GPL ..Rouen & Kyalami

Hey GPLers.....I have been getting back into this lately, since GTR2002 wont run that great on my meager P3/700....anyway, what is the secret to these (2) tracks?!! I CANNOT bust 2:00 at Rouen, and Kyalami is a serious weak spot on my rank. I dont use 3rd gear on any corners at Kyalami, is this right? At Rouen I honestly cant figure where that :47 I need is!! I use 85/45 rearends, do I have to learn to drive those sick 30/60's etc? I'm gettin bummed....(and Eldred, I dont want to hear anymore BS about how your slow!! I cant touch your times hardly anywhere!! {:-) Thanks for any tips Greg

What chassis are you using? At Kyalami you will probably want to use 3rd on Jukskei Sweep, and possibly even on Sunset Bend, depending on chassis. I'm still about 0.1 off of the benchmark there so I don't know how much I can really help, but when I look at my replays it is almost always the stretch from the exit of Barbecue Bend to the entrance to Clubhouse Bend that makes the big difference in lap times. You really need to maintain as much speed as possible in the Sweep and with Sunset Bend you need to trail brake right in to the apex and then come out very aggressively as soon as you get over the hump in the middle. Hope that helps. Let me know if you figure anything else out, because I would really like to get under 1:20 there. "Greg31" <greg31@.NOSPAM.com> wrote in message news:E9nY9.16916$[email hidden]... > Hey GPLers.....I have been getting back into this lately, since GTR2002wont

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> run that great on my meager P3/700....anyway, what is the secret to these > (2) tracks?!! I CANNOT bust 2:00 at Rouen, and Kyalami is a serious weak > spot on my rank. > I dont use 3rd gear on any corners at Kyalami, is this right? At Rouen I > honestly cant figure where that :47 I need is!! I use 85/45 rearends, do I > have to learn to drive those sick 30/60's etc? > I'm gettin bummed....(and Eldred, I dont want to hear anymore BS about how > your slow!! I cant touch your times hardly anywhere!! {:-) > Thanks for any tips > > Greg > > >

"Greg31" wrote... > Hey GPLers..... > At Rouen I honestly cant figure where that :47 I need > is!! I use 85/45 rearends, do I have to learn to drive > those sick 30/60's etc? I'm gettin bummed.... <snip> I'm not good at Kyalami either, so we'll skip that part. There's a lot of places where you can lose time at Rouen. Can you be a little more specific or post a replay somewhere? The main things about Rouen are you have to apex those fast sweepers (1st turn, Six Freres, the run up to Sanson, Beauval, Paradis) early and carry speed. Others are putting power down out of the Nouveau Monde hairpin and Sanson. Scierie is also faster than it appears at first. I'm using a fairly soft setup with an 60/85/2 differential at the moment. I'm about to seek advise on breaking 1m58s, though, so stand by for a change of mind. <g> Jan. =---

My take: (the following is of course dependant on setup, but I use Gregor Huttus original ones) Rouen: The first three/four corners are very important, I go to 4th for turn 1, then 4th or 3rd for the others. You should be (nearly) on the dirt at the exit of each of these corners. Turn 4 (the approach to the hairpin) is pretty tough and only practise will master it. Also another thing to remember is the braking point after the long straight, leave it as late as possible. I can do about 1:56.3 with 85:45 so don't worry about 60:30 diffs. PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE! Kyalami: The first corner, as late as is possible, brake quite late after the skid marks begin on the road. The second corner is deceptive, but turn early so that you touch the apex, get this wrong and the rest of the straight up to sunset is ruined. Don't overpush sunset, does more harm than good, just cruise round it and get the power on early. Get a good exit out of the back straight otherwise the straight is ruined. Oh and also... PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE! Don't forget that you can always download hotlaps. eg www.hotlaps.de, watching faster people can be very insightful! :) Regards

Thanks all, as far as chassis, I have been in favor of the Ferrari for these 2 tracks, realizing the Lotus is more "point and shoot"....I will take all you have said and go from there....1:20 at Kyalami?....I dont see THAT in my future, at least before dentures!! But JEEZ, I want to get under 2:00 at Rouen!!! Its driving me far more mad than getting under 8:30 at the Ring...yet another story in itself! Thanks again guys, Greg31 "Alex Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:b0umb2$gdv$[email hidden]...

