Spoiler: NASCAR Infineon Race Today

I wanted to make a couple of comments/observations on the Infineon NASCAR race today. These are only my opinions and I express them to garner open discussion....if you also have an opinion? In roughly the last two weeks, Jeff Gordon has raised the bar.......twice.......in my opinion of him as a great race car driver. I don't think there is any doubt that his performance in the Williams F1 at Indianapolis showed just how good of race car driver he is. It even got the F1 community talking about how good he drove the Williams. Today, he showed me that he is capable of becoming one of the greatest NASCAR drivers ever.....maybe the best ever (if he gets some luck in the next 10 years). Here's why I say that. I think he could have passed Robby (Gordon) if he wanted to. His car was equal to Robby's....and certainly his driving skills (anywhere, but certainly on a road course like Infineon where Jeff has set/broken all performance records in NASCAR) are better. But.....I think Jeff showed the intelligence of assessing the situation in almost a brilliant manner.....and decided not to press the issue and just take the second place trophy (and valuable NASCAR points) and go to the next race. After all, Jeff has nothing to prove at Infineon (having won three times and led more laps than any other current NASCAR driver....total). And, Robby had/has a ton to prove! Therefore, he was not going to let Jeff get by him.......no way....if he could avoid it. That sets the stage for disaster.....usually for both drivers. And, I think Jeff figured the extra 10 points wasn't worth crashing both of them. There's two ways Jeff could have passed Robby: (1) Robby makes a mistake and opens the door.....Jeff would have stepped right through it (and kept himself in position to do that). Or. (2) Jeff beats the door down with his foot.....then steps through it! The problem is.....and Jeff rightfully figured this out......is that number (2).....especially when the lead driver has more at stake than the second place driver......it has got a high degree of possibility that both drivers crash.....if the second place driver starts "beating on doors!" What this tells me is that Jeff Gordon is thinking in the race car.....and he's "thinking championships".....many of them. And, his history is that when he goes after something (in racing), he gets it. That is a "maturity level" that most race car drivers don't fully reach.....and many never reach it. I'm not so sure even Dale Earnhardt (as much as I love that guy to death) even reached it (he would have though, eventually)? So, if Jeff Gordon manages to win a few more NASCAR Championships before he retires......maybe 4 or 5 more......that would pretty much make him the best ever.....in my book at least. Today, he showed me that he's fully capable of doing that. Last week, he showed me he can friggin' drive any race car you put him in.....almost instantly....at world-class levels! Regards, Tom PS: I am not going to go into the controversy between Jeff and Robby after the race.....over the "local yellow" pass that Robby made. Its not part of my thoughts on Jeff.....its another subject entirely.

I dunno. Not to take anything away from Jeff or what you said about him, but Robby did say during the post race interview that he was pacing himself on Jeff, i.e. he too could have gone faster if he wanted to but he didn't want to take a chance on breaking his car and getting another DNF there. Sounds like a story, but he did look pretty relaxed and in control in the in-car shots during the race. That's a pretty mature move too, going just fast enough to keep the other guy behind you. So I think that today Robby was the better driver, although in general I wouldn't argue with what you said about Jeff. "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:nDtJa.108234$YZ2.276268@rwcrnsc53...

Quoted text (8 lines)

> I wanted to make a couple of comments/observations on the Infineon NASCAR > race today. These are only my opinions and I express them to garner open > discussion....if you also have an opinion? > > In roughly the last two weeks, Jeff Gordon has raised the > bar.......twice.......in my opinion of him as a great race car driver. > > I don't think there is any doubt that his performance in the Williams F1

at > Indianapolis showed just how good of race car driver he is. It even gotthe

Quoted text (10 lines)

