restrictor plates

I only discovered the joys of Nascar Racing since 6 months ago (bought NR2002 and got pay tv with Winston Cup coverage) so newbie question : restrictor plates are supposed to bring down speed on superspeedways but where are they located (under the car? at the back??), what is their form and do they just work as wings (spoilers/airbrakes) or is there something more technologically advanced at play??? greets,

<[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (8 lines)

> I only discovered the joys of Nascar Racing since 6 months ago (bought > NR2002 and got pay tv with Winston Cup coverage) so newbie question : > restrictor plates are supposed to bring down speed on superspeedways > but where are they located (under the car? at the back??), what is > their form and do they just work as wings (spoilers/airbrakes) or is > there something more technologically advanced at play??? > > greets,

They block off part of the engine intake below the carburetor. Less air gets into the engine, so less horespower is the result. It's just a $1 chunk of metal.

A restrictor plate is a square aluminum plate that has four holes drilled into it. Hole size is determined by NASCAR and varies between 0.875 inches and 1 inch (2.2 to 2.5 cm). Restrictor plates are placed between the carburetor and the intake manifold to reduce the flow of air and fuel into the engine's combustion chamber, thus reducing horsepower and speed. http://www.howstuffworks.com/nascar-safety2.htm On Tue, 04 Mar 2003 09:19:20 GMT, [email hidden] wrote:

Quoted text (8 lines)

>I only discovered the joys of Nascar Racing since 6 months ago (bought >NR2002 and got pay tv with Winston Cup coverage) so newbie question : >restrictor plates are supposed to bring down speed on superspeedways >but where are they located (under the car? at the back??), what is >their form and do they just work as wings (spoilers/airbrakes) or is >there something more technologically advanced at play??? > >greets,

"Rich8" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > 0.875 inches and 1 inch (2.2 to 2.5 cm). Restrictor plates are placed > between the carburetor and the intake manifold to reduce the flow of Carburetor???? Really? Injection is illegal? -- Jone Tytlandsvik http://tytlandsvik.no

Yes. "Jone Tytlandsvik" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:b42arr$1hst2v$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (16 lines)

> > "Rich8" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > 0.875 inches and 1 inch (2.2 to 2.5 cm). Restrictor plates are placed > > between the carburetor and the intake manifold to reduce the flow of > > Carburetor???? > Really? Injection is illegal? > > -- > Jone Tytlandsvik > http://tytlandsvik.no > > >

"Jone Tytlandsvik" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:b42arr$1hst2v$1@ID- 107013.news.dfncis.de:

Quoted text (16 lines)

> > "Rich8" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > >> 0.875 inches and 1 inch (2.2 to 2.5 cm). Restrictor plates are placed >> between the carburetor and the intake manifold to reduce the flow of > > Carburetor???? > Really? Injection is illegal? > > -- > Jone Tytlandsvik > http://tytlandsvik.no > > >

Winston Cup is OLD SCHOOL. Not only do they use Carbs, they have PUSHRODS as well. In fact, before Toyota was allowed to join in the truck series, they had to produce a pushrod V8. Nascar granted them a waiver for the Goodys Dash series(a low level series run by Nascar) so Toyota could get some experience, they were the only car with overhead cams. The old school is also why they still use a hand jack to raise the car for pitstops and fuel cans instead of hoses. Of course these 'old fashioned' engines are hand-built in multi-million dollar facilities with the usual racing tolerances. BUT they can't have any exotic metals either. dave henrie

>they have >PUSHRODS as well Hey, what's wrong with pushrods? Racer X Veteran Sim Racer #4 Corvette C5-R in the GTIC #24 Monte Carlo in the DORL Victory Lane- http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/1423/

"Target 12" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > >they have > >PUSHRODS as well Didn't Penske / Mercedes / Ilmor smoke the field with a pushrod motor at Indy by pushing the limits of the rules?

"Stephen F." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (8 lines)

> > "Target 12" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > >they have > > >PUSHRODS as well > > Didn't Penske / Mercedes / Ilmor smoke the field with a pushrod motor at > Indy by pushing the limits of the rules?

