GP4 or F1 2002??

Saw both in the store...which one is better and why...thought I'd see peoples opinions before spending money on them thanks jon

jon wrote: > Saw both in the store...which one is better and why...thought I'd see > peoples opinions before spending money on them > > thanks > > jon F1 2001 is the way to go, and what with all the modes available for it, it make Crammonds piece of shit look like the reeking turd it is! Gerry

"jon" wrote... > Saw both in the store...which one is better and > why...thought I'd see peoples opinions before > spending money on them F1 2002, no contest. If only for the GTR2002 mod(*). GP4 isn't a bad game and might possibly provide a better experience if you're confined to keyboard control, but with it Crammond is running so far behind the times it's painfull. Jan. =--- (*): free download at www.sbdt.co.uk, but the site seems to have taken a nosedive again.

with GP4 you get................GP4 with F12002 you get........mod's galore..LOL all alot more value than the original purchase price of either. AD

Aidee wrote: > with GP4 you get................GP4 > > with F12002 you get........mod's galore..LOL all alot more value than > the original purchase price of either. > > AD A lot more value than the purchase price of *BOTH* ;) -- Ian P <email invalid due to spammers>

"Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ommEa.41964$[email hidden]... > "jon" wrote... > > Saw both in the store...which one is better and > > why...thought I'd see peoples opinions before > > spending money on them > > F1 2002, no contest. If only for the GTR2002 mod(*). And the BPR Mod... And the BMW M3 Mod... And the many many more already available or still under development... > > GP4 isn't a bad game and might possibly provide a better experience if > you're confined to keyboard control, but with it Crammond is running sofar

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> behind the times it's painfull. > > Jan. > =--- > (*): free download at www.sbdt.co.uk, but the site seems to have taken a > nosedive again. > >

I have both and would recomend both !! If you can only afford one i would get GP4 - ultimate F1-sim F1 2002 - Ultimate all rounder...... GP4 has loads of add-ons in the pipe line, Alfa cup, Indy cars etc etc, bt F1 has GT, Touring cars etc etc etc, a little more open so a lot more to do... "Ian P" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:V_mEa.34647$[email hidden]...

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> Aidee wrote: > > with GP4 you get................GP4 > > > > with F12002 you get........mod's galore..LOL all alot more value than > > the original purchase price of either. > > > > AD > > A lot more value than the purchase price of *BOTH* ;) > > -- > > Ian P > <email invalid due to spammers> > > > >

Well, ea's f1 2002 is 19.99 and gp4 is 59.99 so from the looks of these opinions f1 2002 is the clear choice. I'm also going to get a wheel and pedalset. gp4 is the ultimate sim in what way? thanks jon

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>I have both and would recomend both !! >If you can only afford one i would get > >GP4 - ultimate F1-sim >F1 2002 - Ultimate all rounder...... > >GP4 has loads of add-ons in the pipe line, Alfa cup, Indy cars etc etc, bt >F1 has GT, Touring cars etc etc etc, a little more open so a lot more to >do... > > >"Ian P" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:V_mEa.34647$[email hidden]... >> Aidee wrote: >> > with GP4 you get................GP4 >> > >> > with F12002 you get........mod's galore..LOL all alot more value than >> > the original purchase price of either. >> > >> > AD >> >> A lot more value than the purchase price of *BOTH* ;) >> >> -- >> >> Ian P >> <email invalid due to spammers> >> >> >> >> >

On Sat, 07 Jun 2003 10:16:36 -0300, jon <[email hidden]> wrote: >Saw both in the store...which one is better and why...thought I'd see >peoples opinions before spending money on them F1 2002 is great if you like driving sportscars on horrible tracks or think it's normal to 4-wheel drift a modern F1 car in every corner. GP 4 is great if you want F1 cars that drive like F1 cars and don't mind some ridiculous oversight. Personally, I'm a GP4 guy buy your mileage may vary. The handling, damage, tracks, and AI are miles above F12k2 and the bad bits are mostly really ridiculous details that Crammond should have gotten by now (like user-controlled cars all having the same performance...wtf). If you have a decent rig (I play it at 50-60% occupancy on a 1.4gHz athlon/ti4400) and prefer single player then GP4 is a no brainer imho. Jason

