Damn You Papy!

I need to vent a bit about NR2002. Why did Papy decide to force Anti-Lock Brakes and Traction Control for those people without wheels? It doesn't make any sense, IMO. Sure, TC may help some keep their car on the track. But what about when you're trying to recover from a spin? Recovery is practically zero percent for a joystick. The tires refuse to spin when my ass end is pointing in the wrong direction on the track. This usually results in my car smashing into a wall because I can't manuever the damn car away from it. And ALB? Gimme a break. Sometimes, a driver needs to lock 'em up in tight situations. And many a' times I've overshot my pit stall since using a joystick. Things were never this bad with a wheel. Papy dev's, take a look at how the LFS dev's did their control (for braking) setup for non-wheel drivers. It's great, I think, because I still have control over my car. Frankly, forcing controller options to be on is like a donkey calling a mule an ass....it's pointless. At the very /least/, Papy could've made it a option for offline play. Slightly off topic, I'd also like to give a big 'damn you' to my computer. I was running a offline race at Tally, then TBO happened within the first ten laps. Guess what happens? A slide-show. I pointed her towards the grass and gave plenty of brake, but ooops...I can't lock up the brakes. When the FPS caught back up to double digits, I see the T3 wall coming towards me at 100~ MPH. Grr...never enough jobs, and when there are, there is never enough money to spend on my PC. I hope to god they will fix this in a patch for NR2003. If they don't, then the title will have to wait until after I scrape enough money together to buy a TSW. What's the point of buying it now when you won't be able to enjoy it with anything but a wheel? :) Ah. I feel better now. -Will

"William Bradshaw" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:

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> > Why did Papy decide to force Anti-Lock Brakes and Traction Control for those > people without wheels? It doesn't make any sense, IMO. Sure, TC may help > some keep their car on the track. But what about when you're trying to > recover from a spin? Recovery is practically zero percent for a joystick. > The tires refuse to spin when my ass end is pointing in the wrong direction > on the track. This usually results in my car smashing into a wall because I > can't manuever the damn car away from it. > > And ALB? Gimme a break. Sometimes, a driver needs to lock 'em up in tight > situations. And many a' times I've overshot my pit stall since using a > joystick. Things were never this bad with a wheel. Papy dev's, take a look > at how the LFS dev's did their control (for braking) setup for non-wheel > drivers. It's great, I think, because I still have control over my car. > Frankly, forcing controller options to be on is like a donkey calling a mule > an ass....it's pointless. > > > -Will

Since it sounds like you HAD a wheel at some point, why not go back to it? Trying to simulate racing/driving a car with a joystick is "like a donkey calling a mule an ass....it's pointless". Do you use a crowbar to drive a screw? Do you use a screwdriver to hammer a nail? NO, of course not. You need the proper tool to do the job right. Same principal for driving. Using a flight sim controller for driving a car is the WRONG tool and the results are predictable. Wheel/pedal combos are relatively cheap nowadays, so there really is no reson to still be using a joystick, or worse, the keyboard. Sure, sometimes they break and you have to do with what you have, but it sounds like to me, that the joystick is a voluntary choice. Dave

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> Do you use a crowbar to drive a screw? Do you use a screwdriver to > hammer a nail? NO, of course not. You need the proper tool to do the > job right. Same principal for driving. Using a flight sim controller > for driving a car is the WRONG tool and the results are predictable. > > Wheel/pedal combos are relatively cheap nowadays, so there really is > no reson to still be using a joystick, or worse, the keyboard. Sure, > sometimes they break and you have to do with what you have, but it > sounds like to me, that the joystick is a voluntary choice. > > Dave

Errr....as another joystick driver, I'll just butt in here to say that though there may be disadvantages to driving with a joystick (it can be a challenge to apply even braking and acceleration through turns without impacting steering, for instance....and RF braking, of course, is out), but with a bit of practice and a good joystick, it works just fine. Why choose a joystick, though, when wheels are cheap? For me, it's a simple matter of space. I don't have the room for a wheel or pedals. For others, it may simply be that they already have a good joystick and don't want to pay for another controller when a joystick works fine. Wish I could comment more on the N2002 concerns.....I've run it before and don't recall ever having any trouble with ALB or Traction Control being forced on, but I may have simply not noticed. Itazura

I don't have NR2002, but in GPL Papy only enforced these aids when the controller was digital, like the keyboard. Is it possible you have your joystick set to digital rather than analogue? Paul "William Bradshaw" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I need to vent a bit about NR2002. > > Why did Papy decide to force Anti-Lock Brakes and Traction Control forthose > people without wheels? It doesn't make any sense, IMO. Sure, TC may help > some keep their car on the track. But what about when you're trying to > recover from a spin? Recovery is practically zero percent for a joystick. > The tires refuse to spin when my ass end is pointing in the wrongdirection > on the track. This usually results in my car smashing into a wall becauseI