> F1 community talking about how good he drove the Williams. > > Today, he showed me that he is capable of becoming one of the greatest > NASCAR drivers ever.....maybe the best ever (if he gets some luck in the > next 10 years). Here's why I say that. > > I think he could have passed Robby (Gordon) if he wanted to. His car was > equal to Robby's....and certainly his driving skills (anywhere, but > certainly on a road course like Infineon where Jeff has set/broken all > performance records in NASCAR) are better. But.....I think Jeff showed

the > intelligence of assessing the situation in almost a brilliantmanner.....and > decided not to press the issue and just take the second place trophy (and > valuable NASCAR points) and go to the next race. After all, Jeff has > nothing to prove at Infineon (having won three times and led more lapsthan

Quoted text (12 lines)

> any other current NASCAR driver....total). And, Robby had/has a ton to > prove! Therefore, he was not going to let Jeff get by him.......no > way....if he could avoid it. That sets the stage for disaster.....usually > for both drivers. And, I think Jeff figured the extra 10 points wasn't > worth crashing both of them. > > There's two ways Jeff could have passed Robby: (1) Robby makes a mistake > and opens the door.....Jeff would have stepped right through it (and kept > himself in position to do that). Or. (2) Jeff beats the door down with > his foot.....then steps through it! > > The problem is.....and Jeff rightfully figured this out......is that

number > (2).....especially when the lead driver has more at stake than the second > place driver......it has got a high degree of possibility that bothdrivers > crash.....if the second place driver starts "beating on doors!" > > What this tells me is that Jeff Gordon is thinking in the race car.....and > he's "thinking championships".....many of them. And, his history is that > when he goes after something (in racing), he gets it. That is a "maturity > level" that most race car drivers don't fully reach.....and many neverreach > it. I'm not so sure even Dale Earnhardt (as much as I love that guy to > death) even reached it (he would have though, eventually)? So, if Jeff > Gordon manages to win a few more NASCAR Championships before he > retires......maybe 4 or 5 more......that would pretty much make him thebest

Quoted text (11 lines)

> ever.....in my book at least. > > Today, he showed me that he's fully capable of doing that. Last week, he > showed me he can friggin' drive any race car you put him in.....almost > instantly....at world-class levels! > > Regards, > > Tom > > PS: I am not going to go into the controversy between Jeff and Robby

after > the race.....over the "local yellow" pass that Robby made. Its not partof > my thoughts on Jeff.....its another subject entirely. > >

"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:nDtJa.108234$YZ2.276268@rwcrnsc53... > I wanted to make a couple of comments/observations on the Infineon NASCAR > race today. > Today, he showed me that he is capable of becoming one of the greatest > NASCAR drivers ever.....maybe the best ever (if he gets some luck in the > next 10 years). He already has the greatest Nascar whiner title locked up. Kyle

Haqsau.... I surely see your point, too. I also think Robby has "matured" a lot in just the last two years. But I'm not entirely sure he could have prevented Jeff from reaching his rear bumper....some time, in those last 20 laps. Who knows? We will likely never really know for sure. Let's just say "both driver's showed maturity" today! TP "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:bd5ptj$p70v4$[email hidden]... > I dunno. Not to take anything away from Jeff or what you said about him, > but Robby did say during the post race interview that he was pacinghimself

Quoted text (12 lines)

> on Jeff, i.e. he too could have gone faster if he wanted to but he didn't > want to take a chance on breaking his car and getting another DNF there. > Sounds like a story, but he did look pretty relaxed and in control in the > in-car shots during the race. That's a pretty mature move too, going just > fast enough to keep the other guy behind you. So I think that today Robby > was the better driver, although in general I wouldn't argue with what you > said about Jeff. > > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:nDtJa.108234$YZ2.276268@rwcrnsc53... > > I wanted to make a couple of comments/observations on the Infineon

NASCAR > > race today. These are only my opinions and I express them to garneropen

Quoted text (16 lines)

