After playing around with the demo for a few nights, I have to say
that TIR feels exactly like SCGT2 to me. The demo can be hacked to
incorporate some of the tweaks that can be used with the full version,
and so far, here's what I've done to make the demo more playable:
1) I've incorporated a fix for the "sticky" grass and dirt (we had to
do this when SCGT first came out, IIRC).
2) I've installed some "hardcore" physics settings to make the grip
levels more realistic (we had to do this with SCGT originally, as
well).
3) I have modified the volume levels and the sound files for the tire
squeal to provide better feedback on wheelspin and grip levels (which
was something we didn't have to do for SCGT).
With these changes, the demo feels a LOT like SCGT2 would feel if ISI
were to undertake such a project. Overall, the TIR physics engine
feels a lot like an ISI product in general, and graphically it's
superior to anything ISI has done so far (out of the box, with no
third-party graphic mods, that is). The AI reminds me a lot of the AI
in SCGT -- there isn't much "I" in the "AI" overall, but the AI cars
do slap and bang in a competitive manner, they drive both defensively
and aggressively, and they will bulldoze you out of the way if you're
not careful -- overall, though, the AI seems like it can be
challenging and entertaining, at the very least.
The overall lack of a damage model means there are no consequences for
being overly aggressive, which is a drawback from a realism
perspective, but in this respect, TIR isn't much worse than SCGT was
when it first arrived on the scene. SCGT at least provided us unseen
damage, and later visible damage was made available . . .
unfortunately, I don't think we'll ever see damage in TIR.
In general, though, the physics modeling in TIR seems to be much more
sophisticated than SCGT -- the physics engine runs at a higher
frequency than either TIR or Viper Racing, and it seems to model more
aspects of the chassis geometry than either of these sims. If I had to
rate it, I would say that while TIR may not be operating at the same
level as F1 2002 physics-wise, it definitely seems to be up to the F1
2000 or F1 2001 level, and it far surpasses SCGT or Viper Racing.
If there's any interest, I would be willing to make the mods that I
have incorporated into the demo version available as an all-in-one
package -- it would be simple to put together a self-installer that
would be easy for everybody to use.
FYI, the mods that I have incorporated are things that have been
posted on the High Gear TIR forum by others -- I haven't reinvented
the wheel, and I haven't come up with something new and revolutionary
on my own . . . all I've done is pick and choose between other
people's various tweaks, and I've come up with a combination that
captures a lot of the "feel" and excitement that I first experienced
with SCGT and Viper Racing.
TIR is definitely not GPL, but I think it is the best commercial
sports car sim we've seen yet . . . Codemasters' Pro Race Driver just
can't compare, physics-wise, and it's a huge disappointment in
comparison to TIR.
If anybody would be interested in a self-installer for the mods that
I've incorporated into the demo, let me know -- note that these mods
SHOULD also work with the full version as well, so if there is any
interest, and if we can arrive at a consensus for what feels "right,"
we may be able to establish some sort of a standard "hardcore" set of
tweaks. I know that an independent "hardcore" physics mod is already
available from the BHMS site, but the big difference between what
currently exists and what I have done is that I have also increased
the tire sounds, which REALLY helps you to understand what is going
on, physics-wise, and THAT has made a big difference in my overall
perception of TIR's physics model.
-- JCB
On 23 Apr 2003 08:36:21 -0700, [email hidden] (jbodin) wrote:
Hi John I haven't got the demo or game, but it's nice to hear from you
again. you dropped out of sight for a while. What have you been up
to playing F1 2002????
Regards Mike
"jbodin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (73 lines)
> After playing around with the demo for a few nights, I have to say > that TIR feels exactly like SCGT2 to me. The demo can be hacked to > incorporate some of the tweaks that can be used with the full version, > and so far, here's what I've done to make the demo more playable: > > 1) I've incorporated a fix for the "sticky" grass and dirt (we had to > do this when SCGT first came out, IIRC). > > 2) I've installed some "hardcore" physics settings to make the grip > levels more realistic (we had to do this with SCGT originally, as > well). > > 3) I have modified the volume levels and the sound files for the tire > squeal to provide better feedback on wheelspin and grip levels (which > was something we didn't have to do for SCGT). > > With these changes, the demo feels a LOT like SCGT2 would feel if ISI > were to undertake such a project. Overall, the TIR physics engine > feels a lot like an ISI product in general, and graphically it's > superior to anything ISI has done so far (out of the box, with no > third-party graphic mods, that is). The AI reminds me a lot of the AI > in SCGT -- there isn't much "I" in the "AI" overall, but the AI cars > do slap and bang in a competitive manner, they drive both defensively > and aggressively, and they will bulldoze you out of the way if you're > not careful -- overall, though, the AI seems like it can be > challenging and entertaining, at the very least. > > The overall lack of a damage model means there are no consequences for > being overly aggressive, which is a drawback from a realism > perspective, but in this respect, TIR isn't much worse than SCGT was > when it first arrived on the scene. SCGT at least provided us unseen > damage, and later visible damage was made available . . . > unfortunately, I don't think we'll ever see damage in TIR. > > In general, though, the physics modeling in TIR seems to be much more > sophisticated than SCGT -- the physics engine runs at a higher > frequency than either TIR or Viper Racing, and it seems to model more > aspects of the chassis geometry than either of these sims. If I had to > rate it, I would say that while TIR may not be operating at the same > level as F1 2002 physics-wise, it definitely seems to be up to the F1 > 2000 or F1 2001 level, and it far surpasses SCGT or Viper Racing. > > If there's any interest, I would be willing to make the mods that I > have incorporated into the demo version available as an all-in-one > package -- it would be simple to put together a self-installer that > would be easy for everybody to use. > > FYI, the mods that I have incorporated are things that have been > posted on the High Gear TIR forum by others -- I haven't reinvented > the wheel, and I haven't come up with something new and revolutionary > on my own . . . all I've done is pick and choose between other > people's various tweaks, and I've come up with a combination that > captures a lot of the "feel" and excitement that I first experienced > with SCGT and Viper Racing. > > TIR is definitely not GPL, but I think it is the best commercial > sports car sim we've seen yet . . . Codemasters' Pro Race Driver just > can't compare, physics-wise, and it's a huge disappointment in > comparison to TIR. > > If anybody would be interested in a self-installer for the mods that > I've incorporated into the demo, let me know -- note that these mods > SHOULD also work with the full version as well, so if there is any > interest, and if we can arrive at a consensus for what feels "right," > we may be able to establish some sort of a standard "hardcore" set of > tweaks. I know that an independent "hardcore" physics mod is already > available from the BHMS site, but the big difference between what > currently exists and what I have done is that I have also increased > the tire sounds, which REALLY helps you to understand what is going > on, physics-wise, and THAT has made a big difference in my overall > perception of TIR's physics model. > > -- JCBYes, please make the mods available, I would like to try them.
