NR2003: Taladega Setups. WTH!

I've been working for 4 hours on a dega setup. I haven't been able to create a decent SS setup since N4 came out. I got worse with NR2002, and now I REALLY suck or I'm truly mis-understanding something here :) I took the Jasper setup as a baseline. I've got the Track Bar cranked DOWN all the way to 8.50 on both sides. I've got the front/rear bias shoved all the way forward. I've got the front at 800/900 for the weight. The tape is at 70. And the damned thing is STILL loose through the center of the corner. To make matters worse, not only is it loose in the center, but it plows like a bulldozer exiting the turns. So I have no rear end bite in the center, and no front end bite on exit. Damn I'm confused! I have set the tires at 60 all around. That IS still the golden rule for SS tracks, right? Did the new tire model do something to change that? I noticed that the Jasper setup had the left sides down into the 30's. I've never, ever seent that in a SS setup before, anywhere. Something else weird. Unless something has changed, I'm still setting up the tire temps using the old +10 deg on the left edges rule-of-thumb. I can get that on the right side, but it's taking major amounts of camber to get it. Like 6.5 deg, almost max! On the left, I can't even come close. I've got it maxed at positive 7 degree's, and I can't get more than about +2 or 3 on the left tire left edge. So I've got a loosy pushy car, and even running things to the extreem I can't seem to do anything about it. What I wouldn't give for an AI crew chief. I HATE doing setups :) Larry

First of all the leaked demo's version of talladega is a good bit different then the release version. Secondly if you have all your tires set to 60 PSI your only getting a small fraction of the tires grip ability. If you run with pressures closer to which you see in the fast and Jasper setups you should notice the car has much more grip. My best advice is to not waste much time trying to make that perfect dega setup based off the demo. The game should be in the stores shortly. Jay Taylor "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:fh3%9.82924$[email hidden]...

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> I've been working for 4 hours on a dega setup. I haven't been able to > create a decent SS setup since N4 came out. I got worse with NR2002, and > now I REALLY suck or I'm truly mis-understanding something here :) > > I took the Jasper setup as a baseline. > > I've got the Track Bar cranked DOWN all the way to 8.50 on both sides.

I've

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> got the front/rear bias shoved all the way forward. > > I've got the front at 800/900 for the weight. > > The tape is at 70. > > And the damned thing is STILL loose through the center of the corner. > > To make matters worse, not only is it loose in the center, but it plows

like

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> a bulldozer exiting the turns. > > So I have no rear end bite in the center, and no front end bite on exit. > > Damn I'm confused! > > I have set the tires at 60 all around. That IS still the golden rule for

SS > tracks, right? Did the new tire model do something to change that? > > I noticed that the Jasper setup had the left sides down into the 30's.I've > never, ever seent that in a SS setup before, anywhere. > > Something else weird. Unless something has changed, I'm still setting up > the tire temps using the old +10 deg on the left edges rule-of-thumb. Ican

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> get that on the right side, but it's taking major amounts of camber to get > it. Like 6.5 deg, almost max! > > On the left, I can't even come close. I've got it maxed at positive 7 > degree's, and I can't get more than about +2 or 3 on the left tire left > edge. > > So I've got a loosy pushy car, and even running things to the extreem I > can't seem to do anything about it. > > What I wouldn't give for an AI crew chief. I HATE doing setups :) > > Larry > > >

"Larry" wrote... > And the damned thing is STILL loose through the center > of the corner. > > To make matters worse, not only is it loose in the > center, but it plows like a bulldozer exiting the > turns. Larry, don't waste your time trying to get this right. The release version will be changed from the beta demo version to address this problem. Jan. =---