> > discussion....if you also have an opinion? > > > > In roughly the last two weeks, Jeff Gordon has raised the > > bar.......twice.......in my opinion of him as a great race car driver. > > > > I don't think there is any doubt that his performance in the Williams F1 > at > > Indianapolis showed just how good of race car driver he is. It even got > the > > F1 community talking about how good he drove the Williams. > > > > Today, he showed me that he is capable of becoming one of the greatest > > NASCAR drivers ever.....maybe the best ever (if he gets some luck in the > > next 10 years). Here's why I say that. > > > > I think he could have passed Robby (Gordon) if he wanted to. His car

was

Quoted text (7 lines)

> > equal to Robby's....and certainly his driving skills (anywhere, but > > certainly on a road course like Infineon where Jeff has set/broken all > > performance records in NASCAR) are better. But.....I think Jeff showed > the > > intelligence of assessing the situation in almost a brilliant > manner.....and > > decided not to press the issue and just take the second place trophy

(and > > valuable NASCAR points) and go to the next race. After all, Jeff has > > nothing to prove at Infineon (having won three times and led more laps > than > > any other current NASCAR driver....total). And, Robby had/has a ton to > > prove! Therefore, he was not going to let Jeff get by him.......no > > way....if he could avoid it. That sets the stage fordisaster.....usually > > for both drivers. And, I think Jeff figured the extra 10 points wasn't > > worth crashing both of them. > > > > There's two ways Jeff could have passed Robby: (1) Robby makes amistake > > and opens the door.....Jeff would have stepped right through it (andkept > > himself in position to do that). Or. (2) Jeff beats the door downwith > > his foot.....then steps through it! > > > > The problem is.....and Jeff rightfully figured this out......is that > number > > (2).....especially when the lead driver has more at stake than thesecond > > place driver......it has got a high degree of possibility that both > drivers > > crash.....if the second place driver starts "beating on doors!" > > > > What this tells me is that Jeff Gordon is thinking in the racecar.....and > > he's "thinking championships".....many of them. And, his history isthat > > when he goes after something (in racing), he gets it. That is a"maturity

Quoted text (10 lines)

> > level" that most race car drivers don't fully reach.....and many never > reach > > it. I'm not so sure even Dale Earnhardt (as much as I love that guy to > > death) even reached it (he would have though, eventually)? So, if Jeff > > Gordon manages to win a few more NASCAR Championships before he > > retires......maybe 4 or 5 more......that would pretty much make him the > best > > ever.....in my book at least. > > > > Today, he showed me that he's fully capable of doing that. Last week,

he

Quoted text (16 lines)

> > showed me he can friggin' drive any race car you put him in.....almost > > instantly....at world-class levels! > > > > Regards, > > > > Tom > > > > PS: I am not going to go into the controversy between Jeff and Robby > after > > the race.....over the "local yellow" pass that Robby made. Its not part > of > > my thoughts on Jeff.....its another subject entirely. > > > > > >

Well.....I guess you'd have to define "greatest NASCAR driver".....but usually championships and/or wins is the measure. By those two items he's got a ways to go to beat Petty (200 wins...and its highly likely that no one will ever exceed that....at least its pretty hard to imagine it being beat since that's the equivalent of averaging 10 wins a year...for 20 years straight.....think about it!) and Earnhardt (7 championships...or is it 8...don't recall exactly). TP "Kyle Roberts" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:OeuJa.20192$[email hidden]... > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:nDtJa.108234$YZ2.276268@rwcrnsc53... > > I wanted to make a couple of comments/observations on the InfineonNASCAR

Quoted text (10 lines)

> > race today. > > Today, he showed me that he is capable of becoming one of the greatest > > NASCAR drivers ever.....maybe the best ever (if he gets some luck in the > > next 10 years). > > He already has the greatest Nascar whiner title locked up. > > Kyle > >

"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:pMuJa.63755$vq.13507@sccrnsc04... > Well.....I guess you'd have to define "greatest NASCAR driver".....but > usually championships and/or wins is the measure. By those two items he's > got a ways to go to beat Petty (200 wins...and its highly likely that noone

