NASCAR 2003 is the very last sim released. After that Papyrus will go with
the consoles. We will never get a CART sim for PC. The console market is to
be blamed. The sims have no future.
(amen)
Are consoles killing PC racing sims?
A poster claimed NR2003 would be the last PC sim and that Papyrus would move to consoles. Most disagreed, saying PC hardware would soon overtake consoles and gaming drives high-end PC sales, though some worried. Ian Riches argued that powerful PCs had raised expectations so high that sims became harder to make.
industry/businessrumour/speculation
Automated summary.
The PC manufacturers had better hope you are wrong (and I think you are).
High-end PC sales are DRIVEN by hardcore gaming. If hardcore gaming on the
PC goes away (it won't), high-end high-margin PC sales will plummet, the
polar ice caps will melt, and the sun will implode taking all known life
with it.
Larry
"kop" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:Cga3a.182064$[email hidden]...
> NASCAR 2003 is the very last sim released. After that Papyrus will go with
> the consoles. We will never get a CART sim for PC. The console market isto
> be blamed. The sims have no future.
>
> (amen)
>
>
I hope you are right Larry, but from stuff I've read, kop may be onto
something.
"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:n9b3a.7640$[email hidden]...
> The PC manufacturers had better hope you are wrong (and I think you are).
>
> High-end PC sales are DRIVEN by hardcore gaming. If hardcore gaming onthe
with
Quoted text (9 lines)
> PC goes away (it won't), high-end high-margin PC sales will plummet, the > polar ice caps will melt, and the sun will implode taking all known life > with it. > > Larry > > "kop" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:Cga3a.182064$[email hidden]... > > NASCAR 2003 is the very last sim released. After that Papyrus will goQuoted text (9 lines)
> > the consoles. We will never get a CART sim for PC. The console market is > to > > be blamed. The sims have no future. > > > > (amen) > > > > > >
"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:n9b3a.7640$[email hidden]...
> The PC manufacturers had better hope you are wrong (and I think you are).
>
> High-end PC sales are DRIVEN by hardcore gaming. If hardcore gaming onthe
> PC goes away (it won't), high-end high-margin PC sales will plummet, the
> polar ice caps will melt, and the sun will implode taking all known life
> with it.
Well, that would coincide with "Global worming" doomsayers... <VBG> so how
do you kno whe is not right?
I for one am spoiled, as I get to use pretty fast PC's all day long, so
when I watch or play with an Xbox display, not only do the games and
controls suck, I sit there and wonder, Geesus, how long does it take to load
this crap?
Even though that was a really long sentence, I wonder how many poeple will
buy into it , just like they buy into Bose stereo-Clock radios for 400
bucks? <G> and hell I been fighting a sound card gremlin for what, hmmm
well it has been like 1 whole year, and would almost love to not have to
"MESS" with my pc just as it dies as Im trying to get to my league race....
I tell you Racing sims wont go on xboxes/Playstations for a while Im sure,
but BF1942, many other types of games seem just fine on there? and all the
rest? well I dont know they just might...
> Larry
>
> "kop" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> news:Cga3a.182064$[email hidden]...
> > NASCAR 2003 is the very last sim released. After that Papyrus will gowith
Quoted text (9 lines)
> > the consoles. We will never get a CART sim for PC. The console market is > to > > be blamed. The sims have no future. > > > > (amen) > > > > > >wait 1 year and we'll talk about that, consoles have a lifespan of about 5
years but the hardware DOES NOT EVOLVE in these 5 years, do you remember the
best PC from 1998, pre GPL and the machines we have now, next year the PC
will overpower the consoles with 4G CPU, geforce 5 or 6 and all the rest,
then the games will become NICER on PC's and 3 years after that the consoles
will come out with PS3 and XBOX2 or whatever and the cycle will start
again....
--
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FLSH DLX - SPDERMAN - CHRLIE'S NGELS - TX SCTOR - MRS GOW - RBO WARS
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SPRES - SPCE INVDERS - FTRE SPA - LADY LCK - PRAGON
WILLIAMS : BLCKOUT - CNTACT - ADDMS FAMLY
"kop" <[email hidden]> a �crit dans le message de news:
Cga3a.182064$[email hidden]...