On Sun, 02 Feb 2003 06:55:07 GMT, "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote: >And the damned thing is STILL loose through the center of the corner. > >To make matters worse, not only is it loose in the center, but it plows like >a bulldozer exiting the turns. > >So I have no rear end bite in the center, and no front end bite on exit. Er. I dunno, if you right click on stuff in the garage it should tell you how to cure exit understeer and mid-corner oversteer. I'm not going to give advice tho. Also, during races in the N2003 beta the car is going to push a lot more than in the final product according to the Jasper engineer. Apparently he feels the aero push affect is overdone at the superspeedways in the beta build, which I agree with too. It's nice that you have to wrestle with the car to keep it at the bottom when you don't have any air on your front spoiler, but with 100% AI strength you pretty much have to slide entering the turns to keep the car in the groove. Jason

Glad to hear they're toning the aero push down; I was thinking that was going to be in line for the "most hated sim feature" award of '03. :-) And while I know the final release will differ from the demo, has anyone noticed the need to run the RF practically straight up (or even w/positive camber) at Michigan to get the temps in the +/- 10 degree range? Seems rather odd... SB "Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Sun, 02 Feb 2003 06:55:07 GMT, "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >And the damned thing is STILL loose through the center of the corner. > > > >To make matters worse, not only is it loose in the center, but it plowslike

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> >a bulldozer exiting the turns. > > > >So I have no rear end bite in the center, and no front end bite on exit. > > Er. I dunno, if you right click on stuff in the garage it should tell > you how to cure exit understeer and mid-corner oversteer. I'm not > going to give advice tho. > > Also, during races in the N2003 beta the car is going to push a lot > more than in the final product according to the Jasper engineer. > Apparently he feels the aero push affect is overdone at the > superspeedways in the beta build, which I agree with too. It's nice > that you have to wrestle with the car to keep it at the bottom when > you don't have any air on your front spoiler, but with 100% AI > strength you pretty much have to slide entering the turns to keep the > car in the groove. > > Jason

On Sun, 2 Feb 2003 10:48:31 -0500, "Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Glad to hear they're toning the aero push down; I was thinking that was >going to be in line for the "most hated sim feature" award of '03. :-) I believe he said it was being toned down at SS tracks, but not anywhere else. I actually like the way it feels at Michigan, makes it much harder to tuck your nose under someone and get a good run out of a turn. Jason

Yeah, Talladega was the only place it really seemed bothersome, as it was hugely different running in clean air vs a draft. Even if correct, I can just imagine the online howls in all those SS races! ;-) SB "Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Sun, 2 Feb 2003 10:48:31 -0500, "Steve Blankenship" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Glad to hear they're toning the aero push down; I was thinking that was > >going to be in line for the "most hated sim feature" award of '03. :-) > > I believe he said it was being toned down at SS tracks, but not > anywhere else. I actually like the way it feels at Michigan, makes it > much harder to tuck your nose under someone and get a good run out of > a turn. > > Jason

60PSI is way too high on the left side and a little high on the right side as well. I'd suggest you stick closer to the Goodyear recommended pressures that are used in the fast and jasper setups for maximum grip. - Eric "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:fh3%9.82924$[email hidden]... > > I have set the tires at 60 all around. That IS still the golden rulefor SS > tracks, right? Did the new tire model do something to change that? > > I noticed that the Jasper setup had the left sides down into the 30's.I've > never, ever seent that in a SS setup before, anywhere.

On Sun, 2 Feb 2003 12:55:52 -0500, "Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Yeah, Talladega was the only place it really seemed bothersome, as it was >hugely different running in clean air vs a draft. Even if correct, I can >just imagine the online howls in all those SS races! ;-) I guess they can play with the arcade physics then, huh? =) I hope the aero/push is still a significant factor at the SS's, enough that you still have to really work to keep the car low all the way around. Jason

I have never seen a good, fast Dega setup use anything but 60 all around. Since N2 at least. Anything less and you loose major top-end speed. Maybe this has changed in 2003. That's what I'm trying to figure out. Larry "Jay Taylor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:OS3%9.196$[email hidden]... > First of all the leaked demo's version of talladega is a good bitdifferent > then the release version. > > Secondly if you have all your tires set to 60 PSI your only getting asmall