"jon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Well, ea's f1 2002 is 19.99 and gp4 is 59.99 so from the looks > of these opinions f1 2002 is the clear choice. I'm also going to get > a wheel and pedalset. gp4 is the ultimate sim in what way? > > thanks > > jon

Shop around, I have been seeing F1 2k2 for $9.99......at $59.99 GP4 is not worth considering..... -- Biz "Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular structures,....and the....." - Ash

>"Paulinho" <[email hidden]> wrote > GP4 - ultimate F1-sim The ultimate F1-sim-retarded-by-a-decade-because-Geoff-Crammond-is-out-of-reality -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://ymenard.cjb.net/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

>"jon" <[email hidden]> wrote > gp4 is the ultimate sim in what way? I wouldn't even buy GP4 if it was free! ` It's the ultimate sim of nothing. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://ymenard.cjb.net/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

There are a load of editors to tweak GP4 to make it better than the retail box, same as F1-2002, as for the price, i think the dearest i`ve seen it in the UK is �14.99, which isn`t very dear at all.... one shop had it for �9.99........ "Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Sat, 07 Jun 2003 10:16:36 -0300, jon <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >Saw both in the store...which one is better and why...thought I'd see > >peoples opinions before spending money on them > > F1 2002 is great if you like driving sportscars on horrible tracks or > think it's normal to 4-wheel drift a modern F1 car in every corner. > > GP 4 is great if you want F1 cars that drive like F1 cars and don't > mind some ridiculous oversight. > > Personally, I'm a GP4 guy buy your mileage may vary. The handling, > damage, tracks, and AI are miles above F12k2 and the bad bits are > mostly really ridiculous details that Crammond should have gotten by > now (like user-controlled cars all having the same performance...wtf). > If you have a decent rig (I play it at 50-60% occupancy on a 1.4gHz > athlon/ti4400) and prefer single player then GP4 is a no brainer imho. > > Jason

F1 2002 every time. I'd rather buy 2 copies of F1 2002 than buy a copy of GP4. Seriously though, Geoff Crammond was the king of modern F1 sims when GP2 came out (long time ago), it simulated an F1 car just about as realistically as could be expected from computers at the time. Then GPL came out and redefined the level of simulation possible on PCs, so everybody expected *great* things of GP3. Unfortunately, GP3 turned out to be GP2 with wet weather (although the wet track effects looked fantastic, even if they were way too grippy). GP4 is a backwards step even from GP3 in about every way. I don't really know how he managed it, but Geoff managed to screw up bigtime. Let me put it another way, the GPx series doesn't even simulate gravity properly. Even Tetris is better at simulating gravity, and that is *no* exaggeration. But GP3 is a damn fun game if you can see it around in a bargain bin. Definitely the best in the series, and the extra money you will save can be used on getting F1 2002 to compliment it.

On Sat, 7 Jun 2003 19:38:28 +0000 (UTC), "Paulinho" <[email hidden]> wrote: >There are a load of editors to tweak GP4 to make it better than the retail >box, same as F1-2002, as for the price, i think the dearest i`ve seen it in >the UK is �14.99, which isn`t very dear at all.... one shop had it for >�9.99........ Do you know of any that work with the patch? I have the last patch and a decrypted .exe and it seems like none of the editors support it. Jason

On Sat, 7 Jun 2003 15:21:30 -0400, "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote: >It's the ultimate sim of nothing. And yet, if it weren't for GTR2002, it would be twice the sim F12k2 is. Jason

> >It's the ultimate sim of nothing. > > And yet, if it weren't for GTR2002, it would be twice the sim F12k2 > is. At least F1 2002 *tries* to simulate F1. GP4 is, at best, an approximation of F1 on all levels.

Redmist wrote:

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>>> It's the ultimate sim of nothing. >> >> And yet, if it weren't for GTR2002, it would be twice the sim F12k2 >> is. > > At least F1 2002 *tries* to simulate F1. GP4 is, at best, an > approximation of F1 on all levels.