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> My take: (the following is of course dependant on setup, but I use Gregor > Huttus original ones) > > Rouen: > > The first three/four corners are very important, I go to 4th for turn 1, > then 4th or 3rd for the others. You should be (nearly) on the dirt at the > exit of each of these corners. Turn 4 (the approach to the hairpin) is > pretty tough and only practise will master it. Also another thing to > remember is the braking point after the long straight, leave it as late as > possible. I can do about 1:56.3 with 85:45 so don't worry about 60:30

diffs.

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> PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE! > > Kyalami: > > The first corner, as late as is possible, brake quite late after the skid > marks begin on the road. The second corner is deceptive, but turn early so > that you touch the apex, get this wrong and the rest of the straight up to > sunset is ruined. Don't overpush sunset, does more harm than good, just > cruise round it and get the power on early. Get a good exit out of the

back > straight otherwise the straight is ruined. Oh and also... PRACTICEPRACTICE

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> PRACTICE! > > Don't forget that you can always download hotlaps. eg www.hotlaps.de, > watching faster people can be very insightful! > > :) > > Regards > > > > >

In article <VPFY9.22590$[email hidden]>, "Greg31" <greg31@.NOSPAM.com> writes:

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>Thanks all, as far as chassis, I have been in favor of the Ferrari for these >2 tracks, realizing the Lotus is more "point and shoot"....I will take all >you have said and go from there....1:20 at Kyalami?....I dont see THAT in my >future, at least before dentures!! But JEEZ, I want to get under 2:00 at >Rouen!!! Its driving me far more mad than getting under 8:30 at the >Ring...yet another story in itself! >Thanks again guys,

When you figure out under 2:00 at Rouen, and 1:50 at Mexico, let me know, huh? Those two are a thorn in my side... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:-0.381 N2002 Rank:+17.59 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > When you figure out under 2:00 at Rouen, and 1:50 at Mexico, let me know,huh? > Those two are a thorn in my side... Drive really fast ;-) Malc.

On Sat, 25 Jan 2003 03:05:08 GMT, Greg31 wrote: > Hey GPLers.....I have been getting back into this lately, since GTR2002 wont > run that great on my meager P3/700....anyway, what is the secret to these > (2) tracks?!! I CANNOT bust 2:00 at Rouen, and Kyalami is a serious weak > spot on my rank. Hi Greg, I think breaking 2:00 at Rouen was one of my longest standing challenges in GPL. The key to Rouen for me turned out to be two things: 1) be smooth. 2) Brake later for the penultimate right-hander after the long backstraight and taking it in third gear. This alone will probably gain you half a second. Also, I've ruined a great number of laps by overcooking it into the first right hander after S/F. Frustrating as hell ;-) uwe -- mail replies to Uwe at schuerkamp dot de ( yahoo address is spambox) Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/ Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E) GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

On Sun, 26 Jan 2003 23:40:00 -0000, Malc wrote:

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> "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > >> When you figure out under 2:00 at Rouen, and 1:50 at Mexico, let me know, > huh? >> Those two are a thorn in my side... > > Drive really fast ;-)

hehe! As some great racer stated, the key to racing is not going fast, but slow enough in order to stay on the track ;-) uwe -- mail replies to Uwe at schuerkamp dot de ( yahoo address is spambox) Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/ Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E) GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

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>"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... > >> When you figure out under 2:00 at Rouen, and 1:50 at Mexico, let me know, >huh? >> Those two are a thorn in my side... > >Drive really fast ;-) > >Malc. >

Smart ass...<g> I can drive really fast, no problem. But, I can't stay on the track while doing it. Staying on the track improves your chances of getting a good lap time... :-) Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:-0.381 N2002 Rank:+17.59 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > >"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >news:[email hidden]... > > > >> When you figure out under 2:00 at Rouen, and 1:50 at Mexico, let meknow,

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> >huh? > >> Those two are a thorn in my side... > > > >Drive really fast ;-) > > > >Malc. > > > > Smart ass...<g> > I can drive really fast, no problem. But, I can't stay on the track while > doing it. Staying on the track improves your chances of getting a good

lap > time... > :-) Hey if you're fully in control you're not going fast enough ;-) Rouen has alot of fast, sweeping corners where your exit speed is crucial to getting a good time. Firstly, use ALL of the track, and accelerate through each corner, taking as late an apex as you can manage, because you'll enter the corner much slower than you exit it, so your car will tend to want to drift wide at the exit. A late apex will give you enough tarmac for it to do that. The famous hairpin won't lose you too much time if you take it slowly, but it's very easy to lose the back as you have to brake while turning. Think about your traction circle and use a bit of braking and a bit of cornering grip to slow down & get round the corner. Brake too hard & you'll go sideways, take the corner too fast & you'll not have enough grip left to slow down. One other tip I found really useful, take the tight corner at the end of the back straight in second, and you can floor it much sooner without doing donuts ;-) Malc.

