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Chasing Tales

26 posts by 14 people · 22 Feb 2007 02:16 UTC - 22 Mar 2007 12:51 UTC

Flame warOff-topic political post leads to global warming debate

A political allegory from Mitch_A drew insults, then turned into a debate on global warming, with Jeff Reid disputing man-made CO2's contribution and others, including Andrew MacPherson, citing evidence and peak oil.

off-topic

Automated summary.

Mitch_A 22 Feb 2007 02:16 UTC#6963
If you love dogs you'll know how hard it is to watch. For neurological or physiological reasons, a dog may spend hours chasing his tail. If he catches it and causes injury it could, if left untreated, cause further injury and worsen the whirling behavior. I sense five perceptions to this problem. To the dog: His tail preoccupies him for long periods of time. It is the reason for, and the solution to, all of his problems. Left untreated, he will chase it until hunger, thirst, or fatigue overtakes him. When rested, he will continue his pursuit. Until treatment, training, and rehabilitation are provided, the dog will likely die after breathlessly wasting his life. To pet owners: The disturbing behavior interferes with their otherwise healthy relationship with the family pet. Tail-chasing also distracts him from the security that comes with his territorial instincts. To underdeveloped adults: Like porn, a tortured dog can provide hours of entertainment, especially for those desperate to relieve their own pain. To disinterested neighbors: Although annoying, the dog seems active and fully engaged. To criminals: Whirling dogs are too busy to protect territory or confront evil. So how did whirling dogs get my attention? If you said "global warming" you would be correct! Let me explain: The dog's tail presents an imagined source of anxiety. Healthy dogs hardly notice their tails until caught in a door or stepped on. But to mentally disturbed animals, their obsessive compulsion resembles the paranormal hysteria that preoccupies our global warming alarmists. Except for the meteorologists and climatologists who have studied our skies for centuries, most people hardly notice the weather until the game gets rained out. But to Al Gore, hot and cold days, thickening and melting ice, rain and drought, day and night, deserts and mountains all remind him of his scabbed little tale. If Gore was alone in this endeavor he'd be viewed as a deranged mongrel that needs help. The difference is that, this time, Gore has convinced other dogs to enlist more dogs to chase their tails and to recruit other whirling crazies, as if scouting for the canine version of Dance Fever. The pet owners represent the grown-ups of America. Those of us who embrace what Thomas Sowell describes as a "significant stake in society" look at the weather as the inexact science it is. Unless you belong to the Flat Earth Society you'll agree that the planet has warmed considerably since the Ice Age. But how can we believe scientists can predict the next 100,000 years when AccuWeather barely grasps the next 100 hours? And when leftist politicians dismiss internationally-recognized climatologists (1,2,3) for their heliocentric blasphemy, it's time for America's grown-ups to call the dog whisperer. America's underdeveloped adults will resist. After all, these cultists have invested much time and energy in the global warming tale. The orgy of concerts, fundraising, domestic terrorism, moonbat romances, and political enablers feel too good to surrender to the dysphoric sobriety of a wasted life. Like the seduced child who is suddenly too old for his priest, America's moonbats have wasted too much of their lives to chase another tale. But before they start passing the Kool-Aid I have some good news - there's always Obama and "racial profiling." America's disinterested neighbors are too preoccupied with their own lives to worry one way or the other. They hear Al Gore's growling snarls and suppose he's doing what dogs do. Gore sounds really busy, he stays active, and he makes lots of impressive noises, so he must know what he's doing. And regardless of what Gore's up to, the neighbors are too busy working, raising families, punching clocks, baking cookies, and suing corporations to worry about Gore's tale. They know that when the dust settles, Gore will take a well-deserved nap. After all, he's been busy protecting the planet from greenhouse gases. I'm amazed that secular moonbats so willingly genuflect to cow farts. No wonder they chase their tails. Criminals are a threat. While America is distracted by the growls, dust, and snapping of fake issues like global warming and racial profiling, immediate problems like Islam, medicine, Social Security, gangs, and public schools, are killing and crippling Americans today! To avoid any agreement with the Bush Administration, politicians seeking the moonbat vote will finance the ambitious scientists to promote the global warming issue, as long as those politicians keep the grant money coming in. I must admit, ever since I learned that global warming will drown San Francisco, Santa Monica, and Boston I've been burning old tires in my back year. But the reality is that the planet will continue to warm and humanity will adapt as we always have, as long as we survive the present global crisis. America's grown-ups see the dog chasing its tail. We've looked for parasites and mange but see nothing but bite marks and scars. We gather information, study the behaviors, and take steps to calm the animal. As much as I like Rudy, Newt, Condi, and Mitt, I think America needs Cesar Millan in '08!
