Indycar demo SUCKS

This thing is terrible, the cars have less grip than Nascar 2003, physics are terrible, and the control setup thingie is the same one from rally trophy that doesnt want to show a dual axis controller. This is pure arcade garbage. Oh well.

On 12 Jun 2003 11:26:50 -0700, [email hidden] (razor) wrote: >This thing is terrible, the cars have less grip than Nascar 2003, >physics are terrible, and the control setup thingie is the same one >from rally trophy that doesnt want to show a dual axis controller. >This is pure arcade garbage. Oh well. Agree! A lot of work has to be done if they want this one not to go up the same alley as the DTM driver thing. Slick graphics, game menu a tad too "arcade"-ish, couldnt get the controller configured (Microsoft Sidewinder FF steer (not an exotic I would think) and for some reason the in-car sound was just dreadfull. Physics???? This is pool table smooth sailing, and the force feedback only came into action when I touched the race track curbs, or when I tried to enter the pits, suddenly the whole rig started shaking all over the place... No, based on this demo I would definately NOT buy the game! But perhaps I overlooked something...

Have to agree, very arcadish ,shame:( <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (18 lines)

> > On 12 Jun 2003 11:26:50 -0700, [email hidden] (razor) wrote: > > >This thing is terrible, the cars have less grip than Nascar 2003, > >physics are terrible, and the control setup thingie is the same one > >from rally trophy that doesnt want to show a dual axis controller. > >This is pure arcade garbage. Oh well. > > Agree! A lot of work has to be done if they want this one not to go up > the same alley as the DTM driver thing. Slick graphics, game menu a > tad too "arcade"-ish, couldnt get the controller configured (Microsoft > Sidewinder FF steer (not an exotic I would think) and for some reason > the in-car sound was just dreadfull. Physics???? This is pool table > smooth sailing, and the force feedback only came into action when I > touched the race track curbs, or when I tried to enter the pits, > suddenly the whole rig started shaking all over the place... > No, based on this demo I would definately NOT buy the game! But > perhaps I overlooked something...

Where is it ? Larry "razor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > This thing is terrible, the cars have less grip than Nascar 2003, > physics are terrible, and the control setup thingie is the same one > from rally trophy that doesnt want to show a dual axis controller. > This is pure arcade garbage. Oh well.

<[email hidden]> wrote... > <snip> You need to have the spring and damping effect setting for your wheel turned "on" (i.e. <> 0%, I used 75%) to feel centering force in the game. Jan. =---

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] writes: >No, based on this demo I would definately NOT buy the game! But >perhaps I overlooked something... Codemaster demos have a tendency to make you feel that way... Eldred -- Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chilicutt from Michigan(info on my homepage) Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On Thu, 12 Jun 2003 20:04:16 GMT, "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Where is it ? > There is a direct link on the racesimcentral forums www.racesimcentral.com > >

On Thu, 12 Jun 2003 20:32:04 GMT, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote: >You need to have the spring and damping effect setting for your wheel turned >"on" (i.e. <> 0%, I used 75%) to feel centering force in the game. > >Jan. >=--- >Where are they?? I only got "steering sensitivity", "assistance" and "centre sensitivity" that runs from -5 to 5, and under controls a screen to attribute your controls, but it either refuses to aknowledge the brake pedal or otherwise the throttle But OK, the start screen says it's 70% complete and not a representation of the real product. but then why release it now???

Ever heard of the term "marketing"? Bruce. <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... >........but then why release it now???

On 12 Jun 2003 11:26:50 -0700, [email hidden] (razor) wrote: >This thing is terrible, the cars have less grip than Nascar 2003, >physics are terrible, and the control setup thingie is the same one >from rally trophy that doesnt want to show a dual axis controller. >This is pure arcade garbage. Oh well. Try 11 front wing, 6 rear wing if you don't have enough grip. The default setups use 3 front/9 rear which is why the car pushes into the wall like a bastard. I'm doing 220mph laps without lifting the throttle now, changing nothing but the wings. Jason

<[email hidden]> wrote...