Crammond still hasn't figured out how to implement a penalty stop and go, how the hell are we supposed to believe in the accuracy of his physics <G> -- Ian P <email invalid due to spammers>

Ian P wrote:

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> Redmist wrote: > >>>>It's the ultimate sim of nothing. >>> >>>And yet, if it weren't for GTR2002, it would be twice the sim F12k2 >>>is. >> >>At least F1 2002 *tries* to simulate F1. GP4 is, at best, an >>approximation of F1 on all levels. > > > Crammond still hasn't figured out how to implement a penalty stop and go, > how the hell are we supposed to believe in the accuracy of his physics <G>

IMO, GP4 was the ultimate insult to the sim racing community. Crammond effectively gave us all the finger when that piece of shit hit the shelves! Gerry

>"Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote > And yet, if it weren't for GTR2002, it would be twice the sim F12k2 > is. GP4 is at most, a graphical update to World Circuit. It still is. Take everything off, it feels, acts, alienates you, the same way. It's filled with the same idiosyncrasies. It's still at it's core, an x86 assembler-coded game engine. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://ymenard.cjb.net/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

>"Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote > IMO, GP4 was the ultimate insult to the sim racing community. Crammond > effectively gave us all the finger when that piece of shit hit theshelves! GP4 replaced GP-2000 which replaced GP3 as the ultimate insult to the simracing community. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://ymenard.cjb.net/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

ymenard wrote:

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>>"Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote >>And yet, if it weren't for GTR2002, it would be twice the sim F12k2 >>is. > > > > GP4 is at most, a graphical update to World Circuit. It still is. Take > everything off, it feels, acts, alienates you, the same way. It's filled > with the same idiosyncrasies. It's still at it's core, an x86 > assembler-coded game engine.

Or to put it simply, it's shite! Gerry

On Sun, 08 Jun 2003 21:27:45 +0100, Gerry Aitken <[email hidden]> wrote: >> GP4 is at most, a graphical update to World Circuit. It still is. Take >> everything off, it feels, acts, alienates you, the same way. It's filled >> with the same idiosyncrasies. It's still at it's core, an x86 >> assembler-coded game engine. > >Or to put it simply, it's shite! On the plus side, at least you can't drive the cars like they're wingless 67 GPL cars, eh? I mean, F12k2 is all fine and good but at the end of the day I can't believe anyone is convinced by driving over-saturated F1 cars that can do 90 degree slides around turns without being slightly unsettled on tracks that bare almost no resemblance to reality. Jason

On Sun, 8 Jun 2003 15:54:29 -0400, "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>>"Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote >> And yet, if it weren't for GTR2002, it would be twice the sim F12k2 >> is. > > >GP4 is at most, a graphical update to World Circuit. It still is. Take >everything off, it feels, acts, alienates you, the same way. It's filled >with the same idiosyncrasies. It's still at it's core, an x86 >assembler-coded game engine.

My thoughts on GP4 summed up by someone who seems to know a thing or two about modelling the physics of an F1 car: http://groups.google.com/groups?q=netkar+gp4&hl=xx-hacker&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=b4s4v3%24luo%241%40sparta.btinternet.com&rnum=1 Jason

"Jason Moyer" wrote...

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> <snip> > On the plus side, at least you can't drive the cars like > they're wingless 67 GPL cars, eh? I mean, F12k2 is all > fine and good but at the end of the day I can't believe > anyone is convinced by driving over-saturated F1 cars > that can do 90 degree slides around turns without being > slightly unsettled on tracks that bare almost no > resemblance to reality.

1) 1967 GP cars couldn't be driven like that either. Limitations in physics models allow this sort of thing, but the same is true for GPx. Every sim's limitations can be exploited. 2) The tracks in F1 2002 are a major let down, but at least ISI understand force feedback, whereas Geoff fails to communicate any sort of feel other than visual and audio cues. Jan. =---

"Jason Moyer" wrote... > <snip> > My thoughts on GP4 summed up by someone who seems > to know a thing or two about modelling the physics > of an F1 car: Yes, Gregor understands physics and GP4 is really not a bad game in tbis department... it's just that the implementation is *ages* behind the times. Jan. =---