"jbodin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
>
> If there's any interest, I would be willing to make the mods that I
> have incorporated into the demo version available as an all-in-one
> package -- it would be simple to put together a self-installer that
> would be easy for everybody to use.
>
"jbodin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (73 lines)
> After playing around with the demo for a few nights, I have to say > that TIR feels exactly like SCGT2 to me. The demo can be hacked to > incorporate some of the tweaks that can be used with the full version, > and so far, here's what I've done to make the demo more playable: > > 1) I've incorporated a fix for the "sticky" grass and dirt (we had to > do this when SCGT first came out, IIRC). > > 2) I've installed some "hardcore" physics settings to make the grip > levels more realistic (we had to do this with SCGT originally, as > well). > > 3) I have modified the volume levels and the sound files for the tire > squeal to provide better feedback on wheelspin and grip levels (which > was something we didn't have to do for SCGT). > > With these changes, the demo feels a LOT like SCGT2 would feel if ISI > were to undertake such a project. Overall, the TIR physics engine > feels a lot like an ISI product in general, and graphically it's > superior to anything ISI has done so far (out of the box, with no > third-party graphic mods, that is). The AI reminds me a lot of the AI > in SCGT -- there isn't much "I" in the "AI" overall, but the AI cars > do slap and bang in a competitive manner, they drive both defensively > and aggressively, and they will bulldoze you out of the way if you're > not careful -- overall, though, the AI seems like it can be > challenging and entertaining, at the very least. > > The overall lack of a damage model means there are no consequences for > being overly aggressive, which is a drawback from a realism > perspective, but in this respect, TIR isn't much worse than SCGT was > when it first arrived on the scene. SCGT at least provided us unseen > damage, and later visible damage was made available . . . > unfortunately, I don't think we'll ever see damage in TIR. > > In general, though, the physics modeling in TIR seems to be much more > sophisticated than SCGT -- the physics engine runs at a higher > frequency than either TIR or Viper Racing, and it seems to model more > aspects of the chassis geometry than either of these sims. If I had to > rate it, I would say that while TIR may not be operating at the same > level as F1 2002 physics-wise, it definitely seems to be up to the F1 > 2000 or F1 2001 level, and it far surpasses SCGT or Viper Racing. > > If there's any interest, I would be willing to make the mods that I > have incorporated into the demo version available as an all-in-one > package -- it would be simple to put together a self-installer that > would be easy for everybody to use. > > FYI, the mods that I have incorporated are things that have been > posted on the High Gear TIR forum by others -- I haven't reinvented > the wheel, and I haven't come up with something new and revolutionary > on my own . . . all I've done is pick and choose between other > people's various tweaks, and I've come up with a combination that > captures a lot of the "feel" and excitement that I first experienced > with SCGT and Viper Racing. > > TIR is definitely not GPL, but I think it is the best commercial > sports car sim we've seen yet . . . Codemasters' Pro Race Driver just > can't compare, physics-wise, and it's a huge disappointment in > comparison to TIR. > > If anybody would be interested in a self-installer for the mods that > I've incorporated into the demo, let me know -- note that these mods > SHOULD also work with the full version as well, so if there is any > interest, and if we can arrive at a consensus for what feels "right," > we may be able to establish some sort of a standard "hardcore" set of > tweaks. I know that an independent "hardcore" physics mod is already > available from the BHMS site, but the big difference between what > currently exists and what I have done is that I have also increased > the tire sounds, which REALLY helps you to understand what is going > on, physics-wise, and THAT has made a big difference in my overall > perception of TIR's physics model. > > -- JCBSame here !
Good initiative !
Thanx TIR-buddy ! ;-)
Haqsau <[email hidden]> schreef in berichtnieuws
b86hd8$6gats$[email hidden]...
Quoted text (12 lines)
> Yes, please make the mods available, I would like to try them. > > "jbodin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > If there's any interest, I would be willing to make the mods that I > > have incorporated into the demo version available as an all-in-one > > package -- it would be simple to put together a self-installer that > > would be easy for everybody to use. > > > >Does it support split axis pedals?