Quoted text (7 lines)

> <snip> > Where are they?? I only got "steering sensitivity", > "assistance" and "centre sensitivity" that runs > from -5 to 5, and under controls a screen to > attribute your controls, but it either refuses > to aknowledge the brake pedal or otherwise the > throttle

The throttle/brake thing may cause a problem. The settings I referred to should be in the configuration screen for your wheel (in Win98: Start - Settings - Control Panel - Gaming Options - Properties). You can also try setting your pedals to combined axis there to see if that helps the control attribution. > But OK, the start screen says it's 70% complete > and not a representation of the real product. > but then why release it now??? Like Bruce says... marketing. They're hoping that a large proportion of those who played the demo will buy the game sight unseen (i.e. without waiting for reviews or a friend's opinion or somesuch). Even those who have problems with this demo might fall for it, as the developers will no doubt promise to fix controller issues and the like on their official forums. Jan. =---

On Fri, 13 Jun 2003 17:15:25 GMT, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote: ><[email hidden]> wrote... <snip>

Quoted text (13 lines)

>> But OK, the start screen says it's 70% complete >> and not a representation of the real product. >> but then why release it now??? > >Like Bruce says... marketing. They're hoping that a large proportion of >those who played the demo will buy the game sight unseen (i.e. without >waiting for reviews or a friend's opinion or somesuch). Even those who have >problems with this demo might fall for it, as the developers will no doubt >promise to fix controller issues and the like on their official forums. > >Jan. >=--- >

It'd be even more amusing if they promised they were going to add mirrors to the PC version... Or is the lack of mirrors part of the marketing strategy? "The closest racing in the world! No, really. It is. We know you can't see behind you, but trust us, that guy is right on your ass."

"John Harwood" wrote...

Quoted text (9 lines)

> <snip> > It'd be even more amusing if they promised they > were going to add mirrors to the PC version... > Or is the lack of mirrors part of the marketing > strategy? > > "The closest racing in the world! No, really. > It is. We know you can't see behind you, but > trust us, that guy is right on your ass."

Is there any reason consoles can't *do* mirrors? Jan. =---

> > Is there any reason consoles can't *do* mirrors? > > Jan. > =--- > Why yes there is...the console cases are too narrow and that would mean the mirrors are too close together to adequately show whats behind you. Aren't you glad you asked now? :) dave henrie

I didn't have a problem as the spotter was keeping me advised. I have trained my crew well, you see. So well that we decided to rip the mirrors off in order to save a bit more weight. (That's my scenario and I'm sticking to it. :) ) Bruce "John Harwood" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... >It'd be even more amusing if they promised they were going to add > mirrors to the PC version... Or is the lack of mirrors part of the > marketing strategy?

On Fri, 13 Jun 2003 23:04:35 GMT, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted text (16 lines)

>"John Harwood" wrote... >> <snip> >> It'd be even more amusing if they promised they >> were going to add mirrors to the PC version... >> Or is the lack of mirrors part of the marketing >> strategy? >> >> "The closest racing in the world! No, really. >> It is. We know you can't see behind you, but >> trust us, that guy is right on your ass." > >Is there any reason consoles can't *do* mirrors? > >Jan. >=--- >

Seems that pretty much every other racing game I've seen on a console does mirrors, so dunno. "Hmmm.... What would be the most annoying thing to leave out of the game... Multiplayer?" "Yeah, that's good, but we need a little something more to truly alienate the sim crowd" "Mirrors?" "Oooohhh... You're so evil... Let's do it!"

Isn't there a bit of leaping to conclusions happening here? Is it >definite< that mirrors (or at least a rear view) will not appear in the final version? Bruce. "John Harwood" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (9 lines)

> "Hmmm.... What would be the most annoying thing to leave out of the > game... Multiplayer?" > > "Yeah, that's good, but we need a little something more to truly > alienate the sim crowd" > > "Mirrors?" > > "Oooohhh... You're so evil... Let's do it!"

