I can't think of anything that I need to apologize for...

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> > I don't hold grudges against anyone else in here(even Mr.Ellison), but if > > you want to stand up for Simmons, and that is your right, don't expect to > > come out unscathed. > > I don't take myself seriously mate.....:-), besides, I'm not famous for > my diplomatic skills > > > The really ironic thing is, this whole thing was started when J.Simmons > > responded in a pretty vicious and un warranted way to a post I made in here > > directed at the (then)WSC team to "put up or shut up". Seems like big John > > has changed his tune regarding the West's, but he hasn't had the decency to > > offer an apology to me over the things he said. > > See above....:-), your choice mate, but if you're going to be part of > whatever community we have in the future, you should also remember that > you are also building a rep for yourself

I'm just plain fun to be around (and Ted could learn a lesson or two there). Ted has never done anything but attacked anything I've said, no matter what the subject might be. He doesn't do it because he wants to provide insightful comentary, he does it simply because it's me. I honestly don't know what his real name is, so I don't know if I've ever done anything to piss him off on purpose (before he showed up here), but since I've kill-filed him, the only thing I see is when he makes a complete ass of himself in replies to someone else.

"redTed" wrote... > I think revving the shit out of fast cars and giving them > a lot of stick goes without saying, doesn't it ? Hmmm... I don't mind revving what the engine can pull, but the ergonomics of the pedals and gearshift are such you have to make too big a movement for the speed you have to perform it at. Also, all the stick in the world won't help you jack if you can't tell how much of it you are using at any given time. > The rather tall, Phil Short took it for a drive couple of > years ago when he spent some time at an Audi/VW dealership > I worked at, and he seemed to think the suspension was > decent ;) I'll take his word for it. Heh... while ago a guy named Brian Short announced here he was too tall to fit a Caterham R500, which I thought was quite ironic too, but nobody picked up on that it seems. Anyhow, as a fellow owner of a sporty Nissan 3-door hatch (on of those real life compromises you come to regret pretty soon after making them), I have to disagree with both of you. It's not too bad... once it takes its set in a corner it's quite progressive and predictable, neigh forgiving. It's just vague and fairly unresponsive on turn in/direction change. It's very hard to make an educated guess at how aggressively a particular corner can be driven (compared to other cars I've driven). That said, it's not hard to get yourself out of trouble due to it's basic understeering nature, so it's not too dangerous to drive it in a "banzai" way (which, in a way, is very Japanese). It's just quite embarrassing to ride out the "plough" and not very refined. Drive a Lotus Elise or even a mark I Golf and get back to me. Jan. =---

"John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > That's quite accurate. :) Who are you and what have you done with John Simmons?? ;-) Malc.

John Simmons wrote: > I don't use labels. I prefer to nail a board to someone's head and > paint on it. ROTFLMMFAO!!! -- Fester One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.

well well, what has the grub caught here...... I believe that I have got me a fish with that worm,, none other than redted himself. I'm gonna have to mount this one on the wall. A fine catch indeed. Anybody want to explain the bait to redted? Nevermind, I'll just leave here in my blazing Chevy prism and keep redted guessing in the nissan jap dust. On second thought, I'm throwing you back in redted and fish with a smaller worm. grub "redTed" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:b02a07$kovjh$[email hidden]...

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> > "Tony Rickard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:Ru1V9.3782$[email hidden]... > > "grubbat" wrote: > > > > > I hate Toyota. I wouldn't own one for nothing. Period. > > > I drive a chevy that would blow the doors of a toyota. Its a chevy > > prizm to > > > be exact. Toyota can't match it, much less beat it. > > > > Yep, that's redTed beat for sure - killer blow... > > > Apart from my car being a Nissan Almera . And I doubt very much that a

Chevy > Jizm with it's " > a.. Feisty 1.8 Liter 16-valve engine" (or whatever it's called) could blow > the dust off it, let alone the doors. > http://www.rogerpalmen.com/prizm.htm This ???????? > >