IIRC it was more like taking advantage of the rules. I think they got to run more boost (not exactly sure what "it" was) because of using pushrods. Kind of like when you'd get a weight break for running an automatic transmission in drag racing. Today the autos are preferred over rowing your own. MadDAWG

Fuel Injection? This is good-ol'-boy racing here, not F1 :) Larry "Jone Tytlandsvik" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:b42arr$1hst2v$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (16 lines)

> > "Rich8" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > 0.875 inches and 1 inch (2.2 to 2.5 cm). Restrictor plates are placed > > between the carburetor and the intake manifold to reduce the flow of > > Carburetor???? > Really? Injection is illegal? > > -- > Jone Tytlandsvik > http://tytlandsvik.no > > >

I'll take the low-end grunt from a pushrod-V8 any day over the whiney-ass neurotic horsepower that comes from OHC engines any day :) But then again, I'm a truck guy... -Larry "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (23 lines)

> "Jone Tytlandsvik" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:b42arr$1hst2v$1@ID- > 107013.news.dfncis.de: > > > > > "Rich8" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > >> 0.875 inches and 1 inch (2.2 to 2.5 cm). Restrictor plates are placed > >> between the carburetor and the intake manifold to reduce the flow of > > > > Carburetor???? > > Really? Injection is illegal? > > > > -- > > Jone Tytlandsvik > > http://tytlandsvik.no > > > > > > > > Winston Cup is OLD SCHOOL. Not only do they use Carbs, they have > PUSHRODS as well. In fact, before Toyota was allowed to join in the truck > series, they had to produce a pushrod V8. Nascar granted them a waiver

for > the Goodys Dash series(a low level series run by Nascar) so Toyota could > get some experience, they were the only car with overhead cams. > The old school is also why they still use a hand jack to raise the car > for pitstops and fuel cans instead of hoses. Of course these 'old > fashioned' engines are hand-built in multi-million dollar facilities with > the usual racing tolerances. BUT they can't have any exotic metalseither. > dave henrie

Just read an interview with one of the team owners the other day; can't remember where or who, but he was saying he wished they'd go to a spec fuel injection system since it more closely resembled "stock" cars of today and could be tweaked by Nascar to keep the cars closer in the engine compartment. But the flipside from Nascar was that it is easy and cheap to police carb bores, etc., but once you got into electronic fuel systems you were opening a Pandora's box for potential cheating and enforcement. I think you'd see OHC before EFI, but with the rpms WC cars are turning, you don't really need OHC. Not much in common with modern cars, for sure - but as then as DW put it, once they let Ford run the (4-door) Taurus with a Cup-spec body, "anything goes". SB PS - Also saw something the other day where either Frank Williams or Ron Dennis was giving Bernie and Max a dig by saying the electronic engine and chassis management systems on modern passenger cars are far more sophisticated than anything in F1. Of course they don't have any skin in that game... ;-) "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:gy59a.113102$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (26 lines)

> Fuel Injection? > > This is good-ol'-boy racing here, not F1 :) > > Larry > > "Jone Tytlandsvik" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:b42arr$1hst2v$[email hidden]... > > > > "Rich8" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > 0.875 inches and 1 inch (2.2 to 2.5 cm). Restrictor plates are placed > > > between the carburetor and the intake manifold to reduce the flow of > > > > Carburetor???? > > Really? Injection is illegal? > > > > -- > > Jone Tytlandsvik > > http://tytlandsvik.no > > > > > > > >

Fuel injection wouldn't work in Nascar. Nascar would put a big-ass hand-crank valve on the top and have it sticking out the hood so they could reach over and crank it down on any car that was a lot faster than anyone elses :) Larry "Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Just read an interview with one of the team owners the other day; can't > remember where or who, but he was saying he wished they'd go to a specfuel > injection system since it more closely resembled "stock" cars of today and > could be tweaked by Nascar to keep the cars closer in the engine > compartment. But the flipside from Nascar was that it is easy and cheapto

Quoted text (33 lines)

> police carb bores, etc., but once you got into electronic fuel systems you > were opening a Pandora's box for potential cheating and enforcement. I > think you'd see OHC before EFI, but with the rpms WC cars are turning, you > don't really need OHC. > > Not much in common with modern cars, for sure - but as then as DW put it, > once they let Ford run the (4-door) Taurus with a Cup-spec body, "anything > goes". > > SB > > PS - Also saw something the other day where either Frank Williams or Ron > Dennis was giving Bernie and Max a dig by saying the electronic engine and > chassis management systems on modern passenger cars are far more > sophisticated than anything in F1. Of course they don't have any skin in > that game... ;-) > > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:gy59a.113102$[email hidden]... > > Fuel Injection? > > > > This is good-ol'-boy racing here, not F1 :) > > > > Larry > > > > "Jone Tytlandsvik" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:b42arr$1hst2v$[email hidden]... > > > > > > "Rich8" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > > 0.875 inches and 1 inch (2.2 to 2.5 cm). Restrictor plates are

placed

Quoted text (15 lines)

