LFS - any good?

So, is Live For Speed any good? Is it going to be possible to bypass the points system and race in a specific class of car? Are they going to be providing any real cars (GT-40's, Porsche 917's, etc) besides the toy cars that will be included in the first release?

"John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> So, is Live For Speed any good? > > Is it going to be possible to bypass the points system and race in a > specific class of car? > > Are they going to be providing any real cars (GT-40's, Porsche 917's, > etc) besides the toy cars that will be included in the first release?

Opinions vary from "Gran Turrismo for the PC" to "Best sim ever" My opinion is in the former camp - and there's a very strange particularly non-typically sim type community surrounding it ( more akin to Half Life than GPL as it were). It's a very good product - no doubt - but not my bag. Doug

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> Opinions vary from "Gran Turrismo for the PC" to "Best sim ever" > > My opinion is in the former camp - and there's a very strange particularly > non-typically sim type community surrounding it ( more akin to Half Life > than GPL as it were). > > It's a very good product - no doubt - but not my bag.

Interesting. I would agree that the community is odd. I think the sim very good. The online code is really superb, how they manage it I dont know but you never get those incidents where one player sees an incident completely differently from the other guy because of the lag. As for the question on bypassing the points system, no, you cant get the faster cars until you get some points, however it's ridiculously easy to get enough, and many (inluding me) still race the F despite having thousands of credits. steve

Agreed.. It's a strange game when you really think about it. Their forum is miles different than RAS or almost any other forum on racesimcentral. I can't understand why, but the game seems to really appeal to the younger crowd, people who haven't really been into sim racing, and people who I'd expect would be happy with arcade-style physics. Don't get me wrong, a lot of hardcore sim people play the game too. Maybe companies putting out stuff like Pro Race Driver have it all wrong, maybe people -DO- want a little more realism. Or maybe a lot of people just liked the idea of a free game with killer netcode and the ability for anyone to easily make a skin for their car. The opinions of "Gran Turismo for PC" and "Best Sim Ever" in my opinion are both great comments towards the game. I love the idea of Turismo, just because of all the wonderfully modelled real life cars that vary from little cars to monsters, and on and off road. If someone gave Turismo real good physics (although I'm not one to knock it's physics, since the cars look to be moving real (wish I could say that about CMR3) and you can't tell if it's accurate using a joypad anyways), I think they'd have a real winner, and that does seem like what LFS is trying to do. Unfortunately, none of the cars are real cars, and I think the graphics are a little sub-par. It obviously isn't going to have the scope of Turismo, and it's probably not going to be the best sim ever. Which leaves it somewhere in the middle... but a vary cool game, and quite impressive coming from 3 guys. I still want to see what the tracks (at least maps) and more of the new cars look like, and deep down I sort of hope they don't cater too much to the 'drifting' crowd in the forum and people that want NOS buttons on the cars, or like, lights underneath and stuff. Mike http://mikebeauchamp.com "Steve Rawlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > Opinions vary from "Gran Turrismo for the PC" to "Best sim ever" > > > > My opinion is in the former camp - and there's a very strangeparticularly > > non-typically sim type community surrounding it ( more akin to HalfLife

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> > than GPL as it were). > > > > It's a very good product - no doubt - but not my bag. > > Interesting. I would agree that the community is odd. I think the sim > very good. The online code is really superb, how they manage it I dont > know but you never get those incidents where one player sees an incident > completely differently from the other guy because of the lag. > > As for the question on bypassing the points system, no, you cant get > the faster cars until you get some points, however it's ridiculously > easy to get enough, and many (inluding me) still race the F despite > having thousands of credits. > > steve >

Mike Beauchamp wrote:

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> Agreed.. > It's a strange game when you really think about it. Their forum is miles > different than RAS or almost any other forum on racesimcentral. I can't > understand why, but the game seems to really appeal to the younger crowd, > people who haven't really been into sim racing, and people who I'd expect > would be happy with arcade-style physics. Don't get me wrong, a lot of > hardcore sim people play the game too. > > Maybe companies putting out stuff like Pro Race Driver have it all wrong, > maybe people -DO- want a little more realism. Or maybe a lot of people just > liked the idea of a free game with killer netcode and the ability for anyone > to easily make a skin for their car.

In my opinion, the strenght behind LFS is the possibility to run so tight races within controllable speeds. Games like GPL is difficult, since there are almost no margins at all. In LFS it is possible to make a little mistake and still stay on the road, due to the low speeds. It gets more difficult for the turbo car though... -- /S

> It's a strange game when you really think about it. Their forum is miles > different than RAS or almost any other forum on racesimcentral. I can't > understand why, but the game seems to really appeal to the younger crowd, > people who haven't really been into sim racing, and people who I'd expect > would be happy with arcade-style physics. I suspect this might have something to do with the price. When they start charging we might see the average age move up. > that does seem like what LFS is trying to do. Unfortunately, none of the > cars are real cars, and I think the graphics are a little sub-par. I agree that the lack of real cars will be an issue, assuming that they dont manage to do a deal with somebody. The graphics are less of an issue. You're right, they're not great, but that doesnt seem to have done GPL any harm. steve (aka Trip in LFS)

"John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> So, is Live For Speed any good? > > Is it going to be possible to bypass the points system and race in a > specific class of car? > > Are they going to be providing any real cars (GT-40's, Porsche 917's, > etc) besides the toy cars that will be included in the first release?

Haven't tried it online in quite a few versions since the sound was hosed with my Audigy (surprise!), but the online code was great when I did; real door-rubbin' fun. Looked like a bunch of BTCC maniacs out there. But just as there is a difference between the GPL and Nascar communities, the LFS crowd has a different slant, and includes some folks you don't run into in the "normal" sim circles. For instance, the whole "drifting" thing is lost on me, but then I'm a bit long in the tooth for that anyway. ;-) The FWD cars are indeed bog-slow, but that's part of the appeal; the racing is close ala FD/F3 in GPL. And getting enough points for the Turbo is easy; just load up some AI on Pro and spank them about 4/5 times. As for "real" cars, we'll see when they show up. But they were showing a stealthy black F3000 in some of the screenshots on BHMS. SB

I'll over my take on this, as I sit in both "camps". First up, I love realistic Sims. I've been into real world motorsports for 20 years (and thus am also no longer of the younger generation :-), and was a rally driver for many years. GPL, LFS and Rally Trophy are my favourite racing games/sims. I enjoy disiplined, clean, racing. Flipping the coin - I can also relate the LFS scene, and understand where the support comes from. Oh yes, I also love drifting! LFS has a very broad appeal. On one hand you have the top SIM teams like redline racing running LFS races. You also have social level racing with slower times, but still reasonably clean racing, but a lot of chit chat and hooning around between races. You also have the drifters - this is an art, and sub-culture within itself. I'm not into (too old?) the customised skins that people takes days to create, so I'm not really one of the "in" people with the drifters, but I just love getting the car sideways. Its like rallying on tarmac, and requires a very high skill level. If you wish to understand the sub-culture of drifting, try to find one of the Japanese "anime" series about the drifting sub-culture. In these animated episodes, there is an incredible amount of accurate technical detail about the drift racing. For instance, there is regular commentry (thinking out loud) from one of a pair of racers commenting on the mistakes of the other driver, such as too much attitude (oversteer) affecting the speed out of the corners. More importantly, there is the psychological side of the culture. Pride is everything. Back to LFS - being able to do a perfect drifting lap gives a huge adreniline rush - its better than when I won my first GPL race. Younger people can relate to the cars and whole scene very easily. The cars are the type that the 16-25s can afford to buy and hot up in the real world. The virtual world of LFS is excellent - you can chat all the time, become a passenger in some else's car, or even take someone else's car for a "test drive" with their permission. This will let you test their car with all the personalised settings. This provides a fantastic, social, online world. Sort of like ICQ on speed (pun intended). As someone else mentioned, it is possible to hop into a LFS car for the first time and at least compete a lap without spinning. This is what has drawn many people in that didn't have the disipline or prior real world driving histing to master GPL. However, driving the cars fast requires as much practice and skill as with GPL. Also, many younger people are put off by the perceived snobbiness of the GPL online scene. Let's face it, GT stripes and custom mag wheels don't go down too well on the F1 GPL cars. Also, the online racing environment is very different - you don't have the social chit chat whilst racing. You might now ask the question of how I can cope with chat messages during a serious race? I don't. When I'm racing seriously, I can turn the messaging off - or more likely there is no need as there is hardly any during the serious racing. Like I said earlier - there is a very broad spectrum of racing with LFS. Finally, the physics are stunningly accurate. They've even got real time tyre deformation moddled - you can see it when you run low tyre pressures. Regards, Tim

Oh yeah, totally. I love LFS for doing a little bit of bumping in the FWD car, and having nobody spin out and die :) Mike http://mikebeauchamp.com "Stefan Larsson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:b9thmg$kb4$[email hidden]... > Mike Beauchamp wrote: > > > Agreed.. > > It's a strange game when you really think about it. Their forum is miles > > different than RAS or almost any other forum on racesimcentral. I can't > > understand why, but the game seems to really appeal to the youngercrowd, > > people who haven't really been into sim racing, and people who I'dexpect > > would be happy with arcade-style physics. Don't get me wrong, a lot of > > hardcore sim people play the game too. > > > > Maybe companies putting out stuff like Pro Race Driver have it allwrong, > > maybe people -DO- want a little more realism. Or maybe a lot of peoplejust > > liked the idea of a free game with killer netcode and the ability foranyone

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> > to easily make a skin for their car. > > In my opinion, the strenght behind LFS is the possibility to run so > tight races within controllable speeds. Games like GPL is difficult, > since there are almost no margins at all. In LFS it is possible to make > a little mistake and still stay on the road, due to the low speeds. > It gets more difficult for the turbo car though... > > -- > /S >

On Wed, 14 May 2003 19:39:22 +0100, "Tim Epstein" <[email hidden]> wrote: >I'll over my take on this, as I sit in both "camps". >[SNIP] > >Like I said earlier - there is a very broad spectrum of racing with LFS. > >Finally, the physics are stunningly accurate. They've even got real time >tyre deformation moddled - you can see it when you run low tyre pressures. >I totaly aggre :) I should had that , because u can change skin, wheel rim, and there'll be a drag strip in S1 release, ther's 'Fast and Furious' community on LFS. I dont like drag, but surely this game drag a lot of different kind of racers :D cheers, Sebastien TIXIER - Game Developer Dynamics and Car Physics http://www.eden-studios.fr GPLRank Normal:-44.24 Monster:-124.44 LFS GTI 1:35:56 LFS GT 1:36:18 LFS GT TURBO 1:28:26

Maybe I don't understand drag racing, or street racing. But, having it in LFS makes no sense ot me, and I can't understand why people are going nuts about it in the forum. You got people in IDENTICAL cars, using joypads, keyboard and wheels.. automatic transmissions, no clutches.. or manual transmissions and no clutch. You may as well just end the race as soon as whoever hits the gas pedal first. I certainly wouldn't have wasted time implementing that, but I guess they gotta keep customers happy.. Mike http://mikebeauchamp.com "Sebastien Tixier" <stixier@wanadoo[NO_SPAM].fr> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Wed, 14 May 2003 19:39:22 +0100, "Tim Epstein" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >I'll over my take on this, as I sit in both "camps". > > > [SNIP] > > > >Like I said earlier - there is a very broad spectrum of racing with LFS. > > > >Finally, the physics are stunningly accurate. They've even got real time > >tyre deformation moddled - you can see it when you run low tyre

pressures.

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> > > I totaly aggre :) > > I should had that , because u can change skin, wheel rim, and there'll > be a drag strip in S1 release, ther's 'Fast and Furious' community on > LFS. I dont like drag, but surely this game drag a lot of different > kind of racers :D > > cheers, > > Sebastien TIXIER - Game Developer > Dynamics and Car Physics > http://www.eden-studios.fr > GPLRank Normal:-44.24 Monster:-124.44 > LFS GTI 1:35:56 > LFS GT 1:36:18 > LFS GT TURBO 1:28:26 >

"Mike Beauchamp" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:FwGwa.20854$[email hidden]...

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> Maybe I don't understand drag racing, or street racing. But, having it in > LFS makes no sense ot me, and I can't understand why people are going nuts > about it in the forum. > > You got people in IDENTICAL cars, using joypads, keyboard and wheels.. > automatic transmissions, no clutches.. or manual transmissions and no > clutch.

There's still the setup tweaking that can make a difference... and shifting points... and launch technique... IMO identical cars just make it more interesting. - JKo -

> You may as well just end the race as soon as whoever hits the gas pedal > first. I certainly wouldn't have wasted time implementing that, but I guess > they gotta keep customers happy.. I dont do drag racing but my starts have definitely improved. I have a wheel & pedals and the right about of throttle applied over the first few seconds prevents wheelspin and keeps the revs a max torque. It's definitely a skill. Just not, in my opinion, a very interesting one. steve

Yeah, I guess I totally forgot about the setups.. Mike http://mikebeauchamp.com "JKo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:waJwa.2867$[email hidden]... > "Mike Beauchamp" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:FwGwa.20854$[email hidden]... > > Maybe I don't understand drag racing, or street racing. But, having itin > > LFS makes no sense ot me, and I can't understand why people are goingnuts

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> > about it in the forum. > > > > You got people in IDENTICAL cars, using joypads, keyboard and wheels.. > > automatic transmissions, no clutches.. or manual transmissions and no > > clutch. > > There's still the setup tweaking that can make a difference... and

shifting > points... and launch technique... IMO identical cars just make it more > interesting. > > - JKo - > >

I think it's a great Sim. Kind of like a modern day SCGT. Larry "John Simmons" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> So, is Live For Speed any good? > > Is it going to be possible to bypass the points system and race in a > specific class of car? > > Are they going to be providing any real cars (GT-40's, Porsche 917's, > etc) besides the toy cars that will be included in the first release? >