Well somethings working...got it down to 2:00.30 at Rouen...GOOD GOD...can I buy .30 from someone??? Thanks for the tips Greg "Malc" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:%FeZ9.3987$9u5.260845@wards...

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> "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > >"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > >news:[email hidden]... > > > > > >> When you figure out under 2:00 at Rouen, and 1:50 at Mexico, let me > know, > > >huh? > > >> Those two are a thorn in my side... > > > > > >Drive really fast ;-) > > > > > >Malc. > > > > > > > Smart ass...<g> > > I can drive really fast, no problem. But, I can't stay on the track

while

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> > doing it. Staying on the track improves your chances of getting a good > lap > > time... > > :-) > > Hey if you're fully in control you're not going fast enough ;-) > > Rouen has alot of fast, sweeping corners where your exit speed is crucial

to > getting a good time. Firstly, use ALL of the track, and accelerate through > each corner, taking as late an apex as you can manage, because you'llenter > the corner much slower than you exit it, so your car will tend to want to > drift wide at the exit. A late apex will give you enough tarmac for it todo > that. > > The famous hairpin won't lose you too much time if you take it slowly, but > it's very easy to lose the back as you have to brake while turning. > Think about your traction circle and use a bit of braking and a bit of > cornering grip to slow down & get round the corner. Brake too hard &you'll > go sideways, take the corner too fast & you'll not have enough grip leftto > slow down. > > One other tip I found really useful, take the tight corner at the end ofthe > back straight in second, and you can floor it much sooner without doing > donuts ;-) > > Malc. > >

"Greg31" wrote... > Well somethings working...got it down to 2:00.30 at Rouen... > GOOD GOD...can I buy .30 from someone??? > Thanks for the tips Here's a big tip: quit worrying about the 2minute barrier. Just drive, you'll break it soon enough. Jan. =---

"Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:cNtZ9.13164$[email hidden]...

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> "Greg31" wrote... > > Well somethings working...got it down to 2:00.30 at Rouen... > > GOOD GOD...can I buy .30 from someone??? > > Thanks for the tips > > Here's a big tip: quit worrying about the 2minute barrier. Just drive, > you'll break it soon enough.

That's about as good advice as you can get ;-) I've set most of my really quick times about three laps from the end of a race, with a car in the distance to aim for. You forget about driving the car, it becomes automatic. You concentrate on being smooooth and using all the track. Those are the times when you're quickest, but that's when you get the most spectacular offs, because you're really going for it and taking risks. Malc.

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>"Greg31" wrote... >> Well somethings working...got it down to 2:00.30 at Rouen... >> GOOD GOD...can I buy .30 from someone??? >> Thanks for the tips > >Here's a big tip: quit worrying about the 2minute barrier. Just drive, >you'll break it soon enough.

That doesn't help - trust me... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:-0.381 N2002 Rank:+17.59 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On 28 Jan 2003 14:00:08 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: >That doesn't help - trust me... Have you tried Replay Analyzer? I found at Rouen that I was losing most of my time vs the benchmark on the downhill run which sort of surprised me (considering that was the opposite of my experience at Spa and elsewhere) and gave me an idea of what I needed to work on. I'm still not as fast as I should be there, and have trouble running sub-2 with any consistency, but just having an idea where you're gaining/losing ground on the benchmark would be a good start. I always find I either overdrive or underdrive the downhill bit at the beginning to the hairpin but who knows, maybe you're losing time on the uphill part. Would be worth looking at. Jason

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>>That doesn't help - trust me... > >Have you tried Replay Analyzer? > >I found at Rouen that I was losing most of my time vs the benchmark on >the downhill run which sort of surprised me (considering that was the >opposite of my experience at Spa and elsewhere) and gave me an idea of >what I needed to work on. I'm still not as fast as I should be there, >and have trouble running sub-2 with any consistency, but just having >an idea where you're gaining/losing ground on the benchmark would be a >good start. I always find I either overdrive or underdrive the >downhill bit at the beginning to the hairpin but who knows, maybe >you're losing time on the uphill part. Would be worth looking at.