Quoted text (13 lines)

> will ever exceed that....at least its pretty hard to imagine it being beat > since that's the equivalent of averaging 10 wins a year...for 20 years > straight.....think about it!) and Earnhardt (7 championships...or is it > 8...don't recall exactly). > > TP > > > "Kyle Roberts" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:OeuJa.20192$[email hidden]... > > He already has the greatest Nascar whiner title locked up. > > > > Kyle

LOL. I said greatest WHINER. Kyle

That was Jack Brabham's philosophy from the day he first climbed into a dirt-track speedway car - and one which he kept to for the rest of his competitive career. As he put it, you drive to win at the slowest possible speed. That philosophy was adopted by me in my early school years, when I decided that, for the rest of my life, I would do just enough work to keep out of strife! :) Bruce. "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:bd5ptj$p70v4$[email hidden]... > That's a pretty mature move too, going just fast enough to keep the otherguy behind you.

Tom, Please take this OT stuff to r.a.s.nascar - WHERE IT BELONGS! "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> skrev i melding news:nDtJa.108234$YZ2.276268@rwcrnsc53... > I wanted to make a couple of comments/observations ............. Yadda -yadda - yadda..

>Tom, > >Please take this OT stuff to r.a.s.nascar - WHERE IT BELONGS! > We often talk about races and race results here. Just because it's Tom doesn't mean he can't comment like the rest of us...<g> Eldred -- Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info on my homepage) Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Ah...LOL...and so you did! But, I'd still dispute he has that title wrapped up as well. Rusty Wallace has it "in the bag" and has form 10 years. LOL.... TP "Kyle Roberts" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:jQuJa.20556$[email hidden]... > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:pMuJa.63755$vq.13507@sccrnsc04... > > Well.....I guess you'd have to define "greatest NASCAR driver".....but > > usually championships and/or wins is the measure. By those two itemshe's > > got a ways to go to beat Petty (200 wins...and its highly likely that no > one > > will ever exceed that....at least its pretty hard to imagine it beingbeat

Quoted text (18 lines)

> > since that's the equivalent of averaging 10 wins a year...for 20 years > > straight.....think about it!) and Earnhardt (7 championships...or is it > > 8...don't recall exactly). > > > > TP > > > > > > "Kyle Roberts" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:OeuJa.20192$[email hidden]... > > > He already has the greatest Nascar whiner title locked up. > > > > > > Kyle > > LOL. I said greatest WHINER. > > Kyle > >

Ed must have made another silly post about this being inappropriate posting or something? LOL....he's so predictable. TP "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > >Tom, > > > >Please take this OT stuff to r.a.s.nascar - WHERE IT BELONGS! > > > > We often talk about races and race results here. Just because it's Tomdoesn't > mean he can't comment like the rest of us...<g> > > Eldred > -- > Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info onmy > homepage) > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

He could take on CART's all time champion: Michael Andretti for the world title... I don't think anyone in F1 could boast a sufficient record to challenge. Funny thing is, being a Nazareth boy myself, I *like* MA. I also like JG. That said, the whining (which JG has toned down - relatively to earlier in his career), is the one flaw they share. I figure if Jeff can get to 100 wins in an era where they don't race as much as they used to (back before Winston they had 50-60 races a year - many of them 100 milers/laps...), and pull off 7(+) championships, then he could lay claim to the greatest. As usual, it will be debated, but that's the fun of it... :) On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 03:12:46 GMT, "Kyle Roberts" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted text (13 lines)

> >"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:nDtJa.108234$YZ2.276268@rwcrnsc53... >> I wanted to make a couple of comments/observations on the Infineon NASCAR >> race today. >> Today, he showed me that he is capable of becoming one of the greatest >> NASCAR drivers ever.....maybe the best ever (if he gets some luck in the >> next 10 years). > >He already has the greatest Nascar whiner title locked up. > >Kyle >