Dave
jbodin <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (73 lines)
> After playing around with the demo for a few nights, I have to say > that TIR feels exactly like SCGT2 to me. The demo can be hacked to > incorporate some of the tweaks that can be used with the full version, > and so far, here's what I've done to make the demo more playable: > > 1) I've incorporated a fix for the "sticky" grass and dirt (we had to > do this when SCGT first came out, IIRC). > > 2) I've installed some "hardcore" physics settings to make the grip > levels more realistic (we had to do this with SCGT originally, as > well). > > 3) I have modified the volume levels and the sound files for the tire > squeal to provide better feedback on wheelspin and grip levels (which > was something we didn't have to do for SCGT). > > With these changes, the demo feels a LOT like SCGT2 would feel if ISI > were to undertake such a project. Overall, the TIR physics engine > feels a lot like an ISI product in general, and graphically it's > superior to anything ISI has done so far (out of the box, with no > third-party graphic mods, that is). The AI reminds me a lot of the AI > in SCGT -- there isn't much "I" in the "AI" overall, but the AI cars > do slap and bang in a competitive manner, they drive both defensively > and aggressively, and they will bulldoze you out of the way if you're > not careful -- overall, though, the AI seems like it can be > challenging and entertaining, at the very least. > > The overall lack of a damage model means there are no consequences for > being overly aggressive, which is a drawback from a realism > perspective, but in this respect, TIR isn't much worse than SCGT was > when it first arrived on the scene. SCGT at least provided us unseen > damage, and later visible damage was made available . . . > unfortunately, I don't think we'll ever see damage in TIR. > > In general, though, the physics modeling in TIR seems to be much more > sophisticated than SCGT -- the physics engine runs at a higher > frequency than either TIR or Viper Racing, and it seems to model more > aspects of the chassis geometry than either of these sims. If I had to > rate it, I would say that while TIR may not be operating at the same > level as F1 2002 physics-wise, it definitely seems to be up to the F1 > 2000 or F1 2001 level, and it far surpasses SCGT or Viper Racing. > > If there's any interest, I would be willing to make the mods that I > have incorporated into the demo version available as an all-in-one > package -- it would be simple to put together a self-installer that > would be easy for everybody to use. > > FYI, the mods that I have incorporated are things that have been > posted on the High Gear TIR forum by others -- I haven't reinvented > the wheel, and I haven't come up with something new and revolutionary > on my own . . . all I've done is pick and choose between other > people's various tweaks, and I've come up with a combination that > captures a lot of the "feel" and excitement that I first experienced > with SCGT and Viper Racing. > > TIR is definitely not GPL, but I think it is the best commercial > sports car sim we've seen yet . . . Codemasters' Pro Race Driver just > can't compare, physics-wise, and it's a huge disappointment in > comparison to TIR. > > If anybody would be interested in a self-installer for the mods that > I've incorporated into the demo, let me know -- note that these mods > SHOULD also work with the full version as well, so if there is any > interest, and if we can arrive at a consensus for what feels "right," > we may be able to establish some sort of a standard "hardcore" set of > tweaks. I know that an independent "hardcore" physics mod is already > available from the BHMS site, but the big difference between what > currently exists and what I have done is that I have also increased > the tire sounds, which REALLY helps you to understand what is going > on, physics-wise, and THAT has made a big difference in my overall > perception of TIR's physics model. > > -- JCBYes, YES!!!
Please do very much appreciated as usual!
Jay J
"Trick Dacy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:_jDpa.59333$[email hidden]...
Quoted text (20 lines)
> Same here ! > Good initiative ! > Thanx TIR-buddy ! ;-) > > Haqsau <[email hidden]> schreef in berichtnieuws > b86hd8$6gats$[email hidden]... > > Yes, please make the mods available, I would like to try them. > > > > "jbodin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > If there's any interest, I would be willing to make the mods that I > > > have incorporated into the demo version available as an all-in-one > > > package -- it would be simple to put together a self-installer that > > > would be easy for everybody to use. > > > > > > > > >I dunno, John; you and your dedication to lost causes. I really, really
tried to love TIR (alledgedly the remnants of the Westies' WSC project), and
even recommended to Alison Hine that she try it, but we both found it to be
something less than zero. It's console ancestry is all too apparent...even
before you comb thru its architecture and find references to a "memory card"
(could they at least have taken out the garbage before they ported it?).
Yes, it *looks* great (but not better than ISI products; in fact, to my eye
it has the same hard-edged, grainy look as the F12x games), but the AI is
clueless, and the gameplay is hopelessly arcade. Without the source code,
it's still a sow's ear. But thanks for trying.
"jbodin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (73 lines)
> After playing around with the demo for a few nights, I have to say > that TIR feels exactly like SCGT2 to me. The demo can be hacked to > incorporate some of the tweaks that can be used with the full version, > and so far, here's what I've done to make the demo more playable: > > 1) I've incorporated a fix for the "sticky" grass and dirt (we had to > do this when SCGT first came out, IIRC). > > 2) I've installed some "hardcore" physics settings to make the grip > levels more realistic (we had to do this with SCGT originally, as > well). > > 3) I have modified the volume levels and the sound files for the tire > squeal to provide better feedback on wheelspin and grip levels (which > was something we didn't have to do for SCGT). > > With these changes, the demo feels a LOT like SCGT2 would feel if ISI > were to undertake such a project. Overall, the TIR physics engine > feels a lot like an ISI product in general, and graphically it's > superior to anything ISI has done so far (out of the box, with no > third-party graphic mods, that is). The AI reminds me a lot of the AI > in SCGT -- there isn't much "I" in the "AI" overall, but the AI cars > do slap and bang in a competitive manner, they drive both defensively > and aggressively, and they will bulldoze you out of the way if you're > not careful -- overall, though, the AI seems like it can be > challenging and entertaining, at the very least. > > The overall lack of a damage model means there are no consequences for > being overly aggressive, which is a drawback from a realism > perspective, but in this respect, TIR isn't much worse than SCGT was > when it first arrived on the scene. SCGT at least provided us unseen > damage, and later visible damage was made available . . . > unfortunately, I don't think we'll ever see damage in TIR. > > In general, though, the physics modeling in TIR seems to be much more > sophisticated than SCGT -- the physics engine runs at a higher > frequency than either TIR or Viper Racing, and it seems to model more > aspects of the chassis geometry than either of these sims. If I had to > rate it, I would say that while TIR may not be operating at the same > level as F1 2002 physics-wise, it definitely seems to be up to the F1 > 2000 or F1 2001 level, and it far surpasses SCGT or Viper Racing. > > If there's any interest, I would be willing to make the mods that I > have incorporated into the demo version available as an all-in-one > package -- it would be simple to put together a self-installer that > would be easy for everybody to use. > > FYI, the mods that I have incorporated are things that have been > posted on the High Gear TIR forum by others -- I haven't reinvented > the wheel, and I haven't come up with something new and revolutionary > on my own . . . all I've done is pick and choose between other > people's various tweaks, and I've come up with a combination that > captures a lot of the "feel" and excitement that I first experienced > with SCGT and Viper Racing. > > TIR is definitely not GPL, but I think it is the best commercial > sports car sim we've seen yet . . . Codemasters' Pro Race Driver just > can't compare, physics-wise, and it's a huge disappointment in > comparison to TIR. > > If anybody would be interested in a self-installer for the mods that > I've incorporated into the demo, let me know -- note that these mods > SHOULD also work with the full version as well, so if there is any > interest, and if we can arrive at a consensus for what feels "right," > we may be able to establish some sort of a standard "hardcore" set of > tweaks. I know that an independent "hardcore" physics mod is already > available from the BHMS site, but the big difference between what > currently exists and what I have done is that I have also increased > the tire sounds, which REALLY helps you to understand what is going > on, physics-wise, and THAT has made a big difference in my overall > perception of TIR's physics model. > > -- JCBYup!
