OT: Console Choice

Quick answers. No justification needed or wanted. Off the top of your head... If you were going to buy a console for Racing/Driving and Sports games, would you get a PS/2 or XBOX. Excessive thinking not allowed :) Larry

>"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote > If you were going to buy a console for Racing/Driving and Sports games, > would you get a PS/2 or XBOX. More about sports or more about racing ? 'Cause I would stick to my PC if I wanted good, quality racing games. Now for sports, it's a different thing. In the end, I can only say this : GET A DREAMCAST ;) -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://ymenard.cjb.net/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Xbox. "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3Eb2a.30300$[email hidden]...

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> >"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote > > If you were going to buy a console for Racing/Driving and Sports games, > > would you get a PS/2 or XBOX. > > > > More about sports or more about racing ? 'Cause I would stick to my PC if

I > wanted good, quality racing games. Now for sports, it's a differentthing.

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> > > > In the end, I can only say this : GET A DREAMCAST ;) > > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- http://ymenard.cjb.net/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > >

xbox has better graphics, but ps2 has wheel support and free (?) online playing. I think :) -- Slot Tweaks & Reviews www.slottweak.com "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Rub2a.28885$[email hidden]... > Quick answers. No justification needed or wanted. Off the top of your > head... > > If you were going to buy a console for Racing/Driving and Sports games, > would you get a PS/2 or XBOX. > > Excessive thinking not allowed :) > > Larry > > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 - Release Date: 1/10/2003

I just wrote a story abt. this for Motor Trend. My conclusion: the PS2 rules for 2 huge reasons. 1. Steering. Not only can you get FF wheels for the PS2, the wheels themselves are a whole lot better than the two sloppy examples I found for the Xbox. And the PS2 supports USB, so many wheels designed for the PC work just fine (or at least ok) for the PS2. 2. Titles. There are precious few Xbox-only titles (like Rallisport Challenge and Gotham Racing), and they didn't show me much. The PS2-only titles are much better, IMO. (Gran Tuurismo 3 was my Number One choice for the article: "Car Games for Car Guys".) There are a bunch of titles released for both consoles, but there seems to be a conspiracy to cripple the Xbox games...at least with the EA titles like Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit 2 (they were done by two different developers, and the Xbox version is demonstrably inferior). Other sports? Haven't a clue.... "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Rub2a.28885$[email hidden]...

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> Quick answers. No justification needed or wanted. Off the top of your > head... > > If you were going to buy a console for Racing/Driving and Sports games, > would you get a PS/2 or XBOX. > > Excessive thinking not allowed :) > > Larry > >

"Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:QCc2a.8882$[email hidden]... > Other sports? Haven't a clue.... > There are other sports???

For sports-- Xbox by far. By very very far. Playing online against other people in NFL, NHL, and NBA is just the most fun experience I've ever had in my gaming life. For racing, it's a close-call. Racing MotoGP online with xbox live is a damn fun experience. "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Rub2a.28885$[email hidden]...

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> Quick answers. No justification needed or wanted. Off the top of your > head... > > If you were going to buy a console for Racing/Driving and Sports games, > would you get a PS/2 or XBOX. > > Excessive thinking not allowed :) > > Larry > > >

On Tue, 11 Feb 2003 18:42:57 GMT, "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Quick answers. No justification needed or wanted. Off the top of your >head... > >If you were going to buy a console for Racing/Driving and Sports games, >would you get a PS/2 or XBOX. Xbox. My justification is that console games are about graphics, sound, and fun, and the xbox delivers all 3 in droves. Find somebody with one and watch them play Thunder 2003 and I guarantee you'll want one. Finally, Sega Sports and High Heat 2004. That's about all you need to know as far as sports gaming goes. No force feedback support for wheels sucks, but I've never personally cared since I don't even use it on my PC. Do you really like fiddling with memory sticks, anyway? Jason

On Tue, 11 Feb 2003 19:59:44 GMT, "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote: >I just wrote a story abt. this for Motor Trend. My conclusion: the PS2 >rules for 2 huge reasons. 1. Steering. Yeah, if you demand a force feedback wheel then just give up and get a PS2. Personally I just stick with a gamepad on my consoles and a wheel on my PC since that's where all the sims live. > 2. Titles. >There are precious few Xbox-only titles (like Rallisport Challenge and >Gotham Racing), and they didn't show me much. I dunno, I still see it as "PS2 has GT3 and GTA3/Vice City, Xbox has everything else". Rallisport Challenge, Sega GT 2002, Project Gotham, Nascar Thunder 2003 (best version is on xbox), F1 2001, Moto GP, Wreckless, Spy Hunter, Nascar Heat 2002, Crazy Taxi 3 (that's a joke, son) and then the whole slew of new games that are exclusive or better on xbox - Apex, Mercedes-Benz World Racing, Lotus Challenge, Colin McRae 3, Driver 3, Midtown Madness 3, Pro Race Driver, Midnight Club 2, etc. Sports? Xbox Live-enabled Sega 2k3 games all kick ass, High Heat makes its debut next week, and there's also Rocky which was a great game. The biggest non-multiplayer exclusive is of course Dead or Alive: Xtreme Beach Volleyball. As if the xbox controllers aren't hard enough to use with 2 hands. The rest of the games kick ass too. Jet Set Radio Future (the reason I bought one to begin with, really), Splinter Cell, Halo, Panzer Dragoon, MechAssault, Toe Jam and Earl 3, the Tony Hawk games, etc. Xbox lacks in quantity but more than makes up for it in quality imho. All of the good games coming out within the next few months are pretty much xbox-exclusive or better on xbox as well, based on a quick flip through EB's release dates. Do you *really* want to fiddle with memorysticks and shitty online support, Larry? =) Jason

PS2. Simply for Gran Turismo 3. Nothing on the XBOX can compete.

