OT [SPOILER] - f1 Brazil race question

Spoiler . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . I'm trying to figure out on which lap Alonso careered into that tyre. Some reports give it as lap 55 others as lap 54. Anyone got the definitive answer. -- Peter Ives (AKA Pete Ivington) Remove ALL_STRESS before replying via email If you know what's good for you, don't listen to me :) GPLRank Joystick -50.63 Wheel -21.77

Spoiler . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . According to all of the reports that I have read, it happened at the srt/finish line of the completition of the 54 th lap, thereby making it the 55 lap... at least that is what they are saying on the online reports.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> Spoiler > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > According to all of the reports that I have read, it happened at the srt/finish > line of the completition of the 54 th lap, thereby making it the 55 lap... at > least that is what they are saying on the online reports.

More like the start/finish straight - as far as I could see he was nowhere near the finish line. -- AG Remove removes from address to remove anti-spam measures. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Alan Gauton E-Mail agauton @ postmaster.co.uk Never for me the lowered banner, never the last endeavour! (Damon Hill - 16th June 1999)

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . I think on the TV screen it said 'race cancelled in lap 55'. Achim

Thats correct.. the Alonso accident actually occured on the 56th lap between turns 14 and 15 which leads onto the start finish straight so they hadn't passed the line for the end of lap 56. The result is taken on a count back from 2 laps before the lap on which the red flag is thrown which is why Raikonnen got the victory as he had been leading at the end of lap 53. Peter "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<b6u721$8nv36$[email hidden]>...

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> . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > . > I think on the TV screen it said 'race cancelled in lap 55'. > > Achim

way to spoiler space dude "Hoops74" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Thats correct.. the Alonso accident actually occured on the 56th lap > between turns 14 and 15 which leads onto the start finish straight so > they hadn't passed the line for the end of lap 56. > > The result is taken on a count back from 2 laps before the lap on > which the red flag is thrown which is why Raikonnen got the victory as > he had been leading at the end of lap 53. > > Peter > > "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<b6u721$8nv36$[email hidden]>...

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> > . > > . > > . > > . > > . > > . > > . > > . > > . > > . > > . > > . > > . > > . > > . > > . > > . > > I think on the TV screen it said 'race cancelled in lap 55'. > > > > Achim

In article <b6umo1$94nm3$[email hidden]>, "Dan_Leach" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>way to spoiler space dude >"Hoops74" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> Thats correct.. the Alonso accident actually occured on the 56th lap >> between turns 14 and 15 which leads onto the start finish straight so >> they hadn't passed the line for the end of lap 56. >> >> The result is taken on a count back from 2 laps before the lap on >> which the red flag is thrown which is why Raikonnen got the victory as >> he had been leading at the end of lap 53.

You're kidding, right? Didn't you read the title? It's marked OT *and* Spoiler. What more warning do you need? Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:-1.680 MonsterRank: +334.169 N2002 Rank:+17.59 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Apologies for that but I figured the subject kinda gave a clue as to the content. Peter On Tue, 8 Apr 2003 15:42:02 +0100, "Dan_Leach" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>way to spoiler space dude >"Hoops74" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> Thats correct.. the Alonso accident actually occured on the 56th lap >> between turns 14 and 15 which leads onto the start finish straight so >> they hadn't passed the line for the end of lap 56. >> >> The result is taken on a count back from 2 laps before the lap on >> which the red flag is thrown which is why Raikonnen got the victory as >> he had been leading at the end of lap 53. >> >> Peter >> >> "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:<b6u721$8nv36$[email hidden]>... >> > . >> > . >> > . >> > . >> > . >> > . >> > . >> > . >> > . >> > . >> > . >> > . >> > . >> > . >> > . >> > . >> > . >> > I think on the TV screen it said 'race cancelled in lap 55'. >> > >> > Achim >

In article <[email hidden]>, Hoops74 <[email hidden]> writes . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ..

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>Thats correct.. the Alonso accident actually occured on the 56th lap >between turns 14 and 15 which leads onto the start finish straight so >they hadn't passed the line for the end of lap 56. > >The result is taken on a count back from 2 laps before the lap on >which the red flag is thrown which is why Raikonnen got the victory as >he had been leading at the end of lap 53. >

Ok, that clears it up. I also have managed to confirm from other 'reliable' sources that the red flag was actually thrown on lap 56. Te reason I had asked was because, if it had actually been on lap 55, then the last completed lap would have been lap 54, with a 2 lap countback, that would have made the lap to be used for race results as lap 52. This had been the lap that Coulthard had pitted and so I had wondered whether this should have meant that his 4th place was somehow a gross miscalculation as surely he must have crossed the s/f line during his pitting before 1 or more of the 3 drivers who were said to have been placed ahead of him. Anyway, all moot now. :) -- Peter Ives (AKA Pete Ivington) Remove ALL_STRESS before replying via email If you know what's good for you, don't listen to me :) GPLRank Joystick -50.63 Wheel -21.77