Yes, I have. Well, not against the benchmark, but against hotlaps. At Rouen, I'm slower *everywhere*. I've found that almost without exception, I turn-in too early at every turn. If I *try* to delay the turn-in, I'm off the outside of the track. It's a perception issue there, but I don't know how to fix it. As far as the downhill run to the hairpin, I *must* get all my braking done before the preceding left-hand turn. If I'm on the brakes at all in the turn, I'll crash. If I wait until after the left-hander, I can't stop in time. So I brake before the turn, and coast up to the hairpin. That's the only way I can consistently(at least 80% of the time) get through there without crashing. Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:-0.381 N2002 Rank:+17.59 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (EldredP) writes: >As far as the downhill run to the hairpin, I *must* get all my braking done >before the preceding left-hand turn. If I'm on the brakes at all in the >turn, I'll crash. If I wait until after the left-hander, I can't stop intime. So >I brake before the turn, and coast up to the hairpin. That's the only way I >can consistently(at least 80% of the time) get through there without crashing. > Split it up, man. I mash the brake hard before the turn, let off about 90% for the turn, then brake again before the hairpin. Not that I should be giving anyone advice about how to be fast. Don McCorkle

On 28 Jan 2003 19:36:02 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: >Yes, I have. Well, not against the benchmark, but against hotlaps. Problem 1. Use whatever your goal is as the reference lap. If you're trying to break 2, then use the replay that came with GPL. Looking at someone significantly faster than you is just basically going to show that you're slower everywhere. > At Rouen, >I'm slower *everywhere*. See above. =) >As far as the downhill run to the hairpin, I *must* get all my braking done >before the preceding left-hand turn. I always brake before the left, coast a bit, then brake for the hairpin, so there's probably somewhere else you could gain time. Seriously, load the benchmark replay into RA and have a go. Also, when I meant the downhill part, I actually meant further up the hill. My biggest problem at Rouen isn't the hairpin or the uphill sections, it's that first right/left/right complex which I always seem to either slow down way too much for or take too fast/at the wrong angle and totally blow the line/turn and end up in the grass. Of course, you could be fine there. I can't emphasize enough how much better it is to look at the benchmark replays in RA than the alien laps, at least when you're at the skill level we're at (hell, I'm what, 2 seconds faster than you overall?). Jason

"EldredP" wrote... > <snip> > That doesn't help - trust me... There you go all negative again. I set a new Honda PB for Rouen in the race last Sunday (2m01.26s). I wasn't thinking about laptime, I wasn't even thinking about going fast. I was just keeping up the pressure on Asgeir so he couldn't slacken off to save his car. As it turned out, he ran out of fuel and I moved up another spot. <g> Have you ever been "in the groove" Eldred? -The groove is a wonderfull thing. Effortless speed. Or are you afraid to go there? Jan. =---

On Wed, 29 Jan 2003 11:54:51 GMT, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Have you ever been "in the groove" Eldred? -The groove is a wonderfull >thing. Effortless speed. Or are you afraid to go there? I think Eldred is a scaredy pants, myself. Also, I wasn't supposed to say anything, but he still wets the bed. Jason

"Jason Moyer" wrote... > I think Eldred is a scaredy pants, myself. Also, > I wasn't supposed to say anything, but he still > wets the bed. Actually, that was a fairly serious question. I suddenly realised I've never heard Eldred talking about feeling completely "on it". About just "being there", if you know what I mean. So how about it EP... ever felt like the lord of creation in the cockpit? Jan. =---

> >Actually, that was a fairly serious question. I suddenly realised I've never >heard Eldred talking about feeling completely "on it". About just "being >there", if you know what I mean. > >So how about it EP... ever felt like the lord of creation in the cockpit? Few and far between. Two, maybe three times. I really don't know why it's so rare in this game for me. Maybe *I* just don't 'get it' like Tim, but I keep fighting it... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:-0.381 N2002 Rank:+17.59 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