On Sat, 14 Jun 2003 10:56:44 +1000, "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Isn't there a bit of leaping to conclusions happening here? >Is it >definite< that mirrors (or at least a rear view) will not appear in >the final version? > >Bruce. I'd have to say pretty definite. They're not in the PS2 or XBOX versions and the Xbox (and likely PS2 for that matter) defintely has enough horsepower to throw up a mirror. So if they didn't have it in either of those and the PC version is just going to be a straight port... Not promising at least. In my dream world, the "70%" represents the initial port from the PS2 prior to putting on the PC-specific stuff like enhanced controller and/or video support. But given that they were cutting other corners on the consoles (mirrors, online multiplayer, USB wheel support) and that Codemasters has usually done pretty vanilla ports between different platforms in the past, I'm really not counting on anything. -John

My point, exactly, John. :) Wait until the eggs are hatched. Bruce. "John Harwood" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... >I'm really not counting on anything.

On Fri, 13 Jun 2003 23:34:36 GMT, Dave Henrie wrote:

Quoted text (14 lines)

> >> >> Is there any reason consoles can't *do* mirrors? >> >> Jan. >> =--- >> > Why yes there is...the console cases are too narrow and that would mean > the mirrors are too close together to adequately show whats behind you. > Aren't you glad you asked now? > >:) > dave henrie >

Brilliant reply, dave. Instantly submitted to ahbou. ;-) Cheers, uwe -- mail replies to Uwe at schuerkamp dot de ( yahoo address is spambox) Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/ Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E) GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

"Dave Henrie" wrote... > > <snip> > Why yes there is...the console cases are too narrow and > that would mean the mirrors are too close together to > adequately show whats behind you. > Aren't you glad you asked now? Ecstatic. Jan. <g> =---

Maybe they didn't include them in the Demo because they suck up 90% of the frame rates? Larry "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (19 lines)

> Isn't there a bit of leaping to conclusions happening here? > Is it >definite< that mirrors (or at least a rear view) will not appear in > the final version? > > Bruce. > > "John Harwood" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > "Hmmm.... What would be the most annoying thing to leave out of the > > game... Multiplayer?" > > > > "Yeah, that's good, but we need a little something more to truly > > alienate the sim crowd" > > > > "Mirrors?" > > > > "Oooohhh... You're so evil... Let's do it!" > >

On Sat, 14 Jun 2003 16:46:50 +1000, "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted text (10 lines)

>My point, exactly, John. :) >Wait until the eggs are hatched. > >Bruce. > >"John Harwood" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >>I'm really not counting on anything. > >

I had to go and ask... Oh well... from someone titled "Codemasters Customer Service" on their Indycar forum: "There definitely will be no mirrors, unfortunately. This was a design decision to ensure that we could have a full Indy grid with reasonable frame rates on today's PCs (rather than tomorrow's). We hope that the spotter/rear view provides a good enough compromise." Funny that if the original Indy500 could run with mirrors back in 1988, you'd think it could be pulled off these days. At least they were straightforward and up front about it. -John

Quoted text (13 lines)

> I had to go and ask... Oh well... from someone titled "Codemasters > Customer Service" on their Indycar forum: > > "There definitely will be no mirrors, unfortunately. This was a design > decision to ensure that we could have a full Indy grid with reasonable > frame rates on today's PCs (rather than tomorrow's). We hope that the > spotter/rear view provides a good enough compromise." > > Funny that if the original Indy500 could run with mirrors back in > 1988, you'd think it could be pulled off these days. At least they > were straightforward and up front about it. > > -John

Do you think some of the talented coders out there could come up with some kind of mirrors eventually? IF the game is a far sight better than the demo and worth hacking with. The demo isn't too good. My Wingman Formula works great with every other driving game. Here the game only sees one pedal! Tried everything but this piece of garbage still doesn't see both pedals.... -JZach