> > > > between the carburetor and the intake manifold to reduce the flow of > > > > > > Carburetor???? > > > Really? Injection is illegal? > > > > > > -- > > > Jone Tytlandsvik > > > http://tytlandsvik.no > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

It was Robert Yates who wants Nascar to move to fuel injection. Ford and Toyota also want fuel injection. So Larry you might have this down the road, I wouldn't be suprised if it happens within 3 years. On Tue, 4 Mar 2003 14:12:19 -0500, "Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted text (21 lines)

>Just read an interview with one of the team owners the other day; can't >remember where or who, but he was saying he wished they'd go to a spec fuel >injection system since it more closely resembled "stock" cars of today and >could be tweaked by Nascar to keep the cars closer in the engine >compartment. But the flipside from Nascar was that it is easy and cheap to >police carb bores, etc., but once you got into electronic fuel systems you >were opening a Pandora's box for potential cheating and enforcement. I >think you'd see OHC before EFI, but with the rpms WC cars are turning, you >don't really need OHC. > >Not much in common with modern cars, for sure - but as then as DW put it, >once they let Ford run the (4-door) Taurus with a Cup-spec body, "anything >goes". > >SB > >> > >> >> >

It would certainly be interesting... The ways one could cheat would be limitless, especially at 'plate' tracks. Speaking of which, that would be one hell of a restrictor plate, wouldn't it :) Larry <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (11 lines)

> It was Robert Yates who wants Nascar to move to fuel injection. Ford > and Toyota also want fuel injection. So Larry you might have this > down the road, I wouldn't be suprised if it happens within 3 years. > > > > On Tue, 4 Mar 2003 14:12:19 -0500, "Steve Blankenship" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Just read an interview with one of the team owners the other day; can't > >remember where or who, but he was saying he wished they'd go to a spec

fuel > >injection system since it more closely resembled "stock" cars of todayand > >could be tweaked by Nascar to keep the cars closer in the engine > >compartment. But the flipside from Nascar was that it is easy and cheapto > >police carb bores, etc., but once you got into electronic fuel systemsyou > >were opening a Pandora's box for potential cheating and enforcement. I > >think you'd see OHC before EFI, but with the rpms WC cars are turning,you > >don't really need OHC. > > > >Not much in common with modern cars, for sure - but as then as DW put it, > >once they let Ford run the (4-door) Taurus with a Cup-spec body,"anything

Quoted text (10 lines)

> >goes". > > > >SB > > > > >> > > >> > >> > > >

The only way I see EFI working effectively is if NASCAR provides spec modules during inspection like they do with the restrictor plates. db "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ZA79a.114013$[email hidden]... > It would certainly be interesting... > > The ways one could cheat would be limitless, especially at 'plate' tracks. > > Speaking of which, that would be one hell of a restrictor plate, wouldn'tit

Quoted text (22 lines)

> :) > > Larry > > <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > It was Robert Yates who wants Nascar to move to fuel injection. Ford > > and Toyota also want fuel injection. So Larry you might have this > > down the road, I wouldn't be suprised if it happens within 3 years. > > > > > > > > On Tue, 4 Mar 2003 14:12:19 -0500, "Steve Blankenship" > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > >Just read an interview with one of the team owners the other day; can't > > >remember where or who, but he was saying he wished they'd go to a spec > fuel > > >injection system since it more closely resembled "stock" cars of today > and > > >could be tweaked by Nascar to keep the cars closer in the engine > > >compartment. But the flipside from Nascar was that it is easy and

cheap

Quoted text (9 lines)

> to > > >police carb bores, etc., but once you got into electronic fuel systems > you > > >were opening a Pandora's box for potential cheating and enforcement. I > > >think you'd see OHC before EFI, but with the rpms WC cars are turning, > you > > >don't really need OHC. > > > > > >Not much in common with modern cars, for sure - but as then as DW put

it,

Quoted text (14 lines)

> > >once they let Ford run the (4-door) Taurus with a Cup-spec body, > "anything > > >goes". > > > > > >SB > > > > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >

"Stephen F." <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]:

Quoted text (11 lines)

> > "Target 12" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... >> >they have >> >PUSHRODS as well > > Didn't Penske / Mercedes / Ilmor smoke the field with a pushrod motor at > Indy by pushing the limits of the rules? > > >