On Tue, 8 Apr 2003 23:46:11 +0100, Peter Ives <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Ok, that clears it up. I also have managed to confirm from other >'reliable' sources that the red flag was actually thrown on lap 56. > >Te reason I had asked was because, if it had actually been on lap 55, >then the last completed lap would have been lap 54, with a 2 lap >countback, that would have made the lap to be used for race results as >lap 52. This had been the lap that Coulthard had pitted and so I had >wondered whether this should have meant that his 4th place was somehow a >gross miscalculation as surely he must have crossed the s/f line during >his pitting before 1 or more of the 3 drivers who were said to have been >placed ahead of him. > >Anyway, all moot now. :)

Apparently not, actually... "Michael Schumacher has added fuel to the embers of the fire which briefly erupted with the conclusion of the Brazilian grand prix. Although all parties involved seem to have accepted the result and Kimi R�ikk�nen�s victory, the world champion has publicly stated that, in his opinion, Giancarlo Fisichella won the race. The German�s argument revolves around the implementation of the FIA�s �countback� rule. The race was stopped on the 55th lap of 71 and under the FIA's red flag regulations the result was counted back two laps. The result was therefore based on the positions held at the end of lap 53. Where Schumacher�s query arises is in the fact that the race was allowed to be stopped because it had run over 75% distance. Schumacher says that if the FIA has implemented this rule then it has done so incorrectly. 75% race distance occurred on lap 54, thus if race results are taken from lap 53 then the race had run less laps than the point at which it is possible to end it and award full points. "One gets full points if three quarters of the distance is completed," explained Schumacher on German television, "which would be 54 laps. 55 laps were raced but two were deducted and based on this, R�ikk�nen was declared the winner. "If the FIA say that more laps were raced then they must declare Fisichella the winner," he continued, "It will be interesting to see how they explain this.�" And as you say, the red flag was shown after Fisico passed the s/f line, starting the 56th lap... The plot thickens... :) http://f1.racing-live.com/en/headlines/news/detail/030409123816.shtml I think we can solidely put this one in the book as the most controversial grand prix ever, eh? ;) /Magnus

Magnus Svensson <[email hidden]> wrote in message > I think we can solidely put this one in the book as the most > controversial grand prix ever, eh? ;) > Not even close. There was a Canadian GP in the late '60s or early '70's (before they used millions of dollars of equipment to count laps), where the rain and fog was so bad the humans counting laps lost track (some idiot decided October in Canada was good GP weather). 3 different drivers were declared winners within a couple of hours of the flag.

[email hidden] (mcewena) wrote:

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>Magnus Svensson <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> I think we can solidely put this one in the book as the most >> controversial grand prix ever, eh? ;) >> >Not even close. > >There was a Canadian GP in the late '60s or early '70's (before they >used millions of dollars of equipment to count laps), where the rain >and fog was so bad the humans counting laps lost track (some idiot >decided October in Canada was good GP weather). 3 different drivers >were declared winners within a couple of hours of the flag.

Yep, that was a heck of a day, 1973 actually. And it was September, not October <g>. I was working in the pits as a marshall that day, and I, along with the entire Lotus team (since I was hanging out in their pit), was convinced that Fittipaldi was the winner. We all thought the race was between Emmo and Jackie Oliver in the UOP Shadow. It wasn't till about 8 p.m. that they finally announced that Peter Revson had won! There wasn't any real fog that day, but the rain did play a significant role. The race started off wet, but it started to dry and people started coming in for slicks. At around the same time there was a big accident in Turn Two involving Scheckter and Cevert, so they put out the safety car (first time ever used during a GP). With al lthe confusion of pit stops the safety car picked up the wrong guy as leader (Howden Ganley, IIRC), with Revson at the back of the queue, but actually almost a full lap ahead of most of the field. Hell of a day, all right, but Brazil 2003 ranks right up there! Ian

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (mcewena) writes: >There was a Canadian GP in the late '60s or early '70's (before they >used millions of dollars of equipment to count laps), where the rain >and fog was so bad the humans counting laps lost track (some idiot >decided October in Canada was good GP weather). 3 different drivers >were declared winners within a couple of hours of the flag. Wow, I thought only the 1981 Indy 500 had that much confusion... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank:-1.680 MonsterRank: +334.169 N2002 Rank:+17.59 Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Magnus Svensson <[email hidden]> wrote in

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> > I think we can solidely put this one in the book as the most > controversial grand prix ever, eh? ;) > > > /Magnus >

I don't know about controversial...but certainly confused! dave henrie