Laguna 95 - An Appreciation

Frank Siebeck's magnificent version (laguna95) of Laguna Seca is, in my not-so-humble opinion, the finest track that has ever been produced for GPL. It is dead accurate, as near as I can tell. I've spectated there often, and rented the track for 2 days some years ago to make a Chevy commercial with Phil Hill, and logged literally hundreds of laps, both as Phil's passenger and chasing him with the camera car. (Siebeck's is the penultimate track layout, not the one with the recent revisions to T11.) Not only is the track map accurate, but the soaring, swooping, diving elevation changes are, too. The Corkscrew is hard to get right, but Siebeck, et al., have nailed it. The surfaces, textures, traction, gravel traps, buildings and off-track objects are also correct (flags wave gaily in the breeze), as are Simon Stobbart's northern California skies and horizon (exactly what I would have chosen). The signage is letter-perfect. There is so much detail, in fact, that the track is a CPU eater...but I wouldn't have it any other way. I'd rather get a new mobo than turn down any of this lovely detail. Also great is Paul Jackson's sample replay, showing the way the track *should be* driven: aggresively yet with amazing grace. I haven't been able to get within 10 seconds of his time (a 1:27.02), despite having spent all yesterday at the track. Above all else, this track is fun to drive; the best GPL driving experience ever. The default setups are excellent, altho I prefer much closer gear ratios, and need higher tire pressures ('cuz I'm obviously not driving hard enuf to work the proper heat into 'em). I tried a couple of AI races (after turning down the RELS a coupla clicks), and the AI is excellent as well. Passing is not going to be easy online, but I expect this track will quickly become a popular favorite on VROC. If I had to find a minor fault with this track, I don't remember the downhill left (T9) being quite as tricky as it is here. But I fully expect to see many reprises of Zanardi's historic move on Herta (the best pass of the 20th century) enacted in the preceding Corkscrew. See you at the races. --Steve Smith

"Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ucP%9.47126$[email hidden]... > Frank Siebeck's magnificent version (laguna95) of Laguna Seca is, in my > not-so-humble opinion, the finest track that has ever been produced forGPL. > > It is dead accurate, as near as I can tell. I've spectated there often,and

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> rented the track for 2 days some years ago to make a Chevy commercial with > Phil Hill, and logged literally hundreds of laps, both as Phil's passenger > and chasing him with the camera car. (Siebeck's is the penultimate track > layout, not the one with the recent revisions to T11.) > > Not only is the track map accurate, but the soaring, swooping, diving > elevation changes are, too. The Corkscrew is hard to get right, but > Siebeck, et al., have nailed it. The surfaces, textures, traction, gravel > traps, buildings and off-track objects are also correct (flags wave gaily

in

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> the breeze), as are Simon Stobbart's northern California skies and horizon > (exactly what I would have chosen). The signage is letter-perfect. > > There is so much detail, in fact, that the track is a CPU eater...but I > wouldn't have it any other way. I'd rather get a new mobo than turn down > any of this lovely detail. > > Also great is Paul Jackson's sample replay, showing the way the track > *should be* driven: aggresively yet with amazing grace. I haven't been

able > to get within 10 seconds of his time (a 1:27.02), despite having spent all > yesterday at the track. Above all else, this track is fun to drive; the > best GPL driving experience ever. > > The default setups are excellent, altho I prefer much closer gear ratios, > and need higher tire pressures ('cuz I'm obviously not driving hard enufto > work the proper heat into 'em). > > I tried a couple of AI races (after turning down the RELS a couplaclicks), > and the AI is excellent as well. Passing is not going to be easy online, > but I expect this track will quickly become a popular favorite on VROC. > > If I had to find a minor fault with this track, I don't remember the > downhill left (T9) being quite as tricky as it is here. But I fullyexpect > to see many reprises of Zanardi's historic move on Herta (the best pass of > the 20th century) enacted in the preceding Corkscrew. > > See you at the races. > > --Steve Smith I agree, I am having a blast on this track! They are working on reducing the draw distance and getting smaller textures to offset some of the problems people, myself included, are having with frame rate. Particularly on the first lap at T2 and coming around rainy curve(?) after the corkscrew. Regardless, I have waited a long time for this track. My best soar is 1:34:36 in the Ferrari. geo