:-D
-- JCB
"DAVID J ROBINSON" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<iEDpa.1509$[email hidden]>...
Quoted text (78 lines)
> Does it support split axis pedals? > > Dave > jbodin <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > After playing around with the demo for a few nights, I have to say > > that TIR feels exactly like SCGT2 to me. The demo can be hacked to > > incorporate some of the tweaks that can be used with the full version, > > and so far, here's what I've done to make the demo more playable: > > > > 1) I've incorporated a fix for the "sticky" grass and dirt (we had to > > do this when SCGT first came out, IIRC). > > > > 2) I've installed some "hardcore" physics settings to make the grip > > levels more realistic (we had to do this with SCGT originally, as > > well). > > > > 3) I have modified the volume levels and the sound files for the tire > > squeal to provide better feedback on wheelspin and grip levels (which > > was something we didn't have to do for SCGT). > > > > With these changes, the demo feels a LOT like SCGT2 would feel if ISI > > were to undertake such a project. Overall, the TIR physics engine > > feels a lot like an ISI product in general, and graphically it's > > superior to anything ISI has done so far (out of the box, with no > > third-party graphic mods, that is). The AI reminds me a lot of the AI > > in SCGT -- there isn't much "I" in the "AI" overall, but the AI cars > > do slap and bang in a competitive manner, they drive both defensively > > and aggressively, and they will bulldoze you out of the way if you're > > not careful -- overall, though, the AI seems like it can be > > challenging and entertaining, at the very least. > > > > The overall lack of a damage model means there are no consequences for > > being overly aggressive, which is a drawback from a realism > > perspective, but in this respect, TIR isn't much worse than SCGT was > > when it first arrived on the scene. SCGT at least provided us unseen > > damage, and later visible damage was made available . . . > > unfortunately, I don't think we'll ever see damage in TIR. > > > > In general, though, the physics modeling in TIR seems to be much more > > sophisticated than SCGT -- the physics engine runs at a higher > > frequency than either TIR or Viper Racing, and it seems to model more > > aspects of the chassis geometry than either of these sims. If I had to > > rate it, I would say that while TIR may not be operating at the same > > level as F1 2002 physics-wise, it definitely seems to be up to the F1 > > 2000 or F1 2001 level, and it far surpasses SCGT or Viper Racing. > > > > If there's any interest, I would be willing to make the mods that I > > have incorporated into the demo version available as an all-in-one > > package -- it would be simple to put together a self-installer that > > would be easy for everybody to use. > > > > FYI, the mods that I have incorporated are things that have been > > posted on the High Gear TIR forum by others -- I haven't reinvented > > the wheel, and I haven't come up with something new and revolutionary > > on my own . . . all I've done is pick and choose between other > > people's various tweaks, and I've come up with a combination that > > captures a lot of the "feel" and excitement that I first experienced > > with SCGT and Viper Racing. > > > > TIR is definitely not GPL, but I think it is the best commercial > > sports car sim we've seen yet . . . Codemasters' Pro Race Driver just > > can't compare, physics-wise, and it's a huge disappointment in > > comparison to TIR. > > > > If anybody would be interested in a self-installer for the mods that > > I've incorporated into the demo, let me know -- note that these mods > > SHOULD also work with the full version as well, so if there is any > > interest, and if we can arrive at a consensus for what feels "right," > > we may be able to establish some sort of a standard "hardcore" set of > > tweaks. I know that an independent "hardcore" physics mod is already > > available from the BHMS site, but the big difference between what > > currently exists and what I have done is that I have also increased > > the tire sounds, which REALLY helps you to understand what is going > > on, physics-wise, and THAT has made a big difference in my overall > > perception of TIR's physics model. > > > > -- JCBCool! Looks like there's SOME interest at least -- I've got a GPL
league race tonight, but I'll try to put together an installer in the
next day or so to get the ball rolling. If I can figure out how to
extract the player laptime information, I may contact the GPLRank
folks to see if they would be interested in hosting a "TIRRank"
listing (hey, they host a Rally Trophy Rank, right?). You may not
like the AI in TIR, but who can complain about hotlapping?
:-D
There might be a future for this game yet. Now all we need is some
file format information from Razorworks, some add-on cars, some add-on
tracks, and it WILL be SCGT2 . . .
;-)
-- JCB
"Jay J" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<MdFpa.60116$[email hidden]>...
Quoted text (30 lines)
> Yes, YES!!! > > Please do very much appreciated as usual! > > Jay J > > > > "Trick Dacy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:_jDpa.59333$[email hidden]... > > Same here ! > > Good initiative ! > > Thanx TIR-buddy ! ;-) > > > > Haqsau <[email hidden]> schreef in berichtnieuws > > b86hd8$6gats$[email hidden]... > > > Yes, please make the mods available, I would like to try them. > > > > > > "jbodin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > If there's any interest, I would be willing to make the mods that I > > > > have incorporated into the demo version available as an all-in-one > > > > package -- it would be simple to put together a self-installer that > > > > would be easy for everybody to use. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Haven't been doing much with F1 2002 lately -- I'm running in a GPL
league now, which takes up a lot of time. <G>
I would recommend trying the TIR demo, though . . . definitely worth a
look!