"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:nDtJa.108234$YZ2.276268@rwcrnsc53... > I wanted to make a couple of comments/observations on the Infineon NASCAR > race today. These are only my opinions and I express them to garner open > discussion....if you also have an opinion?<SNIP> I think your overall idea is correct, I think Jeff was 'big pitcher' racing as Larry Mac would call it. He knows this is the best position he's been in points wise since the divorece thing came about and wasn't about to get himself booted to the back trying to pass Robbie. And I think Jeff's interview also brought up a good point when he said Robbie was 'hungry for a win, as he always is on the road courses' and he knew it could be trouble to try and get around him. I ain't really a JG fan, BUT he is a 4 time champ, he is in a GM (which I am a fan of) and I think he raced smartly yesterday. That second place may go a long way toward his 5th title if his luck and team hold up solid for the second half. IIRC, it moved him into 2nd ahead of Junior with a little over half the season to go yet.

My thoughts exactly.......better expressed by you. Thanks, SR. Tom "SimRacer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:IGIJa.82067$[email hidden]... > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:nDtJa.108234$YZ2.276268@rwcrnsc53... > > I wanted to make a couple of comments/observations on the InfineonNASCAR > > race today. These are only my opinions and I express them to garneropen > > discussion....if you also have an opinion? > <SNIP> > > I think your overall idea is correct, I think Jeff was 'big pitcher'racing > as Larry Mac would call it. He knows this is the best position he's beenin > points wise since the divorece thing came about and wasn't about to get > himself booted to the back trying to pass Robbie. And I think Jeff's > interview also brought up a good point when he said Robbie was 'hungry fora > win, as he always is on the road courses' and he knew it could be troubleto > try and get around him. > > I ain't really a JG fan, BUT he is a 4 time champ, he is in a GM (which Iam > a fan of) and I think he raced smartly yesterday. That second place may goa > long way toward his 5th title if his luck and team hold up solid for the > second half. IIRC, it moved him into 2nd ahead of Junior with a littleover > half the season to go yet. > >

Same race, same driver, different topic: His whining about R. Gordon passing under yellow. First of all, it doesn't concern Jeff, as it had no bearing on his position whatsoever. Second, although there is a gentleman's agreement, the move was perfectly legal. And third, and what really chaps my hide, didn't Jeff pass Kenseth (in a move that was incorrectly overruled) earlier this season while racing back to the flag? So it's o.k. for him, just not anybody else? Yes, he's talented, but he certainly gives those of us who don't like him a lot of reasons to not like him. I won't even bring up his recent shoving people (the #40 twice, and the #22) out of the way. Well, technically, I guess just did bring that up. :) Sammy Marks "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:nDtJa.108234$YZ2.276268@rwcrnsc53...

Quoted text (8 lines)

> I wanted to make a couple of comments/observations on the Infineon NASCAR > race today. These are only my opinions and I express them to garner open > discussion....if you also have an opinion? > > In roughly the last two weeks, Jeff Gordon has raised the > bar.......twice.......in my opinion of him as a great race car driver. > > I don't think there is any doubt that his performance in the Williams F1

at > Indianapolis showed just how good of race car driver he is. It even gotthe

Quoted text (10 lines)

> F1 community talking about how good he drove the Williams. > > Today, he showed me that he is capable of becoming one of the greatest > NASCAR drivers ever.....maybe the best ever (if he gets some luck in the > next 10 years). Here's why I say that. > > I think he could have passed Robby (Gordon) if he wanted to. His car was > equal to Robby's....and certainly his driving skills (anywhere, but > certainly on a road course like Infineon where Jeff has set/broken all > performance records in NASCAR) are better. But.....I think Jeff showed

the > intelligence of assessing the situation in almost a brilliantmanner.....and > decided not to press the issue and just take the second place trophy (and > valuable NASCAR points) and go to the next race. After all, Jeff has > nothing to prove at Infineon (having won three times and led more lapsthan

