OT: Saw something interesting at CompUSA today...

This is way OT, but I found it very interesting... I went to CompUSA today for the dreaded yearly purchase of Tax software, and I saw something that really caught my eye. The Intuit TurboTax end-caps and display stands were full to the brim. Barely a box was missing. On the other hand, the TaxCut displays were low on stock. It seems that some really pissed off computer users who do their taxes on their computers are voting with their wallets, and telling Intuit exactly where they can stick their troublesome, intrusive "Product Activation" copy protection. It will be interesting what excuse they give their share-holders this year. They will never admit that they blew it and pissed off their core customer base. I, of course, purchased Tax Cut for the first time ever and that was my intention every since I had learned of Intuits stupid maneuvers this year. Serves them right. Larry

"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:_o1%9.82545$[email hidden]:

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> This is way OT, but I found it very interesting... > > I went to CompUSA today for the dreaded yearly purchase of Tax > software, and I saw something that really caught my eye. > > The Intuit TurboTax end-caps and display stands were full to the brim. > Barely a box was missing. > > On the other hand, the TaxCut displays were low on stock. > > It seems that some really pissed off computer users who do their taxes > on their computers are voting with their wallets, and telling Intuit > exactly where they can stick their troublesome, intrusive "Product > Activation" copy protection. > > It will be interesting what excuse they give their share-holders this > year. They will never admit that they blew it and pissed off their > core customer base. > > I, of course, purchased Tax Cut for the first time ever and that was > my intention every since I had learned of Intuits stupid maneuvers > this year. > > Serves them right. > > Larry >

I've used Turbo Tax for years, I had already chopped up the box and sent in for the rebates before I had heard about thier new copy- protection/activation, so I'm stuck with it for this year, but when I'm done with it...I will be sending Intuit a fairly scathing letter about their practices and next year I'll be using some other product. dave henrie

I will be sending Intuit a fairly scathing letter about > their practices and next year I'll be using some other product. > dave henrie What are they doing now thats makin everyone mad?

They have instituted an online product activation system that makes the one in Windows XP look tame by comparision. It's causing no end of problems for people, especially since those that have already bought it had no warning. One person I read about bought it, had to replace the computer two weeks later due to a failure in the old one, and now it won't run because it's calling him a thief saying he already uses it on another computer! As far as I know he has gotten no satisfaction from Intuit, and he ended up buying another copy. Not to mention people are asking what will happen when years down the road, when they have most likely changed computers, they have to re-install this years version to submit an updated tax return or something and the damned thing won't run because it thinks they are cheating. It's an awful mess, and Intuit is trying politicaly to wiggle themselves out of it with lip-service, but no one is buying. And get this. When you remove TurboTax, the Macrovision Activation based Copy-Protection is NOT removed. BTW... In case you didn't know, from what I hear Quicken 2003 contains the same Activation-based copy protection but I have not been able to verify this. I will not be upgrading beyond Quicken 2002 for this very reason. Larry "frederickson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:XW2%9.6086$[email hidden]...

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> I will be sending Intuit a fairly scathing letter about > > their practices and next year I'll be using some other product. > > dave henrie > > What are they doing now thats makin everyone mad? > > >

"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:um3%9.82962$[email hidden]:

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> They have instituted an online product activation system that makes > the one in Windows XP look tame by comparision. > > It's causing no end of problems for people, especially since those > that have already bought it had no warning. > > One person I read about bought it, had to replace the computer two > weeks later due to a failure in the old one, and now it won't run > because it's calling him a thief saying he already uses it on another > computer! As far as I know he has gotten no satisfaction from Intuit, > and he ended up buying another copy. > > Not to mention people are asking what will happen when years down the > road, when they have most likely changed computers, they have to > re-install this years version to submit an updated tax return or > something and the damned thing won't run because it thinks they are > cheating. > > It's an awful mess, and Intuit is trying politicaly to wiggle > themselves out of it with lip-service, but no one is buying. > > And get this. When you remove TurboTax, the Macrovision Activation > based Copy-Protection is NOT removed. > > BTW... In case you didn't know, from what I hear Quicken 2003 contains > the same Activation-based copy protection but I have not been able to > verify this. > > I will not be upgrading beyond Quicken 2002 for this very reason. > > Larry > > "frederickson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:XW2%9.6086$[email hidden]... >> I will be sending Intuit a fairly scathing letter about >> > their practices and next year I'll be using some other product. >> > dave henrie >> >> What are they doing now thats makin everyone mad? >> >>

They have issued a patch that will eliminate the hidden copy protection files, but that also renders the program useless. Apparently, they plan to free the program from copy protection in November. (so users can reload it at a later date for changes or corrections) One of the paticualarly nasty effects of the Copy protection was the placement of files OUTSIDE the normal range of harddrive formatting. So if you formatted your harddrive and completely wiped out everything,..the Intuit copy protection would still be there. dave henrie

On Sun, 02 Feb 2003 06:31:11 GMT, Dave Henrie wrote:

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>> > I've used Turbo Tax for years, I had already chopped up the box and > sent in for the rebates before I had heard about thier new copy- > protection/activation, so I'm stuck with it for this year, but when I'm > done with it...I will be sending Intuit a fairly scathing letter about > their practices and next year I'll be using some other product. > dave henrie >