"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Rub2a.28885$[email hidden]...

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> Quick answers. No justification needed or wanted. Off the top of your > head... > > If you were going to buy a console for Racing/Driving and Sports games, > would you get a PS/2 or XBOX. > > Excessive thinking not allowed :)

�40 gets you a dreamcast, �10 gets you F335 Challenge, another �10 for Metropolis Street Racer, �10 for Le Mans 24 Hour, �10 for Sega GT, �10 for Sega Rally. �90 all up - with 5 cracking racing games well -it's the only console I've got anyway Doug

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> Xbox. My justification is that console games are about graphics, > sound, and fun, and the xbox delivers all 3 in droves. Find somebody > with one and watch them play Thunder 2003 and I guarantee you'll want > one. Finally, Sega Sports and High Heat 2004. That's about all you > need to know as far as sports gaming goes. No force feedback support > for wheels sucks, but I've never personally cared since I don't even > use it on my PC. > > Do you really like fiddling with memory sticks, anyway?

Yeah, I think the PS2 has had its day. It wasn't really a great day either. Going back from Xbox to PS2 games is a much greater leap than going from PS2 back to Dreamcast games. Of course playing games in full discrete 5.1 surround sound can't be overlooked. The hard disk makes a big difference to the gaming experience as well. The Sega sports games are brilliant simulations and make the EA Sports games look like kiddie stuff. As far as driving games on Xbox go, I haven't been that impressed, but I still rate Project Gotham Racing higher than Gran Turismo 3 - mainly due to GT3's boring handling and terrible AI.

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> �40 gets you a dreamcast, �10 gets you F335 Challenge, another �10 for > Metropolis Street Racer, �10 for Le Mans 24 Hour, �10 for Sega GT, �10 for > Sega Rally. > > �90 all up - with 5 cracking racing games > > well -it's the only console I've got anyway

You could do a lot worse. Add in Vanishing Point and you've probably got a better selection than you'll find on Xbox or PS2.

[email hidden] wrote: > PS2. Simply for Gran Turismo 3. Nothing on the XBOX can compete. I don't know about that. With the Xbox you can get on XBL and race MotoGP. On most nights you'll find plenty of people who will drive over you like you're not even there, just like GT3. I'd have to give my vote to the Xbox. My PS2 has been sitting in a drawer for 6 months.

I bought a PS2 4 days ago, cause of GT3 (which looks and plays better then Sega GT inmo), and WRC2, the best rally game on the console. RSC was a big letdown for me, since i thought it would be better then RallyMasters, but only the graphics were better, the car handling was worse imo. and i can still use my old LWFFGP wheel on the PS2, even without the broken pedals :) "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Rub2a.28885$[email hidden]...

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> Quick answers. No justification needed or wanted. Off the top of your > head... > > If you were going to buy a console for Racing/Driving and Sports games, > would you get a PS/2 or XBOX. > > Excessive thinking not allowed :) > > Larry > >

then again, you can get online with PS2 also, and you can always play SOCOM right now online, or wait for GT4 - online, that will be kickass :) "Internet User" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> [email hidden] wrote: > > PS2. Simply for Gran Turismo 3. Nothing on the XBOX can compete. > > I don't know about that. With the Xbox you can get on XBL and race > MotoGP. On most nights you'll find plenty of people who will drive over > you like you're not even there, just like GT3. > > I'd have to give my vote to the Xbox. My PS2 has been sitting in a > drawer for 6 months. >

Right. Console games are *designed* for game pads and under some circumstances pads feel more comfortable than wheels. It's just that I grew up as a car guy, not a computer geek, and I prefer a wheel, particularly on pavement, where precision of line counts. With a pad, you steer with a series of little straight-line feints, kinda like the opposite of anti-aliasing. "Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Tue, 11 Feb 2003 19:59:44 GMT, "Steve Smith" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >I just wrote a story abt. this for Motor Trend. My conclusion: the PS2 > >rules for 2 huge reasons. 1. Steering. > > Yeah, if you demand a force feedback wheel then just give up and get a > PS2. Personally I just stick with a gamepad on my consoles and a > wheel on my PC since that's where all the sims live. > > > 2. Titles. > >There are precious few Xbox-only titles (like Rallisport Challenge and > >Gotham Racing), and they didn't show me much. > > I dunno, I still see it as "PS2 has GT3 and GTA3/Vice City, Xbox has > everything else". Rallisport Challenge, Sega GT 2002, Project Gotham, > Nascar Thunder 2003 (best version is on xbox), F1 2001, Moto GP, > Wreckless, Spy Hunter, Nascar Heat 2002, Crazy Taxi 3 (that's a joke, > son) and then the whole slew of new games that are exclusive or better > on xbox - Apex, Mercedes-Benz World Racing, Lotus Challenge, Colin > McRae 3, Driver 3, Midtown Madness 3, Pro Race Driver, Midnight Club > 2, etc. > > Sports? Xbox Live-enabled Sega 2k3 games all kick ass, High Heat > makes its debut next week, and there's also Rocky which was a great > game. The biggest non-multiplayer exclusive is of course Dead or > Alive: Xtreme Beach Volleyball. As if the xbox controllers aren't > hard enough to use with 2 hands. > > The rest of the games kick ass too. Jet Set Radio Future (the reason > I bought one to begin with, really), Splinter Cell, Halo, Panzer > Dragoon, MechAssault, Toe Jam and Earl 3, the Tony Hawk games, etc. > Xbox lacks in quantity but more than makes up for it in quality imho. > All of the good games coming out within the next few months are pretty > much xbox-exclusive or better on xbox as well, based on a quick flip > through EB's release dates. > > Do you *really* want to fiddle with memorysticks and shitty online > support, Larry? =) > > Jason