In article <[email hidden]>, John Simmons <[email hidden]> writes: >not nearly as much of an asshole as I am. *Nobody* is, John...<g> Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:-0.381 N2002 Rank:+17.59 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <avuouq$k3kk3$[email hidden]>, "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> writes: >Even I as a foreigner have a hard time imagining a Hoyasuka as a Stock Car, >even if it technically were. It's like saying an Ibanez Stratocaster copy is >a Stratocaster - it's not, and you can tell by the sound (and because the >Ibanez is technically much better made <g> but lack Well, my Strat copy isn't as good as Ibanez, but I still like it...<g> Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:-0.381 N2002 Rank:+17.59 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, John Simmons <[email hidden]> writes: >What can we >come up with that's even more stupid than collector fishing lures >with drivers' likenesses on them? > You're kidding, right? Collector FISHING lures?!? Amazing some of the shit people buy... :-( Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:-0.381 N2002 Rank:+17.59 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <2$$[email hidden]>, Peter Ives <[email hidden]> writes:

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>In article <[email hidden]>, MadDAWG ><[email hidden]> writes > ><snipped nascar for the USA only> > >So, if Michael Schumacher said he fancied racing in NASCAR next season, >you'd say, 'No! He's a foreigner.' > >Wouldn't you quite fancy the idea of some of those rednecks taking on Mr >Schu and banging a few fenders with him. Seeing him sent into the wall >a few times. Doesn't the idea just appeal a little, just because he's >not from the good 'ol USofA.

Nah, I'm not interested in someone wrecking Michael just because he's a foreigner. Personally, I'd love to see him drive in NASCAR, CART, IRL, whatever. Why? He's one of the best drivers in the WORLD. Doesn't matter that he's not my favorite driver, or even my favorite in F1. I'd love to see how the best drivers in any series match up. We had that in the 70's and before. Many Europeans came here and drove Champ cars(or at least at Indy). Many Champ car drivers drove in NASCAR. Hell, even the IROC series was worthwhile before they eliminated the road course tracks and weighted it towards NASCAR. It's about competion between drivers. Well, so I *thought*... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:-0.381 N2002 Rank:+17.59 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"grubbat" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]: > I hate Toyota. I wouldn't own one for nothing. Period. > I drive a chevy that would blow the doors of a toyota. Its a chevy > prizm to be exact. Toyota can't match it, much less beat it. > HEY GRUB! Have you looked where the Prism came from? Here's a quick quote from a website..... NUMMI is a joint GM/Toyota factory that produces the Toyota Corolla/Chevy Prism cars and the Toyota Tacoma pickup truck. We have arranged to visit at 6.30 pm and the tour will include the following Damn if that Chevy is only skin deep, underneath it is all Toyota. dave henrie

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <2$$[email hidden]>, Peter Ives > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >In article <[email hidden]>, MadDAWG > ><[email hidden]> writes > > > ><snipped nascar for the USA only> > > > >So, if Michael Schumacher said he fancied racing in NASCAR next season, > >you'd say, 'No! He's a foreigner.' > > > >Wouldn't you quite fancy the idea of some of those rednecks taking on Mr > >Schu and banging a few fenders with him. Seeing him sent into the wall > >a few times. Doesn't the idea just appeal a little, just because he's > >not from the good 'ol USofA. > > Nah, I'm not interested in someone wrecking Michael just because he's a > foreigner. Personally, I'd love to see him drive in NASCAR, CART, IRL, > whatever. Why? He's one of the best drivers in the WORLD. Doesn't

matter > that he's not my favorite driver, or even my favorite in F1. I'd love tosee > how the best drivers in any series match up. We had that in the 70's and > before. Many Europeans came here and drove Champ cars(or at least atIndy). > Many Champ car drivers drove in NASCAR. Hell, even the IROC series was > worthwhile before they eliminated the road course tracks and weighted it > towards NASCAR. It's about competion between drivers. Well, so I*thought*... > > Eldred I wonder if you say these quotes form Stewart? In an interview with The Times, Stewart said: "Let's get real. They've just won for three years. Before that, they hadn't won for 21 years. This is sport - things don't always go the way you'd like them to. It would be nice if a different person won every race; it would be nice if different manufacturers won every year. But sport isn't fair. "The job of sport is not to share the honours out equally. The job of sport is to find the strongest, fastest, highest, longest, whatever. In 1971, I won six out of the first eight races. It was OK then, no one said a word other than to congratulate me. Today, the public, apparently, demands fair competition and that means everyone coming up to the line together does it? And a different driver winning every time?" "I believe Schumacher is still on the way up," added Stewart. "If he's got five world titles to his name already, I could see him getting another three or four, maybe more. I would not be at all surprised if the nonsense over the past few months has made him even more determined to stay at the top for longer." David G Fisher

"Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > redTed wrote: > > > > I'm aware of the "good old boys" network in here, and I don't give acrap

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> > about it. > > If that really exists, then I'm offended about not having even been > approached, I've been lurking since 95 and posting since 96, I'm a > member of one of the oldest sim racing sites still in existence and I > used to be a very active sim racer > > I've earned my dues dammit !!! > > Guess I'm not as popular around here as I thought I was, I'm > shocked......... > > Joke aside, there's no "good old boys" network in here,

Oh, yes there is. You don't obtain membership by being approached, you gain membership by saying the right things. David G Fisher

Joe M. wrote: > racist. Here's a little tip for you Tim; between black and white there are > 254 shades of gray. Learn to see the gray. Oh shit, I said "black" instead Don't take such a narrow view of the world. In the medical imagine world, there are usually at least 4094 shades of grey between black & white. :-)

This thread is priceless! I DO understand where J.S. is coming from. First of all I have 2 Hondas in my garage right now..A 2001 Odyssey and a 2002 Civic EX 5 spd. coupe. I LOVE both of them and will continue to buy "JAP" products as I always have. In fact it doesn't really matter WHO makes the product I use as long as it's better than the brand next to it and I'm willing to pay the price if it happens to be more expensive. I'm sure Mr. Simmons has similar feelings about the products he uses every day. I'm QUITE sure that Mr. Simmons has plenty of "JAP" products he uses on a daily basis. BUT.........I see his point as a way to hold on to some of the last things that are 100% American in content. SURE most of the products that are used to promote NASCAR are probably made in China or Malaysia or Indonesia OR...JAPAN! ( caps, piggy-banks, toys etc.) WHO CARES...It's still an AMERICAN Institution. It's like the ALAMO.... fighting the impossible odds to hold on to what you stand for knowing that, in time, it will be to no avail. Toyota WILL come...and Nascar WILL feel less American to us Americans...and then other "Non-American" manufactures will come and then the flood of "Non-American" drivers and then one day, it's basically considered an International sport...originating in the USA. Mr. Simmons I'm sure, is a fine, patriotic and passionate young man...He just has a VERY tactless and un-gentlemanly way of expressing his views! SpeedRat

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> In article <[email hidden]>, John Simmons > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >What can we > >come up with that's even more stupid than collector fishing lures > >with drivers' likenesses on them? > > > > You're kidding, right? Collector FISHING lures?!? Amazing some of the shit > people buy... :-(

Yeah, amazing ain't it?

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> "grubbat" <[email hidden]> wrote in > news:[email hidden]: > > > I hate Toyota. I wouldn't own one for nothing. Period. > > I drive a chevy that would blow the doors of a toyota. Its a chevy > > prizm to be exact. Toyota can't match it, much less beat it. > > > > HEY GRUB! Have you looked where the Prism came from? > Here's a quick quote from a website..... > > NUMMI is a joint GM/Toyota factory that produces the Toyota Corolla/Chevy > Prism cars and the Toyota Tacoma pickup truck. We have arranged to visit at > 6.30 pm and the tour will include the following > > Damn if that Chevy is only skin deep, underneath it is all Toyota. > dave henrie >

Ummmm, I thiink he already knew that... :)

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> >"Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> >> >>redTed wrote: >>> >>>I'm aware of the "good old boys" network in here, and I don't >>>give a crap about it. >> >> Joke aside, there's no "good old boys" network in here, > >Oh, yes there is. You don't obtain membership by being >approached, you gain membership by saying the right >things. >

Then how did I get in (if I'm in)?

Hi Achim, How is this "unfair"? Let's assume that such alleged practices are "wrong" - the US government allows the Japanese government to adopt certain practices - these practices are good for the Japanese people, therefore the Japanese goverment continues to do it. Is the Japanese government wrong for doing what is best for the people who voted them in, or is the other government wrong for continuing to allow them to do it? Then the angle, "is it wrong"? Japanese companies make cars in America for three reasons ; a) Because they would be considered badly if making in Japan and exporting. b) It's more cost effective to make in the US. and by far the most important, c) because people from the US want to buy and drive those cars. If the products were not good, people wouldn't want to buy them. If people didn't want to buy them, the "problem" goes away. John "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:avupln$ju6b0$[email hidden]...