I wish everybody would take Dave's advice and done the same about Windows XP... tell Billy to stick it up his rear and stop their invasion on user privacy. The world (or taker culture, for that matter ;-) would probably be a better place. Regards, uwe -- mail replies to Uwe at schuerkamp dot de ( yahoo address is spambox) Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/ Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E) GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:_o1%9.82545$[email hidden]... > This is way OT, but I found it very interesting... snip > I went to CompUSA today for the dreaded yearly purchase of Tax software,and > I saw something that really caught my eye. snip > It seems that some really pissed off computer users who do their taxes on > their computers are voting with their wallets, and telling Intuit exactly > where they can stick their troublesome, intrusive "Product Activation"copy > protection. Same here in Canada with Intuit's Quicktax for Canadian taxes (also CanTax is a Intuit product as well with activation). I happened to read the *inner* flap of the box where they tell you about Product Activation (its not on the outside where you can read it before you buy) before I clicked the "I accept" in the product agreement. Returned it for a refund which is difficult in Canada for an opened box. If software houses are going towards using product activation schemes then they need to get their act together and provide "one stop shopping". They should all use the same criteria as Windows XP and I shpould be able to get clearance for use with one toll free phone call. It would save them money and save me having to hassle with amatuer help. Since all the offline tax software in Canada is controlled by Intuit I'm going the online route this year with Ufile at http://www.ufile.ca/. It will convert the previous years Quicktax personal data too. Just have to remember to do it before the big end of April rush. David

"Uwe hoover Schuerkamp" wrote... > <snip> > I wish everybody would take Dave's advice and done > the same about Windows XP... tell Billy to stick it > up his rear and stop their invasion on user privacy. > The world (or taker culture, for that matter ;-) > would probably be a better place. Hey, I'm not big on privacy and even I haven't upgraded yet! <g> Jan. =---

"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in > news:um3%9.82962$[email hidden]: > One of the paticualarly nasty effects of the Copy protection was the > placement of files OUTSIDE the normal range of harddrive formatting. Soif > you formatted your harddrive and completely wiped out everything,..the > Intuit copy protection would still be there. > dave henrie You mean they dump stuff into the boot sector? I'd love to see how they did this.

XP's product activation is not difficult, extremely easy (couple of mouse clicks online big deal) and they actually have people on the phone that you can talk to to fix things. "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:iP7%9.25256$[email hidden]...

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> "Uwe hoover Schuerkamp" wrote... > > <snip> > > I wish everybody would take Dave's advice and done > > the same about Windows XP... tell Billy to stick it > > up his rear and stop their invasion on user privacy. > > The world (or taker culture, for that matter ;-) > > would probably be a better place. > > Hey, I'm not big on privacy and even I haven't upgraded yet! <g> > > Jan. > =--- > >

Thanks for the tip Dave! I'll spread this around. Does anyone know if TurboTax available in Canada? "David Erb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Ro7%9.57431$[email hidden]... > Since all the offline tax software in Canada is controlled by Intuit I'm > going the online route this year with Ufile at http://www.ufile.ca/. Itwill

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> convert the previous years Quicktax personal data too. Just > have to remember to do it before the big end of April rush. > > David > > >

Intuit was kind enough to also include some spyware with the copy protection. I installs C'dilla to the user PC also. Unfortunately, like many others users, I trusted Intuit and installed it. I now regret it and will not use an Intuit program again untill I'm sure it's clean. I will be sending them a nasty letter. Richard "ZZ" Busch Member: Screamers Racing League CORS RASCAR GPL Rank + 17.415 MoGPL Rank + 318.586 N2002 Rank + 7.695 http://www.ZZBusch.com ---------------- Busch Motorsports: Remember racecar is racecar spelled backward ----------------- Busch Carpentry: A good carpenter can nail anything -----------------

From everything I've read, Quicken2003 isn't worth upgrading to in any event.... Larry wrote:

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> They have instituted an online product activation system that makes the one > in Windows XP look tame by comparision. > > It's causing no end of problems for people, especially since those that have > already bought it had no warning. > > One person I read about bought it, had to replace the computer two weeks > later due to a failure in the old one, and now it won't run because it's > calling him a thief saying he already uses it on another computer! As far > as I know he has gotten no satisfaction from Intuit, and he ended up buying > another copy. > > Not to mention people are asking what will happen when years down the road, > when they have most likely changed computers, they have to re-install this > years version to submit an updated tax return or something and the damned > thing won't run because it thinks they are cheating. > > It's an awful mess, and Intuit is trying politicaly to wiggle themselves out > of it with lip-service, but no one is buying. > > And get this. When you remove TurboTax, the Macrovision Activation based > Copy-Protection is NOT removed. > > BTW... In case you didn't know, from what I hear Quicken 2003 contains the > same Activation-based copy protection but I have not been able to verify > this. > > I will not be upgrading beyond Quicken 2002 for this very reason. > > Larry > > "frederickson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:XW2%9.6086$[email hidden]... > > I will be sending Intuit a fairly scathing letter about > > > their practices and next year I'll be using some other product. > > > dave henrie > > > > What are they doing now thats makin everyone mad? > > > > > >

From everything I've read, Quicken2003 isn't worth upgrading to in any event....

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> They have instituted an online product activation system that makes the one > in Windows XP look tame by comparision. > It's causing no end of problems for people, especially since those that have > already bought it had no warning. > One person I read about bought it, had to replace the computer two weeks > later due to a failure in the old one, and now it won't run because it's > calling him a thief saying he already uses it on another computer! As far > as I know he has gotten no satisfaction from Intuit, and he ended up buying > another copy. > Not to mention people are asking what will happen when years down the road, > when they have most likely changed computers, they have to re-install this > years version to submit an updated tax return or something and the damned > thing won't run because it thinks they are cheating. > It's an awful mess, and Intuit is trying politicaly to wiggle themselves out > of it with lip-service, but no one is buying. > And get this. When you remove TurboTax, the Macrovision Activation based > Copy-Protection is NOT removed. > BTW... In case you didn't know, from what I hear Quicken 2003 contains the > same Activation-based copy protection but I have not been able to verify > this. > I will not be upgrading beyond Quicken 2002 for this very reason. > Larry > > I will be sending Intuit a fairly scathing letter about > > > their practices and next year I'll be using some other product. > > > dave henrie > > What are they doing now thats makin everyone mad?