Andreas Nystrom wrote: > then again, you can get online with PS2 also, and you can always play SOCOM > right now online, or wait for GT4 - online, that will be kickass :) > SOCOM is littered with people who cheat, and then you have a mix of 56K'ers and people on broadband. On Xbox Live you have Ghost Recon MotoGP, NBA2K, NFL2k, NHL2K, Unreal as well as the upcoming Project Gotham Racing 2. As far as online play, the PS2 can't hold a candle to Xbox.

"Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:%xq2a.13285$[email hidden]... > Right. Console games are *designed* for game pads and under some > circumstances pads feel more comfortable than wheels. It's just that Igrew > up as a car guy, not a computer geek, and I prefer a wheel, particularlyon > pavement, where precision of line counts. With a pad, you steer with a > series of little straight-line feints, kinda like the opposite of > anti-aliasing. > Ahem . . . you mean: aliasing? :0) -- Joe M.

"Internet User" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Andreas Nystrom wrote: > > then again, you can get online with PS2 also, and you can always playSOCOM

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> > right now online, or wait for GT4 - online, that will be kickass :) > > > > SOCOM is littered with people who cheat, and then you have a mix of > 56K'ers and people on broadband. On Xbox Live you have Ghost Recon > MotoGP, NBA2K, NFL2k, NHL2K, Unreal as well as the upcoming Project > Gotham Racing 2. As far as online play, the PS2 can't hold a candle to > Xbox. >

Agreed. PS2 online strategy is applying a band-aid to an amputation (the disgusting analogy for too little too late). SOCOM is a poor man's version of Ghost Recon (or any Clancy tactical shooter). Xbox was designed from the ground up to be online and it's a very impressive implementation of that strategy. The one thing that kills me is the lack of a proper FF wheel. Let's hope the wheel is in development and waiting for simultaneous release with a killer game that will sell the wheel as GT3 sold Logitech wheels. Perhaps PGR2 which will have XBL support and a greater emphasis on realism. -- Joe M.

Yes, only PS2 users cheat in online-games. Yes, thats so right, thats a problem ;) Well, anyway, SOCOM seems pretty realistic to me. 1 shot is enough to get killed if it takes where it should. "Joe M." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> "Internet User" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Andreas Nystrom wrote: > > > then again, you can get online with PS2 also, and you can always play > SOCOM > > > right now online, or wait for GT4 - online, that will be kickass :) > > > > > > > SOCOM is littered with people who cheat, and then you have a mix of > > 56K'ers and people on broadband. On Xbox Live you have Ghost Recon > > MotoGP, NBA2K, NFL2k, NHL2K, Unreal as well as the upcoming Project > > Gotham Racing 2. As far as online play, the PS2 can't hold a candle to > > Xbox. > > > > Agreed. PS2 online strategy is applying a band-aid to an amputation (the > disgusting analogy for too little too late). SOCOM is a poor man's

version > of Ghost Recon (or any Clancy tactical shooter). Xbox was designed fromthe > ground up to be online and it's a very impressive implementation of that > strategy. The one thing that kills me is the lack of a proper FF wheel. > > Let's hope the wheel is in development and waiting for simultaneousrelease > with a killer game that will sell the wheel as GT3 sold Logitech wheels. > Perhaps PGR2 which will have XBL support and a greater emphasis onrealism. > > -- > Joe M. > >

And an in-car cockpit view, dammit! Larry "Joe M." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> "Internet User" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Andreas Nystrom wrote: > > > then again, you can get online with PS2 also, and you can always play > SOCOM > > > right now online, or wait for GT4 - online, that will be kickass :) > > > > > > > SOCOM is littered with people who cheat, and then you have a mix of > > 56K'ers and people on broadband. On Xbox Live you have Ghost Recon > > MotoGP, NBA2K, NFL2k, NHL2K, Unreal as well as the upcoming Project > > Gotham Racing 2. As far as online play, the PS2 can't hold a candle to > > Xbox. > > > > Agreed. PS2 online strategy is applying a band-aid to an amputation (the > disgusting analogy for too little too late). SOCOM is a poor man's

version > of Ghost Recon (or any Clancy tactical shooter). Xbox was designed fromthe > ground up to be online and it's a very impressive implementation of that > strategy. The one thing that kills me is the lack of a proper FF wheel. > > Let's hope the wheel is in development and waiting for simultaneousrelease > with a killer game that will sell the wheel as GT3 sold Logitech wheels. > Perhaps PGR2 which will have XBL support and a greater emphasis onrealism. > > -- > Joe M. > >