In article <ucP%9.47126$[email hidden]>, "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> writes: >Also great is Paul Jackson's sample replay, showing the way the track >*should be* driven: aggresively yet with amazing grace. I haven't been able >to get within 10 seconds of his time (a 1:27.02), despite having spent all >yesterday at the track. Above all else, this track is fun to drive; the >best GPL driving experience ever. Paul Jackson?!? That guy is overdue for his return trip on the mothership. I'm in a league with him, and he's MILES ahead of everyone else in laptimes... Amazing... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:-0.381 N2002 Rank:+17.59 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <3e3ff609$[email hidden]>, G_Money <clanbeck@-splam- msn.com> writes > >"Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:ucP%9.47126$[email hidden]... >> <snip>

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>> Also great is Paul Jackson's sample replay, showing the way the track >> *should be* driven: aggresively yet with amazing grace. I haven't been >able >> to get within 10 seconds of his time (a 1:27.02), despite having spent all >> yesterday at the track. Above all else, this track is fun to drive; the >> best GPL driving experience ever. >>

Have you had a look at his replay? That driving line looks a bit dodgy after the s/f line though. Surely it would have been instance disqualification in a real race. Pity a traffic cone or 2 wasn't added around that area to prevent it happening. >> The default setups are excellent, altho I prefer much closer gear ratios, >> and need higher tire pressures ('cuz I'm obviously not driving hard enuf >to >> work the proper heat into 'em). >> Far too much front brake bias and, like you say, the gear ratios seem too far apart (I haven't even gotten into 5th gear in the Lotus). Also the camber is way off. <snip> -- Peter Ives (AKA Pete Ivington) Remove ALL_STRESS before replying via email If you know what's good for you, don't listen to me :) GPLRank Joystick -50.63 Wheel -21.77

G_Money wrote:

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>"Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:ucP%9.47126$[email hidden]... > >>Frank Siebeck's magnificent version (laguna95) of Laguna Seca is, in my >>not-so-humble opinion, the finest track that has ever been produced for >> >GPL. > >>It is dead accurate, as near as I can tell. I've spectated there often,... >> >>There is so much detail, in fact, that the track is a CPU eater...but I >>wouldn't have it any other way. I'd rather get a new mobo than turn down >>any of this lovely detail... >> >> >>See you at the races. >> >>--Steve Smith >> > > >I agree, I am having a blast on this track! They are working on reducing >the draw distance and >getting smaller textures to offset some of the problems people, myself >included, are having with >frame rate. Particularly on the first lap at T2 and coming around rainy >curve(?) after the corkscrew. > >Regardless, I have waited a long time for this track. My best soar is >1:34:36 in the Ferrari. > >geo >

I hope those reading this thread aren't put off trying the track because of the texture-load affecting frame rates. I get a bit of a frame-rate hit on my old 600mHz Celeron with a Voodoo 3 2K; but this track's so gorgeous it's worth looking at even if you can't race it. I also happen to agree with Peter Ives' setup comments: Far too much front brake bias and, like you say, the gear ratios seem too far apart (I haven't even gotten into 5th gear in the Lotus). Also the camber is way off Jim