Hmmm..... I just installed TurboTax yesterday onto my system. I just checked my system for Spyware using Ad-Aware 5.0, and it came back as clean. Luckily I have Goback installed, so that I can revert my hard drive to how it was before Turbotax was installed if I have to (after printing my return and saving it to floppy or CD). Can you verify your statement about the Turbotax spyware, or perhaps my version of Ad-Aware is outdated? (This isn't a knock. I just want to be sure that my system is clean....) Thanks. Bert ZZ Busch wrote:

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> Intuit was kind enough to also include some spyware with the copy > protection. I installs C'dilla to the user PC also. > > Unfortunately, like many others users, I trusted Intuit and installed > it. I now regret it and will not use an Intuit program again untill > I'm sure it's clean. > I will be sending them a nasty letter. > > Richard "ZZ" Busch > > Member: > Screamers Racing League > CORS > RASCAR > GPL Rank + 17.415 > MoGPL Rank + 318.586 > N2002 Rank + 7.695 > > http://www.ZZBusch.com > ---------------- > Busch Motorsports: > Remember racecar is racecar spelled backward > ----------------- > Busch Carpentry: > A good carpenter can nail anything > -----------------

Larry, Can you elaborate a bit on the Macrovision based copy protection that's left on your system even after Turbotax is removed? What are the possible problems that it could cause on a PC? Possible CD-reading problems (similar to what some users experienced with N4), or something else? Just trying to get the complete picture on this. Thanks! Bert Larry wrote:

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> They have instituted an online product activation system that makes the one > in Windows XP look tame by comparision. > > It's causing no end of problems for people, especially since those that have > already bought it had no warning. > > One person I read about bought it, had to replace the computer two weeks > later due to a failure in the old one, and now it won't run because it's > calling him a thief saying he already uses it on another computer! As far > as I know he has gotten no satisfaction from Intuit, and he ended up buying > another copy. > > Not to mention people are asking what will happen when years down the road, > when they have most likely changed computers, they have to re-install this > years version to submit an updated tax return or something and the damned > thing won't run because it thinks they are cheating. > > It's an awful mess, and Intuit is trying politicaly to wiggle themselves out > of it with lip-service, but no one is buying. > > And get this. When you remove TurboTax, the Macrovision Activation based > Copy-Protection is NOT removed. > > BTW... In case you didn't know, from what I hear Quicken 2003 contains the > same Activation-based copy protection but I have not been able to verify > this. > > I will not be upgrading beyond Quicken 2002 for this very reason. > > Larry > > "frederickson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:XW2%9.6086$[email hidden]... > > I will be sending Intuit a fairly scathing letter about > > > their practices and next year I'll be using some other product. > > > dave henrie > > > > What are they doing now thats makin everyone mad? > > > > > >

Larry, Can you elaborate a bit on the Macrovision based copy protection that's left on your system even after Turbotax is removed? What are the possible problems that it could cause on a PC? Possible CD-reading problems (similar to what some users experienced with N4), or something else? Just trying to get the complete picture on this. Thanks! Bert

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> They have instituted an online product activation system that makes the one > in Windows XP look tame by comparision. > It's causing no end of problems for people, especially since those that have > already bought it had no warning. > One person I read about bought it, had to replace the computer two weeks > later due to a failure in the old one, and now it won't run because it's > calling him a thief saying he already uses it on another computer! As far > as I know he has gotten no satisfaction from Intuit, and he ended up buying > another copy. > Not to mention people are asking what will happen when years down the road, > when they have most likely changed computers, they have to re-install this > years version to submit an updated tax return or something and the damned > thing won't run because it thinks they are cheating. > It's an awful mess, and Intuit is trying politicaly to wiggle themselves out > of it with lip-service, but no one is buying. > And get this. When you remove TurboTax, the Macrovision Activation based > Copy-Protection is NOT removed. > BTW... In case you didn't know, from what I hear Quicken 2003 contains the > same Activation-based copy protection but I have not been able to verify > this. > I will not be upgrading beyond Quicken 2002 for this very reason. > Larry > > I will be sending Intuit a fairly scathing letter about > > > their practices and next year I'll be using some other product. > > > dave henrie > > What are they doing now thats makin everyone mad?

In article <_o1%9.82545$[email hidden]>, "Larry" <[email hidden]> writes: >It seems that some really pissed off computer users who do their taxes on >their computers are voting with their wallets, and telling Intuit exactly >where they can stick their troublesome, intrusive "Product Activation" copy >protection. Did they change something with ALL their software, or just tax stuff? I run Quicken 2001 Deluxe. Although I don't have any reason to change at the moment(software runs great), I'd be concerned if I needed to upgrade... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:-0.381 N2002 Rank:+17.59 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

If it's the free version of Ad-aware, there hasn't been an update for it in about 4 months, so it probably wouldn't pick it up. Try using Spybot instead until Ad-aware starts making updates again. -- Slot Tweaks & Reviews www.slottweak.com "BRH @attbi.com>" <"bertrh<no-spam> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Hmmm..... I just installed TurboTax yesterday onto my system. I just > checked my system for Spyware using Ad-Aware 5.0, and it came back as > clean. Luckily I have Goback installed, so that I can revert my hard > drive to how it was before Turbotax was installed if I have to (after > printing my return and saving it to floppy or CD). Can you verify your > statement about the Turbotax spyware, or perhaps my version of Ad-Aware > is outdated? (This isn't a knock. I just want to be sure that my system > is clean....) > > Thanks. > Bert > > > > ZZ Busch wrote: > > > Intuit was kind enough to also include some spyware with the copy > > protection. I installs C'dilla to the user PC also. > > > > Unfortunately, like many others users, I trusted Intuit and installed > > it. I now regret it and will not use an Intuit program again untill > > I'm sure it's clean. > > I will be sending them a nasty letter. > > > > Richard "ZZ" Busch > > > > Member: > > Screamers Racing League > > CORS > > RASCAR > > GPL Rank + 17.415 > > MoGPL Rank + 318.586 > > N2002 Rank + 7.695 > > > > http://www.ZZBusch.com > > ---------------- > > Busch Motorsports: > > Remember racecar is racecar spelled backward > > ----------------- > > Busch Carpentry: > > A good carpenter can nail anything > > ----------------- >