My goodness, someone FINALLY followed my instructions :) Larry "shpankey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9Jb2a.20620$[email hidden]... > Xbox. > > "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:3Eb2a.30300$[email hidden]... > > >"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote > > > If you were going to buy a console for Racing/Driving and Sportsgames, > > > would you get a PS/2 or XBOX. > > > > > > > > More about sports or more about racing ? 'Cause I would stick to my PCif

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> I > > wanted good, quality racing games. Now for sports, it's a different > thing. > > > > > > > > In the end, I can only say this : GET A DREAMCAST ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > -- http://ymenard.cjb.net/ > > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez > > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > > > > >

On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 11:50:19 GMT, "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Right. Console games are *designed* for game pads and under some >circumstances pads feel more comfortable than wheels. It's just that I grew >up as a car guy, not a computer geek, and I prefer a wheel, particularly on >pavement, where precision of line counts. With a pad, you steer with a >series of little straight-line feints, kinda like the opposite of >anti-aliasing. I dunno, I have no problems being smooth with the analog stick on the xbox controllers. =) But yeah, anyone who is a real car guy is going to want games that are simulations and can be driven with a decent quality wheel. In that regard the PS2 is marginally better because of the wheel support, but I've personally never found the games to be of the quality that I could justify buying one. If a game can be easily controlled with a gamepad, I usually don't feel comfortable using a wheel with it and vice versa. If something with the quality of GPL or N2003 came out for a console then I could probably justify the system and a wheel for it. Jason

On Tue, 11 Feb 2003 18:42:57 GMT, "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote: >If you were going to buy a console for Racing/Driving and Sports games, >would you get a PS/2 or XBOX. SPORTS: XBox, because I love hockey. There's only one good hockey sim (Sega NHL 2K3), but the XBox version has better frame rate AND multiplayer over the net. DRIVING: PS2, because it has GT3 and supports force-feedback wheels.

Andreas Nystrom wrote: > Yes, only PS2 users cheat in online-games. Yes, thats so right, thats a > problem ;) > Not only PS2 users cheat, but only the PS2 has software the encourages cheating, ala the Gameshark. And Sony has done little to curb cheating which is why there are dozens of people running around in GOD mode killing everything that moves.

Ya gotta ask yerself: if the Xbox is where it's at, how come it lost MS one BILLION dollars last near (and is projected to lose $2bn this year). OTOH, the PS2's contribution to Sony's bottom line is 60% (and considering how deep Sony is into TVs, cell phones, Hollywood studios, the music biz, etc., that's nothing short of astonishing). Fearless prediction: MS is taking the Xbox upscale - aiming to make the Xbox2 a set-top box that will be a living-room replacement for the PC, "converging" games, TV, music, and Internet access (remember WebTV?), where they'll be able to hide the $$$-hemorraghing games division's losses. If you hate PCs, this is a Good Thing. As a car guy, tho, I'm looking forward to the PS3/GT4 combination (which should also put the kibosh on rampant cheating). --Robbie Bach "Joe M." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> "Internet User" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Andreas Nystrom wrote: > > > then again, you can get online with PS2 also, and you can always play > SOCOM > > > right now online, or wait for GT4 - online, that will be kickass :) > > > > > > > SOCOM is littered with people who cheat, and then you have a mix of > > 56K'ers and people on broadband. On Xbox Live you have Ghost Recon > > MotoGP, NBA2K, NFL2k, NHL2K, Unreal as well as the upcoming Project > > Gotham Racing 2. As far as online play, the PS2 can't hold a candle to > > Xbox. > > > > Agreed. PS2 online strategy is applying a band-aid to an amputation (the > disgusting analogy for too little too late). SOCOM is a poor man's

version > of Ghost Recon (or any Clancy tactical shooter). Xbox was designed fromthe > ground up to be online and it's a very impressive implementation of that > strategy. The one thing that kills me is the lack of a proper FF wheel. > > Let's hope the wheel is in development and waiting for simultaneousrelease > with a killer game that will sell the wheel as GT3 sold Logitech wheels. > Perhaps PGR2 which will have XBL support and a greater emphasis onrealism. > > -- > Joe M. > >

> Ya gotta ask yerself: if the Xbox is where it's at, how come it lost MSone > BILLION dollars last near (and is projected to lose $2bn this year).OTOH, > the PS2's contribution to Sony's bottom line is 60% (and considering how > deep Sony is into TVs, cell phones, Hollywood studios, the music biz,etc., > that's nothing short of astonishing). That's some strange logic. By that logic, nobody should ever support new, superior products just because there's already an established brand name.

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> Fearless prediction: MS is taking the > Xbox upscale - aiming to make the Xbox2 a set-top box that will be a > living-room replacement for the PC, "converging" games, TV, music, and > Internet access (remember WebTV?), where they'll be able to hide the > $$$-hemorraghing games division's losses. If you hate PCs, this is a Good > Thing. As a car guy, tho, I'm looking forward to the PS3/GT4 combination > (which should also put the kibosh on rampant cheating).