>>Have you ever been "in the groove" Eldred? -The groove is a wonderfull >>thing. Effortless speed. Or are you afraid to go there? > >I think Eldred is a scaredy pants, myself. Also, I wasn't supposed to >say anything, but he still wets the bed. Scared of what - crashing a virtual car in a game? Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:-0.381 N2002 Rank:+17.59 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

> >I think Eldred is a scaredy pants, myself. Also, I wasn't supposed to > >say anything, but he still wets the bed. > > Scared of what - crashing a virtual car in a game? > > Eldred Denying being scared but still skirting the bedwetting issue eh Eldred? <G>

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Jason Moyer) writes: >Also, when I meant the downhill part, I actually meant further up the >hill. My biggest problem at Rouen isn't the hairpin or the uphill >sections, it's that first right/left/right complex which I always seem >to either slow down way too much for or take too fast/at the wrong >angle and totally blow the line/turn and end up in the grass. That's what happens to me when I try to go faster. I could probably run 2:05's all day without breaking a sweat, though. >Of course, you could be fine there. I can't emphasize enough how much >better it is to look at the benchmark replays in RA than the alien >laps, at least when you're at the skill level we're at (hell, I'm >what, 2 seconds faster than you overall?). I dunno - I've never compared our times. My reasoning for looking at the hotlaps is this. Comparing to a hotlap, I can see how much faster someone can go in a given turn. I might not be able to DO it, but it might get me closer. Comparing to a lap that's maybe a second faster, I can't see the difference. So, I don't know what to do differently. Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:-0.381 N2002 Rank:+17.59 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

There's a similar discussion going on in a league e-mail group. This is what I just posted to them: ------------------------------------------- I was thinking about this on my way home from work today. It suddenly hit me the comparison between this and any other activity - bowling, for example. Simply rolling the ball hundreds of times won't make you any better. Consistency is good, but it doesn't increase your SKILL. You just get good at rolling the ball the same way every time. That same way might not be *correct*, though. The same thing happens to me in GPL. Once I know where the track goes, and I'm not 'guessing' which way to turn, I don't improve much from there. On a hypothetical track, my PB might be 1:45. My 'normal' lap time might be closer to 1:45.5. So if I ran 100 laps there, I never really get any faster. I just get more consistent at running 1:45.5's. I've used replay analyzer for my fastest laps at many different tracks. Using the 'sector times' function, I find that my 'perfect' lap might be at *most*, 0.3 seconds faster. Often, it's much less than that. This tells me that I'm pretty much doing almost the exact same thing almost every lap - consistent. I've noticed this on almost every track that I've put in enough laps to get comfortable. However, moving my brake point forward or taking a slightly different line usually results in a crash. If I don't crash outright, it takes me so long to regain control that I'm still much slower in the end. I've heard it stated this way - if you run tons of practice laps at the same speed you just get good at being slow. So - how do you guys(and gal) get to that 'next level'? If doing something differently causes a crash, how do you get faster? Maybe that's the question I should have been asking all along. Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:-0.381 N2002 Rank:+17.59 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Woodie 83) writes:

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>>I brake before the turn, and coast up to the hairpin. That's the only way I >>can consistently(at least 80% of the time) get through there without >crashing. >> > >Split it up, man. I mash the brake hard before the turn, let off about 90% >for >the turn, then brake again before the hairpin. Not that I should be giving >anyone advice about how to be fast.

I said *consistently*. I can do it your way, but I only make it about 1 out of every 10 tries. :-) Part of the problem is I can't judge my speed very well between the lefthander and the hairpin. Either I brake too much, and coast to it(or worse, have to hit the gas and brake again), or I don't slow down enough, and plow into the tires on the outside of the turn. Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:-0.381 N2002 Rank:+17.59 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <b8XZ9.5377$[email hidden]>, "Tony Rickard" <[email hidden]> writes: >> Scared of what - crashing a virtual car in a game? >> >> Eldred > >Denying being scared but still skirting the bedwetting issue eh Eldred? > Very funny... :-) Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:-0.381 N2002 Rank:+17.59 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Perhaps if you were to pick markers for both the beginning and end of each braking zone you would be more consistent. I say perhaps because frankly I am not that fast at Rouen. But with a little bit of practice I can usually do that section pretty well. I have trees and such picked out to mark off the braking zones. "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > I said *consistently*. I can do it your way, but I only make it about 1out of > every 10 tries. :-) Part of the problem is I can't judge my speed verywell > between the lefthander and the hairpin. Either I brake too much, andcoast to > it(or worse, have to hit the gas and brake again), or I don't slow downenough,

