NT 2004

Some stuff about NT 2004 here: http://www.simracingworld.com/content/185/

Some stuff about NT 2004 here: http://www.simracingworld.com/content/185/

Haqsau wrote: > Some stuff about NT 2004 here: http://www.simracingworld.com/content/185/ > > > Wow, thanks for posting this, Haqsau! Here's the few items that gets me excited: - "PC-Specific Game Engine: PC drivers enjoy a new physics engine that provides an authentic NASCAR simulation. Realistic vehicle dynamics accurately model tire grip and wear patterns, handling and suspension, and collisions." Let's hope they get a tire model on par with Papy's, and much more realistic physics. - "New PC Career Mode: For the first time, PC gamers get the challenge of managing teams, including sponsorships, car construction, R&D, and car setups." Finally! This has been my dream for a PC NASCAR title, and they're finally going to deliver. Bless 'em. I just pray it's as good as the PS2 version of NT2003. - "Vertex Damage Effects: In the improved damage model, every impact is unique as individual car damage models are rendered on the fly." Nice to see them working on damage even more, as it's really lacking in what we have. - "Amazing Visual Effects: Race through spectacular crashes with car fragments and flying sparks. Car parts on the track will damage vehicles if struck, and shadows cast by track objects are visible on car bodies." All excellent ideas if they're done in a realistic manner. and - "Sense of Speed: Greater volume of trackside items, more things "flying" by, and more shadow reflections on the car bodies and track surface." Before they get to the trackside stuff, they need to be working on properly modelled tracks. If they can do that, then I'll be really impressed with this. Maybe in this version they'll get things done right. Ping dev's: player NR2003! Mucho props to EA. -Will

Might I add, what they have planned for the AI excites me, too. In NT2003, it's nice to see 'em look like they're on the edge of control. Couple that with AI who are not afraid to put a bumper on ya, and it could make for some exciting damn racing for us offline racers. -Will

And a whopping 16 player multiplayer code! WOW! OH - Come on EA! GPL had 20 players - and that was *5* [five!] years ago! Like I've said to others... if you as a bare minimum can't even match that - you're not even trying. "Easy to Connect Network and Online Play: Revamped system allows up to 16 competitors to easily connect via LAN or online to battle in single race mode. With **broadband**, up to 16 players can connect with text chat and matchmaking by GameSpy" -- ed_

Ed Solheim wrote:

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> And a whopping 16 player multiplayer code! WOW! > > OH - Come on EA! GPL had 20 players - and that was *5* [five!] years ago! > > Like I've said to others... if you as a bare minimum can't even match that - > you're not even trying. > > "Easy to Connect Network and Online Play: Revamped system allows up to 16 > competitors to easily connect via LAN or online to battle in single race > mode. With **broadband**, up to 16 players can connect with text chat and > matchmaking by GameSpy" > > -- > ed_ >

I think everyone is well aware of the crap netcode that befalls ISI. So, I'm sure no one is expecting the excellent netcode that Papy has in their sims. Honestly, I'm not sure /what/ their hang up is in that area. Sure, it's horrible for the online players, but at least they're attempting to make a good simulation for us folks without broadband to enjoy online play. I'm glad they're trying to make the single player experience better than anything Papy ever attempted, too (aka Season Mode vs. proposed Career Mode). With Papyrus out the door for god knows how long, EA will be the big sh*t in the NASCAR PC sim market (unless NASCAR Heat: Dirt to Daytona comes onto the PC *wink wink*). On that note, they better not screw up. My advice to 'em: listen to the ideas of the people who are going to buy your software. -Will

EA's hang-up is they don't want to give it away free. Online gaming in their minds is a monthly service charge. Mitch "William Bradshaw" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Ed Solheim wrote: > > And a whopping 16 player multiplayer code! WOW! > > > > OH - Come on EA! GPL had 20 players - and that was *5* [five!] yearsago! > > > > Like I've said to others... if you as a bare minimum can't even matchthat - > > you're not even trying. > > > > "Easy to Connect Network and Online Play: Revamped system allows up to16 > > competitors to easily connect via LAN or online to battle in single race > > mode. With **broadband**, up to 16 players can connect with text chatand

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> > matchmaking by GameSpy" > > > > -- > > ed_ > > > > I think everyone is well aware of the crap netcode that befalls ISI. So, > I'm sure no one is expecting the excellent netcode that Papy has in > their sims. Honestly, I'm not sure /what/ their hang up is in that area. > > Sure, it's horrible for the online players, but at least they're > attempting to make a good simulation for us folks without broadband to > enjoy online play. I'm glad they're trying to make the single player > experience better than anything Papy ever attempted, too (aka Season > Mode vs. proposed Career Mode). > > With Papyrus out the door for god knows how long, EA will be the big > sh*t in the NASCAR PC sim market (unless NASCAR Heat: Dirt to Daytona > comes onto the PC *wink wink*). On that note, they better not screw up. > My advice to 'em: listen to the ideas of the people who are going to buy > your software. > > -Will >

What does charging for online racing have to do with the ability to fill an online race with the appropriate number of people? ;-) Mitch_A wrote:

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>EA's hang-up is they don't want to give it away free. Online gaming in >their minds is a monthly service charge. > >Mitch > > >"William Bradshaw" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... > > >>Ed Solheim wrote: >> >> >>>And a whopping 16 player multiplayer code! WOW! >>> >>>OH - Come on EA! GPL had 20 players - and that was *5* [five!] years >>> >>> >ago! > > >>>Like I've said to others... if you as a bare minimum can't even match >>> >>> >that - > > >>>you're not even trying. >>> >>>"Easy to Connect Network and Online Play: Revamped system allows up to >>> >>> >16 > > >>>competitors to easily connect via LAN or online to battle in single race >>>mode. With **broadband**, up to 16 players can connect with text chat >>> >>> >and > > >>>matchmaking by GameSpy" >>> >>>-- >>>ed_ >>> >>> >>> >>I think everyone is well aware of the crap netcode that befalls ISI. So, >>I'm sure no one is expecting the excellent netcode that Papy has in >>their sims. Honestly, I'm not sure /what/ their hang up is in that area. >> >>Sure, it's horrible for the online players, but at least they're >>attempting to make a good simulation for us folks without broadband to >>enjoy online play. I'm glad they're trying to make the single player >>experience better than anything Papy ever attempted, too (aka Season >>Mode vs. proposed Career Mode). >> >>With Papyrus out the door for god knows how long, EA will be the big >>sh*t in the NASCAR PC sim market (unless NASCAR Heat: Dirt to Daytona >>comes onto the PC *wink wink*). On that note, they better not screw up. >>My advice to 'em: listen to the ideas of the people who are going to buy >>your software. >> >>-Will >> >> >> > > > >

-- Ric Seyler Online Racing: RicSeyler GPL Handicap 6.35 [email hidden] http://www.pcola.gulf.net/~ricseyler -------------------------------------- "Homer no function beer well without." - H.J. Simpson

Personally I'm very encouraged. As much as I like NR 2003 I don't think it's a very good single player experience. There is a huge frame rate penalty for the AI and yet despite the amount of CPU they use the AI are still stone stupid on the road courses. ISI's AI isn't perfect either but it doesn't have as big a performance penalty and it seems a bit more human-like to me. For people that have to have multiplayer NR 2003 will probably continue to be the standard for the next few years but it isn't necessarily going to be the only game in town anymore - see the thread Damien Smith started called "ISI's new net code - some info". Based on the release dates it seems reasonable to assume that NT 2004 will get any improvements that were made for F1 Challenge. "William Bradshaw" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Ed Solheim wrote: > > And a whopping 16 player multiplayer code! WOW! > > > > OH - Come on EA! GPL had 20 players - and that was *5* [five!] yearsago! > > > > Like I've said to others... if you as a bare minimum can't even matchthat - > > you're not even trying. > > > > "Easy to Connect Network and Online Play: Revamped system allows up to16 > > competitors to easily connect via LAN or online to battle in single race > > mode. With **broadband**, up to 16 players can connect with text chatand

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> > matchmaking by GameSpy" > > > > -- > > ed_ > > > > I think everyone is well aware of the crap netcode that befalls ISI. So, > I'm sure no one is expecting the excellent netcode that Papy has in > their sims. Honestly, I'm not sure /what/ their hang up is in that area. > > Sure, it's horrible for the online players, but at least they're > attempting to make a good simulation for us folks without broadband to > enjoy online play. I'm glad they're trying to make the single player > experience better than anything Papy ever attempted, too (aka Season > Mode vs. proposed Career Mode). > > With Papyrus out the door for god knows how long, EA will be the big > sh*t in the NASCAR PC sim market (unless NASCAR Heat: Dirt to Daytona > comes onto the PC *wink wink*). On that note, they better not screw up. > My advice to 'em: listen to the ideas of the people who are going to buy > your software. > > -Will >

What is the "appropriate" number of people? Some of the best online races Ive had only included 3-4 equal drivers. My point is EA's support for internet gaming (so far as auto sims) has been patchy at best. This leads me to believe long term EA wants a gaming service of sorts. We all know they COULD have included online support for some years now. The question becomes why havent they? Mitch "Ric Seyler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... What does charging for online racing have to do with the ability to fill an online race with the appropriate number of people? ;-) Mitch_A wrote:

What is the "appropriate" number of people? Some of the best online races Ive had only included 3-4 equal drivers. My point is EA's support for internet *** (so far as auto sims) has been patchy at best. This leads me to believe long term EA wants a *** service of sorts. We all know they COULD have included online support for some years now. The question becomes why havent they? Mitch What does charging for online racing have to do with the ability to fill an online race with the appropriate number of people? ;-)

I would think the appropriate number of people is what the real world races start. :-) Mitch_A wrote:

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> What is the "appropriate" number of people? Some of the best online > races Ive had only included 3-4 equal drivers. > > My point is EA's support for internet gaming (so far as auto sims) has > been patchy at best. This leads me to believe long term EA wants a > gaming service of sorts. We all know they COULD have included online > support for some years now. The question becomes why havent they? > > Mitch > > "Ric Seyler" <[email hidden] <mailto:[email hidden]>> > wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > What does charging for online racing have to do with the > ability to fill an online race with the appropriate number > of people? ;-) > > Mitch_A wrote: > >> >

-- Ric Seyler Online Racing: RicSeyler GPL Handicap 6.35 [email hidden] http://www.pcola.gulf.net/~ricseyler -------------------------------------- "Homer no function beer well without." - H.J. Simpson

Well, that is what my "problem" is then - I have to have multiplayer.. The point of singel player mode gamin died for me "the minute" I experienced "Hawaii" for the first time.. To me going back to "SP" equals that of going back to a world without the net - now that you've used and experinced it. -- ed_ "Haqsau" said: > Personally I'm very encouraged. As much as I like NR 2003 I don't think > it's a very good single player experience. There is a huge frame rate > penalty for the AI and yet despite the amount of CPU they use the AI are > still stone stupid on the road courses. ISI's AI isn't perfect either but > it doesn't have as big a performance penalty and it seems a bit more > human-like to me. > > For people that have to have multiplayer NR 2003 will probably continue to > be the standard for the next few years but it isn't necessarily going to be > the only game in town anymore - see the thread Damien Smith started called > "ISI's new net code - some info". Based on the release dates it seems > reasonable to assume that NT 2004 will get any improvements that were made > for F1 Challenge.

Haqsau wrote:

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> Personally I'm very encouraged. As much as I like NR 2003 I don't think > it's a very good single player experience. There is a huge frame rate > penalty for the AI and yet despite the amount of CPU they use the AI are > still stone stupid on the road courses. ISI's AI isn't perfect either but > it doesn't have as big a performance penalty and it seems a bit more > human-like to me. >

No kidding, dude. While I enjoy the AI Papy have written for their NASCAR titles, it's my opinion that they still suck. Why do I think this? I never feel like I'm racing against a person with emotions. I want to see AI react to my bump 'n run ("I just did a bump 'n run for the lead, and all you can think about is /dip/?"). If I'm the faster car and capable of leading the train, they should tuck in behind me and stay close. On-track strategy is what they're missing, I think. They don't know when to conserve and go along for the ride, and when it's the right time to race. It also appears to me, at least, the cars don't look like they're on the edge of control. NASCAR Thunder 2003 has this. I wonder if Tiburon has simulated tire contact for each AI. Do you have any idea about this? However, Tiburon doesn't get all the glory here, either. Their AI never want to work with me, either, at least until it's too late for 'em. The actual aggressiveness should be interesting to see, instead of Papy's number that dictates which driver has more cajuna's. On the same topic, I've found the performance between NR2002 and NT2003 to be the same in wreck situations: low fps. I dislike how long it takes to load the tracks and simulate AI qualifying in NT2003, too. > For people that have to have multiplayer NR 2003 will probably continue to > be the standard for the next few years but it isn't necessarily going to be > the only game in town anymore - see the thread Damien Smith started called > "ISI's new net code - some info". Based on the release dates it seems > reasonable to assume that NT 2004 will get any improvements that were made > for F1 Challenge. Agreed. The fact remains that NR2003 was pretty much designed for online play, not offline, and that's where the bulk of the players will be. The AI and lack of single player stuff seems to prove this, IMO. Right now, Papyrus has shown how to do things correctly in regards to physics, tire model and track modelling. If, and it's a mighty big if, Tiburon can sit down, play NR2003 and see why it's so successful among simmers, they may be able to get a handle on how they should approach their title. Undoubtedly, it's going to require a lot of damn work. But starting with a career mode is a good start to give players something to work towards in their virtual racing careers. Imagine running a online league where everyone has to worry about sponsors, car setups AND R&D. I highly doubt they're going to offer that in the next iteration, because they're unable to let players have a full 43 car grid online. But maybe in the next 5 years we could see it happening. In the end, I don't care what they offer for eye candy. If they can't accurately simulate racing a 700+ horsepower Cup car with 42 other AI, then I'm not going to be impressed with them calling it a simulator. Anything less, to me, is an arcade game with pretty junk to look at. But at least it'd be an arcade game with a career mode. ;) -Will

Same here. "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Well, that is what my "problem" is then - I have to have multiplayer.. > The point of singel player mode gamin died for me "the minute" Iexperienced

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> "Hawaii" for the first time.. > > To me going back to "SP" equals that of going back to a world without the > net - now that you've used and experinced it. > > -- > ed_ > > > "Haqsau" said: > > > Personally I'm very encouraged. As much as I like NR 2003 I don't think > > it's a very good single player experience. There is a huge frame rate > > penalty for the AI and yet despite the amount of CPU they use the AI are > > still stone stupid on the road courses. ISI's AI isn't perfect either

but > > it doesn't have as big a performance penalty and it seems a bit more > > human-like to me. > > > > For people that have to have multiplayer NR 2003 will probably continueto > > be the standard for the next few years but it isn't necessarily going to > be > > the only game in town anymore - see the thread Damien Smith startedcalled > > "ISI's new net code - some info". Based on the release dates it seems > > reasonable to assume that NT 2004 will get any improvements that weremade > > for F1 Challenge. > >

I don't think that's true. Look at their non-racing games, like Battlefield 1942 and Medal of Honor. Both have free online gaming. Look at the failure of Motorcity Online. EA is not likely to try that again. They may be slow getting the message, but they are getting it. "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:h8Sva.100$[email hidden]... << This leads me to believe long term EA wants a gaming service of sorts.

Yeah, remember what they had promised for NT2003... most of the interesting features never made to the PC version... only the console ones. -- Philippe "Philster" Sergerie "William Bradshaw" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Ed Solheim wrote: > > And a whopping 16 player multiplayer code! WOW! > > > > OH - Come on EA! GPL had 20 players - and that was *5* [five!] years ago! > > > > Like I've said to others... if you as a bare minimum can't even match that - > > you're not even trying. > > > > "Easy to Connect Network and Online Play: Revamped system allows up to 16 > > competitors to easily connect via LAN or online to battle in single race > > mode. With **broadband**, up to 16 players can connect with text chat and > > matchmaking by GameSpy" > > > > -- > > ed_ > > > > I think everyone is well aware of the crap netcode that befalls ISI. So, > I'm sure no one is expecting the excellent netcode that Papy has in > their sims. Honestly, I'm not sure /what/ their hang up is in that area. > > Sure, it's horrible for the online players, but at least they're > attempting to make a good simulation for us folks without broadband to > enjoy online play. I'm glad they're trying to make the single player > experience better than anything Papy ever attempted, too (aka Season > Mode vs. proposed Career Mode). > > With Papyrus out the door for god knows how long, EA will be the big > sh*t in the NASCAR PC sim market (unless NASCAR Heat: Dirt to Daytona > comes onto the PC *wink wink*). On that note, they better not screw up. > My advice to 'em: listen to the ideas of the people who are going to buy > your software. > > -Will >

I have been doing the multiplayer thing for years in the shooter world and I'm fed up with the jackasses that I run into online. From what I hear online racing sounds even worse, unless you have time for a league, which I don't. To me going back to a world without the net means going back to a world without whiny smartass foul mouthed teenagers who are badly in need of a good whooping. "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Well, that is what my "problem" is then - I have to have multiplayer.. > The point of singel player mode gamin died for me "the minute" Iexperienced

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> "Hawaii" for the first time.. > > To me going back to "SP" equals that of going back to a world without the > net - now that you've used and experinced it. > > -- > ed_ >

>>Vertex Damage Effects: In the improved damage model, every impact isunique as individual car damage models are rendered on the fly.<< Something I wish Papy had put in years ago... We'll see... I sure hope they clean up the bizarre controller configuration. You don't need 3 damned screens of confusing options just to configure a controller! Larry