Which console racing game has the best physics model ever ??

Which console racer comes the closest to having sim quality physics ?

"amp green" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:SrV1a.17165$[email hidden]... > Which console racer comes the closest to having sim quality physics ? > Ferrari F355 for the Dreamcast. -- Joe M.

In article <[email hidden]>, "Joe M." <[email hidden]> wrote: >"amp green" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:SrV1a.17165$[email hidden]... >> Which console racer comes the closest to having sim quality physics ? > >Ferrari F355 for the Dreamcast. That's the general consensus. I assume the PS2 port is about the same? Alas, it reportedly isn't really any better in any regard, just a port.

Yeah, the best is 'F355 Challenge' for Dreamcast/PS2. Next best in terms of physics would be a toss-up between 'Vanishing Point' on Dreamcast and Project Gotham Racing on Xbox.

I agree that F355 has great physics, but the more I play it, the more canned it feels when the car reaches the limit. It's not nearly as canned as GP3 on the PC, for example, but there are areas of oversteer and recovery that have a bit of a stale, overly-recoverable feeling. Still, I find it extremely enjoyable even after playing it for over 2 years on the Dreamcast. In my opinion, World of Outlaws Sprint Car Racing on PS2 has a really good physics model. I'd only recommend it if you're into oval or dirt racing, but there are few things more fun than being in a drift for more than 50% of every lap, racing against intelligent AI. Plus, it's a budget title and shouldn't run more than $30. I haven't played Vanishing Point or Gotham, but it sounds like I may have to look for Vanishing Point in a bargain bin somewhere. Redmist <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:b29lhd$19ltor$[email hidden]... > Yeah, the best is 'F355 Challenge' for Dreamcast/PS2. Next best in termsof > physics would be a toss-up between 'Vanishing Point' on Dreamcast and > Project Gotham Racing on Xbox. > > >

Yeah, agreed, but be warned, Vanishing Point isn't a racing game - it's more of a driving game.

Tex wrote: > > I agree that F355 has great physics, but the more I play it, the more canned > it feels when the car reaches the limit. It's not nearly as canned as GP3 > on the PC, for example, but there are areas of oversteer and recovery that > have a bit of a stale, overly-recoverable feeling. Still, I find it > extremely enjoyable even after playing it for over 2 years on the Dreamcast. I found F355 very entertaining in the arcades (with three large screens!)... Never dared to buy it to PS2 due to its bad reviews compared to Gran Turismo. But what about Gran Turismo 3? Marvellous sounds and graphics. Great tutorials when obtaining racing licenses. I just can't stop playing it. The physics feels quite good too... Or?

> I agree that F355 has great physics, but the more I play it, the more canned > it feels when the car reaches the limit. It's not nearly as canned as GP3 > on the PC, for example, but there are areas of oversteer and recovery that > have a bit of a stale, overly-recoverable feeling. Still, I find it > extremely enjoyable even after playing it for over 2 years on the Dreamcast. I found F355 very entertaining in the arcades (with three large screens!)... Never dared to buy it to PS2 due to its bad reviews compared to Gran Turismo. But what about Gran Turismo 3? Marvellous sounds and graphics. Great tutorials when obtaining racing licenses. I just can't stop playing it. The physics feels quite good too... Or?

"Stefan Larsson" <"last"@(nospam)s2.chalmers.se> wrote in message news:b2adt7$s34$[email hidden]... > Tex wrote: > > > > I agree that F355 has great physics, but the more I play it, the morecanned > > it feels when the car reaches the limit. It's not nearly as canned asGP3 > > on the PC, for example, but there are areas of oversteer and recoverythat > > have a bit of a stale, overly-recoverable feeling. Still, I find it > > extremely enjoyable even after playing it for over 2 years on theDreamcast.

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> > I found F355 very entertaining in the arcades (with three large > screens!)... > Never dared to buy it to PS2 due to its bad reviews compared to Gran > Turismo. > > But what about Gran Turismo 3? Marvellous sounds and graphics. Great > tutorials when obtaining racing licenses. I just can't stop playing it. > The physics feels quite good too... Or?