On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:39:07 GMT, "J. Zach" <[email hidden]> wrote: <snip> > >The demo isn't too good. My Wingman Formula works great with every other >driving game. Here the game only sees one pedal! Tried everything but >this piece of garbage still doesn't see both pedals.... > >-JZach I had to put my Momo Force back on combined axis to get it to stop from coming to a total stop and going into reverse if I ever let off the gas pedal. One would presume the final version will have a bit more robust controller support (and God help them if it doesn't), but in the meantime give the combined axis thing a shot and see if it helps. Codemasters recently updated their release date on the PC version and pushed it back to 7/15, so maybe they're going to fix the controller issues *before* releasing it... Novel approach... -John

John Harwood wrote:

Quoted text (24 lines)

> On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:39:07 GMT, "J. Zach" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > <snip> > >>The demo isn't too good. My Wingman Formula works great with every other >>driving game. Here the game only sees one pedal! Tried everything but >>this piece of garbage still doesn't see both pedals.... >> >>-JZach > > > I had to put my Momo Force back on combined axis to get it to stop > from coming to a total stop and going into reverse if I ever let off > the gas pedal. One would presume the final version will have a bit > more robust controller support (and God help them if it doesn't), but > in the meantime give the combined axis thing a shot and see if it > helps. > > Codemasters recently updated their release date on the PC version and > pushed it back to 7/15, so maybe they're going to fix the controller > issues *before* releasing it... Novel approach... > > -John

Tried the combined axis thing also - no luck :( JZach

>"There definitely will be no mirrors, unfortunately. This was a design >decision to ensure that we could have a full Indy grid with reasonable >frame rates on today's PCs (rather than tomorrow's). We hope that the >spotter/rear view provides a good enough compromise." >No mirrors?!? That sucks... :-( Eldred -- Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info on my homepage) Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

> > Funny that if the original Indy500 could run with mirrors back in > 1988, you'd think it could be pulled off these days. At least they > were straightforward and up front about it. > > -John Yes but all Indy 500 had to do was decide which colored shape to place in the mirror, the red one or the blue one or the red/black one...that was about all the detail they had... :) dave henrie

On Tue, 17 Jun 2003 04:26:29 GMT, Dave Henrie <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted text (13 lines)

> >> >> Funny that if the original Indy500 could run with mirrors back in >> 1988, you'd think it could be pulled off these days. At least they >> were straightforward and up front about it. >> >> -John > Yes but all Indy 500 had to do was decide which colored shape to place >in the mirror, the red one or the blue one or the red/black one...that was >about all the detail they had... :) > >dave henrie >

Ah, the good old days... :) Heck, I'd settle for that level of detail in my mirrors for this game. At least I'd have a guess about when someone was coming up on me and you wouldn't get the simultaneous "Inside"/wreck that you get now...

Dave Henrie <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted text (10 lines)

> > > > Funny that if the original Indy500 could run with mirrors back in > > 1988, you'd think it could be pulled off these days. At least they > > were straightforward and up front about it. > > > > -John > > Yes but all Indy 500 had to do was decide which colored shape to place > in the mirror, the red one or the blue one or the red/black one...that was > about all the detail they had... :)

Hey, if Codemasters or Brain In A Jar had been able to manage even THIS, I think there would be a lot less complaining . . . or at least a different form of complaining, anyway. ;-) -- JCB

On Tue, 17 Jun 2003 04:26:29 GMT, Dave Henrie <[email hidden]> wrote: > Yes but all Indy 500 had to do was decide which colored shape to place >in the mirror, the red one or the blue one or the red/black one...that was >about all the detail they had... :) > >dave henrie >as an alternative, load up indycar 2 again. using vdmsound, I got it working on my xp box. even had force feedback from my MS USB wheel! do a google search for vdmsound if you're interested. Its on sourceforge. Regards all, istoff