I would have thought a true car guy would prefer realistic or at least challenging handling - not mainstream, overhyped dribble like the Gran Turismo series. Sounds to me like you made the decision to go with Sony and are desperately trying to convince yourself that you made the right decision.

Steve (or Robbie - who's Robbie?) Your "prediction" is a little late, MS has already talked about this convergence long ago as part of their overall strategy (and various publications as well). I heard the convergence speech about just such a device by a Wall Street guru 7 years ago. So who do you like in the last Super Bowl? :0) MS knows this is a marathon not a sprint. If you're MS, you lose money now to build market share over the years and win when the stakes are much higher. I'd rather own 40% of a $100B market than 70% of a $30B market (just throwing out numbers for illustration). -- Joe M. "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:wEM2a.55174$[email hidden]... > Ya gotta ask yerself: if the Xbox is where it's at, how come it lost MS one > BILLION dollars last near (and is projected to lose $2bn this year). OTOH, > the PS2's contribution to Sony's bottom line is 60% (and considering how > deep Sony is into TVs, cell phones, Hollywood studios, the music biz, etc., > that's nothing short of astonishing). Fearless prediction: MS is taking the > Xbox upscale - aiming to make the Xbox2 a set-top box that will be a > living-room replacement for the PC, "converging" games, TV, music, and > Internet access (remember WebTV?), where they'll be able to hide the > $$$-hemorraghing games division's losses. If you hate PCs, this is a Good > Thing. As a car guy, tho, I'm looking forward to the PS3/GT4 combination > (which should also put the kibosh on rampant cheating). > > --Robbie Bach > > "Joe M." <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > "Internet User" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > Andreas Nystrom wrote: > > > > then again, you can get online with PS2 also, and you can always play > > SOCOM > > > > right now online, or wait for GT4 - online, that will be kickass :) > > > > > > > > > > SOCOM is littered with people who cheat, and then you have a mix of > > > 56K'ers and people on broadband. On Xbox Live you have Ghost Recon > > > MotoGP, NBA2K, NFL2k, NHL2K, Unreal as well as the upcoming Project > > > Gotham Racing 2. As far as online play, the PS2 can't hold a candle to > > > Xbox. > > > > > > > Agreed. PS2 online strategy is applying a band-aid to an amputation (the > > disgusting analogy for too little too late). SOCOM is a poor man's > version > > of Ghost Recon (or any Clancy tactical shooter). Xbox was designed from > the > > ground up to be online and it's a very impressive implementation of that > > strategy. The one thing that kills me is the lack of a proper FF wheel. > > > > Let's hope the wheel is in development and waiting for simultaneous > release > > with a killer game that will sell the wheel as GT3 sold Logitech wheels. > > Perhaps PGR2 which will have XBL support and a greater emphasis on > realism. > > > > -- > > Joe M. > > > > > >

On Thu, 13 Feb 2003 12:59:08 GMT, "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Ya gotta ask yerself: if the Xbox is where it's at, how come it lost MS one >BILLION dollars last near If GPL is where it's at, how come it didn't sell better? Jason

I think GT3 with simulation tires and all steeringhelps, asm, tcs turned off feels pretty good actually. Sure it has it flaws, but still its more of a sim, then arcade. "Redmist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:b2g7ev$1cbf5j$[email hidden]...

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> > Ya gotta ask yerself: if the Xbox is where it's at, how come it lost MS > one > > BILLION dollars last near (and is projected to lose $2bn this year). > OTOH, > > the PS2's contribution to Sony's bottom line is 60% (and considering how > > deep Sony is into TVs, cell phones, Hollywood studios, the music biz, > etc., > > that's nothing short of astonishing). > > That's some strange logic. By that logic, nobody should ever support new, > superior products just because there's already an established brand name. > > > Fearless prediction: MS is taking the > > Xbox upscale - aiming to make the Xbox2 a set-top box that will be a > > living-room replacement for the PC, "converging" games, TV, music, and > > Internet access (remember WebTV?), where they'll be able to hide the > > $$$-hemorraghing games division's losses. If you hate PCs, this is a

Good > > Thing. As a car guy, tho, I'm looking forward to the PS3/GT4combination

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> > (which should also put the kibosh on rampant cheating). > > I would have thought a true car guy would prefer realistic or at least > challenging handling - not mainstream, overhyped dribble like the Gran > Turismo series. > > Sounds to me like you made the decision to go with Sony and are

desperately > trying to convince yourself that you made the right decision. > > >

Great strategy...if it was working. But it's not. MS is actually losing market share. WebTV was supposed to be the convergence vehicle. Seamus Blackley (Bach's predecessor as the head of the games division - don't you people read the papers?) swore up and down that the Xbox was--and would always be--for gamers, not Mom 'n' Pop couch potatos propped up in the living room in front of the TV. He said this because any hint of convergence would be viewed with suspicion by gamers, who were--and are--convinced that the Xbox is a stalking horse for MS's idea of an Internet "appliance" (and guess what - it is). Which explains why they're staying away from the Xbox in droves. (The other reason, of course, is that the PS2 has better games.) I'd have to pick the Tampa Bay Raiders. "Joe M." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Steve (or Robbie - who's Robbie?) > > Your "prediction" is a little late, MS has already talked about this > convergence long ago as part of their overall strategy (and various > publications as well). I heard the convergence speech about just such a > device by a Wall Street guru 7 years ago. So who do you like in the last > Super Bowl? :0) > > MS knows this is a marathon not a sprint. If you're MS, you lose money

