GPL/NR2K2 Converter Question

Does anyone know why some folks have problems after converting their GPL tracks to NR2K2, the sim won't let them join? I mean, if there's only one converter (that I know of), why are there different versions of the tracks? Silverstone is a prime example. Anyone have the definitive answer on this?

John Simmons <[email hidden]> wrote in news:MPG.19277d574c15d9449898f2@news- server.satx.rr.com:

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> Does anyone know why some folks have problems after converting their > GPL tracks to NR2K2, the sim won't let them join? > > I mean, if there's only one converter (that I know of), why are there > different versions of the tracks? Silverstone is a prime example. > > Anyone have the definitive answer on this? >

Nr2k3 from what I hear is very picky about which version of a track you have. And yes, there are more than one of many of the tracks. I think we may have to start naming the tracks by builder. i.e. Noonan_Silver Many folks have whipped out some of the GPL tracks...some of those people have used Noonan's convertor and then possibly made a slight change to try and hide the similarities. However when that happens, two users, both with Silverstone, but by different authors..can't join the same race. Frustrating. dave henrie

Maybe NR2003 looks at the creation/modification date/time ? If so, that's gonna create a major problem with online racing. If this is going to be a problem, then buying the converter was a waste of my money. Larry "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> John Simmons <[email hidden]> wrote in news:MPG.19277d574c15d9449898f2@news- > server.satx.rr.com: > > > Does anyone know why some folks have problems after converting their > > GPL tracks to NR2K2, the sim won't let them join? > > > > I mean, if there's only one converter (that I know of), why are there > > different versions of the tracks? Silverstone is a prime example. > > > > Anyone have the definitive answer on this? > > > > Nr2k3 from what I hear is very picky about which version of a track you > have. And yes, there are more than one of many of the tracks. I think

we > may have to start naming the tracks by builder. i.e. Noonan_Silver > Many folks have whipped out some of the GPL tracks...some of those people > have used Noonan's convertor and then possibly made a slight change to try > and hide the similarities. However when that happens, two users, bothwith > Silverstone, but by different authors..can't join the same race. > Frustrating. > dave henrie

> Anyone have the definitive answer on this? Well, it's because Noonan has updated his converter from time to time, fixing bugs. These tracks converted with different versions of his converter / track description files arent't compatible online. When racing online, you should make sure that everyone including the host has the latest version of Noonan's converter files to make the conversion. -- Mika Takala

In article <asnva.1877$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> > Anyone have the definitive answer on this? > > Well, it's because Noonan has updated his converter from time to time, > fixing bugs. These tracks converted with different versions of his converter > / track description files arent't compatible online. > > When racing online, you should make sure that everyone including the host > has the latest version of Noonan's converter files to make the conversion. > > -- > Mika Takala > > >

How does one get the latest version of the converters (both demo and retail)? I downloaded the demo converter on 05/01/2002, and got the retail converter on 04/01/2003. I wasn't aware that there *were* any updates to the converter binary itself. However,the support page on the website lists several revised .EXP files (all of which I have applied, but none of which are Silverstone).

"John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Does anyone know why some folks have problems after converting their > GPL tracks to NR2K2, the sim won't let them join? > > I mean, if there's only one converter (that I know of), why are there > different versions of the tracks? Silverstone is a prime example. > > Anyone have the definitive answer on this?

Yep! Very simply, there were 6 different versions of GPL released. Each one had different patches applied to them (although how many had specifically different versions of Silverstone, I don't know). All it takes is for one 3do to be different, and the sim will bomb. Thus, any patches or graphics updates applied to the tracks will also cause problems. There is only one converter version that was released. As long as everyone grabs the patches from David's website, the version has no influence on what the track looks like (unless they use a very early version that was built for N4, perhaps). David has allowed leagues to privately post the track files to prevent problems. Just insure all drivers know that this is not a free for all for everyone to download and pass around. You may want to password the .zip files... Cheers! Jan

"Jan Kohl" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:dfsva.31240$[email hidden]... > David has allowed leagues to privately post the track files to preventproblems. Just insure all drivers know that this is not > a free for all for everyone to download and pass around. You may want topassword the .zip files... Correct me if I'm wrong here, but surely David Noonan does not have the authority to allow people to host converted tracks? The copyright would still lie with the developer of the original game (ie gpl) wouldn't it? Malc.