The rule was originally written for the benefit of one man, John Mennard. He was a friend of Satan's son(the IRL founder) and couldn't get his stock block v6's to run fast enough to compete with the Ford's and Illmor's. So the despicable one wrote rules to allow Mennard enough extra umph to compete, actually overcompete, with the purebred racing engines. Penkse went through the rules and found a very very very large loophole and went out and blew away the field. Now what was the fallout of this? A) Penkse was so pleased with his new motor he planned on running it for the rest of the CART season and into the next year. Ilmor, knowing they had the engine to beat, began a full scale program to build plenty more of these engines when the other teams came calling. B) CART restricted the use of the stock block engines, so Penske had to return to the regular Ilmors. C) Ilmor was so heavily invested financially in the new block program they could not properly maintain the pre-existing engine's research and development. For the next several years the Ilmor powerplant lost more and more ground to the Honda's and Fords...only one other season after this did the Ilmor compete effectively for the Manufactuer's cup. In fact, the F1 program also suffered at this time. D) Satan's ill-conceived child rewarded Penkse's team the very next year for flaunting his stockblock rule. For some reason the team that had won Indy a record # of times, the team that had tested in cold weather 3 months earlier and set very fast times, couldn't find any speed in May. If they ran high downforce they were too slow, if they trimmed out the cars the popoff valves(100% supplied and controlled by the Devils Spawn's track sanctioning team) would blow and kill their speed. Even when Penkse borrowed cars from Team Rahal, a team that had easily qualified, they still could not make the field. E) the child of the Devil knew his friend John Mennard couldn't financially compete with the top CART teams so he created the irl to keep the Penkse's of the world at bay.(until such time he needed big names to keep his underglamorized series afloat) He then made Team Mennard the official test team of the irl and provided them with over a 1000 laps at the brickyard to test tires, tubs, engines and trannies. Mennard's team, with the best remaining driver: a kid named Tony Stewart..failed to finish the majority of the irl's first season despite this huge testing adavantage. Many of the irl's teams arrived at the Disneyworld race with zero test laps. Here endeth the lesson, told without rancor or prejuidice, strictly the facts. dave henrie

Dave Henrie wrote: > > Here endeth the lesson, told without rancor or prejuidice, strictly the > facts. Uh huh..... Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

"Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > Dave Henrie wrote: > > > > Here endeth the lesson, told without rancor or prejuidice, strictlythe > > facts. > > Uh huh..... > Seems to be pretty much the way I remember things.... Especially the Devil Spawn stuff ;D db

Dave Boyle wrote: > > Seems to be pretty much the way I remember things.... > Especially the Devil Spawn stuff ;D Although I don't doubt most of the "facts" for a second, I do somehow and for some strange reason doubt DH's ability to talk about this "without rancor or prejudice" Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

<[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I only discovered the joys of Nascar Racing since 6 months ago (bought > NR2002 and got pay tv with Winston Cup coverage) so newbie question : > restrictor plates are supposed to bring down speed on superspeedways > but where are they located (under the car? at the back??), what is > their form and do they just work as wings (spoilers/airbrakes) or is > there something more technologically advanced at play??? Restrictor plates restricts the amount of the air going into the engine. --KC

"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ZA79a.114013$[email hidden]... > It would certainly be interesting... > > The ways one could cheat would be limitless, especially at 'plate' tracks. > > Speaking of which, that would be one hell of a restrictor plate, wouldn'tit > :) > No problem. Just make them use Bosch K-jetronic from a 1970s era VW. It was almost purely mechanical (and fun to work on). Not much cheating without a computer. Stephen

"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Yz59a.113119$[email hidden]... > I'll take the low-end grunt from a pushrod-V8 any day over the whiney-ass > neurotic horsepower that comes from OHC engines any day :) > > But then again, I'm a truck guy... > Personally, I'll take the low-end grunt of a BMW DOHC V8, coupled with the top-end rush of a BMW DOHC V8. :-) Iron fist in a velvet glove... Now, if it's low end grunt you want, just put us all in big diesels. They have enough torque to pull a house over.

Thanks to all for clarifying those tech details. I think that F1 could do with some of that "old school stuff". Would spice up things a bit... greetings, On Tue, 04 Mar 2003 09:19:20 GMT, [email hidden] wrote:

Quoted text (8 lines)

>I only discovered the joys of Nascar Racing since 6 months ago (bought >NR2002 and got pay tv with Winston Cup coverage) so newbie question : >restrictor plates are supposed to bring down speed on superspeedways >but where are they located (under the car? at the back??), what is >their form and do they just work as wings (spoilers/airbrakes) or is >there something more technologically advanced at play??? > >greets,