;-)
-- JCB
Mike Blackmore <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...
Quoted text (7 lines)
> On 23 Apr 2003 08:36:21 -0700, [email hidden] (jbodin) wrote: > > Hi John I haven't got the demo or game, but it's nice to hear from you > again. you dropped out of sight for a while. What have you been up > to playing F1 2002???? > > Regards MikeCool John,
If we can get online with it maybe I can put a race a bit like we did with
Rally trophy.
Now all I need is an Opel 1900 to run in that game.
Dave
jbodin <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
news:<iEDpa.1509$[email hidden]>...
Quoted text (7 lines)
> Yup! > > :-D > > -- JCB > > "DAVID J ROBINSON" <[email hidden]> wrote in messageQuoted text (78 lines)
> > Does it support split axis pedals? > > > > Dave > > jbodin <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > After playing around with the demo for a few nights, I have to say > > > that TIR feels exactly like SCGT2 to me. The demo can be hacked to > > > incorporate some of the tweaks that can be used with the full version, > > > and so far, here's what I've done to make the demo more playable: > > > > > > 1) I've incorporated a fix for the "sticky" grass and dirt (we had to > > > do this when SCGT first came out, IIRC). > > > > > > 2) I've installed some "hardcore" physics settings to make the grip > > > levels more realistic (we had to do this with SCGT originally, as > > > well). > > > > > > 3) I have modified the volume levels and the sound files for the tire > > > squeal to provide better feedback on wheelspin and grip levels (which > > > was something we didn't have to do for SCGT). > > > > > > With these changes, the demo feels a LOT like SCGT2 would feel if ISI > > > were to undertake such a project. Overall, the TIR physics engine > > > feels a lot like an ISI product in general, and graphically it's > > > superior to anything ISI has done so far (out of the box, with no > > > third-party graphic mods, that is). The AI reminds me a lot of the AI > > > in SCGT -- there isn't much "I" in the "AI" overall, but the AI cars > > > do slap and bang in a competitive manner, they drive both defensively > > > and aggressively, and they will bulldoze you out of the way if you're > > > not careful -- overall, though, the AI seems like it can be > > > challenging and entertaining, at the very least. > > > > > > The overall lack of a damage model means there are no consequences for > > > being overly aggressive, which is a drawback from a realism > > > perspective, but in this respect, TIR isn't much worse than SCGT was > > > when it first arrived on the scene. SCGT at least provided us unseen > > > damage, and later visible damage was made available . . . > > > unfortunately, I don't think we'll ever see damage in TIR. > > > > > > In general, though, the physics modeling in TIR seems to be much more > > > sophisticated than SCGT -- the physics engine runs at a higher > > > frequency than either TIR or Viper Racing, and it seems to model more > > > aspects of the chassis geometry than either of these sims. If I had to > > > rate it, I would say that while TIR may not be operating at the same > > > level as F1 2002 physics-wise, it definitely seems to be up to the F1 > > > 2000 or F1 2001 level, and it far surpasses SCGT or Viper Racing. > > > > > > If there's any interest, I would be willing to make the mods that I > > > have incorporated into the demo version available as an all-in-one > > > package -- it would be simple to put together a self-installer that > > > would be easy for everybody to use. > > > > > > FYI, the mods that I have incorporated are things that have been > > > posted on the High Gear TIR forum by others -- I haven't reinvented > > > the wheel, and I haven't come up with something new and revolutionary > > > on my own . . . all I've done is pick and choose between other > > > people's various tweaks, and I've come up with a combination that > > > captures a lot of the "feel" and excitement that I first experienced > > > with SCGT and Viper Racing. > > > > > > TIR is definitely not GPL, but I think it is the best commercial > > > sports car sim we've seen yet . . . Codemasters' Pro Race Driver just > > > can't compare, physics-wise, and it's a huge disappointment in > > > comparison to TIR. > > > > > > If anybody would be interested in a self-installer for the mods that > > > I've incorporated into the demo, let me know -- note that these mods > > > SHOULD also work with the full version as well, so if there is any > > > interest, and if we can arrive at a consensus for what feels "right," > > > we may be able to establish some sort of a standard "hardcore" set of > > > tweaks. I know that an independent "hardcore" physics mod is already > > > available from the BHMS site, but the big difference between what > > > currently exists and what I have done is that I have also increased > > > the tire sounds, which REALLY helps you to understand what is going > > > on, physics-wise, and THAT has made a big difference in my overall > > > perception of TIR's physics model. > > > > > > -- JCBHey, someone's gotta be out there rooting for the underdog!
;-)
As for the source code, I believe that Razorworks has made their
source code available for their helicopter sim, so there my yet be
hope for TIR . . .
</DREAMER MODE>
-- JCB
"Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<%ZQpa.41433$[email hidden]>...