Quoted text (12 lines)

> any other current NASCAR driver....total). And, Robby had/has a ton to > prove! Therefore, he was not going to let Jeff get by him.......no > way....if he could avoid it. That sets the stage for disaster.....usually > for both drivers. And, I think Jeff figured the extra 10 points wasn't > worth crashing both of them. > > There's two ways Jeff could have passed Robby: (1) Robby makes a mistake > and opens the door.....Jeff would have stepped right through it (and kept > himself in position to do that). Or. (2) Jeff beats the door down with > his foot.....then steps through it! > > The problem is.....and Jeff rightfully figured this out......is that

number > (2).....especially when the lead driver has more at stake than the second > place driver......it has got a high degree of possibility that bothdrivers > crash.....if the second place driver starts "beating on doors!" > > What this tells me is that Jeff Gordon is thinking in the race car.....and > he's "thinking championships".....many of them. And, his history is that > when he goes after something (in racing), he gets it. That is a "maturity > level" that most race car drivers don't fully reach.....and many neverreach > it. I'm not so sure even Dale Earnhardt (as much as I love that guy to > death) even reached it (he would have though, eventually)? So, if Jeff > Gordon manages to win a few more NASCAR Championships before he > retires......maybe 4 or 5 more......that would pretty much make him thebest

Quoted text (11 lines)

> ever.....in my book at least. > > Today, he showed me that he's fully capable of doing that. Last week, he > showed me he can friggin' drive any race car you put him in.....almost > instantly....at world-class levels! > > Regards, > > Tom > > PS: I am not going to go into the controversy between Jeff and Robby

after > the race.....over the "local yellow" pass that Robby made. Its not partof > my thoughts on Jeff.....its another subject entirely. > > >

Oops, sorry everyone, I missed reading Tom's p.s. until after I posted, my apologies. Sammy "Sammy Marks" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:JfMJa.122878$[email hidden]... > Same race, same driver, different topic: His whining about R. Gordonpassing > under yellow. First of all, it doesn't concern Jeff, as it had no bearingon > his position whatsoever. Second, although there is a gentleman'sagreement, > the move was perfectly legal. And third, and what really chaps my hide, > didn't Jeff pass Kenseth (in a move that was incorrectly overruled)earlier

Quoted text (12 lines)

> this season while racing back to the flag? So it's o.k. for him, just not > anybody else? Yes, he's talented, but he certainly gives those of us who > don't like him a lot of reasons to not like him. I won't even bring up his > recent shoving people (the #40 twice, and the #22) out of the way. Well, > technically, I guess just did bring that up. :) > > Sammy Marks > > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:nDtJa.108234$YZ2.276268@rwcrnsc53... > > I wanted to make a couple of comments/observations on the Infineon

NASCAR > > race today. These are only my opinions and I express them to garneropen

Quoted text (16 lines)

> > discussion....if you also have an opinion? > > > > In roughly the last two weeks, Jeff Gordon has raised the > > bar.......twice.......in my opinion of him as a great race car driver. > > > > I don't think there is any doubt that his performance in the Williams F1 > at > > Indianapolis showed just how good of race car driver he is. It even got > the > > F1 community talking about how good he drove the Williams. > > > > Today, he showed me that he is capable of becoming one of the greatest > > NASCAR drivers ever.....maybe the best ever (if he gets some luck in the > > next 10 years). Here's why I say that. > > > > I think he could have passed Robby (Gordon) if he wanted to. His car

was

Quoted text (7 lines)

> > equal to Robby's....and certainly his driving skills (anywhere, but > > certainly on a road course like Infineon where Jeff has set/broken all > > performance records in NASCAR) are better. But.....I think Jeff showed > the > > intelligence of assessing the situation in almost a brilliant > manner.....and > > decided not to press the issue and just take the second place trophy