They would then be called restrictor chip racing. MadDAWG

I'm love Diesels too. Unfortunately GM killed the Diesels reputation in the late 70's/early 80's by using a converted gas engine passed off as a true diesel. The US Consumer has never forgotten that. There are signs of hope, though. One of my former customers (back in a previous life when I was an auto mechanic), who himself was a former Secretary Of The Navy, had one of the Olds models. We saw it a lot. If I remember correctly, he was a great tipper :) Larry "Stephen F." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3e65aed1$[email hidden]... > > "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:Yz59a.113119$[email hidden]... > > I'll take the low-end grunt from a pushrod-V8 any day over thewhiney-ass

Quoted text (15 lines)

> > neurotic horsepower that comes from OHC engines any day :) > > > > But then again, I'm a truck guy... > > > > Personally, I'll take the low-end grunt of a BMW DOHC V8, coupled with the > top-end rush of a BMW DOHC V8. :-) > > Iron fist in a velvet glove... > > Now, if it's low end grunt you want, just put us all in big diesels. They > have enough torque to pull a house over. > > >

Dave Henrie wrote: > > The rule was originally written for the benefit of one man, John > Mennard. Take your CART goggles off, Dave... The Buicks had more boost than the 2.65 racing engines for **years** before *Menard* took the program over. IIRC, TG relaxed the rules to encourage more mfr's to produce "stock block" engines. Ilmor took advantage. > A) Penkse was so pleased with his new motor he planned on running it for > the rest of the CART season and into the next year. Ilmor, knowing they > had the engine to beat, began a full scale program to build plenty more of > these engines when the other teams came calling. I don't recall a full CART campaign ever being a goal of the program. Just building upon the success of Indy '94 for 1995, until that got shot down when TG lowered the boost. > B) CART restricted the use of the stock block engines, so Penske had to > return to the regular Ilmors. That had been in place in CART for years beforehand. Witness the distinct lack of Buicks outside of Indy. > E) the child of the Devil knew his friend John Mennard couldn't > financially compete with the top CART teams so he created the irl to keep > the Penkse's of the world at bay. TG created the IRL solely as a playground for John Menard? You're reaching, Dave. If they were so chummy, I'd reckon John's son Paul would be racing in the IPS or IRL instead of Trans-Am (and Grand-Am and regional stock car series before that). The IRL is more about TG taking his ball and going home after getting his CART psuedo-takeover plan laughed out of a CART board meeting in ~'91-'92. One might note that this is also about the time TG got serious about bringing NASCAR to town. Many of the irl's teams arrived at the Disneyworld race with > zero test laps. So? Most had their resources stretched to the limit just to get a shot at Indy/Indy Car Racing. Fittipaldi/Dingman showed up at St. Pete with nothing more than a couple shakedown days at Road Atlanta. I'm sure other CART upstarts ran St. Pete on little to no testing. > Here endeth the lesson, told without rancor or prejuidice, strictly the > facts. Nice touch of irony. ;) It would've been much, much simpler to post, "I like CART, but not the IRL." :) -jde

1979 was the first year that the stock blocks (pushrod motors) were allowed an extra 10 inches of boost. (58 vs 48) Tony George was 18 at the time and didn't have a thing to do with it.. The rule was placed in effect to allow low budget teams to compete in the 500. Although the boost limits changed over the years, it was always 10 inches more for the stockblocks. Since CART would not allow the higher boost ratings in their rules, the pushrod motors were used only at Indy. Penske, with more money than God and the contacts to boot, bastardized the rule to his advantage. Legal? Certainly, no question about it, I won't argue that point. But truly, IMHO, it went against the spirit in which the rule was written. I was smiling from ear to ear when they didnt make the field the following year. Mike

"J.D. Ellis"

Quoted text (12 lines)

> >> Here endeth the lesson, told without rancor or prejuidice, strictly >> the >> facts. > > Nice touch of irony. ;) > > It would've been much, much simpler to post, "I like CART, but not the > IRL." :) > > -jde >

Yeah...so? LOL! dave henrie

Goy Larsen

Quoted text (14 lines)

> Dave Boyle wrote: >> >> Seems to be pretty much the way I remember things.... >> Especially the Devil Spawn stuff ;D > > Although I don't doubt most of the "facts" for a second, I do somehow > and for some strange reason doubt DH's ability to talk about this > "without rancor or prejudice" > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > "goyl at nettx dot no" >

What? You don't think that my personal contempt for all things related to that whining-syncophant-silver-spoon-in-his-mouth-got-his-money-from- his-mama's-back-pissant-step-son of Tony Hulman would color my observations? Naw I'm completely neutral in all reporting...I'm pretty sure of that... :) dave henrie