NR2003 diff steering wheels affect handling

I wanted to see if I would like a force feedback wheel. So I have been going back and forth between a Thrustmaster Pro Digital 2 and a MS Sidewinder FF USB wheel. I have the Steering linearity at 80% for the TM, and 100% for MSFF, with FF strength at 50%, damping and latency at 0% What I have found is that a loose setup like "fast" at Vegas does not appear nearly as loose with the MSFF wheel. I started off at Vegas with the MSFF and was tight with the "fast" setup. So I put the TM back in and noticed I was loose on exit and had to take corner entry more carefully or I would lose the rear end on entry too. Plus if I tried the setup where I had tried to fix the tightness with MSFF, I was really really loose. I can get the same lap times at Vega with either wheel, but they are not good (bl very high 32., mainly low 33) . But now I am not sure if I am loose or tight since it depends on the wheel. Is the FF "hiding" the looseness from me? Using the MSFF my entry into the corners gets tighter and tighter with laps as the car just will not turn into the corners and drifts out to the wall. Also I sometimes get a wiggle comming out of the turns, I now suspect this is cause I am actually loose on exit but I did not realize that until I used the TM. Is this normal? Maybe I am just not used to the feel of the MSFF? What is FF supposed to do for you? bpostma cobra-drvr

Wheels can play a huge role in setups/driving style. things like range of motion can effect things a lot. Wheels can range from 180 sweep to 270 sweep. With the same steering ratio you would have to turn the 270 degree much farther than a 180 sweep wheel to get the virtual car's tires in the same orientation. I have a MOMO and I have to run the profiler software steering axis setting at 33% to take full advantage of the 270 sweep. If I run it at the default setting of 50% NR2003 (or any other Papy game) will not use the full sweep of the wheel. The numbers on the calibration screen stop at what would be the end of a 240 degree sweep wheel. MadDAWG

Hmmm. That is one more difference in the wheel I overlooked. The TM is a 180 wheel the MSFF is more like 315??? Anyway to account for this with the MSFF like you did with the momo? So what is the FF really trying to give you a feel of the tires or the weight transfers of the car? bpostma On Wed, 26 Feb 2003 10:00:18 -0500, "MadDAWG" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Wheels can play a huge role in setups/driving style. things like range of >motion can effect things a lot. Wheels can range from 180 sweep to 270 >sweep. With the same steering ratio you would have to turn the 270 degree >much farther than a 180 sweep wheel to get the virtual car's tires in the >same orientation. > >I have a MOMO and I have to run the profiler software steering axis setting >at 33% to take full advantage of the 270 sweep. If I run it at the default >setting of 50% NR2003 (or any other Papy game) will not use the full sweep >of the wheel. The numbers on the calibration screen stop at what would be >the end of a 240 degree sweep wheel. > >MadDAWG >

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>What I have found is that a loose setup like "fast" at Vegas does not >appear nearly as loose with the MSFF wheel. I started off at Vegas >with the MSFF and was tight with the "fast" setup. So I put the TM >back in and noticed I was loose on exit and had to take corner entry >more carefully or I would lose the rear end on entry too. Plus if I >tried the setup where I had tried to fix the tightness with MSFF, I >was really really loose. > >I can get the same lap times at Vega with either wheel, but they are >not good (bl very high 32., mainly low 33) . But now I am not sure if >I am loose or tight since it depends on the wheel. Is the FF "hiding" >the looseness from me? Using the MSFF my entry into the corners gets >tighter and tighter with laps as the car just will not turn into the >corners and drifts out to the wall. Also I sometimes get a wiggle >comming out of the turns, I now suspect this is cause I am actually >loose on exit but I did not realize that until I used the TM.

Interesting. With my MOMO, the fast setup is intolerably tight off the corner. It is loose in, but maybe just because of the brake setting. IMHO, a fast setup at Las Vegas will be so loose as to need to be driven very carefully for 3-4 laps until the tires get up to temperature, especially when feeding the throttle back on. > Is this normal? Maybe I am just not used to the feel of theMSFF? What is FF supposed to do for you? > FF gives you some feeling for what the front wheels are doing. It also prevents you (or at least gives you negative feedback) from jerking the wheel unnaturally. That may be why the non-FF wheel makes the car feel loose, you may simply be cranking it in too abruptly.

I'd go with the MSFFW. It's a proven, reliable and inexpensive wheel that also has about the best pedals available in a consumer-class wheel. You can find it on sale for around $79 from time to time. Typically it's $99 these days. Larry "Brian Postma" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> I wanted to see if I would like a force feedback wheel. So I have > been going back and forth between a Thrustmaster Pro Digital 2 and a > MS Sidewinder FF USB wheel. I have the Steering linearity at 80% for > the TM, and 100% for MSFF, with FF strength at 50%, damping and > latency at 0% > > What I have found is that a loose setup like "fast" at Vegas does not > appear nearly as loose with the MSFF wheel. I started off at Vegas > with the MSFF and was tight with the "fast" setup. So I put the TM > back in and noticed I was loose on exit and had to take corner entry > more carefully or I would lose the rear end on entry too. Plus if I > tried the setup where I had tried to fix the tightness with MSFF, I > was really really loose. > > I can get the same lap times at Vega with either wheel, but they are > not good (bl very high 32., mainly low 33) . But now I am not sure if > I am loose or tight since it depends on the wheel. Is the FF "hiding" > the looseness from me? Using the MSFF my entry into the corners gets > tighter and tighter with laps as the car just will not turn into the > corners and drifts out to the wall. Also I sometimes get a wiggle > comming out of the turns, I now suspect this is cause I am actually > loose on exit but I did not realize that until I used the TM. > > Is this normal? Maybe I am just not used to the feel of the MSFF? > What is FF supposed to do for you? > > bpostma > cobra-drvr >

Darn. I saw an open box one at Best But for $39 bucks the other day. Guess I should have snagged it. Maybe I'll stop on my way home tonight and see if its still there. Sounds like a good back up at the very least. MadDAWG

On Fri, 28 Feb 2003 12:19:49 -0500, "MadDAWG" <[email hidden]> wrote: }I saw an open box one at Best But for $39 bucks the other day. Amazon.com was running them at $79 minus a $20 rebate last week with free express shipping ($59 total)...