The big draw back for me is permanent anti-lock brakes. You drive a 700 HP car and cannot lock the wheels. I do like the overall feel. I also rate F355 higher as a RACING experience, the AI is challenging and fairly human. GT3 has hot lapping bots that don't even care if you're in the way, they simply drive through you. -- Joe M.

Does F355 have an in-car cockpit view ? Larry "Redmist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:b29lhd$19ltor$[email hidden]... > Yeah, the best is 'F355 Challenge' for Dreamcast/PS2. Next best in termsof > physics would be a toss-up between 'Vanishing Point' on Dreamcast and > Project Gotham Racing on Xbox. > >

In GT3, you can turn off traction control and ABS from the car setup screens. Totally agree about the dumb AI though. The physics are pretty good and you can have some great races, but the physics are not 100% convincing. I loved F355 in the arcade, but the deadzone on the PS2 version is horrible, so bad I took it back for a refund. (Logitech FF wheel) -- Ian P <email invalid due to spam> "Joe M." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "Stefan Larsson" <"last"@(nospam)s2.chalmers.se> wrote in message > news:b2adt7$s34$[email hidden]... > > > > But what about Gran Turismo 3? Marvellous sounds and graphics. Great > > tutorials when obtaining racing licenses. I just can't stop playing it. > > The physics feels quite good too... Or? > > The big draw back for me is permanent anti-lock brakes. You drive a 700 HP > car and cannot lock the wheels. I do like the overall feel. I also rate > F355 higher as a RACING experience, the AI is challenging and fairly human. > GT3 has hot lapping bots that don't even care if you're in the way, they > simply drive through you. > > -- > Joe M. > >

It's a unique view - hood view with the top of the steering wheel visible. Great perspective for driving, beats the hell out of the crappy bumper cam in most console racers. -- Joe M. "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:gA92a.27278$[email hidden]... > Does F355 have an in-car cockpit view ? > > Larry > > "Redmist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:b29lhd$19ltor$[email hidden]... > > Yeah, the best is 'F355 Challenge' for Dreamcast/PS2. Next best in terms > of > > physics would be a toss-up between 'Vanishing Point' on Dreamcast and > > Project Gotham Racing on Xbox. > > > > > >

Sounds better than bumper cam :) I HATE bumper-cam. My ass is too big for the front bumper anyway. Larry "Joe M." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> It's a unique view - hood view with the top of the steering wheel visible. > Great perspective for driving, beats the hell out of the crappy bumper cam > in most console racers. > > -- > Joe M. > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:gA92a.27278$[email hidden]... > > Does F355 have an in-car cockpit view ? > > > > Larry > > > > "Redmist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:b29lhd$19ltor$[email hidden]... > > > Yeah, the best is 'F355 Challenge' for Dreamcast/PS2. Next best in > terms > > of > > > physics would be a toss-up between 'Vanishing Point' on Dreamcast and > > > Project Gotham Racing on Xbox. > > > > > > > > > > > >

The hands-down winner of the Nobel Prize for Physics is "World of Outlaws: Sprint Cars" for the PS2. The best console racing-game reviews are written by Randy Magruder over @ Digital Sportspages (www.digitalsports.com). "amp green" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:SrV1a.17165$[email hidden]... > Which console racer comes the closest to having sim quality physics ? >

amp green <[email hidden]> wrote in news:SrV1a.17165$[email hidden]: > Which console racer comes the closest to having sim quality physics ? > sega gt2002 for xbox, very underated, cars like honda nsx and mazda mx5 feel great and the classic cars are a refreshing change.

Tango, I don't want to turd in your freshly made bowl of soup, but I simply could not stand Sega GT 2002. It felt horrific...and the graphics...whilst they looked decent enough in replays...there was this strange flickering that occurred in front of your car - extremely offputting. And no it wasn't just me....even people who love the game gripe about the weird graphics effect. The handling was woeful...I raced a lot of the cars and they just didn't feel like cars. More like ships. Buy a new 350Z...drive it....and be dissapointed. Put racing suspension on it and it still feels like a ship. And the sound is the worst I've heard in any racing game in the last few years. All the cars sound like constipated vacuum cleaners being strangled. I tried to like it, but after a month I just hated it more and more and sold it on Ebay. I get a lot more satisfaction out of Project Gotham, hell, even CMR3 and Total Immersion Racing. I'd agree that WOO - Sprint Cars offers the most fantastic driving experience...even if you're not into sprint cars you'll get a thrill being sideways the whole lap, side by side with the AI, pulling wheelies down the straights due to the enourmous power and low weight. "tango" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> amp green <[email hidden]> wrote in > news:SrV1a.17165$[email hidden]: > > > Which console racer comes the closest to having sim quality physics ? > > > > sega gt2002 for xbox, very underated, cars like honda nsx and mazda mx5 > feel great and the classic cars are a refreshing change.