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> fraction of the tires grip ability. If you run with pressures closer to > which you see in the fast and Jasper setups you should notice the car has > much more grip. > > My best advice is to not waste much time trying to make that perfect dega > setup based off the demo. The game should be in the stores shortly. > > Jay Taylor > > > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:fh3%9.82924$[email hidden]... > > I've been working for 4 hours on a dega setup. I haven't been able to > > create a decent SS setup since N4 came out. I got worse with NR2002,

and

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> > now I REALLY suck or I'm truly mis-understanding something here :) > > > > I took the Jasper setup as a baseline. > > > > I've got the Track Bar cranked DOWN all the way to 8.50 on both sides. > I've > > got the front/rear bias shoved all the way forward. > > > > I've got the front at 800/900 for the weight. > > > > The tape is at 70. > > > > And the damned thing is STILL loose through the center of the corner. > > > > To make matters worse, not only is it loose in the center, but it plows > like > > a bulldozer exiting the turns. > > > > So I have no rear end bite in the center, and no front end bite on exit. > > > > Damn I'm confused! > > > > I have set the tires at 60 all around. That IS still the golden rule

for

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> SS > > tracks, right? Did the new tire model do something to change that? > > > > I noticed that the Jasper setup had the left sides down into the 30's. > I've > > never, ever seent that in a SS setup before, anywhere. > > > > Something else weird. Unless something has changed, I'm still setting

up > > the tire temps using the old +10 deg on the left edges rule-of-thumb. I > can > > get that on the right side, but it's taking major amounts of camber toget

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> > it. Like 6.5 deg, almost max! > > > > On the left, I can't even come close. I've got it maxed at positive 7 > > degree's, and I can't get more than about +2 or 3 on the left tire left > > edge. > > > > So I've got a loosy pushy car, and even running things to the extreem I > > can't seem to do anything about it. > > > > What I wouldn't give for an AI crew chief. I HATE doing setups :) > > > > Larry > > > > > > > >

I feel better now :) I was really losing my mind! Larry "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:yN7%9.25252$[email hidden]...

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> "Larry" wrote... > > And the damned thing is STILL loose through the center > > of the corner. > > > > To make matters worse, not only is it loose in the > > center, but it plows like a bulldozer exiting the > > turns. > > Larry, don't waste your time trying to get this right. The release version > will be changed from the beta demo version to address this problem. > > Jan. > =--- > >

I know this. My point is that NOTHING is reacting the way it does under NR2002 or N4. It's all screwed up it seems. A couple of gents here have verified that there are 'issues' with the Dega in the demo so I'm going to stop fighting it now :) Larry "Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Sun, 02 Feb 2003 06:55:07 GMT, "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >And the damned thing is STILL loose through the center of the corner. > > > >To make matters worse, not only is it loose in the center, but it plowslike

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> >a bulldozer exiting the turns. > > > >So I have no rear end bite in the center, and no front end bite on exit. > > Er. I dunno, if you right click on stuff in the garage it should tell > you how to cure exit understeer and mid-corner oversteer. I'm not > going to give advice tho. > > Also, during races in the N2003 beta the car is going to push a lot > more than in the final product according to the Jasper engineer. > Apparently he feels the aero push affect is overdone at the > superspeedways in the beta build, which I agree with too. It's nice > that you have to wrestle with the car to keep it at the bottom when > you don't have any air on your front spoiler, but with 100% AI > strength you pretty much have to slide entering the turns to keep the > car in the groove. > > Jason

Hehe. This is mainly how I've discovered you can actually rub fenders with the AI in 2003 :) The Dega aero-push in the demo is SO bad, no matter how you set up the car, that you end up shoving up two lanes every time. Larry "Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Yeah, Talladega was the only place it really seemed bothersome, as it was > hugely different running in clean air vs a draft. Even if correct, I can > just imagine the online howls in all those SS races! ;-) > > SB > > "Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Sun, 2 Feb 2003 10:48:31 -0500, "Steve Blankenship" > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > >Glad to hear they're toning the aero push down; I was thinking that was > > >going to be in line for the "most hated sim feature" award of '03. :-) > > > > I believe he said it was being toned down at SS tracks, but not > > anywhere else. I actually like the way it feels at Michigan, makes it > > much harder to tuck your nose under someone and get a good run out of > > a turn. > > > > Jason > >