Quoted text (86 lines)
> I dunno, John; you and your dedication to lost causes. I really, really > tried to love TIR (alledgedly the remnants of the Westies' WSC project), and > even recommended to Alison Hine that she try it, but we both found it to be > something less than zero. It's console ancestry is all too apparent...even > before you comb thru its architecture and find references to a "memory card" > (could they at least have taken out the garbage before they ported it?). > Yes, it *looks* great (but not better than ISI products; in fact, to my eye > it has the same hard-edged, grainy look as the F12x games), but the AI is > clueless, and the gameplay is hopelessly arcade. Without the source code, > it's still a sow's ear. But thanks for trying. > > "jbodin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > After playing around with the demo for a few nights, I have to say > > that TIR feels exactly like SCGT2 to me. The demo can be hacked to > > incorporate some of the tweaks that can be used with the full version, > > and so far, here's what I've done to make the demo more playable: > > > > 1) I've incorporated a fix for the "sticky" grass and dirt (we had to > > do this when SCGT first came out, IIRC). > > > > 2) I've installed some "hardcore" physics settings to make the grip > > levels more realistic (we had to do this with SCGT originally, as > > well). > > > > 3) I have modified the volume levels and the sound files for the tire > > squeal to provide better feedback on wheelspin and grip levels (which > > was something we didn't have to do for SCGT). > > > > With these changes, the demo feels a LOT like SCGT2 would feel if ISI > > were to undertake such a project. Overall, the TIR physics engine > > feels a lot like an ISI product in general, and graphically it's > > superior to anything ISI has done so far (out of the box, with no > > third-party graphic mods, that is). The AI reminds me a lot of the AI > > in SCGT -- there isn't much "I" in the "AI" overall, but the AI cars > > do slap and bang in a competitive manner, they drive both defensively > > and aggressively, and they will bulldoze you out of the way if you're > > not careful -- overall, though, the AI seems like it can be > > challenging and entertaining, at the very least. > > > > The overall lack of a damage model means there are no consequences for > > being overly aggressive, which is a drawback from a realism > > perspective, but in this respect, TIR isn't much worse than SCGT was > > when it first arrived on the scene. SCGT at least provided us unseen > > damage, and later visible damage was made available . . . > > unfortunately, I don't think we'll ever see damage in TIR. > > > > In general, though, the physics modeling in TIR seems to be much more > > sophisticated than SCGT -- the physics engine runs at a higher > > frequency than either TIR or Viper Racing, and it seems to model more > > aspects of the chassis geometry than either of these sims. If I had to > > rate it, I would say that while TIR may not be operating at the same > > level as F1 2002 physics-wise, it definitely seems to be up to the F1 > > 2000 or F1 2001 level, and it far surpasses SCGT or Viper Racing. > > > > If there's any interest, I would be willing to make the mods that I > > have incorporated into the demo version available as an all-in-one > > package -- it would be simple to put together a self-installer that > > would be easy for everybody to use. > > > > FYI, the mods that I have incorporated are things that have been > > posted on the High Gear TIR forum by others -- I haven't reinvented > > the wheel, and I haven't come up with something new and revolutionary > > on my own . . . all I've done is pick and choose between other > > people's various tweaks, and I've come up with a combination that > > captures a lot of the "feel" and excitement that I first experienced > > with SCGT and Viper Racing. > > > > TIR is definitely not GPL, but I think it is the best commercial > > sports car sim we've seen yet . . . Codemasters' Pro Race Driver just > > can't compare, physics-wise, and it's a huge disappointment in > > comparison to TIR. > > > > If anybody would be interested in a self-installer for the mods that > > I've incorporated into the demo, let me know -- note that these mods > > SHOULD also work with the full version as well, so if there is any > > interest, and if we can arrive at a consensus for what feels "right," > > we may be able to establish some sort of a standard "hardcore" set of > > tweaks. I know that an independent "hardcore" physics mod is already > > available from the BHMS site, but the big difference between what > > currently exists and what I have done is that I have also increased > > the tire sounds, which REALLY helps you to understand what is going > > on, physics-wise, and THAT has made a big difference in my overall > > perception of TIR's physics model. > > > > -- JCBJohn,
Don't get me wrong: I think it's great that yer out there beating the drums
for the underprivileged. Didn't you champion CART Precision Racing? All
kidding aside, that sim showed some promise, too. If MSFT had gone the
extra mile, we might not be cringing at the impending arrival of the
much-ballyhooed IRL sim.
I like to think I have an open mind. I'd be pleased and proud to try yer
tweaks for TIR.
--Steve
"jbodin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
news:<%ZQpa.41433$[email hidden]>...
> > I dunno, John; you and your dedication to lost causes. I really, really
> > tried to love TIR (alledgedly the remnants of the Westies' WSC project),and
> > even recommended to Alison Hine that she try it, but we both found it tobe
> > something less than zero. It's console ancestry is all tooapparent...even
> > before you comb thru its architecture and find references to a "memorycard"
> > (could they at least have taken out the garbage before they ported it?).
> > Yes, it *looks* great (but not better than ISI products; in fact, to myeye
> > it has the same hard-edged, grainy look as the F12x games), but the AIis
> > clueless, and the gameplay is hopelessly arcade. Without the sourcecode,
Quoted text (13 lines)
> Hey, someone's gotta be out there rooting for the underdog! > > ;-) > > As for the source code, I believe that Razorworks has made their > source code available for their helicopter sim, so there my yet be > hope for TIR . . . > > </DREAMER MODE> > > -- JCB > > "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in messageQuoted text (77 lines)
> > it's still a sow's ear. But thanks for trying. > > > > "jbodin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > After playing around with the demo for a few nights, I have to say > > > that TIR feels exactly like SCGT2 to me. The demo can be hacked to > > > incorporate some of the tweaks that can be used with the full version, > > > and so far, here's what I've done to make the demo more playable: > > > > > > 1) I've incorporated a fix for the "sticky" grass and dirt (we had to > > > do this when SCGT first came out, IIRC). > > > > > > 2) I've installed some "hardcore" physics settings to make the grip > > > levels more realistic (we had to do this with SCGT originally, as > > > well). > > > > > > 3) I have modified the volume levels and the sound files for the tire > > > squeal to provide better feedback on wheelspin and grip levels (which > > > was something we didn't have to do for SCGT). > > > > > > With these changes, the demo feels a LOT like SCGT2 would feel if ISI > > > were to undertake such a project. Overall, the TIR physics engine > > > feels a lot like an ISI product in general, and graphically it's > > > superior to anything ISI has done so far (out of the box, with no > > > third-party graphic mods, that is). The AI reminds me a lot of the AI > > > in SCGT -- there isn't much "I" in the "AI" overall, but the AI cars > > > do slap and bang in a competitive manner, they drive both defensively > > > and aggressively, and they will bulldoze you out of the way if you're > > > not careful -- overall, though, the AI seems like it can be > > > challenging and entertaining, at the very least. > > > > > > The overall lack of a damage model means there are no consequences for > > > being overly aggressive, which is a drawback from a realism > > > perspective, but in this respect, TIR isn't much worse than SCGT was > > > when it first arrived on the scene. SCGT at least provided us unseen > > > damage, and later visible damage was made available . . . > > > unfortunately, I don't think we'll ever see