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> can't manuever the damn car away from it. > > And ALB? Gimme a break. Sometimes, a driver needs to lock 'em up in tight > situations. And many a' times I've overshot my pit stall since using a > joystick. Things were never this bad with a wheel. Papy dev's, take a look > at how the LFS dev's did their control (for braking) setup for non-wheel > drivers. It's great, I think, because I still have control over my car. > Frankly, forcing controller options to be on is like a donkey calling a

mule > an ass....it's pointless. > > At the very /least/, Papy could've made it a option for offline play. > > Slightly off topic, I'd also like to give a big 'damn you' to my computer.I > was running a offline race at Tally, then TBO happened within the firstten > laps. Guess what happens? A slide-show. I pointed her towards the grassand > gave plenty of brake, but ooops...I can't lock up the brakes. When the FPS > caught back up to double digits, I see the T3 wall coming towards me at100~ > MPH. Grr...never enough jobs, and when there are, there is never enough > money to spend on my PC. > > I hope to god they will fix this in a patch for NR2003. If they don't,then > the title will have to wait until after I scrape enough money together to > buy a TSW. What's the point of buying it now when you won't be able toenjoy

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> it with anything but a wheel? :) > > Ah. I feel better now. > > -Will > >

Just an FYI, but the abs/tc are "locked" when you set the gas or brake to a button. it has nothing to do with the controller type. If you have a third axis on your joystick you can use that. MadDAWG

Technically, doesn't it have to be locked if you are using a button for brakes or gas, since its either off or on, there is no half-throttle or trail-braking that you can do with buttons. -- Biz "Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular structures,....and the....." - Ash "MadDAWG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Just an FYI, but the abs/tc are "locked" when you set the gas or brake to a > button. it has nothing to do with the controller type. If you have a third > axis on your joystick you can use that. > > MadDAWG > >

crap, I got me a MS ff wheel, like new of Ebay for under 50. why scrape up 200+ for a wheel that you will have to clean/replace the pots in all the time? "William Bradshaw" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I need to vent a bit about NR2002. > > Why did Papy decide to force Anti-Lock Brakes and Traction Control forthose > people without wheels? It doesn't make any sense, IMO. Sure, TC may help > some keep their car on the track. But what about when you're trying to > recover from a spin? Recovery is practically zero percent for a joystick. > The tires refuse to spin when my ass end is pointing in the wrongdirection > on the track. This usually results in my car smashing into a wall becauseI

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> can't manuever the damn car away from it. > > And ALB? Gimme a break. Sometimes, a driver needs to lock 'em up in tight > situations. And many a' times I've overshot my pit stall since using a > joystick. Things were never this bad with a wheel. Papy dev's, take a look > at how the LFS dev's did their control (for braking) setup for non-wheel > drivers. It's great, I think, because I still have control over my car. > Frankly, forcing controller options to be on is like a donkey calling a

mule > an ass....it's pointless. > > At the very /least/, Papy could've made it a option for offline play. > > Slightly off topic, I'd also like to give a big 'damn you' to my computer.I > was running a offline race at Tally, then TBO happened within the firstten > laps. Guess what happens? A slide-show. I pointed her towards the grassand > gave plenty of brake, but ooops...I can't lock up the brakes. When the FPS > caught back up to double digits, I see the T3 wall coming towards me at100~ > MPH. Grr...never enough jobs, and when there are, there is never enough > money to spend on my PC. > > I hope to god they will fix this in a patch for NR2003. If they don't,then > the title will have to wait until after I scrape enough money together to > buy a TSW. What's the point of buying it now when you won't be able toenjoy

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> it with anything but a wheel? :) > > Ah. I feel better now. > > -Will > >

"Lawman_02766" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > <SNIPPED FOR EASY READING> > Since it sounds like you HAD a wheel at some point, why not go back to > it? Trying to simulate racing/driving a car with a joystick is "like a > donkey calling a mule an ass....it's pointless". Ah, that's a good idea. Too bad it isn't a viable plan. My wheel has had some problems. It all started when the plastic handle for the clamp broke off, then the right paddle broke off at the base. I doubt TM has replacement paddles for the wheel. > Do you use a crowbar to drive a screw? Do you use a screwdriver to > hammer a nail? NO, of course not. You need the proper tool to do the > job right. Same principal for driving. Using a flight sim controller > for driving a car is the WRONG tool and the results are predictable. > You're correct, unless you're hopelessly addicted to racing sims. And when your only wheel decides to crap out, you do what you gotta do. Even if that means moving down to a joystick to enjoy the sims of your choice. > Wheel/pedal combos are relatively cheap nowadays, so there really is > no reson to still be using a joystick, or worse, the keyboard. Sure, > sometimes they break and you have to do with what you have, but it > sounds like to me, that the joystick is a voluntary choice. > > Dave I can find one really good reason for using a joystick: I'm heinously broke and without a job (still waiting for /something/ to open up around here). And playing the title from a joystick, I'm entitled to nit pick a lil' bit. :) -Will