Not sure which chassis you guys are using, but the Ferrari default was not even designed for that track. Having just driven Brands Hatch a few minutes before trying Laguna, I noticed that both tracks had the exact same default setups for the Ferrari. Same author? Anyway there was more diff lock than I could handle, even though I usually like a pretty tight diff. I ended up having to tweak just about everything. Not that it did much good, the track is undriveable on my CPU. Pretty though. "The Carvalho Family" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > I hope those reading this thread aren't put off trying the track because > of the texture-load affecting frame rates. I get a bit of a frame-rate > hit on my old 600mHz Celeron with a Voodoo 3 2K; but this track's so > gorgeous it's worth looking at even if you can't race it. > > I also happen to agree with Peter Ives' setup comments: > > > Far too much front brake bias and, like you say, the gear ratios seem > too far apart (I haven't even gotten into 5th gear in the Lotus). Also > the camber is way off > > Jim >

So yer saying that it's not a great track because PJ has a bobble and still turns a 1:27 or because some people prefer a more realistic fwd. brake bias? "Peter Ives" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <3e3ff609$[email hidden]>, G_Money <clanbeck@-splam- > msn.com> writes > > > >"Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >news:ucP%9.47126$[email hidden]... > >> > > <snip> > > >> Also great is Paul Jackson's sample replay, showing the way the track > >> *should be* driven: aggresively yet with amazing grace. I haven't been > >able > >> to get within 10 seconds of his time (a 1:27.02), despite having spent

all > >> yesterday at the track. Above all else, this track is fun to drive;the

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> >> best GPL driving experience ever. > >> > > Have you had a look at his replay? That driving line looks a bit dodgy > after the s/f line though. Surely it would have been instance > disqualification in a real race. Pity a traffic cone or 2 wasn't added > around that area to prevent it happening. > > >> The default setups are excellent, altho I prefer much closer gear

ratios, > >> and need higher tire pressures ('cuz I'm obviously not driving hardenuf

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> >to > >> work the proper heat into 'em). > >> > > Far too much front brake bias and, like you say, the gear ratios seem > too far apart (I haven't even gotten into 5th gear in the Lotus). Also > the camber is way off. > > <snip> > -- > Peter Ives (AKA Pete Ivington) > Remove ALL_STRESS before replying via email > If you know what's good for you, don't listen to me :) > GPLRank Joystick -50.63 Wheel -21.77

Whose Brands? Curiously, I drove Laguna 95, Dave Noonan's old Brands (admittedly not very realistic), and the Brands that's available for the NH mod "Ferrari Challenge" all in the same morning and marvelled at how similar the British track is to Laguna. I'm not surprised the setups are likewise similar, but doubt that any two setups in this trio (and/or Brandsindy) were done by the same individual(s). "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:b1sm4l$16tnlk$[email hidden]... > Not sure which chassis you guys are using, but the Ferrari default was not > even designed for that track. Having just driven Brands Hatch a fewminutes > before trying Laguna, I noticed that both tracks had the exact samedefault > setups for the Ferrari. Same author? Anyway there was more diff lockthan > I could handle, even though I usually like a pretty tight diff. I endedup > having to tweak just about everything. Not that it did much good, thetrack

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> is undriveable on my CPU. Pretty though. > > > "The Carvalho Family" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > I hope those reading this thread aren't put off trying the track because > > of the texture-load affecting frame rates. I get a bit of a frame-rate > > hit on my old 600mHz Celeron with a Voodoo 3 2K; but this track's so > > gorgeous it's worth looking at even if you can't race it. > > > > I also happen to agree with Peter Ives' setup comments: > > > > > > Far too much front brake bias and, like you say, the gear ratios seem > > too far apart (I haven't even gotten into 5th gear in the Lotus). Also > > the camber is way off > > > > Jim > > > >

It was Brands for GPL, which I guess is probably Noonan's. Perhaps both authors downloaded the setup from somebody else? "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Zyt0a.2016$[email hidden]... > Whose Brands? Curiously, I drove Laguna 95, Dave Noonan's old Brands > (admittedly not very realistic), and the Brands that's available for theNH > mod "Ferrari Challenge" all in the same morning and marvelled at howsimilar > the British track is to Laguna. I'm not surprised the setups are likewise > similar, but doubt that any two setups in this trio (and/or Brandsindy)were > done by the same individual(s). >

BTW- Steve, you mentioned "the pass" by Zanardi. How about the one Mika Hakkinen put on M. Schumacher at Spa in 2000, splittig a back-marker? That one was pretty spectacular, too, I'd say. Zonta had to be freaked out seeing that.