Whoa! Thanks for that tip on Spybot, Slot. It picked up LOTS more stuff than Ad-aware, including C_Dilla. I guess that I'll just print out my return, save it to floppy/CD, then use Goback to return to a point before I installed Turbotax, and run Spybot from there. Thanks for the tip! (Next year, I'll be switching to Tax Cut, too!) Bert GTX_SlotCar wrote:

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> If it's the free version of Ad-aware, there hasn't been an update for it in > about 4 months, so it probably wouldn't pick it up. Try using Spybot instead > until Ad-aware starts making updates again. > > -- > Slot > > Tweaks & Reviews > www.slottweak.com > > "BRH @attbi.com>" <"bertrh<no-spam> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Hmmm..... I just installed TurboTax yesterday onto my system. I just > > checked my system for Spyware using Ad-Aware 5.0, and it came back as > > clean. Luckily I have Goback installed, so that I can revert my hard > > drive to how it was before Turbotax was installed if I have to (after > > printing my return and saving it to floppy or CD). Can you verify your > > statement about the Turbotax spyware, or perhaps my version of Ad-Aware > > is outdated? (This isn't a knock. I just want to be sure that my system > > is clean....) > > > > Thanks. > > Bert > > > > > > > > ZZ Busch wrote: > > > > > Intuit was kind enough to also include some spyware with the copy > > > protection. I installs C'dilla to the user PC also. > > > > > > Unfortunately, like many others users, I trusted Intuit and installed > > > it. I now regret it and will not use an Intuit program again untill > > > I'm sure it's clean. > > > I will be sending them a nasty letter. > > > > > > Richard "ZZ" Busch > > > > > > Member: > > > Screamers Racing League > > > CORS > > > RASCAR > > > GPL Rank + 17.415 > > > MoGPL Rank + 318.586 > > > N2002 Rank + 7.695 > > > > > > http://www.ZZBusch.com > > > ---------------- > > > Busch Motorsports: > > > Remember racecar is racecar spelled backward > > > ----------------- > > > Busch Carpentry: > > > A good carpenter can nail anything > > > ----------------- > >

"David Erb" <[email hidden]> wrote ... > Since all the offline tax software in Canada is controlled by Intuit <snip> Another option is TaxWiz (http://www.taxwiz.ca/). It's non-Intuit, can be used to file electronically, usually available from Office Depot, Future Shop, etc for the same price as QuickTax. Not quite as clean an interface, but I used it last year with no problems. ...Klinn

Just another little tidbit... Starting with Quicken 2004, it will no longer support .QIF file formats for downloading your online banking transactions. They are forcing financial institutions to purchase very expensive licensing for their download products to integrate with their online banking system. I'm a Manager at a $92 million asset credit union and it's extremely cost prohibitive for us to pay for their licensing which means any of our members who will upgrade to 2004 when it is released will no longer be able to import the QIF format we offer. If you have thousands of online banking users paying fees, then you may be able to justify the cost - but for a financial institution our size, it's just not possible. They already took the QFX format away from us last year with an outrageous licensing fee so we are down to OFC (MS Money), OFX, QIF for Quicken 99 and later, QIF for Quicken 98 and earlier, and CSV (Comma separated variables). It's all about the licensing $$$$. =) -- Scott B. Husted PA-Scott ICQ# 4395450 http://www.Husted.cc "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:um3%9.82962$[email hidden]... > They have instituted an online product activation system that makes the one > in Windows XP look tame by comparision. > > It's causing no end of problems for people, especially since those that have > already bought it had no warning. > > One person I read about bought it, had to replace the computer two weeks > later due to a failure in the old one, and now it won't run because it's > calling him a thief saying he already uses it on another computer! As far > as I know he has gotten no satisfaction from Intuit, and he ended up buying > another copy. > > Not to mention people are asking what will happen when years down the road, > when they have most likely changed computers, they have to re-install this > years version to submit an updated tax return or something and the damned > thing won't run because it thinks they are cheating. > > It's an awful mess, and Intuit is trying politicaly to wiggle themselves out > of it with lip-service, but no one is buying. > > And get this. When you remove TurboTax, the Macrovision Activation based > Copy-Protection is NOT removed. > > BTW... In case you didn't know, from what I hear Quicken 2003 contains the > same Activation-based copy protection but I have not been able to verify > this. > > I will not be upgrading beyond Quicken 2002 for this very reason. > > Larry > > "frederickson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:XW2%9.6086$[email hidden]... > > I will be sending Intuit a fairly scathing letter about > > > their practices and next year I'll be using some other product. > > > dave henrie > > > > What are they doing now thats makin everyone mad? > > > > > > > >

Eldred, I posted up above but you may not want to upgrade to anything past 2003 if you download financial transactions from your financial institution. -- Scott B. Husted PA-Scott ICQ# 4395450 http://www.Husted.cc "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <_o1%9.82545$[email hidden]>, "Larry" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >It seems that some really pissed off computer users who do their taxes on > >their computers are voting with their wallets, and telling Intuit exactly > >where they can stick their troublesome, intrusive "Product Activation" copy > >protection. > > Did they change something with ALL their software, or just tax stuff? I run > Quicken 2001 Deluxe. Although I don't have any reason to change at the > moment(software runs great), I'd be concerned if I needed to upgrade... > > Eldred > -- > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPLRank:-0.381 > N2002 Rank:+17.59 > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

>Eldred, > >I posted up above but you may not want to upgrade to anything past 2003 if >you download financial transactions from your financial institution. Ok. I don't download currently, and the program I have seems to be working fine. It's probably a 'non-issue' for me... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:-0.381 N2002 Rank:+17.59 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Quicken 2003 does not contain any copy protection. -Tim "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:um3%9.82962$[email hidden]...