now

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> to build market share over the years and win when the stakes are much > higher. I'd rather own 40% of a $100B market than 70% of a $30B market > (just throwing out numbers for illustration). > > -- > Joe M. > > > "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:wEM2a.55174$[email hidden]... > > Ya gotta ask yerself: if the Xbox is where it's at, how come it lost MS > one > > BILLION dollars last near (and is projected to lose $2bn this year). > OTOH, > > the PS2's contribution to Sony's bottom line is 60% (and considering how > > deep Sony is into TVs, cell phones, Hollywood studios, the music biz, > etc., > > that's nothing short of astonishing). Fearless prediction: MS is taking > the > > Xbox upscale - aiming to make the Xbox2 a set-top box that will be a > > living-room replacement for the PC, "converging" games, TV, music, and > > Internet access (remember WebTV?), where they'll be able to hide the > > $$$-hemorraghing games division's losses. If you hate PCs, this is a

Good > > Thing. As a car guy, tho, I'm looking forward to the PS3/GT4combination

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> > (which should also put the kibosh on rampant cheating). > > > > --Robbie Bach > > > > "Joe M." <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > "Internet User" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > Andreas Nystrom wrote: > > > > > then again, you can get online with PS2 also, and you can always > play > > > SOCOM > > > > > right now online, or wait for GT4 - online, that will be kickass

:)

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> > > > > > > > > > > > > SOCOM is littered with people who cheat, and then you have a mix of > > > > 56K'ers and people on broadband. On Xbox Live you have Ghost Recon > > > > MotoGP, NBA2K, NFL2k, NHL2K, Unreal as well as the upcoming Project > > > > Gotham Racing 2. As far as online play, the PS2 can't hold a candle > to > > > > Xbox. > > > > > > > > > > Agreed. PS2 online strategy is applying a band-aid to an amputation > (the > > > disgusting analogy for too little too late). SOCOM is a poor man's > > version > > > of Ghost Recon (or any Clancy tactical shooter). Xbox was designed

from > > the > > > ground up to be online and it's a very impressive implementation ofthat > > > strategy. The one thing that kills me is the lack of a proper FFwheel. > > > > > > Let's hope the wheel is in development and waiting for simultaneous > > release > > > with a killer game that will sell the wheel as GT3 sold Logitechwheels.

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> > > Perhaps PGR2 which will have XBL support and a greater emphasis on > > realism. > > > > > > -- > > > Joe M. > > > > > > > > > > > >

It did sell better. It got off to a slow start, thanks to Sierra's vast ineptitude as marketeers (the ads touted 1967...the year that several F1 drivers got killed...in geeky publications unseen by the real car guys who shoulda been the target audience). Initial sales were disappointing. But it's still selling (it's the # 1 best-selling game on a number of remaindered s/w sites) after an unprecedented four years on the market (not even the venerated Falcon 3.0 lasted that long) and the total number is now said to be somewhere north of 200K. This makes it one of the best-selling sims of any kind, ever, other than NASCAR games. "Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Thu, 13 Feb 2003 12:59:08 GMT, "Steve Smith" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Ya gotta ask yerself: if the Xbox is where it's at, how come it lost MSone > >BILLION dollars last near > > If GPL is where it's at, how come it didn't sell better? > > Jason

On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:10:20 GMT, "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>It did sell better. It got off to a slow start, thanks to Sierra's vast >ineptitude as marketeers (the ads touted 1967...the year that several F1 >drivers got killed...in geeky publications unseen by the real car guys who >shoulda been the target audience). Initial sales were disappointing. But >it's still selling (it's the # 1 best-selling game on a number of >remaindered s/w sites) after an unprecedented four years on the market (not >even the venerated Falcon 3.0 lasted that long) and the total number is now >said to be somewhere north of 200K. This makes it one of the best-selling >sims of any kind, ever, other than NASCAR games.

You're right, and I would also suspect that ultimately the Xbox will achieve a similar status (if not among car guys). My reasoning: 1. Most of anticipated games are just starting to trickle out for the Xbox now. Honestly, considering how badly Xbox Live is smashing the competition right now and that new consoles aren't due until Christmas 2005, I don't see how the Xbox won't ultimately be an incredible success. 2. No new consoles until Christmas 2005 (at the earliest). 3. Xbox Live. If anything inspires longevity and dedication among gamers, it's solid multiplayer. Sony is getting annihilated in this area. Jason

Wrong-o! MS predicted they'd have 200,000 customers for Xbox Live by now. They have 75,000. At my son's school, 37.5% isn't a passing grade. (To be fair, Sony's PS2 online experience is getting whacked with rampant cheating - something NoBaloney'd better fix...or else.) Consoles' product cycle (hitherto 5 years) is under intense pressure from The Console Wars. MS has pushed up the intro of the Xbox Lite (er, Next) and prolly won't wait for Xmas '05 for the Xbox2. Likewise, Sony isn't going to wait 'til then to roll out the PS3. This is a Deathmatch! "Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:10:20 GMT, "Steve Smith" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >It did sell better. It got off to a slow start, thanks to Sierra's vast > >ineptitude as marketeers (the ads touted 1967...the year that several F1 > >drivers got killed...in geeky publications unseen by the real car guyswho > >shoulda been the target audience). Initial sales were disappointing.But > >it's still selling (it's the # 1 best-selling game on a number of > >remaindered s/w sites) after an unprecedented four years on the market(not > >even the venerated Falcon 3.0 lasted that long) and the total number isnow > >said to be somewhere north of 200K. This makes it one of thebest-selling