On Sun, 08 Jun 2003 23:44:56 GMT, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Yes, Gregor understands physics and GP4 is really not a bad game in tbis >department... it's just that the implementation is *ages* behind the times. Oh yeah, no doubt I'd agree with that. Personally, I wish GP4 were better, but I still find it to be the best overall sim of a modern open wheel car, at least until netkar is further along with multiplayer, AI, race control, etc. F12k2 has a ton of potential, and I do believe if the car characteristics (particularly aero) and the track modelling were cleaned up it would be absolutely killer. I've had quite a bit of fun with it too, I just find the overall driftiness of the cars detracts a lot from the immersion factor, as do the ridiculous grass-cutting lines you can drive with no penalty (er, no penalty on a physics level, not race control). Imagine the lines we drive at Melbourne in F12k2 with 2 wheels over the inside of the aprons at each corner being taken in a real F1 car... you'd be off at every corner. Jason

If it was free would you have to BUY it??? ;-) I would have paid $59.00 for GTR 2002 if that was the price. Not for GP4 though. I saw F1 2002 for $4.99 in the jewel case bargain bin at CompUsa last week. And yes, I double checked. It was 2002 not 2001. "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:qTqEa.18110$[email hidden]...

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> >"jon" <[email hidden]> wrote > > gp4 is the ultimate sim in what way? > > > > I wouldn't even buy GP4 if it was free! > ` > > It's the ultimate sim of nothing. > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- http://ymenard.cjb.net/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > >

> F12k2 has a ton of potential, and I do believe if the car > characteristics (particularly aero) and the track modelling were > cleaned up it would be absolutely killer. I think you'll enjoy F1 Challenge.....

<snip> > over-saturated F1 cars... That's a highly debatable topic. If you've seen F1 in the flesh, you'll notice that the Ferraris are actually a bright orange colour. Watching them on TV though they look more like a duller red colour. I noticed that GP4 tried to make the Ferraris they're real life orange colour but in the end it looks wrong to me, since that colour was formulated completely for TV.

>"Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote > My thoughts on GP4 summed up by someone who seems to know a thing or > two about modelling the physics of an F1 car: Exactly, Geoff tried to milk it too far. His fault for being lazy. We all know he can write good coding. Too bad for no GP5. It's his entire fault, I feel no remorse for a guy who continues 3 time to give us a simulation with 1001 idiosyncrasies. There's so many of them, so many stuff that feels completely out of place in any modern game, so many gameplay flaws that are irritating. I don't think anybody here denies the potential of the game engine. We've been saying this since GP3. If Geoff couldn't "get it", that we didn't wanted World Circuit with better graphics, he wouldn't be in this situation nowadays. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://ymenard.cjb.net/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

> > F12k2 has a ton of potential, and I do believe if the car > > characteristics (particularly aero) and the track modelling were > > cleaned up it would be absolutely killer. > > I think you'll enjoy F1 Challenge..... Oh, except for the track modelling....but who cares? In an online league, everyone has to drive the same track so what does it really matter? There's plenty of super-accurate third party tracks for the pedants anyway. Besides, I think the modelling of the kerbs in GP4, completely nullifies the accuracy of the tracks...(not that GP4's suspension modelling is good enough for it to matter)

"Redmist" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:bc0suh$e4rl3$[email hidden]:

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> <snip> > >> over-saturated F1 cars... > > That's a highly debatable topic. If you've seen F1 in the flesh, > you'll notice that the Ferraris are actually a bright orange colour. > Watching them on TV though they look more like a duller red colour. I > noticed that GP4 tried to make the Ferraris they're real life orange > colour but in the end it looks wrong to me, since that colour was > formulated completely for TV. > > >

and that is Marlboro reddish-orange NOT Ferrari Red. They have really been red for decades. --Yes I keep bring this subject up every year. :) -- dave henrie

They have really > been red for decades. Whoooooooppppsss! that should read, They have NOT really been red for decades....sorry.. dh

"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > and that is Marlboro reddish-orange NOT Ferrari Red. Isn't it Ferrari yellow? And Italian motorsport red? Nick

"Nick" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:bc1ge0$eeobv$1@ID- 169726.news.dfncis.de:

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> > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... >> and that is Marlboro reddish-orange NOT Ferrari Red. > > Isn't it Ferrari yellow? And Italian motorsport red? > > Nick > > > >

Don't get technical with me! :) dave henrie