> NASCAR 2003 is the very last sim released. After that Papyrus will go with
> the consoles. We will never get a CART sim for PC. The console market is
to
> be blamed. The sims have no future.
>
> (amen)
>
>
In article <Cga3a.182064$[email hidden]>, "kop" <[email hidden]> writes:
>NASCAR 2003 is the very last sim released. After that Papyrus will go with
>the consoles. We will never get a CART sim for PC. The console market is to
>be blamed. The sims have no future.
Then I'll either keep playing the sims now, or I won't be playing anything. I
have NO desire to get a GameCube, XBOX, or whatever...
I think I'll live...
Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPLRank:-0.381
MonsterRank: +339.873
N2002 Rank:+17.59
Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
"kop" <[email hidden]> kirjoitti viestiss�
news:Cga3a.182064$[email hidden]...
> NASCAR 2003 is the very last sim released. After that Papyrus will go with
> the consoles. We will never get a CART sim for PC. The console market isto
> be blamed. The sims have no future.
>
> (amen)
Who needs CART sim? CART is next to death. What we need is Grand Prix
Legends 1982/1983
--
.mikko
/* reality is an illusion, that occurs
due to the lack of alcohol */
"Mikko �mm�l�" wrote...
> <snip>
> Who needs CART sim?
I'd like one... modelling mid to late nineties, preferably.
> CART is next to death.
Well, it ain't dead yet. And it's still "racing", a term which doesn't apply
to several series which still get serious media attention over here.
> What we need is Grand Prix Legends 1982/1983
That would be neat too, but I'd prefer the CART sim.
Jan.
=---
Jan Verschueren wrote:
That's spelled AussieV8's actually
Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy
"goyl at nettx dot no"
"The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/
"A man is only as old as the woman he feels"
--Groucho Marx--
Quoted text (15 lines)
> > "Mikko �mm�l�" wrote... > > <snip> > > Who needs CART sim? > > I'd like one... modelling mid to late nineties, preferably. > > > CART is next to death. > > Well, it ain't dead yet. And it's still "racing", a term which doesn't apply > to several series which still get serious media attention over here. > > > What we need is Grand Prix Legends 1982/1983 > > That would be neat too, but I'd prefer the CART sim. I gotta agree with Eldred. It's the gaming PC for me, or just fishing.
I've watched my son play games on his Playstation 2 and I'm not impressed
with the graphics.
Joel Willstein
--
"If you can leave black marks on a straight from the time you exit a corner
till the time you brake for the next turn
, then you have enough horsepower."
Mark Donohue
"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> In article <Cga3a.182064$[email hidden]>, "kop" <[email hidden]>
writes:
>
> >NASCAR 2003 is the very last sim released. After that Papyrus will go
with
> >the consoles. We will never get a CART sim for PC. The console market is
to
> >be blamed. The sims have no future.
>
> Then I'll either keep playing the sims now, or I won't be playing
anything. I
> have NO desire to get a GameCube, XBOX, or whatever...
> I think I'll live...
>
> Eldred
> --
> Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
> GPLRank:-0.381
> MonsterRank: +339.873
> N2002 Rank:+17.59
>
> Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats
you
> with experience...
> Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
"Goy Larsen" wrote...
> > <snip>
> That's spelled AussieV8's actually
;-)
Jan.
=---
I think you're partly right...though i'm not sure papy will go console
only..or is that a confirmed thing?
Anyways..lets say N2003 is the last thing from papy for the PC, now i
heard good things about N2003 but i didn't buy it, although i got all
the previous papy sims i refuse to cash out another 40$ for what's
basically the same thing...all be it improved.
I think maybe for PCs the future might be birghter actually, with
seriously good freeware stuff like netkar, if the guy(s) doing that
keep it open so people can develope add ons like tracks, cars etc..etc
and at the same time keep it 'online cheating free' i really couldn't
care less about papy dumping PC developement
And then there's 'hardcore' payware like what the west bros are doing,
though as i have expressed before i have doubts about it ever seeing
the light of day.
All in all, i'm not worried about consoles taking over...
Cheers,
Willem.
On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 18:08:34 GMT, "kop" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>NASCAR 2003 is the very last sim released. After that Papyrus will go with
>the consoles. We will never get a CART sim for PC. The console market is to
>be blamed. The sims have no future.
