Want a serious sim cockpit?

You do? then get a BRD Race Frame pro. I just bought mine and its awesome, to see/hear about it go here: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/petergagg/p26pics.htm Best buy I've made in ages.... 8-)

P Gagg wrote:

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> > You do? then get a BRD Race Frame pro. > > I just bought mine and its awesome, to see/hear about it go here: > > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/petergagg/p26pics.htm > > Best buy I've made in ages.... > > 8-)

The problem with that bit of kit is the monitor is way too far from the driver. Gerry

True. Now if you hooked it up to a 51" HDTV (like with component outputs from ATI cards) that wouldn't be an issue! :-) "Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> P Gagg wrote: > > > > You do? then get a BRD Race Frame pro. > > > > I just bought mine and its awesome, to see/hear about it go here: > > > > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/petergagg/p26pics.htm > > > > Best buy I've made in ages.... > > > > 8-) > > The problem with that bit of kit is the monitor is way too far from the > driver. > > Gerry

PositiveG wrote: > > True. > > Now if you hooked it up to a 51" HDTV (like with component outputs from ATI > cards) that wouldn't be an issue! :-) Yeah, but they should have designed it better in the first place by pulling the monitor forward and up, to just behind the wheel. Gerry

> The problem with that bit of kit is the monitor is way too far from the > driver. Well, Gerry, Thats quite a sweeping statement bearing in mind the only info (I presumne you have) is from the photo. So, a couple of things you should know. First, this photo was taken immediately after I'd built the race frame pro and I hadn't actually connected everything up, monitor, pc, etc. I just placed the monitor anywhere on the stand and took the photos. Second, The monitor stand is quite large and can accommodate quite large monitors (up to 21" with ease) and you can position the monitor anywhere on the monitor stand that is comfortable for you, moving it both backwards and forwards as is needed. You could also easily adjust the height of the monitor, and the steering column base is also infinitely adjustable for height, rake, etc. In afct almost everything on the race frame pro is variable so it should suit aalmost anyone of any size or shape. Third, I have now moved my own monitor (17") a bit nearer to the seat. There is further room to move it even closer, but I think its fine where it is now. Lastly, whether its too close or too far will also depend on the individual using the race frame pro, how good there eyesight is, how big the monitor is, what resolution is being used, etc, etc. I think the race frame pro is an awesome bit of kit, well made, and good value for money...but thats just my opinion... *Peter* - http://www.cix.co.uk/~peterpc/home.html

[email hidden] wrote:

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> > > The problem with that bit of kit is the monitor is way too far from the > > driver. > > Well, Gerry, Thats quite a sweeping statement bearing in mind the only > info (I presumne you have) is from the photo. So, a couple of things you > should know.

I've used one.

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> First, this photo was taken immediately after I'd built the race frame pro > and I hadn't actually connected everything up, monitor, pc, etc. I just > placed the monitor anywhere on the stand and took the photos. > > Second, The monitor stand is quite large and can accommodate quite large > monitors (up to 21" with ease) and you can position the monitor anywhere > on the monitor stand that is comfortable for you, moving it both backwards > and forwards as is needed. You could also easily adjust the height of the > monitor, and the steering column base is also infinitely adjustable for > height, rake, etc. In afct almost everything on the race frame pro is > variable so it should suit aalmost anyone of any size or shape. > > Third, I have now moved my own monitor (17") a bit nearer to the seat. > There is further room to move it even closer, but I think its fine where > it is now. > > Lastly, whether its too close or too far will also depend on the > individual using the race frame pro, how good there eyesight is, how big > the monitor is, what resolution is being used, etc, etc. > > I think the race frame pro is an awesome bit of kit, well made, and good > value for money...but thats just my opinion...