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> Good point about Japan's highly unfair int'l trade practices. They've been > allowed to sell to our latitudes freely and fairly for decades, but still > continue to make it extremely hard for us to sell to Japan. > > > "cheeto" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:OHBU9.111076$[email hidden]... > ... > > Mostly because it helps the Japanese continue their unfair trade

practices > > in regards to the rest of the world. > >

:-) Achim "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... ... > Well, my Strat copy isn't as good as Ibanez, but I still like it...<g>...

"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In an interview with The Times, Stewart said: "Let's get real. They've just > won for three years. Before that, they hadn't won for 21 years. This is > sport - things don't always go the way you'd like them to. It would be nice > if a different person won every race; it would be nice if different > manufacturers won every year. But sport isn't fair. AMEN Brother!

John Simmons

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>> >> > I hate Toyota. I wouldn't own one for nothing. Period. >> > I drive a chevy that would blow the doors of a toyota. Its a chevy >> > prizm to be exact. Toyota can't match it, much less beat it. >> > >> >> HEY GRUB! Have you looked where the Prism came from? >> Here's a quick quote from a website..... >> >> NUMMI is a joint GM/Toyota factory that produces the Toyota >> Corolla/Chevy Prism cars and the Toyota Tacoma pickup truck. We have >> arranged to visit at 6.30 pm and the tour will include the following >> >> Damn if that Chevy is only skin deep, underneath it is all Toyota. >> dave henrie >> > > Ummmm, I thiink he already knew that... :)

yeah but I wanted to make sure all the others did too... The more ya know...the more. you.... dave henrie

"grubbat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > well well, what has the grub caught here...... > I believe that I have got me a fish with that worm,, none other thanredted > himself. > I'm gonna have to mount this one on the wall. A fine catch indeed. > > Anybody want to explain the bait to redted? Nevermind, I'll just leavehere > in my blazing Chevy prism and keep redted guessing in the nissan jap dust. > > On second thought, I'm throwing you back in redted and fish with a smaller > worm. > > grub Yep, you got me. Should have seen it coming from such a skilled angler. 1-0

> Have a beer mate, I tasted some rather excellent "Reverend James Red > Label" while on a trip to Wales last summer, maybe this place carries > it........hey Gov....no.....how about Abbot's then.....excellent > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy I never trust a place you have to pay to get back out of!

"John Simmons" wrote... > > <snip> > > Then how did I get in (if I'm in)? You're not. Because it's not there. It's just inconceivable to some people can really like Papyrus simulations (especially 4-year old ones <g>) and so they have to invent a conspiracy theory to make sense of it to themselves. Jan. ;-) =---

Tony Rickard wrote:

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> > > Have a beer mate, I tasted some rather excellent "Reverend James Red > > Label" while on a trip to Wales last summer, maybe this place carries > > it........hey Gov....no.....how about Abbot's then.....excellent > > > > Beers and cheers > > (uncle) Goy > > I never trust a place you have to pay to get back out of!

ROFL Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

David G Fisher wrote: > > > Joke aside, there's no "good old boys" network in here, > > Oh, yes there is. You don't obtain membership by being approached, you gain > membership by saying the right things. Guess I keep saying the wrong things then, yet I don't *feel* left out Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

grubbat wrote: > I hate Toyota. I wouldn't own one for nothing. Period. > I drive a chevy that would blow the doors of a toyota. Its a chevy prizm to > be exact. Toyota can't match it, much less beat it. Are you going for irony, or do you not realize that Toyota built said Prizm (see Corolla, Toyota)? -jde