Realistically, I don't think Areo push IS a problem in real life at Dega. At least it don't seem so the way those guys have been running around the track three and four wide the last couple of seasons. The aero-push in the demo is a bitch though. Larry "Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Sun, 2 Feb 2003 12:55:52 -0500, "Steve Blankenship" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Yeah, Talladega was the only place it really seemed bothersome, as it was > >hugely different running in clean air vs a draft. Even if correct, I can > >just imagine the online howls in all those SS races! ;-) > > I guess they can play with the arcade physics then, huh? =) > > I hope the aero/push is still a significant factor at the SS's, enough > that you still have to really work to keep the car low all the way > around. > > Jason

Interesting. I've always seen nothing but 60 all around at Dega, even in downloaded setups. I'll give it a try. Thanks! So, the 'fast' setup in the release will have the recommended Goodyear pressures ? Larry "Eric Busch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:b1jnfg$ld8$[email hidden]...

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> 60PSI is way too high on the left side and a little high on the right > side as well. I'd suggest you stick closer to the Goodyear recommended > pressures that are used in the fast and jasper setups for maximum grip. > > - Eric > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:fh3%9.82924$[email hidden]... > > > > I have set the tires at 60 all around. That IS still the golden rule > for SS > > tracks, right? Did the new tire model do something to change that? > > > > I noticed that the Jasper setup had the left sides down into the 30's. > I've > > never, ever seent that in a SS setup before, anywhere. > >

Larry, You seem to think you that NR2003 has to follow the same rules as all prior sims, and this just simply isn't the case. The tire info Papy received from goodyear this time around greatly helped to make the tires react much more realistically to certain PSI levels. So while you might be able to build a car that will get around the track with 60 psi all the way around, your basically handicapping yourself against someone who is using pressures closer to what is recommended by goodyear. Believe what you like, I was just trying to point you in the right direction. Jay Taylor "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:KiV%9.100963$[email hidden]...

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> I have never seen a good, fast Dega setup use anything but 60 all around. > Since N2 at least. Anything less and you loose major top-end speed. > > Maybe this has changed in 2003. That's what I'm trying to figure out. > > Larry > > "Jay Taylor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:OS3%9.196$[email hidden]... > > First of all the leaked demo's version of talladega is a good bit > different > > then the release version. > > > > Secondly if you have all your tires set to 60 PSI your only getting a > small > > fraction of the tires grip ability. If you run with pressures closer to > > which you see in the fast and Jasper setups you should notice the car

has > > much more grip. > > > > My best advice is to not waste much time trying to make that perfectdega

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> > setup based off the demo. The game should be in the stores shortly. > > > > Jay Taylor > > > > > > > > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:fh3%9.82924$[email hidden]... > > > I've been working for 4 hours on a dega setup. I haven't been able to > > > create a decent SS setup since N4 came out. I got worse with NR2002, > and > > > now I REALLY suck or I'm truly mis-understanding something here :) > > > > > > I took the Jasper setup as a baseline. > > > > > > I've got the Track Bar cranked DOWN all the way to 8.50 on both sides. > > I've > > > got the front/rear bias shoved all the way forward. > > > > > > I've got the front at 800/900 for the weight. > > > > > > The tape is at 70. > > > > > > And the damned thing is STILL loose through the center of the corner. > > > > > > To make matters worse, not only is it loose in the center, but it

plows > > like > > > a bulldozer exiting the turns. > > > > > > So I have no rear end bite in the center, and no front end bite onexit.

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> > > > > > Damn I'm confused! > > > > > > I have set the tires at 60 all around. That IS still the golden rule > for > > SS > > > tracks, right? Did the new tire model do something to change that? > > > > > > I noticed that the Jasper setup had the left sides down into the 30's. > > I've > > > never, ever seent that in a SS setup before, anywhere. > > > > > > Something else weird. Unless something has changed, I'm still setting > up > > > the tire temps using the old +10 deg on the left edges rule-of-thumb.