On 22.02.2007 03:16, Mitch_A wrote: >snipped a very poor attempt at analogy< > While America is distracted by the growls, dust, and > snapping of fake issues like global warming and racial profiling, immediate > problems like Islam, medicine, Social Security, gangs, and public schools, > are killing and crippling Americans today! You sound like a fucking communist. I didn't know you had it in you. > > I must admit, ever since I learned that global warming will drown San > Francisco, Santa Monica, and Boston I've been burning old tires in my back > year. You sound so mature, so reflecting, so kind, so... understanding and willing to coexist with everyone. Hats off everyone. > But the reality is that the planet will continue to warm and humanity > will adapt as we always have, as long as we survive the present global > crisis. When the shit hits the fan, I am sure you will "adapt" just fine in your own eyes. If you adapt equally well to the future world as you adapt to the present world, you'll do just fine. Ignorance is bliss. > > America's grown-ups see the dog chasing its tail. We've looked for parasites > and mange but see nothing but bite marks and scars. We gather information, > study the behaviors, and take steps to calm the animal. You make it sound like we actually could lay or world in the hands of american grown-ups. Amazing how much good faith you have in american voters when you currently have a majority of what you call "leftists". My single point of argument is this: I don't care who can prove what in regard of the current global warming issue. What I do care about is if we can afford to take that chance or not. The global warming issue is not a lawsuit, it is a matter of a future habitable world or not. In other words; it's not a matter of prove or prove wrong, it's a matter of our willingness to play hazard with our actions when the worlds future is at stake. ---A---
"Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:C17Dh.1390$[email hidden]... > > As much as I like Rudy, Newt, Condi, and Mitt, I think America needs Cesar > Millan in '08! Put a bullet in your head.
That was funny Andre!! "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (7 lines)> >>You sound like a fucking communist. I didn't know you had it in you. > > Lol, you actually bothered to read that post? :D > > Cheers > Andre
> current global warming issue. Greenhouse gasses rated by effect: Water vapor - 95.000% Carbon Dioxide - 3.618% - man made .001170% Nitrous Oxide - 0.950% - man made .000469% Methane - 0.360% - man made .066000% CFCs + other - 0.072% - man made .047300% Global warming started 18000 years ago. Since then, the ice sheets that once convered much of the USA have receded to northern Canada. A link to some real data: http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVFossils/greenhouse_data.html
[email hidden] (Jeff Reid) wrote: > Global warming started 18000 years ago. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Carbon_Dioxide_400kyr-2.png The question for our generation(s) is do we take this seriously or do we gamble the planet as we know it to preserve our air conditioned, oil- fired, landfill dumping lifestyles? Either way we might be wrong, but if we're wrong in one direction we merely look stupid. Wrong in the other direction we f*ck the planet. The time for the developed world to grow up is approaching fast. Our capitalistic adolescence is coming to an end one way or another. Andrew McP
Mitch_A wrote: > To the dog: His tail preoccupies him for long periods of time. And how does your pathetic fixation with those evil 'liberals' differ? > Let me explain: Ah... no. Why don't you STFU instead?! The US must depolarize or it will die. Fuckheads like you are the real traitors, Mitch. -Greg -- "Stop throwing the Constitution in my face, it�s just a goddamned piece of paper!" - George W. Bush.
>> Global warming started 18000 years ago. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Carbon_Dioxide_400kyr-2.png > > The question for our generation(s) is do we take this seriously Again, look at the data, mankind only added 3.225% to the the total amount of carbon dioxide, which contributes only 3.618% of the global warming effect. Most of the increase in carbon dioxide is/was due to natural causes. There's not much we can do, short of creating a nuclear winter. Unlike the widipedia article, this site is the result of research of several professors. http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVFossils/greenhouse_data.html
[email hidden] (Jeff Reid) wrote: > mankind only added 3.225% to the the > total amount of carbon dioxide "Only"? We're talking about the planet's atmosphere here, not adding a bit of extra sauce to a hamburger. As you point out though, the great thing about the internet is there's a website for every opinion. Andrew McP
"Andrew MacPherson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (13 lines)> [email hidden] (Jeff Reid) wrote: > >> mankind only added 3.225% to the the >> total amount of carbon dioxide > > "Only"? We're talking about the planet's atmosphere here, not adding a > bit of extra sauce to a hamburger. > > As you point out though, the great thing about the internet is there's a > website for every opinion. > > Andrew McP >
This is the proof about global warming: http://www.neatorama.com/images/2006-05/positive-proof-global-warming-underwear.jpg