> Correct me if I'm wrong here, but surely David Noonan does not have the > authority to allow people to host converted tracks? The copyright would > still lie with the developer of the original game (ie gpl) wouldn't it? Are you talking "hosting" as in a server running the track, or "hosting" as insuring everyone has the same copy? If you buy a copy of GPL, you are free to do what you want with the tracks in the game, except for one thing... give them to someone else free of charge (or charge for use of them). Running a track on a server does not cross that boundary. If you are hosting the track for league players to insure everyone has the same track, you have several alternatives... insure that everyone has a copy of the converter and GPL (by whatever means you feel necessary), or you could post the .dat file without any of the corresponding files (.lp, .ini and so on) so that they would have to have a copy of the converter and GPL to correctly make the final track. To answer your question in the strictest sense of the word, no, David Noonan nor even Papy have the rights to allow you to host a converted track, David Noonan because he didn't build the original, and Papy because they don't own the rights to the conversion routine. However, if you are a league admin and take steps to insure that the drivers are not grabbing the converted copy without purchasing GPL or the converter, I don't think neither Papy or David Noonan is going to mind. However, I don't presume to speak for Papy nor their lawyers... :) Cheers! Jan

In article <8ixva.33457$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> > Correct me if I'm wrong here, but surely David Noonan does not have the > > authority to allow people to host converted tracks? The copyright would > > still lie with the developer of the original game (ie gpl) wouldn't it? > > Are you talking "hosting" as in a server running the track, or "hosting" as insuring everyone has the same copy? > > If you buy a copy of GPL, you are free to do what you want with the tracks in the game, except for one thing... > give them to someone else free of charge (or charge for use of them). Running a track on a server does not > cross that boundary. > > If you are hosting the track for league players to insure everyone has the same track, you have several alternatives... > insure that everyone has a copy of the converter and GPL (by whatever means you feel necessary), or you could post the .dat file > without any of the corresponding files (.lp, .ini and so on) so that they would have to have a copy of the converter and GPL to > correctly make the final track. > > To answer your question in the strictest sense of the word, no, David Noonan nor even Papy have the rights to allow you to host > a converted track, David Noonan because he didn't build the original, and Papy because they don't own the rights to the > conversion routine. However, if you are a league admin and take steps to insure that the drivers are not grabbing the converted > copy without purchasing GPL or the converter, I don't think neither Papy or David Noonan is going to mind. However, I don't > presume to speak for Papy nor their lawyers... :)

Well, that's a pretty dicey answer. I think we both know he meant putting the converted track up available for download, which is pretty much the only way you can guarantee that everyone is using the same track. We had a bunch of people that could not join the Silverstone race yesterday, and many of those people did the same thing I did - they used the demo converter to convert their GPL track. There's got to be a better way that just guessing, but that doesn't violate a copyright or that doesn't cause some other legal entanglement. It's really no wonder that we don't see a lot of pickup races on sierra, or that OLR doesn't support 3rd party tracks.

> There's got to be a better way that just guessing, but that doesn't > violate a copyright or that doesn't cause some other legal > entanglement. It's really no wonder that we don't see a lot of > pickup races on sierra, or that OLR doesn't support 3rd party tracks. Hmmmph. There's not many people nowadays who feel that way and have no quarrel about posting stuff illegally, and Sierra/Papy do nothing about them. I fail to see that they would take any action against someone who is taking steps to keep people who are not members of their league from downloading the same tracks and using them. Again, that's the best answer you're going to get unless someone from Papy might feel free to comment? Truely, the only way to *legally* post a track that is converted from a racing sim is to do this: Go to Sierra/Papyrus and purchase the rights for that track for a limited distribution. Get the converter. Dave has already given HIS permission for leagues to do so with conversions from *his point of view*. Then you would be well and truely legal. There is no other way, as I really doubt that Sierra/Papyrus would "officially" say that you could post one of their tracks...it would be, in effect, giving away their copyright to the track for them to say you could post it in that fashion. The only way we're really going to solve this is when more and more tracks get built for N2003 (like you see with GPL). When we get to the point that there are hundreds of tracks for N2003, you certainly won't see so many problems in this fashion. Cheers! Jan

In article <wwCva.36586$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> > There's got to be a better way that just guessing, but that doesn't > > violate a copyright or that doesn't cause some other legal > > entanglement. It's really no wonder that we don't see a lot of > > pickup races on sierra, or that OLR doesn't support 3rd party tracks. > > Hmmmph. There's not many people nowadays who feel that way and have no quarrel about posting stuff illegally, and Sierra/Papy > do nothing about them. I fail to see that they would take any action against someone who is taking steps to keep people who are > not members of their league from downloading the same tracks and using them. > > Again, that's the best answer you're going to get unless someone from Papy might feel free to comment? > > Truely, the only way to *legally* post a track that is converted from a racing sim is to do this: Go to Sierra/Papyrus and > purchase the rights for that track for a limited distribution. Get the converter. Dave has already given HIS permission for > leagues to do so with conversions from *his point of view*. Then you would be well and truely legal. There is no other way, as > I really doubt that Sierra/Papyrus would "officially" say that you could post one of their tracks...it would be, in effect, > giving away their copyright to the track for them to say you could post it in that fashion. > > The only way we're really going to solve this is when more and more tracks get built for N2003 (like you see with GPL). When we > get to the point that there are hundreds of tracks for N2003, you certainly won't see so many problems in this fashion. >

What REALLY sucks is that we have to worry about this at all. :)