> sega gt2002 for xbox, very underated, cars like honda nsx and mazda mx5 > feel great and the classic cars are a refreshing change. Gotta disagree there. Sega GT 2002 has some of the worst physics currently going around. The cars handle like ballons and are less fun than driving a nail. Turning off traction control and ABS actually makes the physics feel worse. Ugh! Even Gran Turismo 3 is better.

>The best console racing-game reviews are written by Randy Magruder over @ >Digital Sportspages (www.digitalsports.com). Total agreement. >Yeah, the best is 'F355 Challenge' for Dreamcast/PS2. Next best >in terms of physics would be a toss-up between 'Vanishing Point' >on Dreamcast and Project Gotham Racing on Xbox. Again, agree on the first. As to PGR, are you serious??? >In GT3, you can turn off traction control and ABS from the car >setup screens. No, you can turn off TC and anti-skid, but ABS is always on. SegaGT2002: Far, far better than the original SegaGT. But in the end, I found it nowhere near as engrossing as GT3. Also, the power-on loss of traction in Sega is bizarre. Get the wheels spinning, lay off the throttle, and they continue to spin for seconds. Almost impossible to get it to handle once tires are slightly worn. I'm still happy with GT3's handling. Sure, I'd like to turn off ABS. Also, top speeds (and probably accel) are unrealistic for the power of a given vehicle. Surprising that they would falter on something so easy to model.

> >Yeah, the best is 'F355 Challenge' for Dreamcast/PS2. Next best > >in terms of physics would be a toss-up between 'Vanishing Point' > >on Dreamcast and Project Gotham Racing on Xbox. > > Again, agree on the first. As to PGR, are you serious??? PGR has very obvious arcadiness, however its driving/physics model is far more involving and challenging than the likes of SegaGT2K2 and GT3. Those games are strictly for people who like looking at cars rather than driving them.

"Joe M." <[email hidden]> writes: > "amp green" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:SrV1a.17165$[email hidden]... > > Which console racer comes the closest to having sim quality physics ? > > > > Ferrari F355 for the Dreamcast. WRC II Extreme deserves a mention as well. -- Gunnar Cougar#02748 #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 it is better to have liver and potatoes, than not to have liver at all.

You might technically be able to turn of ABS (I haven't played GT3 in over 6 months so I don't recall) but in reality the wheels never lock in that game. Too bad about the dead zone on the PS2. I used a $50 TM Ferrari wheel on the DC that had nice spring tension and it was surprisingly good. -- Joe M. "Ian P" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:b2brfq$leq$[email hidden]... > In GT3, you can turn off traction control and ABS from the car setup > screens. > Totally agree about the dumb AI though. > The physics are pretty good and you can have some great races, but the > physics are not 100% convincing. > > I loved F355 in the arcade, but the deadzone on the PS2 version is horrible, > so bad I took it back for a refund. (Logitech FF wheel) > > -- > > Ian P > <email invalid due to spam> > > > "Joe M." <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > "Stefan Larsson" <"last"@(nospam)s2.chalmers.se> wrote in message > > news:b2adt7$s34$[email hidden]... > > > > > > > But what about Gran Turismo 3? Marvellous sounds and graphics. Great > > > tutorials when obtaining racing licenses. I just can't stop playing it. > > > The physics feels quite good too... Or? > > > > The big draw back for me is permanent anti-lock brakes. You drive a 700 > HP > > car and cannot lock the wheels. I do like the overall feel. I also rate > > F355 higher as a RACING experience, the AI is challenging and fairly > human. > > GT3 has hot lapping bots that don't even care if you're in the way, they > > simply drive through you. > > > > -- > > Joe M. > > > > > >

"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:_kb2a.28813$[email hidden]... > Sounds better than bumper cam :) I HATE bumper-cam. My ass is too bigfor > the front bumper anyway. > Might be time to run instead of drive. :0) -- Joe M.