Yes, it is well made, but no matter what you do you won't get the monitor as close s I would like to see it. Currently my 22" monitor is 24" away from my face, with a fresnel lens in front of it, to give me maximum immersion. All I'm saying is the design isn't flexible enough in regard to the placement of the monitor. Gerry

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> Yes, it is well made, but no matter what you do you won't get the > monitor as close s I would like to see it. Currently my 22" monitor is > 24" away from my face, with a fresnel lens in front of it, to give me > maximum immersion. All I'm saying is the design isn't flexible enough in > regard to the placement of the monitor. > Gerry

Ok Gerry, I'm sorry, but you are wrong, the race frame pro can be easily adapted to place the monitor exactly where you want it (and even closer than you currently have yours) as you will see below. I've now taken some time and measured my Race Frame Pro (to be accurate) and I'd like to make a couple of points: Firstly, you don't say which Race Frame Pro you used? or for how long you used it? I have the newest version (v2) which has more adjustment than the first version, so obviously they may have improved on the one you used. Secondly, If you have your monitor as close as possible to the driver/seat, and you have the seat as far forward as is possible (eg: making the driver as close to the monitor as possible) the gap is around 16" between the drivers eyes and the monitor screen. And the wheel I am using (A BRD F1 Sim) sticks out from the steering column base quite a lot (approx 5"). There are a lot of wheels (which can all be used with the race frame pro) that do not stick out as much and thus, would allow the driver to be even nearer to the screen. Although I'm not sure why anyone would want to have their face pressed against the monitor screen! I feel that if a person cannot adequately see a monitor screen which is around 16" in front of you, then they have serious eyesight problems. I am lucky enough to have almost perfect vision, I do not need glasses or lenses of any kind. My own personal set-up of the race frame pro has the monitor approximately 34" to 36" from my eyes, and I can see the monitor perfectly adequately. However, if I needed to, I could easily move the monitor closer as stated above. In fact I was under the impression that it now good practice to be at least 24" (two feet) away from any monitor if you are using it for any long periods to avoid eye strain, headaches, etc. As stated above mine is just under three feet away and is fine for me. To recap: If the race frame pro were being used by a midget and set-up for its minimum distance between screen and driver, the distance between eyes and screen is roughly 16" If the race frame pro were used by a giant and set up for its maximum distance between monitor and driver, the distance between eyes and screen would be around 55" Almost every aspect of the race frame pro is adjustable. The pedals can be adjusted for distance from driver and pedal rake angle (and both normal ground based pedals and "top down" pedals (ala speed7 pedals) can be used. The seat can be adjusted forward and backward, for height, and for seat angle (or tilt). The steering column base can be adjusted for distance from the driver, and height, and for steering wheel rake angle (or tilt) and the base will support almost any popular type of wheel. Unfortunately Gerry, I fail to see how a set-up that has infinate adjustment (for the monitor between 16" and 55" & for all the other settings as described above) can be described as "...the design isn't flexible enough in regard to the placement of the monitor". But you are entitled to you opinion... *Peter* - http://www.cix.co.uk/~pjgtech/home.html

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Gerry Aitken) wrote: > Yeah, but they should have designed it better in the first place by > pulling the monitor forward and up, to just behind the wheel. > > Gerry In my opinion, the position of the monitor on the BRD is just abour perfect. Imagine if you are in a real race car, whilst you are driving where should you be looking? At the horizon, at the road ahead, (vanishing point to be exact) searching for the next braking point or turn in point, etc. Which is exactly where the monitor is. You are suggesting placing the monitor higher up, so the driver will be looking up higher, towards the sky! Not many turn in points up there? BRD know exactly what are doing, (they not only manufacture sim chassis, wheels, etc, but also full sized mock ups of racing cars, and speedboats, etc for exhibitions and demonstrations, etc) and their kit reflects their expertise. *Peter* - http://www.cix.co.uk/~pjgtech/home.html

[email hidden] wrote:

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> > In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Gerry > Aitken) wrote: > > > Yeah, but they should have designed it better in the first place by > > pulling the monitor forward and up, to just behind the wheel. > > > > Gerry > > In my opinion, the position of the monitor on the BRD is just abour > perfect. Imagine if you are in a real race car, whilst you are driving > where should you be looking? > > At the horizon, at the road ahead, (vanishing point to be exact) searching > for the next braking point or turn in point, etc. Which is exactly where > the monitor is. > > You are suggesting placing the monitor higher up, so the driver will be > looking up higher, towards the sky! Not many turn in points up there? > > BRD know exactly what are doing, (they not only manufacture sim chassis, > wheels, etc, but also full sized mock ups of racing cars, and speedboats, > etc for exhibitions and demonstrations, etc) and their kit reflects their > expertise. > > *Peter* - http://www.cix.co.uk/~pjgtech/home.html