That's gotta be the world's oldest setup (except for my grandmother's dinner table). Yes, I've been driving the Ferrari @ Laguna 95, and yes, I've made some major changes from the default, but I've ascribed that to my fondness for oddball setups (wildly asymmetrical, for example), which is why I stopped giving setup advice. But I have to admit the brake bias is a little too forward for even my purist taste (I don't do simultaneous brake+throttle 'cuz my heros wouldn't've). As a dead-keen devotee of close ratios, I'm thrilled that I can pack all the gears within 800 rpm or so of each other. Makes the car sound as racy as the 6-speeds in GTR & NH's FC. "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:b1uska$16faag$[email hidden]...

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> It was Brands for GPL, which I guess is probably Noonan's. Perhaps both > authors downloaded the setup from somebody else? > > > "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:Zyt0a.2016$[email hidden]... > > Whose Brands? Curiously, I drove Laguna 95, Dave Noonan's old Brands > > (admittedly not very realistic), and the Brands that's available for the > NH > > mod "Ferrari Challenge" all in the same morning and marvelled at how > similar > > the British track is to Laguna. I'm not surprised the setups are

likewise > > similar, but doubt that any two setups in this trio (and/or Brandsindy) > were > > done by the same individual(s). > > > >

In article <Dut0a.2014$[email hidden]>, Steve Smith <[email hidden]> writes >So yer saying that it's not a great track because PJ has a bobble and still >turns a 1:27 or because some people prefer a more realistic fwd. brake >bias? > Sorry Steve, it is a great track, no doubt about it. I was replying to the quotes where guys couldn't get close to the 1:27 laptime and was just saying that, if you look at the line after the s/f then it appears that your going to have to drive a completely unrealistic line in order to be quick here. If you prefer more brake bias then fine, it's just not for me. BTW, where did I criticise the track?

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>"Peter Ives" <[email hidden]> wrote in >message >news:[email hidden]... >> In article <3e3ff609$[email hidden]>, G_Money ><clanbeck@-splam- >> msn.com> writes >> > >> >"Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> >news:ucP%9.47126$[email hidden]... >> >> >> >> <snip> >> >> >> Also great is Paul Jackson's sample replay, showing the way the track >> >> *should be* driven: aggresively yet with amazing grace. I haven't been >> >able >> >> to get within 10 seconds of his time (a 1:27.02), despite having spent >all >> >> yesterday at the track. Above all else, this track is fun to drive; >the >> >> best GPL driving experience ever. >> >> >> >> Have you had a look at his replay? That driving line looks a bit dodgy >> after the s/f line though. Surely it would have been instance >> disqualification in a real race. Pity a traffic cone or 2 wasn't added >> around that area to prevent it happening. >> >> >> The default setups are excellent, altho I prefer much closer gear >ratios, >> >> and need higher tire pressures ('cuz I'm obviously not driving hard >enuf >> >to >> >> work the proper heat into 'em). >> >> >> >> Far too much front brake bias and, like you say, the gear ratios seem >> too far apart (I haven't even gotten into 5th gear in the Lotus). Also >> the camber is way off. >>

-- Peter Ives (AKA Pete Ivington) Remove ALL_STRESS before replying via email If you know what's good for you, don't listen to me :) GPLRank Joystick -50.63 Wheel -21.77

"Steve Smith" wrote: > Frank Siebeck's magnificent version (laguna95) of Laguna Seca is, in my > not-so-humble opinion, the finest track that has ever been produced for GPL. Yes, it is excellent. No doubt the most significant release of the week :) Cheers Tony