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> and plow into the tires on the outside of the turn. > > Eldred > -- > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPLRank:-0.381 > N2002 Rank:+17.59 > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats

you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

A former Karate instructor of mine used to have a saying, "practice doesn't make perfect, only perfect practice makes perfect". Correct repetition makes you better. But you don't get correct repetitions by not practicing. You have to practice, but you have to have the discipline to practice correctly. If we were talking about golf or bowling or even real racing you would be getting feedback from teachers or team mates or whatever on how you are doing, where you messed up, and how to improve. In a computer game, even multiplayer computer games, you don't get a lot of feedback and there are no teachers. You have to be your own teacher. That means lots of replay analysis followed by having the discipline to apply what you learned from the replay analysis until you get it, and then repeating it until you get it consistently. Then when you can do "perfect practice" you repeat it until it becomes ingrained in your subconscious, and perfect performance no longer requires conscious thought. That's the difference between a master and a novice in any sport. I am of course still a novice at this stuff. ;o) "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > There's a similar discussion going on in a league e-mail group. This iswhat I > just posted to them: > ------------------------------------------- > I was thinking about this on my way home from work today. It suddenly hitme > the comparison between this and any other activity - bowling, for example. > Simply rolling the ball hundreds of times won't make you any better. > Consistency is good, but it doesn't increase your SKILL. You just getgood at > rolling the ball the same way every time. That same way might not be > *correct*, though. > The same thing happens to me in GPL. Once I know where the track goes,and I'm > not 'guessing' which way to turn, I don't improve much from there. On a > hypothetical track, my PB might be 1:45. My 'normal' lap time might becloser > to 1:45.5. So if I ran 100 laps there, I never really get any faster. Ijust > get more consistent at running 1:45.5's. I've used replay analyzer for my > fastest laps at many different tracks. Using the 'sector times' function,I > find that my 'perfect' lap might be at *most*, 0.3 seconds faster. Often,it's > much less than that. This tells me that I'm pretty much doing almost theexact > same thing almost every lap - consistent. I've noticed this on almostevery > track that I've put in enough laps to get comfortable. However, moving my > brake point forward or taking a slightly different line usually results ina > crash. If I don't crash outright, it takes me so long to regain controlthat > I'm still much slower in the end. > I've heard it stated this way - if you run tons of practice laps at thesame > speed you just get good at being slow. > So - how do you guys(and gal) get to that 'next level'? If doingsomething > differently causes a crash, how do you get faster? Maybe that's thequestion I

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> should have been asking all along. > > Eldred > -- > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPLRank:-0.381 > N2002 Rank:+17.59 > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats

you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On 29 Jan 2003 23:08:18 GMT, EldredP wrote: > So - how do you guys(and gal) get to that 'next level'? If doing something > differently causes a crash, how do you get faster? Maybe that's the question I > should have been asking all along. > Well Eldred, what really changed my "speed" where two things, I guess: 1) exchanging my old T2 for a TSW wheel (gotta love that ball bearings ;-) 2) learning to balance the car on the throttle through the corners. You were quite shocked in disbelief a while ago when I mentioned that going from neutral to full throttle on corner exit usually takes 2 to three seconds, when usually earlier I just used to stomp on the throttle when I felt it was about time ;-) Now, I can apply throttle earlier (even if it's only a bit), which buys me higher exit speed and we all know what that spells: Faster lap times. I'm by no means an alien (-27 handicap), but the big step from say -1 to nearly -30 were achieved by the two (maybe even just 2) for you) above. Cheers, uwe -- mail replies to Uwe at schuerkamp dot de ( yahoo address is spambox) Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/ Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E) GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

In article <[email hidden]>, Uwe hoover Schuerkamp <[email hidden]> writes:

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>2) learning to balance the car on the throttle through the >corners. You were quite shocked in disbelief a while ago when I >mentioned that going from neutral to full throttle on corner >exit usually takes 2 to three seconds, when usually earlier I >just used to stomp on the throttle when I felt it was about >time ;-) Now, I can apply throttle earlier (even if it's only a >bit), which buys me higher exit speed and we all know what that >spells: Faster lap times. I'm by no means an alien (-27 >handicap), but the big step from say -1 to nearly -30 were >achieved by the two (maybe even just 2) for you) above. >