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> BTW... In case you didn't know, from what I hear Quicken 2003 contains the > same Activation-based copy protection but I have not been able to verify > this. > > I will not be upgrading beyond Quicken 2002 for this very reason. > > Larry >

I don't believe QuickTax has the C-Dilla program. I was ticked off also and did alot of reading. You still have to activate the software, but I believe it works like XP. If you can find it on the quicktax.ca site(which sucks) it says the product does not include C-Dilla. And as far as TaxWiz, I think Intuit bought them, so in Canada we don't have much choice. I guess I'll just get my pencil out again. "David Erb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Ro7%9.57431$[email hidden]...

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> > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:_o1%9.82545$[email hidden]... > > This is way OT, but I found it very interesting... > snip > > I went to CompUSA today for the dreaded yearly purchase of Tax software, > and > > I saw something that really caught my eye. > snip > > It seems that some really pissed off computer users who do their taxes

on > > their computers are voting with their wallets, and telling Intuitexactly > > where they can stick their troublesome, intrusive "Product Activation" > copy > > protection. > > Same here in Canada with Intuit's Quicktax for Canadian taxes (also CanTax > is a Intuit product as well with activation). I happened to read the*inner* > flap of the box where they tell you about Product Activation (its not onthe

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> outside where you can read it before you buy) before I clicked the "I > accept" in the product agreement. Returned it for a refund which is > difficult in Canada for an opened box. > > If software houses are going towards using product activation schemes then > they need to get their act together and provide "one stop shopping". They > should all use the same criteria as Windows XP and I shpould be able to

get > clearance for use with one toll free phone call. It would save them money > and save me having to hassle with amatuer help. > > Since all the offline tax software in Canada is controlled by Intuit I'm > going the online route this year with Ufile at http://www.ufile.ca/. Itwill

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> convert the previous years Quicktax personal data too. Just > have to remember to do it before the big end of April rush. > > David > > >

It looks like the TaxCut people weren't _totally_ ready for their new-found success. The other night it took me 5 HOURS to get through to their update servers to get the latest code and forms update. And their auto-updater from within the program is just plain stupid. It doesn't know if it gets a "Server Not Found" error (due to the server overload) when it tries to download the data, and the internal update engine tries to execute/apply the 147 bytes or so of failure text that it does grab. LOL! Larry "David Erb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Ro7%9.57431$[email hidden]... > Same here in Canada with Intuit's Quicktax for Canadian taxes (also CanTax > is a Intuit product as well with activation). I happened to read the*inner* > flap of the box where they tell you about Product Activation (its not onthe

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> outside where you can read it before you buy) before I clicked the "I > accept" in the product agreement. Returned it for a refund which is > difficult in Canada for an opened box. > > If software houses are going towards using product activation schemes then > they need to get their act together and provide "one stop shopping". They > should all use the same criteria as Windows XP and I shpould be able to

get > clearance for use with one toll free phone call. It would save them money > and save me having to hassle with amatuer help. > > Since all the offline tax software in Canada is controlled by Intuit I'm > going the online route this year with Ufile at http://www.ufile.ca/. Itwill

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> convert the previous years Quicktax personal data too. Just > have to remember to do it before the big end of April rush. > > David > > >

<snip>

Pardon my french, but HORSE-SHIT! I have a perfectly legal copy of Windows XP Home and the stupid activation process has triggered on me FIVE times so far, always at the worse possible time. Three of the five times not ONE SINGLE PIECE of hardware was changed. It occured after simple driver updates. And none of the times would it re-activate over the Internet. I had to call the 1-800 number and plead my case with the clerk on the other end of the phone. It was a total waste of my time. I have had friends get locked out of Office XP for no apparant reason (which has been documented in news stories) while on travel, and were unable to complete their work in time to meet deadlines. No one has a snowball's chance in hell of changing my mind about this subject. Product activation treats good customers as guilty criminals from the start, invades on your time, reduces or complicates your upgrade process, and is a general all-around pain in the ass. I done now. Larry "PositiveG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Bx8%9.250969$[email hidden]... > XP's product activation is not difficult, extremely easy (couple of mouse > clicks online big deal) and they actually have people on the phone thatyou

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> can talk to to fix things. > > > "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:iP7%9.25256$[email hidden]... > > "Uwe hoover Schuerkamp" wrote... > > > <snip> > > > I wish everybody would take Dave's advice and done > > > the same about Windows XP... tell Billy to stick it > > > up his rear and stop their invasion on user privacy. > > > The world (or taker culture, for that matter ;-) > > > would probably be a better place. > > > > Hey, I'm not big on privacy and even I haven't upgraded yet! <g> > > > > Jan. > > =--- > > > > > >

Yeah, 2002 works just dandy. But MS will figure out a way to break it with a Windows update eventually. Larry "BRH @attbi.com>" <"bertrh<no-spam> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > From everything I've read, Quicken2003 isn't worth upgrading to in anyevent....