I look at it a different way, without looking at any of the constantly disputed data I have no problem believing: 1) That burning off fossil fuel energy within 200 years that took thousands (millions?) of years to store is going to have some sort of side effect. 2) The effect is likely to be like an avalanche, starts off with few snowflakes but builds. 3) The planet is the 2nd most complex Rub Goldberg machine (next to the universe itself) that we've ever imagined; therefore our ability to predict cause and effect is likely has several orders of magnitude of error (in any direction). 4) Our historical information on weather patterns is sketchy at best, how many category 4 hurricanes happened 50 years ago but we never had the technology to see them unless they hit a city? 5) The idea that motor racing is "carbon neutral" is the worst type of "Enron accounting". http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/56953 6) Democratic governments of all stripes do a lousy job of dealing with long term issues (hurts getting re-elected), but they don't mind paying lip service to them (helps get re-elected). 7) It will be nearly impossible to convince countries they can't have SUVs because we've already used up their quota. 8) The Kyoto accord was greeted by environmentalists when it was introduced as a weak first step, meeting Kyoto targets now didn't magically become a holy grail. 9) Nothing in this thread will cause Mitch or the Mitch-haters to change their minds. 10) Point 5 was the only vague tie in to simulated motor racing in this whole thread 11) Points 9 & 10 were never the point of the original posting. Just what I believe... PS, since we're all doomed I'm off to buy a Lincoln Navigator before there's another tax added to them ;)
[email hidden] (mcewena) wrote: > 2) The effect is likely to be like an avalanche, starts off > with few snowflakes but builds. It's the work pointing in this direction which makes me prepared to put climate change at the top of the agenda. Part of the reason why climate change is being taken increasingly seriously even by hardened sceptics and 'live for today' politicians is that whatever happens, peak oil is on its way very soon. The measures necessary to tackle that potential crisis happen to coincide economically with much of the global warming agenda. Andrew McP
"Asgeir Nesoen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:erk7uk$qsi$[email hidden]...
Quoted text (10 lines)> > > On 22.02.2007 03:16, Mitch_A wrote: >>snipped a very poor attempt at analogy< > >> While America is distracted by the growls, dust, and snapping of fake >> issues like global warming and racial profiling, immediate problems like >> Islam, medicine, Social Security, gangs, and public schools, are killing >> and crippling Americans today! >
Is there anything particularly wrong with public schools in America. Have you ever been in one, or are you simply going by what television tells you to think about them. I've been in plenty of public schools (including in the large inner cities) and they're pretty decent. Sure, schools have problems. But that's been going on for centuries. Kids rebel against learning, generally, because it is too hard and right now they don't like doing things that are too hard and don't like doing things that others tell them they must do. A great majority of us are the products of public schools, and many of us turned out just fine. Don't believe the media. The media's sole purpose is to sell. They will do anything to raise ratings, including lying and exaggerating. Alanb
On 26 Feb 2007 10:16:24 -0800, mcewena wrote: > PS, since we're all doomed I'm off to buy a Lincoln Navigator before > there's another tax added to them ;) > ;-) What beats me every time this subject comes up is that a) it's not obvious to people that poisoning the very stuff your very existence depends on (air and water) is a bad idea, even if there seems to be plenty of it and b) some people seem to define their personality over their car choice (read: Penis extension). Now, I love the green thing called the "Brabham" in GPL, but that doesn't create an internal desire to drive to work in one to impress the cow-workers or whatever. Cheers, uwe -- GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61
Peak oil is on its way? I'd say it's right here now. The world will never produce more oil than now, and the demand is increasing all the time. The peak oil situation is linked wonderfully ironically to the global warming issue in a way that'll bring great changes to this worlds distribution of power in very surprising ways, I am sure. ---A--- On 27.02.2007 00:08, Andrew MacPherson wrote:
Quoted text (16 lines)> [email hidden] (mcewena) wrote: > >> 2) The effect is likely to be like an avalanche, starts off >> with few snowflakes but builds. > > It's the work pointing in this direction which makes me prepared to put > climate change at the top of the agenda. > > Part of the reason why climate change is being taken increasingly > seriously even by hardened sceptics and 'live for today' politicians is > that whatever happens, peak oil is on its way very soon. The measures > necessary to tackle that potential crisis happen to coincide > economically with much of the global warming agenda. > > Andrew McP >
Mitch being concernced about medicine, social security and public schools was what triggered my ironic communist-calling-of-names comment... I have nothing against public schools, on the contrary, I have never been at any other kind of school in my life. I live in norway, where all schools are public, and it is a very important part of the social heritage found in many norwegians. The way things work in US makes public schools of tremendous importance because that is where most people will be educated, and even more important where the poorest or less fortunate will be educated. A democracy is never stronger than its weakest link, and if people aren't educated and with an perspective, democracy will not work, period. And don't get me going on social security, because people will call me names when I state my opinion! Hehehe ---A--- On 27.02.2007 05:16, Alan Bernardo wrote:
Quoted text (26 lines)> "Asgeir Nesoen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:erk7uk$qsi$[email hidden]... >> >> On 22.02.2007 03:16, Mitch_A wrote: >>> snipped a very poor attempt at analogy< >>> While America is distracted by the growls, dust, and snapping of fake >>> issues like global warming and racial profiling, immediate problems like >>> Islam, medicine, Social Security, gangs, and public schools, are killing >>> and crippling Americans today! > > Is there anything particularly wrong with public schools in America. Have > you ever been in one, or are you simply going by what television tells you > to think about them. I've been in plenty of public schools (including in > the large inner cities) and they're pretty decent. Sure, schools have > problems. But that's been going on for centuries. Kids rebel against > learning, generally, because it is too hard and right now they don't like > doing things that are too hard and don't like doing things that others tell > them they must do. A great majority of us are the products of public > schools, and many of us turned out just fine. > > Don't believe the media. The media's sole purpose is to sell. They will do > anything to raise ratings, including lying and exaggerating. > > Alanb > >
[email hidden] (Asgeir Nesoen) wrote: > Peak oil is on its way? I'd say it's right here now. I agree, but I try not to scare the uninitiated too much. :-) I think the next decade or so will be fascinating and scary at the same time. Andrew McP
I have to drive a big car/truck. No choice. And, if I buy a small car it's too expensive for me because I have to buy two of them. One for each foot... -Larry "Uwe Sch�rkamp" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (10 lines)> b) some people seem to define their personality over their car choice > (read: Penis extension). Now, I love the green thing called the > "Brabham" in GPL, but that doesn't create an internal desire to drive to > work in one to impress the cow-workers or whatever. > > Cheers, uwe > > > -- > GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61
These days I am looking for a new 2nd hand car, and it's got to be cheap, because I reckon I'll be able to find fuel for it (diesel) for no more than ten years from now. Diesel may be found for a few more years than petrol since it can be made from non-fossile sources, however We may find ways to make petrol and diesel without crude oil, but we'll still need a substantial amount of energy to do it. And we don't have that kind of amount of energy right now, and we won't have it in ten years. The technology and investment needed to get a new way of transporting goods and people will split this poor world even worse, since the countries which can afford it will do fine, but all the rest will suffer badly. However, the oil-independent economies, i.e. the poorest of the poor, will do just fine, since they often produce their own food, thus unaffected by not being able to transport stuff around. I think the "village" will thrive again after being decimated by the "shopping center economy", where every little village has what is needed. And of course we'll have to settle for less, much less. And because of this the planet will have a greater chance of surviving us, as paradoxic it may sound. If it doesn't kill you, it'll make you stronger, hehe. We'll surely see some new strange changes in the following decade indeed. ---A--- On 28.02.2007 13:10, Andrew MacPherson wrote:
Quoted text (8 lines)> [email hidden] (Asgeir Nesoen) wrote: > >> Peak oil is on its way? I'd say it's right here now. > > I agree, but I try not to scare the uninitiated too much. :-) I think > the next decade or so will be fascinating and scary at the same time. > > Andrew McP
On Thu, 01 Mar 2007 09:55:18 +0100, Asgeir Nesoen wrote: > And of course we'll have to settle for less, much less. And because of > this the planet will have a greater chance of surviving us, as paradoxic > it may sound. If it doesn't kill you, it'll make you stronger, hehe. > The planet will obviously survive us until the Sun goes Red Giant, but probably not as a human habitat which is a shame really as it's only one culture running havoc (east and west, twins of a common birth) and not the whole of humanity. Ok, it maybe the dominant one at the moment, but still it's only one cultural vision among tens of thousands that have existed successfully and sustainably for millenia from the time mankind came into being. Cheers, uwe -- GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61
On Sat, 10 Mar 2007 11:07 +0000 (GMT Standard Time), Andrew MacPherson wrote: > A very funny (for lefty-pinko-commy-enviro-peak-oily types) and quite > thought-provoking 45 minute history of oil and the Middle East. > > Not at all Mitch-friendly. > I watched a new Simpsons Episode last night, and it had a great line where Homer searches the entire house for some guy hiding in the attic, but his search only comes up with quote "I only found this newsweek edition from 1986 we've been looking for", and the "Newsweek" cover reads "Why America Loves Saddam Hussein", displaying Uncle Sam shaking hands with Saddam over a coffee table. Dunno if this was / is authentic, but it was hilarious, anyway ;-) All the best, uwe -- GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61
In article <C17Dh.1390$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... >America's grown-ups see the dog chasing its tail. We've looked for parasites >and mange but see nothing but bite marks and scars. We gather information, >study the behaviors, and take steps to calm the animal. > >As much as I like Rudy, Newt, Condi, and Mitt, I think America needs Cesar >Millan in '08! Damn! You're really fucking stupid! -Tim

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