Hmm...I thought my post got lost in the ether - I never saw it... From my point of view, I can't get on the gas any sooner when I'm *already* on the limit of traction. It may be strictly an issue of perception(either visual(what I view on the screen) or mental(confidence)), but I don't know how to change that. Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:-0.381 N2002 Rank:+17.59 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

For what its worth, it sounds to me like a shift in focus is in order. Could it be that you are concentrating too much on the track and not enough on the car? Most of my friends do this; think plenty about how to take this corner or that corner, but never really focus on *how* they come off the brakes at the point of turn-in, or how they blend the throttle in. It has been my experience that the types of corners you find at Rouen really emphasise any flaws in driving style. Having said that, I did suddenly go a lot faster as soon as I upgraded from an Athlon 800/GF2 GTS to an Athlon 1900/GF4. Uwe hoover Schuerkamp <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

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> On Sat, 25 Jan 2003 03:05:08 GMT, Greg31 wrote: > > Hey GPLers.....I have been getting back into this lately, since GTR2002 wont > > run that great on my meager P3/700....anyway, what is the secret to these > > (2) tracks?!! I CANNOT bust 2:00 at Rouen, and Kyalami is a serious weak > > spot on my rank. > > Hi Greg, > > I think breaking 2:00 at Rouen was one of my longest standing > challenges in GPL. The key to Rouen for me turned out to be two > things: > > 1) be smooth. > > 2) Brake later for the penultimate right-hander after the long > backstraight and taking it in third gear. This alone will > probably gain you half a second. > > Also, I've ruined a great number of laps by overcooking it into > the first right hander after S/F. Frustrating as hell ;-) > > uwe

"EldredP" wrote... > <snip> > Hmm...I thought my post got lost in the ether - I never saw it... > From my point of view, I can't get on the gas any sooner when > I'm *already* on the limit of traction. It may be strictly an issue > of perception(either visual(what I view on the screen) or mental > (confidence)), but I don't know how to change that. You do corner very well, from the perspective of using the maximum of your car. Like I said before, in slow to medium speed corners you use almost all that's there. If you were to start adding power sooner without making other changes (setup/driving style), you're going to be catching al lot of slides. IMO, the part of tens in your case is to combine that cornering ability with maximum use of the road. The difference between a 1m28s lap at Zandvoort and 1m26s one is about a foot of track (normal to the direction of travel, that is). Thing is, if you somehow force yourself to change your lines and you keep cornering at the limit as you do, you're going to scare yourself even if you only get it a little bit wrong. So, IMO, you will have to take a step back in terms of speed in order to be able to advance. To corroborate with my reply to Hal, you can't go as fast "thinking about it" as you do when you do things automatically. So to practise perfection you'll have to slow it down. Start from the back of the field against the AI, don't worry about passing them (well, sometimes you will have to), just concentrate on driving good lines and making it an automatism. Couple of GP's like that and you might surprise yourself with what you can do when you really let rip. Jan. =---

"Haqsau" wrote... > <snip> you can do "perfect practice" and repeat > it until it becomes ingrained in your subconscious, > and perfect performance no longer requires > conscious thought. That's the difference between > a master and a novice in any sport. Well said Hal, I got a bit bogged down after getting negative on GPL and it was precisely because I was thinking about the driving too much. It's easy to get into a habit to conciously controlling your driving when trying too hard to drive quickly and consistently. It also puts a real brake on your laptimes. Malcomlm Edeson pointed this out to me just over a year ago. In the beginning it was very hard to let go; to trust myself to do it right eventhough I wasn't "thinking about it", but now I'm edging towards -15 on GPLRank and winning the odd race here and there. Letting go truly releases one's driving. Jan. =--- PS.: in case anyone's wondering: this really is a very late reply, it didn't just pop out of some internet crack. :-)

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> >To corroborate with my reply to Hal, you can't go as fast "thinking about >it" as you do when you do things automatically. So to practise perfection >you'll have to slow it down. Start from the back of the field against the >AI, don't worry about passing them (well, sometimes you will have to), just >concentrate on driving good lines and making it an automatism. Couple of >GP's like that and you might surprise yourself with what you can do when you >really let rip.

If I run races against the AI, I always start from the back anyway. It's quicker than running qual...<g> Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:-0.381 MonsterRank: +339.873 N2002 Rank:+17.59 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.