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> > > > > Larry wrote: > > > They have instituted an online product activation system that makes the

one > > in Windows XP look tame by comparision. > > > > It's causing no end of problems for people, especially since those thathave > > already bought it had no warning. > > > > One person I read about bought it, had to replace the computer two weeks > > later due to a failure in the old one, and now it won't run because it's > > calling him a thief saying he already uses it on another computer! Asfar > > as I know he has gotten no satisfaction from Intuit, and he ended upbuying > > another copy. > > > > Not to mention people are asking what will happen when years down theroad, > > when they have most likely changed computers, they have to re-installthis > > years version to submit an updated tax return or something and thedamned > > thing won't run because it thinks they are cheating. > > > > It's an awful mess, and Intuit is trying politicaly to wiggle themselvesout > > of it with lip-service, but no one is buying. > > > > And get this. When you remove TurboTax, the Macrovision Activationbased > > Copy-Protection is NOT removed. > > > > BTW... In case you didn't know, from what I hear Quicken 2003 containsthe

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> > same Activation-based copy protection but I have not been able to verify > > this. > > > > I will not be upgrading beyond Quicken 2002 for this very reason. > > > > Larry > > > > "frederickson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:XW2%9.6086$[email hidden]... > > > I will be sending Intuit a fairly scathing letter about > > > > their practices and next year I'll be using some other product. > > > > dave henrie > > > > > > What are they doing now thats makin everyone mad? > > > > > > > > > >

No, I can't. I didn't install it. I knew about it early and avoided TurboTax in the first place, opting for TaxCut instead for the first time ever. It ain't hard to find stories about this though. A good Google search should net a weeks worth of material :) Larry "BRH @attbi.com>" <"bertrh<no-spam> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Larry, > > Can you elaborate a bit on the Macrovision based copy protection that'sleft on > your system even after Turbotax is removed? What are the possibleproblems that > it could cause on a PC? Possible CD-reading problems (similar to whatsome

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> users experienced with N4), or something else? > > Just trying to get the complete picture on this. > > Thanks! > Bert > > > Larry wrote: > > > They have instituted an online product activation system that makes the

one > > in Windows XP look tame by comparision. > > > > It's causing no end of problems for people, especially since those thathave > > already bought it had no warning. > > > > One person I read about bought it, had to replace the computer two weeks > > later due to a failure in the old one, and now it won't run because it's > > calling him a thief saying he already uses it on another computer! Asfar > > as I know he has gotten no satisfaction from Intuit, and he ended upbuying > > another copy. > > > > Not to mention people are asking what will happen when years down theroad, > > when they have most likely changed computers, they have to re-installthis > > years version to submit an updated tax return or something and thedamned > > thing won't run because it thinks they are cheating. > > > > It's an awful mess, and Intuit is trying politicaly to wiggle themselvesout > > of it with lip-service, but no one is buying. > > > > And get this. When you remove TurboTax, the Macrovision Activationbased > > Copy-Protection is NOT removed. > > > > BTW... In case you didn't know, from what I hear Quicken 2003 containsthe

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> > same Activation-based copy protection but I have not been able to verify > > this. > > > > I will not be upgrading beyond Quicken 2002 for this very reason. > > > > Larry > > > > "frederickson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:XW2%9.6086$[email hidden]... > > > I will be sending Intuit a fairly scathing letter about > > > > their practices and next year I'll be using some other product. > > > > dave henrie > > > > > > What are they doing now thats makin everyone mad? > > > > > > > > > >

I have _read_ that Quicken 2003 also has Product Activation but since 2002 is working just fine for me I have no desire to upgrade and haven't seen 2003 personally. Larry "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <_o1%9.82545$[email hidden]>, "Larry" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >It seems that some really pissed off computer users who do their taxes on > >their computers are voting with their wallets, and telling Intuit exactly > >where they can stick their troublesome, intrusive "Product Activation"copy > >protection. > > Did they change something with ALL their software, or just tax stuff? Irun

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> Quicken 2001 Deluxe. Although I don't have any reason to change at the > moment(software runs great), I'd be concerned if I needed to upgrade... > > Eldred > -- > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPLRank:-0.381 > N2002 Rank:+17.59 > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats

you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

I'd say Intuit sounds like they are trying to reduce themselves down to a smaller company :) I can do without them. Larry "Scott B. Husted�" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:X1w%9.2958$[email hidden]...

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> Just another little tidbit... Starting with Quicken 2004, it will no > longer support .QIF file formats for downloading your online banking > transactions. They are forcing financial institutions to purchase very > expensive licensing for their download products to integrate with their > online banking system. > > I'm a Manager at a $92 million asset credit union and it's extremely cost > prohibitive for us to pay for their licensing which means any of our

members > who will upgrade to 2004 when it is released will no longer be able to > import the QIF format we offer. If you have thousands of online banking > users paying fees, then you may be able to justify the cost - but for a > financial institution our size, it's just not possible. They already took > the QFX format away from us last year with an outrageous licensing fee sowe

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> are down to OFC (MS Money), OFX, QIF for Quicken 99 and later, QIF for > Quicken 98 and earlier, and CSV (Comma separated variables). > > It's all about the licensing $$$$. =) > > -- > Scott B. Husted > PA-Scott > ICQ# 4395450 > http://www.Husted.cc > > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:um3%9.82962$[email hidden]... > > They have instituted an online product activation system that makes the > one > > in Windows XP look tame by comparision. > > > > It's causing no end of problems for people, especially since those that > have > > already bought it had no warning. > > > > One person I read about bought it, had to replace the computer two weeks > > later due to a failure in the old one, and now it won't run because it's > > calling him a thief saying he already uses it on another computer! As

far

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> > as I know he has gotten no satisfaction from Intuit, and he ended up > buying > > another copy. > > > > Not to mention people are asking what will happen when years down the > road, > > when they have most likely changed computers, they have to re-install

this > > years version to submit an updated tax return or something and thedamned

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> > thing won't run because it thinks they are cheating. > > > > It's an awful mess, and Intuit is trying politicaly to wiggle themselves > out > > of it with lip-service, but no one is buying. > > > > And get this. When you remove TurboTax, the Macrovision Activation

based > > Copy-Protection is NOT removed. > > > > BTW... In case you didn't know, from what I hear Quicken 2003 containsthe