Thanks Dave. I got two fish with one cast. Not bad for an ole grub like myself. "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> John Simmons > >> > >> > I hate Toyota. I wouldn't own one for nothing. Period. > >> > I drive a chevy that would blow the doors of a toyota. Its a chevy > >> > prizm to be exact. Toyota can't match it, much less beat it. > >> > > >> > >> HEY GRUB! Have you looked where the Prism came from? > >> Here's a quick quote from a website..... > >> > >> NUMMI is a joint GM/Toyota factory that produces the Toyota > >> Corolla/Chevy Prism cars and the Toyota Tacoma pickup truck. We have > >> arranged to visit at 6.30 pm and the tour will include the following > >> > >> Damn if that Chevy is only skin deep, underneath it is all Toyota. > >> dave henrie > >> > > > > Ummmm, I thiink he already knew that... :) > > yeah but I wanted to make sure all the others did too... > The more ya know...the more. you.... > dave henrie > >

Thanks redted. I really didn't know who would bite. Ya'll made my day. Now I am going to get back under my rock and eat some bark while reading the threads. grub "redTed" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:b04598$ln0fd$[email hidden]...

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> > "grubbat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > well well, what has the grub caught here...... > > I believe that I have got me a fish with that worm,, none other than > redted > > himself. > > I'm gonna have to mount this one on the wall. A fine catch indeed. > > > > Anybody want to explain the bait to redted? Nevermind, I'll just leave > here > > in my blazing Chevy prism and keep redted guessing in the nissan jap

dust. > > > > On second thought, I'm throwing you back in redted and fish with asmaller

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> > worm. > > > > grub > > Yep, you got me. Should have seen it coming from such a skilled angler. > 1-0 > >

J.D, Thanks for the correction. Only thing is, I kinda knew that but was, like, fishing you know. And, well, I got a couple of hits from some nice trophys hangers. Even redted bit and sent me a website of the lovely chevy prism. After being chastized by my significant other, I am now appologing to all the fish that I caught or wounded using live bait. It wasn't fair and I will try to be a model sportsman in the future and keep my poaching to a minimal. Your sincereness in correcting my sinister error is appreciated and quite simulatiing . :) grub "J.D. Ellis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > grubbat wrote: > > I hate Toyota. I wouldn't own one for nothing. Period. > > I drive a chevy that would blow the doors of a toyota. Its a chevy prizmto

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> > be exact. Toyota can't match it, much less beat it. > > Are you going for irony, or do you not realize that Toyota built said > Prizm (see Corolla, Toyota)? > > -jde > >

"Catch and release" eh? "grubbat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > J.D, > Thanks for the correction. Only thing is, I kinda knew that but was, like, > fishing you know. And, well, I got a couple of hits from some nice trophys > hangers. Even redted bit and sent me a website of the lovely chevy prism. > After being chastized by my significant other, I am now appologing to all > the fish that I caught or wounded using live bait. It wasn't fair and Iwill > try to be a model sportsman in the future and keep my poaching to aminimal. > Your sincereness in correcting my sinister error is appreciated and quite > simulatiing . > :) > grub > >

grubbat wrote: > J.D, > Thanks for the correction. Only thing is, I kinda knew that but was, like, > fishing you know. No worries. I replied before reading further into the thread. :) -jde

In article <[email hidden]>, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted text (26 lines)

>> Many Champ car drivers drove in NASCAR. Hell, even the IROC series was >> worthwhile before they eliminated the road course tracks and weighted it >> towards NASCAR. It's about competion between drivers. Well, so I >*thought*... >> >> Eldred > >I wonder if you say these quotes form Stewart? > >In an interview with The Times, Stewart said: "Let's get real. They've just >won for three years. Before that, they hadn't won for 21 years. This is >sport - things don't always go the way you'd like them to. It would be nice >if a different person won every race; it would be nice if different >manufacturers won every year. But sport isn't fair. >"The job of sport is not to share the honours out equally. The job of sport >is to find the strongest, fastest, highest, longest, whatever. In 1971, I >won six out of the first eight races. It was OK then, no one said a word >other than to congratulate me. Today, the public, apparently, demands fair >competition and that means everyone coming up to the line together does it? >And a different driver winning every time?" > >"I believe Schumacher is still on the way up," added Stewart. "If he's got >five world titles to his name already, I could see him getting another three >or four, maybe more. I would not be at all surprised if the nonsense over >the past few months has made him even more determined to stay at the top for >longer."

Nope - I hadn't seen that. Did Stewart dominate those 6 races the way Ferrari currently dominates? Just curious. Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:-0.381 N2002 Rank:+17.59 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.