>PGR has very obvious arcadiness, however its driving/physics model is far >more involving and challenging than the likes of SegaGT2K2 and GT3. Those >games are strictly for people who like looking at cars rather than driving >them. Aren't the cars in PGR far too grippy? And, perhaps conversely, too easy to get into lurid tailslides? Yes, I like looking at the car models in GT3. But I far more enjoy endless hotlapping of them.

"Aren't the cars in PGR far too grippy? And, perhaps conversely, too easy to get into lurid tailslides?" LOL!!! Talk about an oxymoron. Anyway, I find PGR to be very nice. I do prefer the handling over GT3. Yes you can do massive powerslides (hell it's the object of the game), but you can certainly do the same things in real life Ferraris, Porsches etc! Of all the driving games on the XBOX, PGR has the best feel. I wish WOO-sprintcars would come out on the xbox though. massivechicken <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:DTh2a.10905$[email hidden]... > > >PGR has very obvious arcadiness, however its driving/physics model is far > >more involving and challenging than the likes of SegaGT2K2 and GT3.Those > >games are strictly for people who like looking at cars rather thandriving

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> >them. > > Aren't the cars in PGR far too grippy? And, perhaps conversely, > too easy to get into lurid tailslides? > > Yes, I like looking at the car models in GT3. But I far more > enjoy endless hotlapping of them.

Ian P wrote: > > In GT3, you can turn off traction control and ABS from the car setup > screens. > Totally agree about the dumb AI though. > The physics are pretty good and you can have some great races, but the > physics are not 100% convincing. Might be so, but I totally enjoy driving the Mitsubishi Evo VII! I'm so tired of F1-games and I really do long for very realistic simulations involving "real" cars... I hope that they will manage to implement a damage model into GT4 when it comes... The car manufacturers are apparently arguing about that matter though. :( http://gtsc.netfirms.com/gt4info.htm In my opinion, console racers are performing much better than the PC versions since the hardware is known and it is possible to push the last little bits out of it. No lockups... :) > I loved F355 in the arcade, but the deadzone on the PS2 version is horrible, > so bad I took it back for a refund. (Logitech FF wheel) So I should stick to the arcade then... I was thinking about buying F355, but I bought Pro Evolution Soccer 2 instead... :\

> In GT3, you can turn off traction control and ABS from the car setup > screens. > Totally agree about the dumb AI though. > The physics are pretty good and you can have some great races, but the > physics are not 100% convincing. Might be so, but I totally enjoy driving the Mitsubishi Evo VII! I'm so tired of F1-games and I really do long for very realistic simulations involving "real" cars... I hope that they will manage to implement a damage model into GT4 when it comes... The car manufacturers are apparently arguing about that matter though. :( http://gtsc.netfirms.com/gt4info.htm In my opinion, console racers are performing much better than the PC versions since the hardware is known and it is possible to push the last little bits out of it. No lockups... :) So I should stick to the arcade then... I was thinking about buying F355, but I bought Pro Evolution Soccer 2 instead... :\

No, because then we'd need an ambulance :) Larry "Joe M." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:_kb2a.28813$[email hidden]... > > Sounds better than bumper cam :) I HATE bumper-cam. My ass is too big > for > > the front bumper anyway. > > > > Might be time to run instead of drive. :0) > > -- > Joe M. > >

I wold hope so since they are pushing like 20% of the data around compared to the best of the PC Racing Simulations. Larry "Stefan Larsson" <"last"@(nospam)s2.chalmers.se> wrote in message news:b2ct3h$d1t$[email hidden]... > Ian P wrote: > > > In my opinion, console racers are performing much better than the > PC versions since the hardware is known and it is possible to > push the last little bits out of it. No lockups... :)

is WRC 2 out yet ? Gunnar Horrigmo wrote:

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> "Joe M." <[email hidden]> writes: > >>"amp green" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >>news:SrV1a.17165$[email hidden]... >> >>>Which console racer comes the closest to having sim quality physics ? >>> >> >>Ferrari F355 for the Dreamcast. > > > WRC II Extreme deserves a mention as well. > >