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> >sims of any kind, ever, other than NASCAR games. > > You're right, and I would also suspect that ultimately the Xbox will > achieve a similar status (if not among car guys). My reasoning: > > 1. Most of anticipated games are just starting to trickle out for the > Xbox now. Honestly, considering how badly Xbox Live is smashing > the competition right now and that new consoles aren't due until > Christmas 2005, I don't see how the Xbox won't ultimately be an > incredible success. > > 2. No new consoles until Christmas 2005 (at the earliest). > > 3. Xbox Live. If anything inspires longevity and dedication among > gamers, it's solid multiplayer. Sony is getting annihilated in this > area. > > Jason

XBL has over 250,000 customers. You've got bad info there Steve. -- Joe M. "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:YXe3a.68950$[email hidden]... > Wrong-o! MS predicted they'd have 200,000 customers for Xbox Live by now. > They have 75,000. At my son's school, 37.5% isn't a passing grade. > > (To be fair, Sony's PS2 online experience is getting whacked with rampant > cheating - something NoBaloney'd better fix...or else.) > > Consoles' product cycle (hitherto 5 years) is under intense pressure from > The Console Wars. MS has pushed up the intro of the Xbox Lite (er, Next) > and prolly won't wait for Xmas '05 for the Xbox2. Likewise, Sony isn't > going to wait 'til then to roll out the PS3. > > This is a Deathmatch! > > "Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:10:20 GMT, "Steve Smith" > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > >It did sell better. It got off to a slow start, thanks to Sierra's vast > > >ineptitude as marketeers (the ads touted 1967...the year that several F1 > > >drivers got killed...in geeky publications unseen by the real car guys > who > > >shoulda been the target audience). Initial sales were disappointing. > But > > >it's still selling (it's the # 1 best-selling game on a number of > > >remaindered s/w sites) after an unprecedented four years on the market > (not > > >even the venerated Falcon 3.0 lasted that long) and the total number is > now > > >said to be somewhere north of 200K. This makes it one of the > best-selling > > >sims of any kind, ever, other than NASCAR games. > > > > You're right, and I would also suspect that ultimately the Xbox will > > achieve a similar status (if not among car guys). My reasoning: > > > > 1. Most of anticipated games are just starting to trickle out for the > > Xbox now. Honestly, considering how badly Xbox Live is smashing > > the competition right now and that new consoles aren't due until > > Christmas 2005, I don't see how the Xbox won't ultimately be an > > incredible success. > > > > 2. No new consoles until Christmas 2005 (at the earliest). > > > > 3. Xbox Live. If anything inspires longevity and dedication among > > gamers, it's solid multiplayer. Sony is getting annihilated in this > > area. > > > > Jason > >

I read in the WSJ that they'd sold 210,000 online kits...but that only 72,000 people have signed up for the service yet. "Joe M." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> XBL has over 250,000 customers. You've got bad info there Steve. > > -- > Joe M. > > > "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:YXe3a.68950$[email hidden]... > > Wrong-o! MS predicted they'd have 200,000 customers for Xbox Live by

now. > > They have 75,000. At my son's school, 37.5% isn't a passing grade. > > > > (To be fair, Sony's PS2 online experience is getting whacked withrampant > > cheating - something NoBaloney'd better fix...or else.) > > > > Consoles' product cycle (hitherto 5 years) is under intense pressurefrom > > The Console Wars. MS has pushed up the intro of the Xbox Lite (er,Next)

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> > and prolly won't wait for Xmas '05 for the Xbox2. Likewise, Sony isn't > > going to wait 'til then to roll out the PS3. > > > > This is a Deathmatch! > > > > "Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:10:20 GMT, "Steve Smith" > > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > > > >It did sell better. It got off to a slow start, thanks to Sierra's > vast > > > >ineptitude as marketeers (the ads touted 1967...the year that several > F1 > > > >drivers got killed...in geeky publications unseen by the real car

guys > > who > > > >shoulda been the target audience). Initial sales were disappointing. > > But > > > >it's still selling (it's the # 1 best-selling game on a number of > > > >remaindered s/w sites) after an unprecedented four years on themarket > > (not > > > >even the venerated Falcon 3.0 lasted that long) and the total numberis

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> > now > > > >said to be somewhere north of 200K. This makes it one of the > > best-selling > > > >sims of any kind, ever, other than NASCAR games. > > > > > > You're right, and I would also suspect that ultimately the Xbox will > > > achieve a similar status (if not among car guys). My reasoning: > > > > > > 1. Most of anticipated games are just starting to trickle out for the > > > Xbox now. Honestly, considering how badly Xbox Live is smashing > > > the competition right now and that new consoles aren't due until > > > Christmas 2005, I don't see how the Xbox won't ultimately be an > > > incredible success. > > > > > > 2. No new consoles until Christmas 2005 (at the earliest). > > > > > > 3. Xbox Live. If anything inspires longevity and dedication among > > > gamers, it's solid multiplayer. Sony is getting annihilated in this > > > area. > > > > > > Jason > > > > > >