"Paul Harrington" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:NARja.242$[email hidden]... > I don't have NR2002, but in GPL Papy only enforced these aids when the > controller was digital, like the keyboard. Is it possible you have your > joystick set to digital rather than analogue? > > Paul > By default, it is digital (strictly on/off buttons). I do have a little pot that could be used for throttle, but it would be very troublesome to use. The genius designers of the stick put it in a bad place for racing games. ;) It's not their fault, however. Just a victim of circumstance. I don't think it's possible to go to analogue with this stick without opening the damn thing up and modding it. Instead, it would've been nice to have seen Papy to rethink and redesign controlling gas/brake from a digital controller. -Will

"MadDAWG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Just an FYI, but the abs/tc are "locked" when you set the gas or brake toa > button. it has nothing to do with the controller type. If you have athird > axis on your joystick you can use that. > > MadDAWG > You're correct. I know someone at Papy could've came up with a working design to make digital controllers function better in-game. The stick has a third axis, but it's too troublesome to use as a throttle control. I guess I could always use the Y axis for accel/brake if required, but I'd prefer the non-existant method of using buttons. Sheesh. Doing that reminds me of my N2 days. :) -Will

"Mitch Wing (PlowBoy)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > crap, I got me a MS ff wheel, like new of Ebay for under 50. why scrapeup > 200+ for a wheel that you will have to clean/replace the pots in all the > time? > I've heard nothing but good things about the quality of Thomas' wheel. Since I do have some training in electronics, changing the pots would be welcomed compared to having to buy a new wheel every 2-3 years. I'd also like to support a fella who helps his customers whenever possible. Finally....throw into the bowl a dash of 'jobless', and it becomes hard to just buy a new wheel on a whim. :) -Will

This is why I didn't buy N2K3. Papy, YOU LOST A SALE BECAUSE OF THIS. On Sat, 5 Apr 2003 04:29:50 -0600, "William Bradshaw" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>I need to vent a bit about NR2002. > >Why did Papy decide to force Anti-Lock Brakes and Traction Control for those >people without wheels? It doesn't make any sense, IMO. Sure, TC may help >some keep their car on the track. But what about when you're trying to >recover from a spin? Recovery is practically zero percent for a joystick. >The tires refuse to spin when my ass end is pointing in the wrong direction >on the track. This usually results in my car smashing into a wall because I >can't manuever the damn car away from it. > >And ALB? Gimme a break. Sometimes, a driver needs to lock 'em up in tight >situations. And many a' times I've overshot my pit stall since using a >joystick. Things were never this bad with a wheel. Papy dev's, take a look >at how the LFS dev's did their control (for braking) setup for non-wheel >drivers. It's great, I think, because I still have control over my car. >Frankly, forcing controller options to be on is like a donkey calling a mule >an ass....it's pointless. > >At the very /least/, Papy could've made it a option for offline play. > >Slightly off topic, I'd also like to give a big 'damn you' to my computer. I >was running a offline race at Tally, then TBO happened within the first ten >laps. Guess what happens? A slide-show. I pointed her towards the grass and >gave plenty of brake, but ooops...I can't lock up the brakes. When the FPS >caught back up to double digits, I see the T3 wall coming towards me at 100~ >MPH. Grr...never enough jobs, and when there are, there is never enough >money to spend on my PC. > >I hope to god they will fix this in a patch for NR2003. If they don't, then >the title will have to wait until after I scrape enough money together to >buy a TSW. What's the point of buying it now when you won't be able to enjoy >it with anything but a wheel? :) > >Ah. I feel better now. > >-Will >

In article <[email hidden]>, A.M.Tronic <[email hidden]> writes: >This is why I didn't buy N2K3. Papy, YOU LOST A SALE BECAUSE OF THIS. *1* sale. No offense, but I don't think they're shedding any tears about it... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:-1.680 MonsterRank: +334.169 N2002 Rank:+17.59 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On 10 Apr 2003 00:29:41 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote:

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>In article <[email hidden]>, A.M.Tronic ><[email hidden]> writes: > >>This is why I didn't buy N2K3. Papy, YOU LOST A SALE BECAUSE OF THIS. > >*1* sale. No offense, but I don't think they're shedding any tears about it... >

Kind of explains the general state of the economy these days.

"A.M.Tronic" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > This is why I didn't buy N2K3. Papy, YOU LOST A SALE BECAUSE OF THIS. Because they couldn't impliment analogue control on a digital on/off device? I have *no idea* how that could even possibly be implimented. Regards, Mark Davison OVAL Deputy Admin Car #69 http://www.mttj4.plus.com/OVAL/