Peter, with respect, if they had made the monitor stand just a few inches higher, say 5", then the user would be able to slide the all the way to the wheel. Thus filling their FOV with the image on the monitor, making everything bigger. Look at this young chap: http://www.cix.co.uk/~pjgtech/28gamhw3.htm#BRD if the monitor was pulled forward, to just behind the wheel, he would have to adjust his gaze up by about 5 degrees, hardly 'towards the sky' is it!? It's a weakness in design that this cannot be done. BDR are not perfect, and nor is every product they make! Gerry

[email hidden] wrote: <SNIP> > Unfortunately Gerry, I fail to see how a set-up that has infinate > adjustment (for the monitor between 16" and 55" & for all the other > settings as described above) can be described as "...the design isn't > flexible enough in regard to the placement of the monitor". Peter :) Well, they must have changed the design, because I looked long and hard at getting one last year, deciding against for the reason above. Any chance you could put a couple of pictures on your website showing the adjustment range? If the race frame pro now has the flexibility i'm looking for, i.e. monitor 24" away, then I'll be getting one! Cheers Gerry

> Look at this young chap: http://www.cix.co.uk/~pjgtech/28gamhw3.htm#BRD > if the monitor was pulled forward, to just behind the wheel, he would > have to adjust his gaze up by about 5 degrees, hardly 'towards the sky' > is it!? Thats the old model. The seat is now higher cos it is on proper seat runners, and the base under the monitor stand has an extra support loop which stops the weight of the monitor pulling down on the stand (you can see it drooping slightly in that photo. Also, even in this picture of the old race frame they do have the monitor as close to the driver as it can be. > It's a weakness in design that this cannot be done. BDR are not perfect, > and nor is every product they make! As I've stated already it *can* be done, you can have your face within 16" of the monitor screen, though I doubt if anyone would be comfortable with that position. Generally with outstretched arms, legs, etc you would be more likely to have the monitor from 24" and above, but it can be adjusted up to about 55" away if that is preferred. As I've also said I have it about 342 and its perfectly fine for me. We seem to be disagreeing about whether it can , or cannot, be adjusted to suit most peoples needs. You are basing your opinion on (I assume) a very limited time with the old model race frame. I am basing mine on having bought and installed the newer version in my study, and I have also had the benefit of having it for several days now, and I have accurately measured it to determine the range of adjustment. Go back and have another look, the newer version is better than the older version.

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> Well, they must have changed the design, because I looked long and hard > at getting one last year, deciding against for the reason above. Any > chance you could put a couple of pictures on your website showing the > adjustment range? If the race frame pro now has the flexibility i'm > looking for, i.e. monitor 24" away, then I'll be getting one! > > Cheers > > Gerry

The digital camera I used to take these photos is not mine, I use it for work purposes. However, I'll try and borrow the camera again over the next few days and take some more photos and post them on the website. I'll try and get something in the photos for measurement and scale to help illustrate the range of adjustment. Keep checking back to my site over the next week or so...

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (P Gagg) wrote: > Also, even in this picture of > the old race frame they do have the monitor as close to the driver as > it can be. Sorry, should have siad they *DO NOT* have the monitor as close as it can be. I also neglected to mention in my other posts that the steering column base can be lowered so that it is the same height or lower than the monitor base, which also adds even more adjustment potential. 8-) *Peter* - http://www.cix.co.uk/~pjgtech/home.html

P Gagg wrote:

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> > > Well, they must have changed the design, because I looked long and hard > > at getting one last year, deciding against for the reason above. Any > > chance you could put a couple of pictures on your website showing the > > adjustment range? If the race frame pro now has the flexibility i'm > > looking for, i.e. monitor 24" away, then I'll be getting one! > > > > Cheers > > > > Gerry > > The digital camera I used to take these photos is not mine, I use it for > work purposes. However, I'll try and borrow the camera again over the > next few days and take some more photos and post them on the website. > > I'll try and get something in the photos for measurement and scale to > help illustrate the range of adjustment. > > Keep checking back to my site over the next week or so...

Cheers Peter! Gerry