damage in TIR. > > > > > > In general, though, the physics modeling in TIR seems to be much more > > > sophisticated than SCGT -- the physics engine runs at a higher > > > frequency than either TIR or Viper Racing, and it seems to model more > > > aspects of the chassis geometry than either of these sims. If I had to > > > rate it, I would say that while TIR may not be operating at the same > > > level as F1 2002 physics-wise, it definitely seems to be up to the F1 > > > 2000 or F1 2001 level, and it far surpasses SCGT or Viper Racing. > > > > > > If there's any interest, I would be willing to make the mods that I > > > have incorporated into the demo version available as an all-in-one > > > package -- it would be simple to put together a self-installer that > > > would be easy for everybody to use. > > > > > > FYI, the mods that I have incorporated are things that have been > > > posted on the High Gear TIR forum by others -- I haven't reinvented > > > the wheel, and I haven't come up with something new and revolutionary > > > on my own . . . all I've done is pick and choose between other > > > people's various tweaks, and I've come up with a combination that > > > captures a lot of the "feel" and excitement that I first experienced > > > with SCGT and Viper Racing. > > > > > > TIR is definitely not GPL, but I think it is the best commercial > > > sports car sim we've seen yet . . . Codemasters' Pro Race Driver just > > > can't compare, physics-wise, and it's a huge disappointment in > > > comparison to TIR. > > > > > > If anybody would be interested in a self-installer for the mods that > > > I've incorporated into the demo, let me know -- note that these mods > > > SHOULD also work with the full version as well, so if there is any > > > interest, and if we can arrive at a consensus for what feels "right," > > > we may be able to establish some sort of a standard "hardcore" set of > > > tweaks. I know that an independent "hardcore" physics mod is already > > > available from the BHMS site, but the big difference between what > > > currently exists and what I have done is that I have also increased > > > the tire sounds, which REALLY helps you to understand what is going > > > on, physics-wise, and THAT has made a big difference in my overall > > > perception of TIR's physics model. > > > > > > -- JCB...and I should also say that I admire you for racing in a GPL league. Now
*there's* a game!
In fact, I consider GPL the greatest "game" of my life. I've spent more
time, money, and thought on GPL than I've spent on Fish, Monoply, Parchisi,
poker, 21, tap-dancing lessions, spin-the-bottle, soccer, track, real-world
racing (altho I believe I was the first to spend more than ten Large on
race-prepping a pushrod Porsche Speedster in the 60s), Flight Simulator
(altho I wrote a book abt. *that,* too), or hide-the-salami. Well....
--Steve
"jbodin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
news:<%ZQpa.41433$[email hidden]>...
> > I dunno, John; you and your dedication to lost causes. I really, really
> > tried to love TIR (alledgedly the remnants of the Westies' WSC project),and
> > even recommended to Alison Hine that she try it, but we both found it tobe
> > something less than zero. It's console ancestry is all tooapparent...even
> > before you comb thru its architecture and find references to a "memorycard"
> > (could they at least have taken out the garbage before they ported it?).
> > Yes, it *looks* great (but not better than ISI products; in fact, to myeye
> > it has the same hard-edged, grainy look as the F12x games), but the AIis
> > clueless, and the gameplay is hopelessly arcade. Without the sourcecode,
Quoted text (13 lines)
> Hey, someone's gotta be out there rooting for the underdog! > > ;-) > > As for the source code, I believe that Razorworks has made their > source code available for their helicopter sim, so there my yet be > hope for TIR . . . > > </DREAMER MODE> > > -- JCB > > "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in messageQuoted text (77 lines)
> > it's still a sow's ear. But thanks for trying. > > > > "jbodin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > After playing around with the demo for a few nights, I have to say > > > that TIR feels exactly like SCGT2 to me. The demo can be hacked to > > > incorporate some of the tweaks that can be used with the full version, > > > and so far, here's what I've done to make the demo more playable: > > > > > > 1) I've incorporated a fix for the "sticky" grass and dirt (we had to > > > do this when SCGT first came out, IIRC). > > > > > > 2) I've installed some "hardcore" physics settings to make the grip > > > levels more realistic (we had to do this with SCGT originally, as > > > well). > > > > > > 3) I have modified the volume levels and the sound files for the tire > > > squeal to provide better feedback on wheelspin and grip levels (which > > > was something we didn't have to do for SCGT). > > > > > > With these changes, the demo feels a LOT like SCGT2 would feel if ISI > > > were to undertake such a project. Overall, the TIR physics engine > > > feels a lot like an ISI product in general, and graphically it's > > > superior to anything ISI has done so far (out of the box, with no > > > third-party graphic mods, that is). The AI reminds me a lot of the AI > > > in SCGT -- there isn't much "I" in the "AI" overall, but the AI cars > > > do slap and bang in a competitive manner, they drive both defensively > > > and aggressively, and they will bulldoze you out of the way if you're > > > not careful -- overall, though, the AI seems like it can be > > > challenging and entertaining, at the very least. > > > > > > The overall lack of a damage model means there are no consequences for > > > being overly aggressive, which is a drawback from a realism > > > perspective, but in this respect, TIR isn't much worse than SCGT was > > > when it first arrived on the scene. SCGT at least provided us unseen > > > damage, and later visible damage was made available . . . > > > unfortunately, I don't think we'll ever see damage in TIR. > > > > > > In general, though, the physics modeling in TIR seems to be much more > > > sophisticated than SCGT -- the physics engine runs at a higher > > > frequency than either TIR or Viper Racing, and it seems to model more > > > aspects of the chassis geometry than either of these sims. If I had to > > > rate it, I would say that while TIR may not be operating at the same > > > level as F1 2002 physics-wise, it definitely seems to be up to the F1 > > > 2000 or F1 2001 level, and it far surpasses SCGT or Viper Racing. > > > > > > If there's any interest, I would be willing to make the mods that I > > > have incorporated into the demo version available as an all-in-one > > > package -- it would be simple to put together a self-installer that > > > would be easy for everybody to use. > > > > > > FYI, the mods that I have incorporated are things that have been > > > posted on the High Gear TIR forum by others -- I haven't reinvented > > > the wheel, and I haven't come up with something new and revolutionary > > > on my own . . . all I've done is pick and choose between other > > > people's various tweaks, and I've come up with a combination that > > > captures a lot of the "feel" and excitement that I first experienced > > > with SCGT and Viper Racing. > > > > > > TIR is definitely not GPL, but I think it is the best commercial > > > sports car sim we've seen yet . . . Codemasters' Pro Race Driver just > > > can't compare, physics-wise, and it's a huge disappointment in > > > comparison to TIR. > > > > > > If anybody would be interested in a self-installer for the mods that > > > I've incorporated into the demo, let me know -- note that these mods > > > SHOULD also work with the full version as well, so if there is any > > > interest, and if we can arrive at a consensus for what feels "right," > > > we may be able to establish some sort of a standard "hardcore" set of > > > tweaks. I know that an independent "hardcore" physics mod is already > > > available from the BHMS site, but the big difference between what > > > currently exists and what I have done is that I have also increased > > > the tire sounds, which REALLY helps you to understand what is going > > > on, physics-wise, and THAT has made a big difference in my overall > > > perception of TIR's physics model. > > > > > > -- JCBIt is only good for driving/hot lapping. The AI are worse than useless, but
if you get rid of them, you can have a lot of fun tooling around the tracks.