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> > same Activation-based copy protection but I have not been able to verify > > this. > > > > I will not be upgrading beyond Quicken 2002 for this very reason. > > > > Larry > > > > "frederickson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:XW2%9.6086$[email hidden]... > > > I will be sending Intuit a fairly scathing letter about > > > > their practices and next year I'll be using some other product. > > > > dave henrie > > > > > > What are they doing now thats makin everyone mad? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Well, at least that's good news :) But are you sure? Larry "Tim Miser" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Quicken 2003 does not contain any copy protection. > > -Tim > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:um3%9.82962$[email hidden]... > > > BTW... In case you didn't know, from what I hear Quicken 2003 contains

the

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> > same Activation-based copy protection but I have not been able to verify > > this. > > > > I will not be upgrading beyond Quicken 2002 for this very reason. > > > > Larry > > > > >

In article <WeV%9.100919$[email hidden]>, "Larry" <[email hidden]> writes: >I have _read_ that Quicken 2003 also has Product Activation but since 2002 >is working just fine for me I have no desire to upgrade and haven't seen >2003 personally. Actually, the only reason I switched to Quicken in the first place was that I started getting errors in MoneyCounts, and there wasn't ANY support available for it. Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:-0.381 N2002 Rank:+17.59 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <jbV%9.100887$[email hidden]>, "Larry" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>Pardon my french, but HORSE-SHIT! > >I have a perfectly legal copy of Windows XP Home and the stupid activation >process has triggered on me FIVE times so far, always at the worse possible >time. > >Three of the five times not ONE SINGLE PIECE of hardware was changed. It >occured after simple driver updates.

Where's Chris H. when ya need him? :-)

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>And none of the times would it re-activate over the Internet. I had to call >the 1-800 number and plead my case with the clerk on the other end of the >phone. It was a total waste of my time. > >I have had friends get locked out of Office XP for no apparant reason (which >has been documented in news stories) while on travel, and were unable to >complete their work in time to meet deadlines. >

That's one of the things that really bugs me. If your system just happens to flake out(for whatever reason), you can't access your data until you get tech support to fix it?!? That's a BIG reason I don't want anything to do with XP on any of MY systems. >No one has a snowball's chance in hell of changing my mind about this >subject. Product activation treats good customers as guilty criminals from >the start, invades on your time, reduces or complicates your upgrade >process, and is a general all-around pain in the ass. > >I done now. Breathe, Larry - breathe... :-) Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:-0.381 N2002 Rank:+17.59 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Sorry, I beg to differ. I've never had this trigger on a simple driver update, on my new system or old one. For example, I recently upgraded my HOME PC. Everything was swapped out except I used the same IBM DarkStar HD. EVERY other piece of Hardware in my system changed. Case, Mainboard, CPU, RAM, Vidcard, floppy, NIC, everything. No problems reactivating on the reinstall. NONE. Final reboot, click on activation, bingo. TOO EASY. Three weeks later, I ghosted the HD over to a new Maxtor one, same thing, new HD detected, NO activiation even came up. Your one bad experence is not the complete picture. "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:jbV%9.100887$[email hidden]... > Pardon my french, but HORSE-SHIT! > > I have a perfectly legal copy of Windows XP Home and the stupidactivation > process has triggered on me FIVE times so far, always at the worsepossible > time.

In article <brY%9.252237$[email hidden]>, "PositiveG" <[email hidden]> writes: >Your one bad experence is not the complete picture. > It is for him... And, he's had it happen FIVE times, not one. He was responding to someone who inferred that the activation procedure was no big deal. So, his criticism was valid. Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:-0.381 N2002 Rank:+17.59 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:jbV%9.100887$[email hidden]:

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> Pardon my french, but HORSE-SHIT! > > I have a perfectly legal copy of Windows XP Home and the stupid > activation process has triggered on me FIVE times so far, always at > the worse possible time. > > Three of the five times not ONE SINGLE PIECE of hardware was changed. > It occured after simple driver updates. > > And none of the times would it re-activate over the Internet. I had > to call the 1-800 number and plead my case with the clerk on the other > end of the phone. It was a total waste of my time. > > I have had friends get locked out of Office XP for no apparant reason > (which has been documented in news stories) while on travel, and were > unable to complete their work in time to meet deadlines. > > No one has a snowball's chance in hell of changing my mind about this > subject. Product activation treats good customers as guilty criminals > from the start, invades on your time, reduces or complicates your > upgrade process, and is a general all-around pain in the ass. > > I done now. > > Larry

Just for the record, I did NOT pay Larry to say that stuff. Although I agree 100%. dave henrie

"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:m4V%9.100847$[email hidden]:

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> It looks like the TaxCut people weren't _totally_ ready for their > new-found success. The other night it took me 5 HOURS to get through > to their update servers to get the latest code and forms update. > > And their auto-updater from within the program is just plain stupid. > It doesn't know if it gets a "Server Not Found" error (due to the > server overload) when it tries to download the data, and the internal > update engine tries to execute/apply the 147 bytes or so of failure > text that it does grab. > > LOL! > > Larry >

Several years ago, when Intuit was still a smalltime company, they put out the tax program before the next year's tax code was finalized. You had to update or your taxes would be totally screwed. Trouble was....on many systems, their updater program crashed before the patches could be installed. It was a nightmare just getting the program to run. dave henrie

Dang Larry, you must be jinxed :). I installed XP Home in Dec of 01. During my time with XP Home, I constantly updated hardware drivers when new releases came out, I changed out the motherboard, processor, sound card, video card, and added a second hard drive. All of these changes were done at seperate times, not together. WPA prompted me to re-activate 1 time during all this, and it was done in seconds over the internet. Upgraded to XP Pro about 5 weeks ago, which of course I had to activate, again in seconds over the internet. I have since put another new motherboard in, with no WPA prompts. Not arguing with you, I believe it is a pain in the butt for a lot of honest XP users, just saying at least for me it has not caused any problems. Don Burnette Larry wrote:

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> Pardon my french, but HORSE-SHIT! > > I have a perfectly legal copy of Windows XP Home and the stupid > activation process has triggered on me FIVE times so far, always at > the worse possible time. > > Three of the five times not ONE SINGLE PIECE of hardware was changed. > It occured after simple driver updates. > > And none of the times would it re-activate over the Internet. I had > to call the 1-800 number and plead my case with the clerk on the > other end of the phone. It was a total waste of my time. > > I have had friends get locked out of Office XP for no apparant reason > (which has been documented in news stories) while on travel, and were > unable to complete their work in time to meet deadlines. > > No one has a snowball's chance in hell of changing my mind about this > subject. Product activation treats good customers as guilty > criminals from the start, invades on your time, reduces or > complicates your upgrade process, and is a general all-around pain in > the ass. > > I done now. > > Larry > > "PositiveG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:Bx8%9.250969$[email hidden]... >> XP's product activation is not difficult, extremely easy (couple of >> mouse clicks online big deal) and they actually have people on the >> phone that you can talk to to fix things. >> >> >> "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in >> message news:iP7%9.25256$[email hidden]... >>> "Uwe hoover Schuerkamp" wrote... >>>> <snip> >>>> I wish everybody would take Dave's advice and done >>>> the same about Windows XP... tell Billy to stick it >>>> up his rear and stop their invasion on user privacy. >>>> The world (or taker culture, for that matter ;-) >>>> would probably be a better place. >>> >>> Hey, I'm not big on privacy and even I haven't upgraded yet! <g> >>> >>> Jan. >>> =---

Rough day :) I've witnessed an excessive share of Silly-User-Tricks today and I'm tense :) Larry "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <jbV%9.100887$[email hidden]>, "Larry" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > Breathe, Larry - breathe... :-) > > Eldred > -- > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPLRank:-0.381 > N2002 Rank:+17.59 > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats

you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

By all means, differ. That doesn't change what I have seen :) Larry "PositiveG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:brY%9.252237$[email hidden]... > Sorry, I beg to differ.

Don, I'm glad you haven't had any problems. I'd hate to think that _most_ people have had to deal with the nonsense I've had to deal with :) And,of course, I reserve the right to not like the idea of the whole thing :) Larry "Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Dang Larry, you must be jinxed :). > > I installed XP Home in Dec of 01. During my time with XP Home, Iconstantly

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> updated hardware drivers when new releases came out, I changed out the > motherboard, processor, sound card, video card, and added a second hard > drive. All of these changes were done at seperate times, not together. WPA > prompted me to re-activate 1 time during all this, and it was done in > seconds over the internet. > Upgraded to XP Pro about 5 weeks ago, which of course I had to activate, > again in seconds over the internet. I have since put another new

motherboard > in, with no WPA prompts. > > Not arguing with you, I believe it is a pain in the butt for a lot ofhonest

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> XP users, just saying at least for me it has not caused any problems. > > Don Burnette > > > Larry wrote: > > Pardon my french, but HORSE-SHIT! > > > > I have a perfectly legal copy of Windows XP Home and the stupid > > activation process has triggered on me FIVE times so far, always at > > the worse possible time. > > > > Three of the five times not ONE SINGLE PIECE of hardware was changed. > > It occured after simple driver updates. > > > > And none of the times would it re-activate over the Internet. I had > > to call the 1-800 number and plead my case with the clerk on the > > other end of the phone. It was a total waste of my time. > > > > I have had friends get locked out of Office XP for no apparant reason > > (which has been documented in news stories) while on travel, and were > > unable to complete their work in time to meet deadlines. > > > > No one has a snowball's chance in hell of changing my mind about this > > subject. Product activation treats good customers as guilty > > criminals from the start, invades on your time, reduces or > > complicates your upgrade process, and is a general all-around pain in > > the ass. > > > > I done now. > > > > Larry > > > > "PositiveG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:Bx8%9.250969$[email hidden]... > >> XP's product activation is not difficult, extremely easy (couple of > >> mouse clicks online big deal) and they actually have people on the > >> phone that you can talk to to fix things. > >> > >> > >> "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in > >> message news:iP7%9.25256$[email hidden]... > >>> "Uwe hoover Schuerkamp" wrote... > >>>> <snip> > >>>> I wish everybody would take Dave's advice and done > >>>> the same about Windows XP... tell Billy to stick it > >>>> up his rear and stop their invasion on user privacy. > >>>> The world (or taker culture, for that matter ;-) > >>>> would probably be a better place. > >>> > >>> Hey, I'm not big on privacy and even I haven't upgraded yet! <g> > >>> > >>> Jan. > >>> =--- > > > >

My point was that I believe that the whole entire XP user communtiy, which is what I meant by "it's not the complete picture" has had minimal technical problems with activation. You tend to hear from the vocal minority in these cases. Now politically it's a hot issue. Technically though, IMO for XP at least, it works. Oh and he was responding to my post. I believe that I have experience with a much larger "pool" of devices then one PC. That's why I felt like responding. There was no inferrence that it's "no big deal". It isn't a big deal, technically for the majority of people. The fact is, in my case (pardon the pun) and hundreds of others installs that I've personally been a part of, we've had "no big deal" with the activation. I've had hundreds of customers using software that I support on XP (custom VPN software, not a pleasent thing to install on home users). I've had issues with that software installing on some hardware (crappy NIC drivers), but none of these new users have told me the XP activation was an issue (BTW, its 100's of employees buying NEW home clones on a company purchase plan). For his one unit it certainly sounds like he's had issues. "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <brY%9.252237$[email hidden]>, "PositiveG" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >Your one bad experence is not the complete picture. > > > > It is for him... > And, he's had it happen FIVE times, not one. He was responding to someone

who > inferred that the activation procedure was no big deal. So, his criticismwas > valid. > > Eldred