I

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> > can > > > get that on the right side, but it's taking major amounts of camber to > get > > > it. Like 6.5 deg, almost max! > > > > > > On the left, I can't even come close. I've got it maxed at positive 7 > > > degree's, and I can't get more than about +2 or 3 on the left tire

left > > > edge. > > > > > > So I've got a loosy pushy car, and even running things to the extreemI

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> > > can't seem to do anything about it. > > > > > > What I wouldn't give for an AI crew chief. I HATE doing setups :) > > > > > > Larry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Jay, You are COMPLETELY mis-understanding me. I was precisely asking IF there was a change from NR2002 and prior and NR2003 and the answer is obviously yes as indicated from others. No worries :) Larry "Jay Taylor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:SKV%9.1303$[email hidden]... > Larry, > You seem to think you that NR2003 has to follow the same rules as allprior > sims, and this just simply isn't the case. The tire info Papy receivedfrom > goodyear this time around greatly helped to make the tires react much more > realistically to certain PSI levels. So while you might be able to builda

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> car that will get around the track with 60 psi all the way around, your > basically handicapping yourself against someone who is using pressures > closer to what is recommended by goodyear. Believe what you like, I was > just trying to point you in the right direction. > > > Jay Taylor > > > > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:KiV%9.100963$[email hidden]... > > I have never seen a good, fast Dega setup use anything but 60 all

around.

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> > Since N2 at least. Anything less and you loose major top-end speed. > > > > Maybe this has changed in 2003. That's what I'm trying to figure out. > > > > Larry > > > > "Jay Taylor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:OS3%9.196$[email hidden]... > > > First of all the leaked demo's version of talladega is a good bit > > different > > > then the release version. > > > > > > Secondly if you have all your tires set to 60 PSI your only getting a > > small > > > fraction of the tires grip ability. If you run with pressures closer

to

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> > > which you see in the fast and Jasper setups you should notice the car > has > > > much more grip. > > > > > > My best advice is to not waste much time trying to make that perfect > dega > > > setup based off the demo. The game should be in the stores shortly. > > > > > > Jay Taylor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:fh3%9.82924$[email hidden]... > > > > I've been working for 4 hours on a dega setup. I haven't been able

to > > > > create a decent SS setup since N4 came out. I got worse withNR2002, > > and > > > > now I REALLY suck or I'm truly mis-understanding something here :) > > > > > > > > I took the Jasper setup as a baseline. > > > > > > > > I've got the Track Bar cranked DOWN all the way to 8.50 on bothsides.

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> > > I've > > > > got the front/rear bias shoved all the way forward. > > > > > > > > I've got the front at 800/900 for the weight. > > > > > > > > The tape is at 70. > > > > > > > > And the damned thing is STILL loose through the center of the

corner.

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> > > > > > > > To make matters worse, not only is it loose in the center, but it > plows > > > like > > > > a bulldozer exiting the turns. > > > > > > > > So I have no rear end bite in the center, and no front end bite on > exit. > > > > > > > > Damn I'm confused! > > > > > > > > I have set the tires at 60 all around. That IS still the golden

rule > > for > > > SS > > > > tracks, right? Did the new tire model do something to change that? > > > > > > > > I noticed that the Jasper setup had the left sides down into the30's. > > > I've > > > > never, ever seent that in a SS setup before, anywhere. > > > > > > > > Something else weird. Unless something has changed, I'm stillsetting > > up > > > > the tire temps using the old +10 deg on the left edgesrule-of-thumb. > I > > > can > > > > get that on the right side, but it's taking major amounts of camberto > > get > > > > it. Like 6.5 deg, almost max! > > > > > > > > On the left, I can't even come close. I've got it maxed at positive7 > > > > degree's, and I can't get more than about +2 or 3 on the left tire > left > > > > edge. > > > > > > > > So I've got a loosy pushy car, and even running things to theextreem

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> I > > > > can't seem to do anything about it. > > > > > > > > What I wouldn't give for an AI crew chief. I HATE doing setups :) > > > > > > > > Larry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >