iRacing has messed with my definition of "far too expensive" so I am tempted by the
idea of buying a PS3 just for GT5 and another Ring experience (among many others).
So far I've seen quite a lot of comments but there's a really confusing mixture of
"it suxs" and "it feels great!"
There do seem to be some people finding the driving experience and FFB with a G25
quite satisfying (in some of the cars anyway), which is intriguing. But as there's
no other reason for me to buy a PS3 I really need some sense slapping into me.
Feel free to slap away. :-)
Andrew McP
Is Gran Turismo 5 on the PS3 worth buying?
Andrew MacPherson asked whether to buy a PS3 for Gran Turismo 5. Owners described impressive graphics and the Nordschleife but weak AI that follows the racing line regardless of other cars, a damage model locked behind levels and tedious unlockables. Andrew eventually bought one and found the force feedback excellent once he found the right setting.
Automated summary.
Andrew - considering that iRacing is $99 per year and usually comes
with a bunch of iRacing dollars to buy extra cars or tracks (it's a
$30 credit right now) and a PS3 and an game is close to $300... you
make me wonder what you smoke....
:-)
GR
Quoted text (13 lines)
>On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 07:40 +0000 (GMT Standard Time), [email hidden] (Andrew MacPherson) wrote: >iRacing has messed with my definition of "far too expensive" so I am tempted by the >idea of buying a PS3 just for GT5 and another Ring experience (among many others). >So far I've seen quite a lot of comments but there's a really confusing mixture of >"it suxs" and "it feels great!" > >There do seem to be some people finding the driving experience and FFB with a G25 >quite satisfying (in some of the cars anyway), which is intriguing. But as there's >no other reason for me to buy a PS3 I really need some sense slapping into me. > >Feel free to slap away. :-) > >Andrew McPOn Sat, 27 Nov 2010 07:40 +0000 (GMT Standard Time),
[email hidden] (Andrew MacPherson) wrote:
The people saying its great are speaking from lack of experience.
There simply are no simulators for consoles, so GT5 for the PS3 and
Forza for the XBox appear great by default. If your typical driving
experience was Need For Speed Hot Pursuit and Burnout Paradise, you'd
think GT5 was a realistic simulator, too.
I'll be honest and admit that I haven't played the current version,
but I do have a PS3 and spent a few hours careening off walls and
other cars to victory in GT5 Prolouge.
I'm also going to wind up with it because I named it as Christmas
present idea to my wife when I was drawing a blank, but I'm sure even
with the improvements since Prologue its going to feel like a totally
generic/sanitized experience after rFactor and Live For Speed.
If you can enjoy the PS3 for other games and the Blu Ray player, its
not a horrible thing, but if you're going to spend all that for what
you think is a great simulator I expect you're going to be pretty
disappointed.
Quoted text (12 lines)
>iRacing has messed with my definition of "far too expensive" so I am tempted by the >idea of buying a PS3 just for GT5 and another Ring experience (among many others). >So far I've seen quite a lot of comments but there's a really confusing mixture of >"it suxs" and "it feels great!" > >There do seem to be some people finding the driving experience and FFB with a G25 >quite satisfying (in some of the cars anyway), which is intriguing. But as there's >no other reason for me to buy a PS3 I really need some sense slapping into me. > >Feel free to slap away. :-) > >Andrew McP[email hidden] (Tim O) wrote:
> The people saying its great are speaking from lack of experience.
There are some folk on iRacing saying it's pretty satisfying.. others saying it's
cr*p. That's a bit puzzling. But then this genre, where so much is down to a
cocktail of personal preference and hardware, has always been a bit like that. One
man's meat is another man's murder.
One thing which particularly intrigues me though are the (iRacing based) comments
about the AI. Some are saying it's terrible, many that it's on a par with most
other sim AI... ie not perfect, but acceptable.
That leads me to think about why the quality of the driving on iRacing can be so
variable. Perhaps those with a sim background are used to taking evasive action to
avoid weak AI, and therefore better able to deal with the problems caused by
erratic real drivers? And there are certainly plenty of those on iRacing, as well
as plenty of decent drivers.
Maybe that's why I've always found it easy to keep my SR up, because I am *always*
expecting the guy in front to do something stupid. :-)
> but if you're going to spend all that for what you think is a
> great simulator I expect you're going to be pretty disappointed.
Well, I've spent roughly $750 at iRacing and ended up, overall, pretty disappointed.
Every time something great comes along (like the MX-5) it's counterbalanced by an
annoyance (like the MX-5 only racing at Lime Rock or Laguna). So if I end up
spending another $400 (allowing for the exchange rate) on a PS3+GT5 at least I'll
be able to sell the PS3 afterwards for at least 50%.
There's no second-hand market on iRacing... though I've always felt that this would
be a great way of spreading out the participation on the service. Unpopular cars
would become cheap, and cheap cars would get bought simply because they're cheap,
and therefore participation in those series goes up. :-)
Anyway, thanks for your thoughts on GT5. As ever, being patient will probably pay
dividends. There are plenty of planned updated for GT%, from what I read, and I
have until the end of January to line up things to fill the gap in my schedule left
by iRacing. By then there may be some kind of rF2 release, which ought to keep us
all busy (if only arguing ;-) for a while. I remain sceptical about that though. It
doesn't "feel" like it's ready to me.
Andrew McP
On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 05:57 +0000 (GMT Standard Time),
[email hidden] (Andrew MacPherson) wrote:
Regarding the AI... There is good there, they run the proper racing
line and also get involved in accidents all by themselves.
Here is the bad thing about the AI: They run the proper racing line.
Wait, thats the same as the good right?
Well, yes and no. The AI is so structured that it feels lifeless and
generic. Most of the accidents occur when faster cars try to occupy
the same line. They're running the exact same lines at different
speeds and don't really seem to "see" each other. When you think about
that robotic behavior it all starts making sense, lifting the veil of
realism and exposing its mannequins face.
Once you start getting skeptical, it snowballs. You will then find
that many of the Challenges involve not hitting things.
This seems like good common sense, but its really only done to cover
for two weaknesses... The totally lacking damage model and the fact
that without the "no touch" limitation its very easy to careen and
bash your way to victory.
The true GT5 apologists always react the same when you present them
with these hard truths... "You're not supposed to drive that way".
Well yea, but its a blinders mentality to me. As someone who has
played sims since Indy 500: The Simulation by Papyrus, if I DO drive
that way, I want my car to be a steaming, immovable hunk by the side
of the road.
Here is an example of where it falls apart during a race... I make a
clean but tight pass on the AI in a Challenge. Since the AI is mostly
oblivious to me, it simply rams me. My pass was clean, and this
brake-check in many sims would either result in the AI braking, or
hitting you but the race continuing if the damage was light and you
didn't get spun.
In GT5, thats a disqualification. You didn't even hit the AI, it hit
you. YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO DRIVE THAT WAY!
Actually, now I'm hoping you buy it, because I'd love to read your
thoughts on it.
Quoted text (44 lines)
>[email hidden] (Tim O) wrote: > >> The people saying its great are speaking from lack of experience. > >There are some folk on iRacing saying it's pretty satisfying.. others saying it's >cr*p. That's a bit puzzling. But then this genre, where so much is down to a >cocktail of personal preference and hardware, has always been a bit like that. One >man's meat is another man's murder. > >One thing which particularly intrigues me though are the (iRacing based) comments >about the AI. Some are saying it's terrible, many that it's on a par with most >other sim AI... ie not perfect, but acceptable. > >That leads me to think about why the quality of the driving on iRacing can be so >variable. Perhaps those with a sim background are used to taking evasive action to >avoid weak AI, and therefore better able to deal with the problems caused by >erratic real drivers? And there are certainly plenty of those on iRacing, as well >as plenty of decent drivers. > >Maybe that's why I've always found it easy to keep my SR up, because I am *always* >expecting the guy in front to do something stupid. :-) > >> but if you're going to spend all that for what you think is a >> great simulator I expect you're going to be pretty disappointed. > >Well, I've spent roughly $750 at iRacing and ended up, overall, pretty disappointed. >Every time something great comes along (like the MX-5) it's counterbalanced by an >annoyance (like the MX-5 only racing at Lime Rock or Laguna). So if I end up >spending another $400 (allowing for the exchange rate) on a PS3+GT5 at least I'll >be able to sell the PS3 afterwards for at least 50%. > >There's no second-hand market on iRacing... though I've always felt that this would >be a great way of spreading out the participation on the service. Unpopular cars >would become cheap, and cheap cars would get bought simply because they're cheap, >and therefore participation in those series goes up. :-) > >Anyway, thanks for your thoughts on GT5. As ever, being patient will probably pay >dividends. There are plenty of planned updated for GT%, from what I read, and I >have until the end of January to line up things to fill the gap in my schedule left >by iRacing. By then there may be some kind of rF2 release, which ought to keep us >all busy (if only arguing ;-) for a while. I remain sceptical about that though. It >doesn't "feel" like it's ready to me. > >Andrew McPIn article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...
I read elsewhere that there is a 'realistic' damage model, but you have
to progress to about level 40 before it is implemented.
--
Pete Ives
Remove All_stRESS before sending me an email
Quoted text (22 lines)
> > Regarding the AI... There is good there, they run the proper racing > line and also get involved in accidents all by themselves. > > Here is the bad thing about the AI: They run the proper racing line. > Wait, thats the same as the good right? > > Well, yes and no. The AI is so structured that it feels lifeless and > generic. Most of the accidents occur when faster cars try to occupy > the same line. They're running the exact same lines at different > speeds and don't really seem to "see" each other. When you think about > that robotic behavior it all starts making sense, lifting the veil of > realism and exposing its mannequins face. > > Once you start getting skeptical, it snowballs. You will then find > that many of the Challenges involve not hitting things. > > This seems like good common sense, but its really only done to cover > for two weaknesses... The totally lacking damage model and the fact > that without the "no touch" limitation its very easy to careen and > bash your way to victory. >On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 14:32:23 -0000, Peter
<[email hidden]> wrote:
Thats frigging horrible if its true. Unlockables is something I didn't
even get into and its another pain in the ass with the first version
of the game (Prologue). I was running races I had already completed
repeatedly to amass cash and buy cars for other challenges.
That is actually one of the things that led to me burning out on the
game. Initially, you acquire stuff pretty fast, but it tapers off and
you have to grind and grind at stuff you've already done to buy the
expensive cars for other events. Again, thats a completely console-y,
non simulation type thing.
Quoted text (27 lines)
>In article <[email hidden]>, >[email hidden] says... >> >> Regarding the AI... There is good there, they run the proper racing >> line and also get involved in accidents all by themselves. >> >> Here is the bad thing about the AI: They run the proper racing line. >> Wait, thats the same as the good right? >> >> Well, yes and no. The AI is so structured that it feels lifeless and >> generic. Most of the accidents occur when faster cars try to occupy >> the same line. They're running the exact same lines at different >> speeds and don't really seem to "see" each other. When you think about >> that robotic behavior it all starts making sense, lifting the veil of >> realism and exposing its mannequins face. >> >> Once you start getting skeptical, it snowballs. You will then find >> that many of the Challenges involve not hitting things. >> >> This seems like good common sense, but its really only done to cover >> for two weaknesses... The totally lacking damage model and the fact >> that without the "no touch" limitation its very easy to careen and >> bash your way to victory. >> > >I read elsewhere that there is a 'realistic' damage model, but you have >to progress to about level 40 before it is implemented.On Nov 29, 11:53 pm, Tim O <[email hidden]> wrote:
I recall someone saying about Toca3 that the AI were too aggressive.
It was really just that they would only follow the racing line and
wouldn't alter speed or change their line to get around other cars
(like you say about GT5). To me this is just lazy programming and as
you say makes you feel like you're racing against robots. AI should be
INTELLIGENT. It might take a lot of time and work to make them seem
human but it makes racing against them so much more enjoyable.
Regards,
Mike.
Quoted text (8 lines)
> On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 05:57 +0000 (GMT Standard Time), > >The AI is so structured that it feels lifeless and >generic. Most of the accidents occur when faster cars try to occupy >the same line. They're running the exact same lines at different >speeds and don't really seem to "see" each other. When you think about >that robotic behavior it all starts making sense, lifting the veil of >realism and exposing its mannequins face. On 27/11/2010 07:40, Andrew MacPherson wrote:
As a long time "proper" sim fan (mostly pc racing sims) I am very much
enjoying GT5 on the PS3.
You have to take it for what it is, eg: a console based racing game, and
once accepted, simply enjoy what it does.
Graphics are great, the premier car models are simply stunning, watching
replays is quite literally like watching a replay of a real race. Photo
realistic (almost) lighting, shadows, details, etc. (10 out of 10)
Audio is also good with each car being sampled and surround sound gives
good effects.(8/10)
Car handling is perfectly fine considering this is a console game, cars
rise and fall with acceleration, braking, etc, cars can be slid (power
slides or pendulum turns when rallying, etc) car physics seem perfectly
acceptable to me. Different models have different handling to suit.
Rumbles through the controller help with feedback, but a controller is
not as realistic as a wheel. (8/10)
NB: I am using the standard PS3 controller with GT5, if racing on my pc
I would of course be using a wheel and pedals, so that takes something
away from the experience for me, and no matter how hard I try, my
partner simply will not allow me to have a cockpit setup in the main
lliving room, so it has to stay in the study with the pc! Maybe I'll
move the PS3 into the study at some point.... BTW I've read on-line that
using a wheel and pedals with GT5 is pretty good.
Damage modelling is ok, but is only used on the premium model cars.
Doesn't seem to affect the cars handling too much? (6/10)
AI are ok, no worse or better than any other racing game / sim I have
tried (eg; most of them). They do tend to stick to the racing line, they
can crash into you, they sometimes have crashes amongst them selves.
They sometimes do stupid things. But hey, thats racing and its also what
humans do....(7/10)
Car variety is good. The loudly proclaim over 1000 cars, but remember
that often (eg: Nissan Skyline, etc) can have upwards of 20 different
models for the same car, so in reality I estimate there are probably
around a few hundred (which is still very good).Car handling varies with
each car and there are a huge variety to choose from and once bought (or
won) they can be tuned with parts, which do affect the handling, you can
start out with a fairly basic car, and once you have spent some more (in
game cash) and tuned the car to its max, you can end up with a race
winning beast. (9/10)
Tracks are good and there is a wide variety (Road, Tracks, Rally,
Hillclimbs, etc). Oh, and it has the Ring. Track detail is good, with a
godo feeling of the terrain, land rises and falls, off camber bends,
etc. Oh, and it has the Ring. Track surfaces also affect handling (which
is good) Try using a powerful rear wheel car on a dirt track, gravel or
snow and you will slide a lot, which is as it should be. Oh, and it has
the Ring. There are old Playstation favourite tracks, and some new ones
too. Did I mention the Nurburgring? Its awesome....(9/10)
Licenses are still here, which are a good way to learn the different
techniques, cars handling and tracks. Great for noobs, but also
challenging for hardcore racers. (8/10)
Races are also good with a nice variety, rallying, time trials, hill
climbs, road and track races, some short, some long (24 hour anyone?) As
I mentioned in the AI section, they can make the racing interesting, but
IMHO are no worse than a lot of other games / sims. (8/10)
Multiplay includes on-line racing (pretty good so far, have only tried
it a few times and it was fun) and there is also split screen option. (8/10)
Overall I like it. I already had PS3 and I'm not sure I would buy one
just to play GT5. But if you already have PS3 gt5 is a must have, it is
the definitive Playstation game. If you are thinking of getting an Xbox
360 or a PS3, I'd go for the PS3, it has the built in Blu Ray player
(great) and on-line play is free, plus I think there are more games to
choose from on the PS3 (not sure though?).
In closing, as a PS3 game I'd give GT5 around a 9/10). But as a
simulator I'd give it less (around 8 or possibly 8.5/10)
I know purist sim racers will probably disagree with my views, buts that
what they are, my views only. I love proper racing sims, but I'm quite
happy to have a blast on a console game too. Each to their own....
8-)
Peter G (PJGTECH)
Quoted text (12 lines)
> iRacing has messed with my definition of "far too expensive" so I am tempted by the > idea of buying a PS3 just for GT5 and another Ring experience (among many others). > So far I've seen quite a lot of comments but there's a really confusing mixture of > "it suxs" and "it feels great!" > > There do seem to be some people finding the driving experience and FFB with a G25 > quite satisfying (in some of the cars anyway), which is intriguing. But as there's > no other reason for me to buy a PS3 I really need some sense slapping into me. > > Feel free to slap away. :-) > > Andrew McP
"petergagg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:mtJJo.170653$[email hidden]...
About the cockpit in living room... Wonder what would happen if you tried
replacing your existing coffe table with this? Maybe she wont notice (lol).
Yeah, I think the price is rediculous, but I could build same out of plain
old plywood I think.
("gentlemen! start your coffee tables!") http://www.converttable.eu/
<snip>
Quoted text (46 lines)
> On 27/11/2010 07:40, Andrew MacPherson wrote: >> iRacing has messed with my definition of "far too expensive" so I am >> tempted by the >> idea of buying a PS3 just for GT5 and another Ring experience (among many >> others). >> So far I've seen quite a lot of comments but there's a really confusing >> mixture of >> "it suxs" and "it feels great!" >> >> There do seem to be some people finding the driving experience and FFB >> with a G25 >> quite satisfying (in some of the cars anyway), which is intriguing. But >> as there's >> no other reason for me to buy a PS3 I really need some sense slapping >> into me. >> >> Feel free to slap away. :-) >> >> Andrew McP > As a long time "proper" sim fan (mostly pc racing sims) I am very much > enjoying GT5 on the PS3. > > You have to take it for what it is, eg: a console based racing game, and > once accepted, simply enjoy what it does. > > Graphics are great, the premier car models are simply stunning, watching > replays is quite literally like watching a replay of a real race. Photo > realistic (almost) lighting, shadows, details, etc. (10 out of 10) > > Audio is also good with each car being sampled and surround sound gives > good effects.(8/10) > > Car handling is perfectly fine considering this is a console game, cars > rise and fall with acceleration, braking, etc, cars can be slid (power > slides or pendulum turns when rallying, etc) car physics seem perfectly > acceptable to me. Different models have different handling to suit. > Rumbles through the controller help with feedback, but a controller is not > as realistic as a wheel. (8/10) > > NB: I am using the standard PS3 controller with GT5, if racing on my pc I > would of course be using a wheel and pedals, so that takes something away > from the experience for me, and no matter how hard I try, my partner > simply will not allow me to have a cockpit setup in the main lliving room, > so it has to stay in the study with the pc! Maybe I'll move the PS3 into > the study at some point.... BTW I've read on-line that using a wheel and > pedals with GT5 is pretty good.
"petergagg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:mtJJo.170653$[email hidden]...
About the cockpit in living room... Wonder what would happen if you tried
replacing your existing coffe table with this? Maybe she wont notice (lol).
Yeah, I think the price is rediculous, but I could build same out of plain
old plywood I think.
("gentlemen! start your coffee tables!") http://www.converttable.eu/
<snip>
Quoted text (46 lines)
> On 27/11/2010 07:40, Andrew MacPherson wrote: >> iRacing has messed with my definition of "far too expensive" so I am >> tempted by the >> idea of buying a PS3 just for GT5 and another Ring experience (among many >> others). >> So far I've seen quite a lot of comments but there's a really confusing >> mixture of >> "it suxs" and "it feels great!" >> >> There do seem to be some people finding the driving experience and FFB >> with a G25 >> quite satisfying (in some of the cars anyway), which is intriguing. But >> as there's >> no other reason for me to buy a PS3 I really need some sense slapping >> into me. >> >> Feel free to slap away. :-) >> >> Andrew McP > As a long time "proper" sim fan (mostly pc racing sims) I am very much > enjoying GT5 on the PS3. > > You have to take it for what it is, eg: a console based racing game, and > once accepted, simply enjoy what it does. > > Graphics are great, the premier car models are simply stunning, watching > replays is quite literally like watching a replay of a real race. Photo > realistic (almost) lighting, shadows, details, etc. (10 out of 10) > > Audio is also good with each car being sampled and surround sound gives > good effects.(8/10) > > Car handling is perfectly fine considering this is a console game, cars > rise and fall with acceleration, braking, etc, cars can be slid (power > slides or pendulum turns when rallying, etc) car physics seem perfectly > acceptable to me. Different models have different handling to suit. > Rumbles through the controller help with feedback, but a controller is not > as realistic as a wheel. (8/10) > > NB: I am using the standard PS3 controller with GT5, if racing on my pc I > would of course be using a wheel and pedals, so that takes something away > from the experience for me, and no matter how hard I try, my partner > simply will not allow me to have a cockpit setup in the main lliving room, > so it has to stay in the study with the pc! Maybe I'll move the PS3 into > the study at some point.... BTW I've read on-line that using a wheel and > pedals with GT5 is pretty good.On Thu, 02 Dec 2010 09:18:24 +0000, petergagg wrote:
i have my logitech g25 wheel hooked up, andits so good on gt5, just plug it
in, feedback is phenominal, much better than rfactor
the real gt5 dissapointment is the track editor..
Quoted text (87 lines)
> On 27/11/2010 07:40, Andrew MacPherson wrote: >> [12 quoted lines suppressed] > As a long time "proper" sim fan (mostly pc racing sims) I am very much > enjoying GT5 on the PS3. > > You have to take it for what it is, eg: a console based racing game, and > once accepted, simply enjoy what it does. > > Graphics are great, the premier car models are simply stunning, watching > replays is quite literally like watching a replay of a real race. Photo > realistic (almost) lighting, shadows, details, etc. (10 out of 10) > > Audio is also good with each car being sampled and surround sound gives > good effects.(8/10) > > Car handling is perfectly fine considering this is a console game, cars > rise and fall with acceleration, braking, etc, cars can be slid (power > slides or pendulum turns when rallying, etc) car physics seem perfectly > acceptable to me. Different models have different handling to suit. > Rumbles through the controller help with feedback, but a controller is > not as realistic as a wheel. (8/10) > > NB: I am using the standard PS3 controller with GT5, if racing on my pc > I would of course be using a wheel and pedals, so that takes something > away from the experience for me, and no matter how hard I try, my > partner simply will not allow me to have a cockpit setup in the main > lliving room, so it has to stay in the study with the pc! Maybe I'll > move the PS3 into the study at some point.... BTW I've read on-line that > using a wheel and pedals with GT5 is pretty good. > > Damage modelling is ok, but is only used on the premium model cars. > Doesn't seem to affect the cars handling too much? (6/10) > > AI are ok, no worse or better than any other racing game / sim I have > tried (eg; most of them). They do tend to stick to the racing line, they > can crash into you, they sometimes have crashes amongst them selves. > They sometimes do stupid things. But hey, thats racing and its also what > humans do....(7/10) > > Car variety is good. The loudly proclaim over 1000 cars, but remember > that often (eg: Nissan Skyline, etc) can have upwards of 20 different > models for the same car, so in reality I estimate there are probably > around a few hundred (which is still very good).Car handling varies with > each car and there are a huge variety to choose from and once bought (or > won) they can be tuned with parts, which do affect the handling, you can > start out with a fairly basic car, and once you have spent some more (in > game cash) and tuned the car to its max, you can end up with a race > winning beast. (9/10) > > Tracks are good and there is a wide variety (Road, Tracks, Rally, > Hillclimbs, etc). Oh, and it has the Ring. Track detail is good, with a > godo feeling of the terrain, land rises and falls, off camber bends, > etc. Oh, and it has the Ring. Track surfaces also affect handling (which > is good) Try using a powerful rear wheel car on a dirt track, gravel or > snow and you will slide a lot, which is as it should be. Oh, and it has > the Ring. There are old Playstation favourite tracks, and some new ones > too. Did I mention the Nurburgring? Its awesome....(9/10) > > Licenses are still here, which are a good way to learn the different > techniques, cars handling and tracks. Great for noobs, but also > challenging for hardcore racers. (8/10) > > Races are also good with a nice variety, rallying, time trials, hill > climbs, road and track races, some short, some long (24 hour anyone?) As > I mentioned in the AI section, they can make the racing interesting, but > IMHO are no worse than a lot of other games / sims. (8/10) > > Multiplay includes on-line racing (pretty good so far, have only tried > it a few times and it was fun) and there is also split screen option. (8/10) > > Overall I like it. I already had PS3 and I'm not sure I would buy one > just to play GT5. But if you already have PS3 gt5 is a must have, it is > the definitive Playstation game. If you are thinking of getting an Xbox > 360 or a PS3, I'd go for the PS3, it has the built in Blu Ray player > (great) and on-line play is free, plus I think there are more games to > choose from on the PS3 (not sure though?). > > In closing, as a PS3 game I'd give GT5 around a 9/10). But as a > simulator I'd give it less (around 8 or possibly 8.5/10) > > I know purist sim racers will probably disagree with my views, buts that > what they are, my views only. I love proper racing sims, but I'm quite > happy to have a blast on a console game too. Each to their own.... > > 8-) > > Peter G (PJGTECH)[email hidden] (petergagg) wrote:
> You have to take it for what it is, eg: a console based racing
> game, and once accepted, simply enjoy what it does.
Thanks for your thoughts Peter, and nice to see you still lurking. I thought you'd
given the PC side of things up completely. :-)
> NB: I am using the standard PS3 controller with GT5
I nearly cracked yesterday and hit the buy button on a very good Amazon deal where
you get a 320Gb version for the price of a 120 when buying the GT5 bundle. But if I
do crack the next thing to get cracked will be the PS3 controller. I don't think
I'll ever want to use it for anything other than resale value. :-)
> AI are ok, no worse or better than any other racing game / sim I
> have tried (eg; most of them). They do tend to stick to the
> racing line, they can crash into you
That sounds very much like LFS. I enjoy that sim but stopped because online seems
to be populated by teenagers, and offline I was plagued by that annoying AI... I
was apparently invisible to them. However I suspect GT5 will be updated a bit more
often than LFS has been (recently) so there's hope that things will improve.
Either way, I find curiosity steadily getting the better of me. As with iRacing
content, I often end up buying things just because I get sick of wondering whether
I should buy it or not! Buyer's remorse is sometimes preferable to endless
dithering. And I'm probably overdue for a console experience. I've never had one of
any kind before (not unless the original Pong "console" on a B&W telly counts).
It'd help if ATI would hurry up and release the 69** series. Then I'd know how much
of this year's savings are going to disappear into a new vid card. If I end up
"saving" money and buying a cheap 5870 instead the PS3 will look a lot more
affordable.
> Did I mention the Nurburgring? Its awesome....(9/10)
Mmm.... 'Riiiing.</Homer>
Andrew McP
On Nov 30, 11:35 am, Tim O <[email hidden]> wrote:
This is my gripe with GT5 in a nutshell. I come from PC-based sims
like Papyrus' Nascar series and rFactor and having to spend hours
"mastering" a chicane in under a ridiculous time limit just to move on
to the next level in the game or get an unlockable is inexcusable. I
paid for the content...I'd like to enjoy it without having to master
the ridiculously high learning curve of some of the licenses and
special events on GT5. Getting gold on some events is simply near
impossible...and I know what the right line is at Monza.
Quoted text (9 lines)
> On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 14:32:23 -0000, Peter > > That is actually one of the things that led to me burning out on the > game. Initially, you acquire stuff pretty fast, but it tapers off and > you have to grind and grind at stuff you've already done to buy the > expensive cars for other events. Again, thats a completely console-y, > non simulation type thing.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -On 05/12/2010 08:25, Andrew MacPherson wrote:
> [email hidden] (petergagg) wrote:
> Thanks for your thoughts Peter, and nice to see you still lurking. I thought you'd
> given the PC side of things up completely. :-)
Yep, still lurking, and still dabble with PC racing (mainly GTR2 and
v.occasionaly I fire up GPL, godfather of all modern sims) 8-)
I do tend to use the PS3 more than the PC for gaming now tho, COD Modern
Warfare 2 and Black Ops are strangely addictive....as well as GT5....
> I nearly cracked yesterday and hit the buy button on a very good Amazon deal where
> you get a 320Gb version for the price of a 120 when buying the GT5 bundle. But if I
> do crack the next thing to get cracked will be the PS3 controller. I don't think
> I'll ever want to use it for anything other than resale value. :-)
I bought the "slim" PS3 last Xmas (250Gb model) and its a good buy IMHO.
Great gaming, and good as a media server. If you have neither a PS3 or
an Xbox 360, I'd go for the PS3 simply cos it has the built in BluRay
player and there is no extra cost for on-line playing (unlike the Xbox)
and accessories tend to be a abit cheaper (eg: Move v Kinect)
8-)
Peter G (PJGTECH)
Just got GT5. I got a PS3 years ago for the Blu-ray and to add internet over
wifi to my TV rather than for games. In fact GT5 is only the second game
I've bought for the PS3.
It's a massive game experience that, unfortunately, seems to use it's
massiveness to hide that fact that the physics are weak, the sound is awful,
the controller setup up woeful and damage model almost nonexistent.
Ok, I, I've only tried the MX5 at Laguna and compared it directly with the
same on iRacing, an experience that has lest me wanting mote from GT5.
Hopefully GT5 will be more satisfying with the better cars - the MX5 doesn't
even have a cockpit view!
Verdict: Fantastic arcade experience, but a weak simulation.
"Andrew MacPherson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (19 lines)
> iRacing has messed with my definition of "far too expensive" so I am > tempted by the > idea of buying a PS3 just for GT5 and another Ring experience (among many > others). > So far I've seen quite a lot of comments but there's a really confusing > mixture of > "it suxs" and "it feels great!" > > There do seem to be some people finding the driving experience and FFB > with a G25 > quite satisfying (in some of the cars anyway), which is intriguing. But as > there's > no other reason for me to buy a PS3 I really need some sense slapping into > me. > > Feel free to slap away. :-) > > Andrew McP >
"PlowBoy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:id8e5s$i87$[email hidden]...
No bitch would ever tell me what I can and can't put in my living room.
Quoted text (55 lines)
> > "petergagg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:mtJJo.170653$[email hidden]... >> On 27/11/2010 07:40, Andrew MacPherson wrote: >>> iRacing has messed with my definition of "far too expensive" so I am >>> tempted by the >>> idea of buying a PS3 just for GT5 and another Ring experience (among >>> many others). >>> So far I've seen quite a lot of comments but there's a really confusing >>> mixture of >>> "it suxs" and "it feels great!" >>> >>> There do seem to be some people finding the driving experience and FFB >>> with a G25 >>> quite satisfying (in some of the cars anyway), which is intriguing. But >>> as there's >>> no other reason for me to buy a PS3 I really need some sense slapping >>> into me. >>> >>> Feel free to slap away. :-) >>> >>> Andrew McP >> As a long time "proper" sim fan (mostly pc racing sims) I am very much >> enjoying GT5 on the PS3. >> >> You have to take it for what it is, eg: a console based racing game, and >> once accepted, simply enjoy what it does. >> >> Graphics are great, the premier car models are simply stunning, watching >> replays is quite literally like watching a replay of a real race. Photo >> realistic (almost) lighting, shadows, details, etc. (10 out of 10) >> >> Audio is also good with each car being sampled and surround sound gives >> good effects.(8/10) >> >> Car handling is perfectly fine considering this is a console game, cars >> rise and fall with acceleration, braking, etc, cars can be slid (power >> slides or pendulum turns when rallying, etc) car physics seem perfectly >> acceptable to me. Different models have different handling to suit. >> Rumbles through the controller help with feedback, but a controller is >> not as realistic as a wheel. (8/10) >> >> NB: I am using the standard PS3 controller with GT5, if racing on my pc I >> would of course be using a wheel and pedals, so that takes something away >> from the experience for me, and no matter how hard I try, my partner >> simply will not allow me to have a cockpit setup in the main lliving >> room, so it has to stay in the study with the pc! Maybe I'll move the PS3 >> into the study at some point.... BTW I've read on-line that using a wheel >> and pedals with GT5 is pretty good. > > About the cockpit in living room... Wonder what would happen if you tried > replacing your existing coffe table with this? Maybe she wont notice > (lol). Yeah, I think the price is rediculous, but I could build same out > of plain old plywood I think. >
OK, it was inevitable that I was getting this for Christmas. I figured
I would post a follow-up to some of my original comments and how this
game compares the GT5 Prologue.
I've been busy due to the holidays, so I've only spent about 2 hours
on the game, spread across the license tests, campaign and arcade
modes. I probably logged 20+ hours in Prologue.
First, everything I said about the AI still seems to be relevant in
the final version. The AI run their race lines and the only time they
even acknowledge your existence is when they try to overtake.
The good thing about this is that they're at least predictable, the
bad is that it tends to make the single player racing feel rather
soul-less.
I played through the A and B spec license tests. Anyone who has played
Live For Speed or many others will find these familiar. They are tasks
like braking and hitting apex's that are also timed events and you get
a bronze, silver or gold cup depending on that time.
They start very simple then keep stacking the tasks to build on them,
usually winding up running a lap against AI. They are quick and fun,
though some seem really hard to get Gold medals on (I'm using regular
PS controller, not a wheel).
In the arcade and campaign modes, I've found that bumping and blocking
is still the order of the day for success. This to me is the main
weakness of the game. You always start mid pack, and the easiest way
to get to the front is to take advantage of the on-rails AI, bump and
squeeze through in the first turn, then block the cars that are faster
than you. Its total arcade tactics. The damage model seems negligible,
despite a 608 meg patch that reportedly adds to it. I didn't play it
before the patch, but all I can say is that there isn't much to it
after.
As much as I'm complaining, I am actually having a decent time with
the game. The sheer number of cars is pretty cool and they have some
varied events to play with them all. There are races for front wheel
drive only, different vintage cars and different vintage and country
or origin. I also gotta say that some of the sound is really cool. I
have it hooked up to my surround system and this game actually used
DTS for my by default. The ambient music, transitions and game itself
all make fantastic use of the rear channels.
The one downer to this is that most of the cars seem to have a very
synthesized engine sound. I read that they recorded a lot of actual
audio for the cars, but its not very evident on the ones I've played
so far.
The setup of my living room really doesn't afford me a place to
reasonably use a wheel/pedals. The one way around this would be to get
one of the metal framed racing seats and sit it there in front of the
TV. The family already have a closet full of plastic drums and
guitars, so storage of one of those just isn't feasible.
I say, if you already have a PS3 and enjoy arcade racers, this is
probably worth a shot. Don't buy a console and wheel just to play it.
The "simulator" hype still far exceeds the reality.
Tim
Totally agree.
"Tim O" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (60 lines)
> > OK, it was inevitable that I was getting this for Christmas. I figured > I would post a follow-up to some of my original comments and how this > game compares the GT5 Prologue. > > I've been busy due to the holidays, so I've only spent about 2 hours > on the game, spread across the license tests, campaign and arcade > modes. I probably logged 20+ hours in Prologue. > > First, everything I said about the AI still seems to be relevant in > the final version. The AI run their race lines and the only time they > even acknowledge your existence is when they try to overtake. > The good thing about this is that they're at least predictable, the > bad is that it tends to make the single player racing feel rather > soul-less. > > I played through the A and B spec license tests. Anyone who has played > Live For Speed or many others will find these familiar. They are tasks > like braking and hitting apex's that are also timed events and you get > a bronze, silver or gold cup depending on that time. > They start very simple then keep stacking the tasks to build on them, > usually winding up running a lap against AI. They are quick and fun, > though some seem really hard to get Gold medals on (I'm using regular > PS controller, not a wheel). > > In the arcade and campaign modes, I've found that bumping and blocking > is still the order of the day for success. This to me is the main > weakness of the game. You always start mid pack, and the easiest way > to get to the front is to take advantage of the on-rails AI, bump and > squeeze through in the first turn, then block the cars that are faster > than you. Its total arcade tactics. The damage model seems negligible, > despite a 608 meg patch that reportedly adds to it. I didn't play it > before the patch, but all I can say is that there isn't much to it > after. > > As much as I'm complaining, I am actually having a decent time with > the game. The sheer number of cars is pretty cool and they have some > varied events to play with them all. There are races for front wheel > drive only, different vintage cars and different vintage and country > or origin. I also gotta say that some of the sound is really cool. I > have it hooked up to my surround system and this game actually used > DTS for my by default. The ambient music, transitions and game itself > all make fantastic use of the rear channels. > > The one downer to this is that most of the cars seem to have a very > synthesized engine sound. I read that they recorded a lot of actual > audio for the cars, but its not very evident on the ones I've played > so far. > > The setup of my living room really doesn't afford me a place to > reasonably use a wheel/pedals. The one way around this would be to get > one of the metal framed racing seats and sit it there in front of the > TV. The family already have a closet full of plastic drums and > guitars, so storage of one of those just isn't feasible. > > I say, if you already have a PS3 and enjoy arcade racers, this is > probably worth a shot. Don't buy a console and wheel just to play it. > The "simulator" hype still far exceeds the reality. > > Tim[email hidden] (David G Fisher's Scrotum) wrote:
> Totally agree.
After a lot of dithering and indecision, I achieved critical "oh f*ck it!" mass
recently, and my PS3 came yesterday. And I totally agreed too until I hit the
Nordschleife for the first time in the AMG Challenge in an old Merc. Then I
genuinely stopped caring. This is, without doubt IMO, the best version of the 'Ring
to appear in electronic form so far. The track just looks right... the proportions
match those you expect from real world footage in a very, very immersive way.
Overall though, and after about four hours play, I think... well, I think I'll do a
random list.
1) GT5 is a *great* game. Initially I felt a bit overwhelmed by the menus, but it
soon starts to feel like home, and the various options all make for compelling
"just one more challenge" gameplay. The only weakness (as a game) is/are the load
times. I haven't been tempted to put an SSD in my PC so far (128Gb is what I want
but won't pay for yet) but as my PS3 will probably only be a GT5 machine (blueray,
schmooray) I could see a "cheap" 32/64Gb disk ending up in here.
2) GT5 *may* be a great sim, but it's sort of hidden... perhaps by the well crafted
learning curve designed for beginners.
There are times when it appears to be very sim-like... I put a wheel onto the grass
on the 'Ring and experienced one of the most realistic feeling spins I've ever had.
And things definitely feel better as you progress into the better cars. It reminds
me of NFS:Shift in that some cars made me frown and others just made me grin. It's
hard to tell though whether much of that is down to weedy beginner's cars.
For whatever reason, overall I've struggled to feel the kind of connection you feel
with cars in the best sims. At the moment I'd rate it -- in the right cars -- below
iRacing (a sim I feel totally connected to, but not at all satisfied by) and above
GTR Evo (a sim I've rarely felt connected in, but which can be very satisfying
against the AI). But at least in GT5 I've never, so far, had to wait 2 hours for a
race which only has four entrants. And of course the Ring experience has really
pulled my personal score up significantly.
3) I'm really enjoying the sound so far. Some engine sounds are a bit weak, others
stunning, but when you're overtaking the way the car sounds interact is very, very
good IMO.
4) This is my first console, and I'm enjoying the polished product that is the PS3.
I am not enjoying having even more cables on my three screen desk though... or
spending half an hour trying to work out why everything on my G25 worked except the
steering. I forgot my rats' nest of PC-related plugs was switched off, along with
the power to the G25.
Doh! :-)
5) More later in the week, no doubt.
Andrew McP (Andrew_McP, surprisingly enough, on PSN if I ever go online with da
massed yoof of da planet)
PS I discovered that my boss at work is a GT5 player. I've never ever discovered
another PC sim driver out there in the real world. Part of me is enjoying being a
bit more mainstream. :->
I'm glad you like it and I agree with pretty much everything you say,
particularly about the Ring.
I, too, just don't feel all that connected to what the car is doing, unlike
in the MX5 of iRacing, for example.
I could forgive GT5 all of its minor flaws if it only had a damage model
worth mentioning. This one aspect destroys the racing simulator side for me
but does leave a fun hotlapping game that I really enjoy.
"Andrew MacPherson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (90 lines)
> [email hidden] (David G Fisher's Scrotum) wrote: > >> Totally agree. > > After a lot of dithering and indecision, I achieved critical "oh f*ck it!" > mass > recently, and my PS3 came yesterday. And I totally agreed too until I hit > the > Nordschleife for the first time in the AMG Challenge in an old Merc. Then > I > genuinely stopped caring. This is, without doubt IMO, the best version of > the 'Ring > to appear in electronic form so far. The track just looks right... the > proportions > match those you expect from real world footage in a very, very immersive > way. > > Overall though, and after about four hours play, I think... well, I think > I'll do a > random list. > > 1) GT5 is a *great* game. Initially I felt a bit overwhelmed by the menus, > but it > soon starts to feel like home, and the various options all make for > compelling > "just one more challenge" gameplay. The only weakness (as a game) is/are > the load > times. I haven't been tempted to put an SSD in my PC so far (128Gb is what > I want > but won't pay for yet) but as my PS3 will probably only be a GT5 machine > (blueray, > schmooray) I could see a "cheap" 32/64Gb disk ending up in here. > > 2) GT5 *may* be a great sim, but it's sort of hidden... perhaps by the > well crafted > learning curve designed for beginners. > > There are times when it appears to be very sim-like... I put a wheel onto > the grass > on the 'Ring and experienced one of the most realistic feeling spins I've > ever had. > And things definitely feel better as you progress into the better cars. It > reminds > me of NFS:Shift in that some cars made me frown and others just made me > grin. It's > hard to tell though whether much of that is down to weedy beginner's cars. > > For whatever reason, overall I've struggled to feel the kind of connection > you feel > with cars in the best sims. At the moment I'd rate it -- in the right > cars -- below > iRacing (a sim I feel totally connected to, but not at all satisfied by) > and above > GTR Evo (a sim I've rarely felt connected in, but which can be very > satisfying > against the AI). But at least in GT5 I've never, so far, had to wait 2 > hours for a > race which only has four entrants. And of course the Ring experience has > really > pulled my personal score up significantly. > > 3) I'm really enjoying the sound so far. Some engine sounds are a bit > weak, others > stunning, but when you're overtaking the way the car sounds interact is > very, very > good IMO. > > 4) This is my first console, and I'm enjoying the polished product that is > the PS3. > I am not enjoying having even more cables on my three screen desk > though... or > spending half an hour trying to work out why everything on my G25 worked > except the > steering. I forgot my rats' nest of PC-related plugs was switched off, > along with > the power to the G25. > > Doh! :-) > > 5) More later in the week, no doubt. > > Andrew McP (Andrew_McP, surprisingly enough, on PSN if I ever go online > with da > massed yoof of da planet) > > PS I discovered that my boss at work is a GT5 player. I've never ever > discovered > another PC sim driver out there in the real world. Part of me is enjoying > being a > bit more mainstream. :->[email hidden] (David G Fisher's Scrotum) wrote:
> I, too, just don't feel all that connected to what the car is
> doing, unlike in the MX5 of iRacing, for example.
iRacing remains, for me, the most satisfying sim cockpit to sit in. But after 2.5
years I'm no closer to being satisfied by the service that great code is trapped in.
It's turned into much more of an addiction for me than a hobby. :-)
Which is why I've fought my way through the Spa release and a couple of offers to
stop spending and try to go cold turkey at the end of the month.
No doubt this will be as successful in the long term as all my other attempts to
find a way to make iRacing work for me. They'll probably announce a proper MX-5
series the day before my sub runs out and I'll be tempted back down the rabbit hole
again. :->
I had hope rF2 would have arrived by now to help ease the transition, but NKPro
should keep my serious sim head exercised for a while... especially if that "Xmas
update" turns up soonish.
> I could forgive GT5 all of its minor flaws if it only had a damage
> model worth mentioning.
This isn't a big problem for me. In iRacing I consider even a x1 a (personal)
defeat and always aspire to get no incidents at all in any race or even testing
session. So in GT5 if I make contact with anything I don't need visual or handling
damage because I'm harder on myself than any sim can be. Besides, the way the AI
drives in GT5 you'd never finish a race if there was significant damage. :-)
I did some more GT5 yesterday and met a few more frustrations. It's started to
remind me of my early days at iRacing, when whenever I try to join a race it tells
me I have to buy something. But that's ok. I just end up back at the Ring in my
Merc for a while. I can think of worse fates!
Andrew McP
On Sat, 1 Jan 2011 03:25 +0000 (GMT Standard Time),
[email hidden] (Andrew MacPherson) wrote:
[snip]
I stress out about racing clean in multiplayer racing sims/games,
nearly to the point where it can remove the fun for me. I'd probably
be a neurotic mess in iRacing.
When I'm playing something like GT5 offline and find that I can
exploit a weakness, I can't help but do it. I wind up taking advantage
of how the AI slows too much for the first corner, go in way too hot
then bounce off of them in the apex to keep me from going off the
track. This slows them down and makes me faster. Once I'm in front, I
just block as best I can. Its horrible, because its the perfect
example of doing everything the wrong way to great success.
You blame yourself for that behavior, I blame the game for letting me
get away with it, and further enabling, no, ENCOURAGING bad habits by
starting me mid-pack for every race regardless of my performance.
If it'd put me on the Pole for gold cupping every race, I wouldn't be
able to do that. But it does -and so do I.
Maybe it'd be different with a wheel. I'm a total ham fist with the
controller. I tried playing a couple first person shooters on the
consoles and hated the experience so bad compared to mouse and keys
that I can't even imagine why anyone would choose to play that way
short of pure ignorance. It feels like driving a tank. LOL.
If my old red-bodied Logitech MOMO would just break on its own, I
could probably justify getting the G27 that will work on the PC and
PS3... Then I'm back to trying to rig up some setup to play it on my
TV. The Playstation still pulls heaviest duty as a BluRay/Netflix
player, so the wife wouldn't be happy with it coming into the computer
room!
Where I'm gonna get screwed is when I finally work up the nerve to
race online. I'll try to race clean, be slow as hell and its going to
be an all-around awful experience. Will probably have a bunch of 15
year old creeps yelling "GET OUT OF THE WAY FAGGOT!" the whole race,
too.
In summation, these are all problems with the game, you see! LOL.
Tim
Quoted text (8 lines)
>> I could forgive GT5 all of its minor flaws if it only had a damage >> model worth mentioning. > >This isn't a big problem for me. In iRacing I consider even a x1 a (personal) >defeat and always aspire to get no incidents at all in any race or even testing >session. So in GT5 if I make contact with anything I don't need visual or handling >damage because I'm harder on myself than any sim can be. Besides, the way the AI >drives in GT5 you'd never finish a race if there was significant damage. :-)[email hidden] (Tim O) wrote:
> I stress out about racing clean in multiplayer racing sims/games,
> nearly to the point where it can remove the fun for me. I'd probably
> be a neurotic mess in iRacing.
Welcome to my world. ;-)
> Maybe it'd be different with a wheel. I'm a total ham fist
> with the controller.
I would never have bought the PS3 if my wheel didn't work with it. I really can't
imagine driving with a controller... though I guess with all the aids dialled up it
must be fairly pleasant otherwise so people people wouldn't do it.
> Where I'm gonna get screwed is when I finally work up the nerve
> to race online. I'll try to race clean, be slow as hell and its
> going to be an all-around awful experience. Will probably have
> a bunch of 15 year old creeps yelling "GET OUT OF THE WAY
> FAGGOT!" the whole race, too.
It can be like that in iRacing too. :-) Not often though, admittedly. But I know
exactly what you mean, and that's why I've always preferred racing AI to people.
Less stress, less drama, and I suppose much less rewarding too. But when you're as
slow as I tend to be the only rewards are in my imagination anyway. :->
Andrew McP
Quoted text (17 lines)
>On Sat, 01 Jan 2011 06:00:04 -0500, Tim O <[email hidden]> wrote: >I stress out about racing clean in multiplayer racing sims/games, >nearly to the point where it can remove the fun for me. I'd probably >be a neurotic mess in iRacing. >When I'm playing something like GT5 offline and find that I can >exploit a weakness, I can't help but do it. I wind up taking advantage >of how the AI slows too much for the first corner, go in way too hot >then bounce off of them in the apex to keep me from going off the >track. This slows them down and makes me faster. Once I'm in front, I >just block as best I can. Its horrible, because its the perfect >example of doing everything the wrong way to great success. >Where I'm gonna get screwed is when I finally work up the nerve to >race online. I'll try to race clean, be slow as hell and its going to >be an all-around awful experience. Will probably have a bunch of 15 >year old creeps yelling "GET OUT OF THE WAY FAGGOT!" the whole race, >too. >TimOn 1/2/2011 10:23 AM, GaryR wrote:
The close racing and rubbing without a major warp crash is already
available in the ARCA sim.Thats one of the major reasons I switched from 03.
Quoted text (38 lines)
>> On Sat, 01 Jan 2011 06:00:04 -0500, Tim O<[email hidden]> wrote: >> I stress out about racing clean in multiplayer racing sims/games, >> nearly to the point where it can remove the fun for me. I'd probably >> be a neurotic mess in iRacing. >> When I'm playing something like GT5 offline and find that I can >> exploit a weakness, I can't help but do it. I wind up taking advantage >> of how the AI slows too much for the first corner, go in way too hot >> then bounce off of them in the apex to keep me from going off the >> track. This slows them down and makes me faster. Once I'm in front, I >> just block as best I can. Its horrible, because its the perfect >> example of doing everything the wrong way to great success. >> Where I'm gonna get screwed is when I finally work up the nerve to >> race online. I'll try to race clean, be slow as hell and its going to >> be an all-around awful experience. Will probably have a bunch of 15 >> year old creeps yelling "GET OUT OF THE WAY FAGGOT!" the whole race, >> too. >> Tim > > Tim - You decribe how online racing has always been on any given day > on open servers for any race sim. It's always been the biggest reason > open, unrestricted servers usually suck. There is no penalty for > smashing your way to the front, chopping corners, and doing other > infantile things to "win". IMO iRacing, though certainly not perfect, > is the closest thing to real world you will get. On a real racetrack > with real cars we do everything in our power to avoid ANY contact, and > that's what iRacing dictates. As time goes on and the service > improves, i'm sure they will tweak it so minor rubbing isn't an issue > (may even be there now, i've been away) as it isn't in most RL series. > The tracks are darn near perfect, the damage model is very good and > always improving, the onlinecode is the best available, etc. etc. The > only reason not to play is funds, but for $150 per year or so (that > includes buying a couple extra cars and tracks) I don't see cost as an > issue.. > > No vested interest in iRacing though I do have a decal on my 911 race > car.. :-) > > GROn Sun, 02 Jan 2011 10:23:18 -0500, GaryR <[email hidden]>
wrote:
2 years ago or so in Live For Speed is probably the last time I spent
any substantial time in a racing sim. That was actually a pretty
polite group once you found the regulars.
Might subscribe to iRacing in the future. Subscription seems
reasonable and fee's of any type probably help to keep out the rabble.
Lack of time is the main hurdle for me on anything by-the-month.
I actually entered the hop lapping online contest in GT5 today. I'm
abysmally slow with the gamepad, but I had a lot of fun with it. This
really made me want to snag a G27. I can always put the old MOMO on
the second machine for LAN games.
Tim
Quoted text (38 lines)
>>On Sat, 01 Jan 2011 06:00:04 -0500, Tim O <[email hidden]> wrote: >>I stress out about racing clean in multiplayer racing sims/games, >>nearly to the point where it can remove the fun for me. I'd probably >>be a neurotic mess in iRacing. >>When I'm playing something like GT5 offline and find that I can >>exploit a weakness, I can't help but do it. I wind up taking advantage >>of how the AI slows too much for the first corner, go in way too hot >>then bounce off of them in the apex to keep me from going off the >>track. This slows them down and makes me faster. Once I'm in front, I >>just block as best I can. Its horrible, because its the perfect >>example of doing everything the wrong way to great success. >>Where I'm gonna get screwed is when I finally work up the nerve to >>race online. I'll try to race clean, be slow as hell and its going to >>be an all-around awful experience. Will probably have a bunch of 15 >>year old creeps yelling "GET OUT OF THE WAY FAGGOT!" the whole race, >>too. >>Tim > >Tim - You decribe how online racing has always been on any given day >on open servers for any race sim. It's always been the biggest reason >open, unrestricted servers usually suck. There is no penalty for >smashing your way to the front, chopping corners, and doing other >infantile things to "win". IMO iRacing, though certainly not perfect, >is the closest thing to real world you will get. On a real racetrack >with real cars we do everything in our power to avoid ANY contact, and >that's what iRacing dictates. As time goes on and the service >improves, i'm sure they will tweak it so minor rubbing isn't an issue >(may even be there now, i've been away) as it isn't in most RL series. >The tracks are darn near perfect, the damage model is very good and >always improving, the onlinecode is the best available, etc. etc. The >only reason not to play is funds, but for $150 per year or so (that >includes buying a couple extra cars and tracks) I don't see cost as an >issue.. > >No vested interest in iRacing though I do have a decal on my 911 race >car.. :-) > >GR
> After a lot of dithering and indecision, I achieved critical "oh f*ck it!" mass
> recently, and my PS3 came yesterday. And I totally agreed too until I hit the
> Nordschleife for the first time in the AMG Challenge in an old Merc. Then I
> genuinely stopped caring. This is, without doubt IMO, the best version of the 'Ring
> to appear in electronic form so far. The track just looks right... the proportions
> match those you expect from real world footage in a very, very immersive way.
Welcome to the world of consoles.... 8-)
I love my PS3, almost as much as my PC! It provides a good BluRay
player (and DVD and CD of course), looks cool, can be used as a media
server, photos, videos, music, etc, built in web access, built in BBC
iPlayer etc, and now also LoveFilm access......
> 1) GT5 is a *great* game.
I agree, its a great game, but not a great sim, although I do think it
can be a good sim, with a wheel, in a good (premium) car, on a good
track (eg: the Ring, etc). Hmm, I find the Top Gear track strangely
addictive too....
8-)
[email hidden] (pjgtech) wrote:
> Welcome to the world of consoles.... 8-)
I must admit I'm beginning to understand why people own these things. The PS3 (slim)
is ridiculously quiet, pretty slick in operation, and quick & painless to use.
However until I can play games with a mouse plugged in I will continue to cry
regularly. My PS3 shares one of my PC monitors, so I tend to forget I'm using the
PS3. I am getting a little sick of hitting escape on my keyboard or wiggling my
mouse and wondering why it didn't work. :-)
I'm also getting a little tired of the fact the G25's FFB isn't adjustable. In
other sims I have FFB turned to minimum while still giving good feedback, but in
GT5 I'm getting a workout. And while that only means sore wrists for me, it means
my G25's longevity is going to suffer.
Still, it's worth the strain. GT5 is a bit like NFS:Shift in that it has a puzzling
combination of complete horrors to drive, and a few really effing amazingly
convincing experiences. I swear I have never felt better FFB than when belting
round the Ring and getting a fast corner slightly wrong. Sometimes the way a wheel
suddenly gets traction back really catches me by surprise (in a very, very good
way!)
But at other times it's less convincing. Low speed manoeuvres feel lifeless, and
low speed contact with other vehicles feels nowhere near convincing, but high speed
contact does... it's as if there's a threshold above which reality kicks in. :-)
But even when the "feel" isn't quite right, the replay shows convincing physics and
the cars seems to act realistically.... especially when getting a bit of a tank
slapper on. I don't think I've ever had to fight so hard to recover (though this
might just be the FFB making it both more realistic and harder).
I also desperately need a brake bias adjustment of some sort. The Top Gear Elise
challenge, in particular, is diabolically hard to do even with plenty of assists on!
The various upgrade options can really work wonders, but I still need my inability
to cope with much oversteer dialled out.
Overall GT5 is definitely a game (and a surprisingly compelling one), but inside it
is a superb sim experience trying to get out. I am really hoping that the updates
in the pipeline make it a bit easier to liberate that hardcore experience. If not,
at least I've got access to a variety of satisfying Nordschleife options now. I
just need to get to level 21 before that Nascar at the Ring Seasonal disappears.
That should be a laugh. So should trying it in one of the advanced karts.
While in Ring mode, I swear the most difficult sim racing challenge I have ever
faced is driving the Ring in the rain. It's embarrassingly, horrifyingly hard for
me (in the AMG Challenge). But at the same time it feels hard in a good way...
though making me do it in near darkness as well is just being sadistic!
It's also turning me into a masochist. :-)
Andrew McP
[email hidden] (Andrew MacPherson) wrote:
> I'm also getting a little tired of the fact the G25's FFB isn't
> adjustable.
Correction, it is. I found a setting I'd missed and it's now on 1 instead of 4. And
it is absolutely f*cking superb now! Light at low speeds, and just firm enough at
high.
It's still not brilliant in all cars at all tracks, all the time, but lapping the
Ring in the Intermediate AMG Challenge is now a sublime sim experience. The weather
is overcast, the colours muted, the mood bleak, but the handling.... this one car
and track was easily, *easily* worth the week's wages it cost to experience. I must
have put already put 10 hours into this one part of GT5 alone. Last night I was
even anticipating getting back from work and being able to fire it up again... and
that's something which hasn't happened to me for a long time.
Maybe that just shows how sad my life is, but maybe it also says something about
GT5. Of course the rest of GT5 is often annoying, often entertaining, sim-lite
clutter which you need to get through to unlock the best bits. But it really is
worth it.
Of course I said something similar about NFS:Shift's Ring experience, so I have a
record of poor judgement. But GT5 is way better than that. The track is perfectly
re-created, and it feels as well mapped as any iRacing track I've ever lumbered
round.
Of course it's important to say that most of the GT5 tracks don't feel anything
like as good as this, and a lot of the cars are really, really unsatisfying to
drive. But somebody put their heart and soul into modelling this experience, and it
shows in a big way.
Any Nordschleife enthusiast is genuinely missing out if they haven't tried this. I
promise. Honest!
Andrew McP... sponsored by Sony. ;-)
Andrew, where did you find the FFB adjustment? For the life of me, I just
can't find it!
"Andrew MacPherson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted text (55 lines)
> [email hidden] (Andrew MacPherson) wrote: > >> I'm also getting a little tired of the fact the G25's FFB isn't >> adjustable. > > Correction, it is. I found a setting I'd missed and it's now on 1 instead > of 4. And > it is absolutely f*cking superb now! Light at low speeds, and just firm > enough at > high. > > It's still not brilliant in all cars at all tracks, all the time, but > lapping the > Ring in the Intermediate AMG Challenge is now a sublime sim experience. > The weather > is overcast, the colours muted, the mood bleak, but the handling.... this > one car > and track was easily, *easily* worth the week's wages it cost to > experience. I must > have put already put 10 hours into this one part of GT5 alone. Last night > I was > even anticipating getting back from work and being able to fire it up > again... and > that's something which hasn't happened to me for a long time. > > Maybe that just shows how sad my life is, but maybe it also says something > about > GT5. Of course the rest of GT5 is often annoying, often entertaining, > sim-lite > clutter which you need to get through to unlock the best bits. But it > really is > worth it. > > Of course I said something similar about NFS:Shift's Ring experience, so I > have a > record of poor judgement. But GT5 is way better than that. The track is > perfectly > re-created, and it feels as well mapped as any iRacing track I've ever > lumbered > round. > > Of course it's important to say that most of the GT5 tracks don't feel > anything > like as good as this, and a lot of the cars are really, really > unsatisfying to > drive. But somebody put their heart and soul into modelling this > experience, and it > shows in a big way. > > Any Nordschleife enthusiast is genuinely missing out if they haven't tried > this. I > promise. Honest! > > Andrew McP... sponsored by Sony. ;-) >[email hidden] (David G Fisher's Scrotum) wrote:
> Andrew, where did you find the FFB adjustment? For the life of me,
> I just can't find it!
It's buried in the same menu section as the wheel selection. I haven't got it on at
the moment or I'd confirm how you get there. There are a couple of controller
option tiles on the left of the screen, and you move to the right to select your
wheel. Along the way is a tile for options in which there's a FFB setting.
I'm not sure yet whether you have to return to that and "force" it back during
every session. It definitely worked yesterday when I found the setting and changed
it mid-session, but today when I tried it I was less convinced. The setting was
still at 1 where I left it, but the wheel felt pretty stiff again.
I need to do some more thorough testing.
Andrew McP
[email hidden] (Andrew MacPherson) wrote:
> It's buried in the same menu section as the wheel selection.
Options/Steering Controllers/Steering Settings.
That brings up a menu independent of whichever wheel you're using further along on
that same section. The FFB settings seem to work.
Andrew McP
Cheers, I'll try it.
"Andrew MacPherson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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