>
>(amen)
>
Txl wrote:
However... The coders have to build adaptive game engines due to varying
hardware. I.e. it should run on a large span of hardware, from TNT2 to
GeForce4, Radeon or whatever... It is hard to optimize the performance
then!
I still haven't seen a sim that is LOOKING nicer than Gran Turismo 3 on
the PC. But on the other hand I have never driven anything better than
GPL... Combine the two of them and, tadaaa!
/S
Quoted text (8 lines)
> > wait 1 year and we'll talk about that, consoles have a lifespan of about 5 > years but the hardware DOES NOT EVOLVE in these 5 years, do you remember the > best PC from 1998, pre GPL and the machines we have now, next year the PC > will overpower the consoles with 4G CPU, geforce 5 or 6 and all the rest, > then the games will become NICER on PC's and 3 years after that the consoles > will come out with PS3 and XBOX2 or whatever and the cycle will start > again....Quoted text (7 lines)
> wait 1 year and we'll talk about that, consoles have a lifespan of about 5 > years but the hardware DOES NOT EVOLVE in these 5 years, do you remember the > best PC from 1998, pre GPL and the machines we have now, next year the PC > will overpower the consoles with 4G CPU, geforce 5 or 6 and all the rest, > then the games will become NICER on PC's and 3 years after that the consoles > will come out with PS3 and XBOX2 or whatever and the cycle will start > again....willem wrote:
I think that the advantage of the PC is the expansion possibilites.
Say, in ten years there might be a "simulator kit" where you put
your chair onto hydraulics at home... You "only" need to patch
the software and install the drivers and, tadaaa... Hard to do
the same thing on a console...
Also, I am optimistic about new companies entering the sim market.
I want to believe that there will come new companies that tries
to do better than Papyrus... Preferably European companies, since
turning left all the time gets a bit boring in the long run. ;)
And what about the possibility to recruit new hardcore racers from
the console market by publishing something that lies in the middle
of GPL and arcade racing? That might make people want to look
for more demanding simulations?
Just a thought...
/S
Quoted text (16 lines)
> > I think you're partly right...though i'm not sure papy will go console > only..or is that a confirmed thing? > Anyways..lets say N2003 is the last thing from papy for the PC, now i > heard good things about N2003 but i didn't buy it, although i got all > the previous papy sims i refuse to cash out another 40$ for what's > basically the same thing...all be it improved. > I think maybe for PCs the future might be birghter actually, with > seriously good freeware stuff like netkar, if the guy(s) doing that > keep it open so people can develope add ons like tracks, cars etc..etc > and at the same time keep it 'online cheating free' i really couldn't > care less about papy dumping PC developement > And then there's 'hardcore' payware like what the west bros are doing, > though as i have expressed before i have doubts about it ever seeing > the light of day. > All in all, i'm not worried about consoles taking over...Quoted text (15 lines)
> I think you're partly right...though i'm not sure papy will go console > only..or is that a confirmed thing? > Anyways..lets say N2003 is the last thing from papy for the PC, now i > heard good things about N2003 but i didn't buy it, although i got all > the previous papy sims i refuse to cash out another 40$ for what's > basically the same thing...all be it improved. > I think maybe for PCs the future might be birghter actually, with > seriously good freeware stuff like netkar, if the guy(s) doing that > keep it open so people can develope add ons like tracks, cars etc..etc > and at the same time keep it 'online cheating free' i really couldn't > care less about papy dumping PC developement > And then there's '***' payware like what the west bros are doing, > though as i have expressed before i have doubts about it ever seeing > the light of day. > All in all, i'm not worried about consoles taking over...:
> >
> > wait 1 year and we'll talk about that, consoles have a lifespan of about5
> > years but the hardware DOES NOT EVOLVE in these 5 years, do you rememberthe
> > best PC from 1998, pre GPL and the machines we have now, next year thePC
> > will overpower the consoles with 4G CPU, geforce 5 or 6 and all therest,
> > then the games will become NICER on PC's and 3 years after that theconsoles
That's why they use DX now...or open GL...