Marc
"Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:%ZQpa.41433$[email hidden]...
> I dunno, John; you and your dedication to lost causes. I really, really
> tried to love TIR (alledgedly the remnants of the Westies' WSC project),and
> even recommended to Alison Hine that she try it, but we both found it tobe
> something less than zero. It's console ancestry is all tooapparent...even
> before you comb thru its architecture and find references to a "memorycard"
> (could they at least have taken out the garbage before they ported it?).
> Yes, it *looks* great (but not better than ISI products; in fact, to myeye
Quoted text (81 lines)
> it has the same hard-edged, grainy look as the F12x games), but the AI is > clueless, and the gameplay is hopelessly arcade. Without the source code, > it's still a sow's ear. But thanks for trying. > > "jbodin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > After playing around with the demo for a few nights, I have to say > > that TIR feels exactly like SCGT2 to me. The demo can be hacked to > > incorporate some of the tweaks that can be used with the full version, > > and so far, here's what I've done to make the demo more playable: > > > > 1) I've incorporated a fix for the "sticky" grass and dirt (we had to > > do this when SCGT first came out, IIRC). > > > > 2) I've installed some "hardcore" physics settings to make the grip > > levels more realistic (we had to do this with SCGT originally, as > > well). > > > > 3) I have modified the volume levels and the sound files for the tire > > squeal to provide better feedback on wheelspin and grip levels (which > > was something we didn't have to do for SCGT). > > > > With these changes, the demo feels a LOT like SCGT2 would feel if ISI > > were to undertake such a project. Overall, the TIR physics engine > > feels a lot like an ISI product in general, and graphically it's > > superior to anything ISI has done so far (out of the box, with no > > third-party graphic mods, that is). The AI reminds me a lot of the AI > > in SCGT -- there isn't much "I" in the "AI" overall, but the AI cars > > do slap and bang in a competitive manner, they drive both defensively > > and aggressively, and they will bulldoze you out of the way if you're > > not careful -- overall, though, the AI seems like it can be > > challenging and entertaining, at the very least. > > > > The overall lack of a damage model means there are no consequences for > > being overly aggressive, which is a drawback from a realism > > perspective, but in this respect, TIR isn't much worse than SCGT was > > when it first arrived on the scene. SCGT at least provided us unseen > > damage, and later visible damage was made available . . . > > unfortunately, I don't think we'll ever see damage in TIR. > > > > In general, though, the physics modeling in TIR seems to be much more > > sophisticated than SCGT -- the physics engine runs at a higher > > frequency than either TIR or Viper Racing, and it seems to model more > > aspects of the chassis geometry than either of these sims. If I had to > > rate it, I would say that while TIR may not be operating at the same > > level as F1 2002 physics-wise, it definitely seems to be up to the F1 > > 2000 or F1 2001 level, and it far surpasses SCGT or Viper Racing. > > > > If there's any interest, I would be willing to make the mods that I > > have incorporated into the demo version available as an all-in-one > > package -- it would be simple to put together a self-installer that > > would be easy for everybody to use. > > > > FYI, the mods that I have incorporated are things that have been > > posted on the High Gear TIR forum by others -- I haven't reinvented > > the wheel, and I haven't come up with something new and revolutionary > > on my own . . . all I've done is pick and choose between other > > people's various tweaks, and I've come up with a combination that > > captures a lot of the "feel" and excitement that I first experienced > > with SCGT and Viper Racing. > > > > TIR is definitely not GPL, but I think it is the best commercial > > sports car sim we've seen yet . . . Codemasters' Pro Race Driver just > > can't compare, physics-wise, and it's a huge disappointment in > > comparison to TIR. > > > > If anybody would be interested in a self-installer for the mods that > > I've incorporated into the demo, let me know -- note that these mods > > SHOULD also work with the full version as well, so if there is any > > interest, and if we can arrive at a consensus for what feels "right," > > we may be able to establish some sort of a standard "hardcore" set of > > tweaks. I know that an independent "hardcore" physics mod is already > > available from the BHMS site, but the big difference between what > > currently exists and what I have done is that I have also increased > > the tire sounds, which REALLY helps you to understand what is going > > on, physics-wise, and THAT has made a big difference in my overall > > perception of TIR's physics model. > > > > -- JCB > >So once I get the AI sorted out, it should be a whole new ballgame, right?
Stay tuned . . .
;-)
-- JCB
"Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<ci1qa.3822$[email hidden]>...