On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 23:27:52 GMT, "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Wrong-o! MS predicted they'd have 200,000 customers for Xbox Live by now. >They have 75,000. At my son's school, 37.5% isn't a passing grade. Weird. I can't argue your info, but Xbox Magazine claims 250,000 subscribers were signed up before the most recent issue was put to press. Jason

Gee, you don't suppose a magazine licensed to use the name "Xbox" would have a vested interest, do ya? (In the pub biz, we called 'em "captive" mags.) In any case, monthlies are put to bed 90 days in advance; dailies the night before. "Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 23:27:52 GMT, "Steve Smith" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Wrong-o! MS predicted they'd have 200,000 customers for Xbox Live bynow.

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> >They have 75,000. At my son's school, 37.5% isn't a passing grade. > > Weird. I can't argue your info, but Xbox Magazine claims 250,000 > subscribers were signed up before the most recent issue was put to > press. > > Jason >

On Sat, 15 Feb 2003 16:09:00 GMT, "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Gee, you don't suppose a magazine licensed to use the name "Xbox" would have >a vested interest, do ya? (In the pub biz, we called 'em "captive" mags.) Yeah, hence my not arguing your figures. =) Jason

worst part is that XBOX live will soon get pay-to-play "Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:10:20 GMT, "Steve Smith" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >It did sell better. It got off to a slow start, thanks to Sierra's vast > >ineptitude as marketeers (the ads touted 1967...the year that several F1 > >drivers got killed...in geeky publications unseen by the real car guyswho > >shoulda been the target audience). Initial sales were disappointing.But > >it's still selling (it's the # 1 best-selling game on a number of > >remaindered s/w sites) after an unprecedented four years on the market(not > >even the venerated Falcon 3.0 lasted that long) and the total number isnow > >said to be somewhere north of 200K. This makes it one of thebest-selling

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> >sims of any kind, ever, other than NASCAR games. > > You're right, and I would also suspect that ultimately the Xbox will > achieve a similar status (if not among car guys). My reasoning: > > 1. Most of anticipated games are just starting to trickle out for the > Xbox now. Honestly, considering how badly Xbox Live is smashing > the competition right now and that new consoles aren't due until > Christmas 2005, I don't see how the Xbox won't ultimately be an > incredible success. > > 2. No new consoles until Christmas 2005 (at the earliest). > > 3. Xbox Live. If anything inspires longevity and dedication among > gamers, it's solid multiplayer. Sony is getting annihilated in this > area. > > Jason

http://forums.xbox.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1454742 "Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 23:27:52 GMT, "Steve Smith" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Wrong-o! MS predicted they'd have 200,000 customers for Xbox Live bynow.

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> >They have 75,000. At my son's school, 37.5% isn't a passing grade. > > Weird. I can't argue your info, but Xbox Magazine claims 250,000 > subscribers were signed up before the most recent issue was put to > press. > > Jason >

Andreas Nystrom wrote: > worst part is that XBOX live will soon get pay-to-play > Microsoft has never denied this. They've always said that there will be certain games that will require a subscription fee. Games that require dedicated servers to support a persistent state world, etc... There's nothing wrong with Live and it's business model. It's been a tremendous success and that should continue.

Holy she-iz-it, Andreas! It's worse than I thought! "Andreas Nystrom" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:XXL3a.11010$[email hidden]...

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> http://forums.xbox.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1454742 > > > "Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 23:27:52 GMT, "Steve Smith" > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > >Wrong-o! MS predicted they'd have 200,000 customers for Xbox Live by > now. > > >They have 75,000. At my son's school, 37.5% isn't a passing grade. > > > > Weird. I can't argue your info, but Xbox Magazine claims 250,000 > > subscribers were signed up before the most recent issue was put to > > press. > > > > Jason > > > >

Who didn't see that coming? I didn't mind paying for NROS. The quality of console games isn't high enough for me to consider paying though. Larry "Andreas Nystrom" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9WL3a.11009$[email hidden]... > worst part is that XBOX live will soon get pay-to-play

Where do I sign up. NOT! Larry "Andreas Nystrom" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:XXL3a.11010$[email hidden]...

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> http://forums.xbox.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1454742 > > > "Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 23:27:52 GMT, "Steve Smith" > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > >Wrong-o! MS predicted they'd have 200,000 customers for Xbox Live by > now. > > >They have 75,000. At my son's school, 37.5% isn't a passing grade. > > > > Weird. I can't argue your info, but Xbox Magazine claims 250,000 > > subscribers were signed up before the most recent issue was put to > > press. > > > > Jason > > > >

Doesn't sound like to me. The natives are obviously restless. And forgive me, but paying and EXTRA fee to use the Ethernet Adapter? Larry "Internet User" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Andreas Nystrom wrote: > > worst part is that XBOX live will soon get pay-to-play > > > > Microsoft has never denied this. They've always said that there will be > certain games that will require a subscription fee. Games that require > dedicated servers to support a persistent state world, etc... There's > nothing wrong with Live and it's business model. It's been a tremendous > success and that should continue. >