Quoted text (13 lines)
> > will come out with PS3 and XBOX2 or whatever and the cycle will start > > again.... > > However... The coders have to build adaptive game engines due to varying > hardware. I.e. it should run on a large span of hardware, from TNT2 to > GeForce4, Radeon or whatever... It is hard to optimize the performance > then! > > I still haven't seen a sim that is LOOKING nicer than Gran Turismo 3 on > the PC. But on the other hand I have never driven anything better than > GPL... Combine the two of them and, tadaaa! > > /STxl wrote:
That's not exactly what I meant. Sure, it's easier to code towards
an API instead of the hardware directly... But you have to take care of
the scalability of the graphics engine yourself. A TNT2 is not capable
of drawing as many triangles as a GeForce 4 in the same time...
If you only have on hardware platform you can optimize the code for
that very platform without having the processor to handle such issues.
/S
Quoted text (10 lines)
> > However... The coders have to build adaptive game engines due to varying > > hardware. I.e. it should run on a large span of hardware, from TNT2 to > > GeForce4, Radeon or whatever... It is hard to optimize the performance > > then! > > > > I still haven't seen a sim that is LOOKING nicer than Gran Turismo 3 on > > the PC. But on the other hand I have never driven anything better than > > GPL... Combine the two of them and, tadaaa! > That's why they use DX now...or open GL...Quoted text (9 lines)
> > However... The coders have to build adaptive game engines due to varying > > hardware. I.e. it should run on a large span of hardware, from TNT2 to > > GeForce4, Radeon or whatever... It is hard to optimize the performance > > then! > > I still haven't seen a sim that is LOOKING nicer than Gran Turismo 3 on > > the PC. But on the other hand I have never driven anything better than > > GPL... Combine the two of them and, tadaaa! > That's why they use DX now...or open GL...On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 18:08:34 GMT, "kop" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>NASCAR 2003 is the very last sim released. After that Papyrus will go with
>the consoles. We will never get a CART sim for PC. The console market is to
>be blamed. The sims have no future.
>
>(amen)
Consoles have not killed sims.
In a weird, twisted logic kind of way, powerful PCs have killed sims.
Back in the days of 386s and 486s, simulation players were very aware
of the limitations of the hardware. We were quite frankly just amazed
enough to get something that resembled what we imagined the real thing
might be like. If we ever complained about feature X or Y being
missing, it was soon brought to our attention that implementing it
simply was not possible with the hardware, and we accepted it.
Nowadays, we *know* that out hardware has the sort of power to run
amazingly detailed physics models, photorealistic graphics.
Simply put, developing a *simulation* that makes full use of the power
available today is simpy not an economic proposition. This sitiuation
will only get worse as we get yet more power.
Ian
> Nowadays, we *know* that out hardware has the sort of power to run
> amazingly detailed physics models, photorealistic graphics.
>
> Simply put, developing a *simulation* that makes full use of the power
> available today is simpy not an economic proposition. This sitiuation
> will only get worse as we get yet more power.
That's a very well-made point. We await the West's effort with baited
breath. ;-)
I don't know. As our machines increase in power and possibilities so to do
the development machines, doing more things automatically and faster. Also
there not really re-inventing the wheel every year. Papy, perfect example,
they've been adding on and tweaking the same game engine for how long now.
Some people complain that they just tweak the game engine, improve the
graphics, add a few new features and update the rosters every year, but
that's the way a mature business model works. (Unless you're EA then you
slowly make your product worse each year). A century ago every new car was
completely different but by the 50's they weren't trying to reinvent the
internal combustion engine every year. Just incremental improvements every
year.
If you really study the situation I think it's the rights fees that are
killing the sim market. Papy's not making any more NASCAR games not because
of technical limits but because they were shut out by EA that paid a
bazillion dollars to NASCAR for "exclusivity" (read monopoly). Ditto F1
where Bernie over played his hand and wanted more money than even EA would
pay.
Any way, GOOD I say. I'm just about to build a new box, primarily to take
advantage of F1 2002(GTR2002) and NR2003. And the price is killing me. If
I'm still using the same box in three years playing GTR2006 and NR2003 with
skin updates great. I know my wife sure would be happy.
I still play SCGT and GPL and how long have they been out. I think the
future of sims rest more on the ingenuity and hard work of this community
than with the publishers.
That's my two cents
(adjusted for Canadian exchange rate. Actual value 1.33 cents).
"Redmist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:b2qjvd$1fdj55$[email hidden]...