(and > > valuable NASCAR points) and go to the next race. After all, Jeff has > > nothing to prove at Infineon (having won three times and led more laps > than > > any other current NASCAR driver....total). And, Robby had/has a ton to > > prove! Therefore, he was not going to let Jeff get by him.......no > > way....if he could avoid it. That sets the stage fordisaster.....usually > > for both drivers. And, I think Jeff figured the extra 10 points wasn't > > worth crashing both of them. > > > > There's two ways Jeff could have passed Robby: (1) Robby makes amistake > > and opens the door.....Jeff would have stepped right through it (andkept > > himself in position to do that). Or. (2) Jeff beats the door downwith > > his foot.....then steps through it! > > > > The problem is.....and Jeff rightfully figured this out......is that > number > > (2).....especially when the lead driver has more at stake than thesecond > > place driver......it has got a high degree of possibility that both > drivers > > crash.....if the second place driver starts "beating on doors!" > > > > What this tells me is that Jeff Gordon is thinking in the racecar.....and > > he's "thinking championships".....many of them. And, his history isthat > > when he goes after something (in racing), he gets it. That is a"maturity

Quoted text (10 lines)

> > level" that most race car drivers don't fully reach.....and many never > reach > > it. I'm not so sure even Dale Earnhardt (as much as I love that guy to > > death) even reached it (he would have though, eventually)? So, if Jeff > > Gordon manages to win a few more NASCAR Championships before he > > retires......maybe 4 or 5 more......that would pretty much make him the > best > > ever.....in my book at least. > > > > Today, he showed me that he's fully capable of doing that. Last week,

he

Quoted text (17 lines)

> > showed me he can friggin' drive any race car you put him in.....almost > > instantly....at world-class levels! > > > > Regards, > > > > Tom > > > > PS: I am not going to go into the controversy between Jeff and Robby > after > > the race.....over the "local yellow" pass that Robby made. Its not part > of > > my thoughts on Jeff.....its another subject entirely. > > > > > > > >

. And third, and what really chaps my hide, > didn't Jeff pass Kenseth (in a move that was incorrectly overruled)earlier > this season while racing back to the flag? I think it was *correctly* overruled if I remember right, but I didnt actually see it so im not sure.

The call (during the race) was that Jeff had illegally passed the leader (Busch I think it was) [to prevent Kenseth from getting a lap back]. After taking the yellow he *incorrectly* gave the lead back to Busch, *then* NASCAR ruled that Gordon wasn't the leader and Kenseth got his lap back. After a few days, NASCAR actually admitted it made a mistake on the call (a first!) and said that Jeff should have been scored as the leader and Kenseth shouldn't have got the lap back. If Kenseth wins the championship by the difference in points he gained on that race, it'll be a questionable championship - and a darn shame (particularly if there's a bowtie right behind him!). But NASCAR has now admitted that they are human and do make mistakes, so the cat is out of the bag. :) Personally, I think Jeff should have just held his P1 place behind the pacecar and if needed fudge the race off pit row rather than give any question on the legality of the move by allowing Busch (I think) to go by again. It was points racing (which seems to me that Jeff is doing that a lot lately), not "gentlemanly", and in accordinance with the rules. I'd say he's serious about getting championship #5 race wins be damned. I don't particularly like that last part, but I can understand the reasoning. Take it for what it's worth, if I was racing and had Gordon a lap down (by some miracle) early in the race (or late in the race with very few cars on the lead lap), I wouldn't be inclined to let him get a lap back and have him ruin my day either. And I'm a JG fan. :) On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 03:27:23 GMT, "frederickson" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted text (8 lines)

>. And third, and what really chaps my hide, >> didn't Jeff pass Kenseth (in a move that was incorrectly overruled) >earlier >> this season while racing back to the flag? > >I think it was *correctly* overruled if I remember right, but I didnt >actually see it so im not sure. >

From what it sounds like it would have been registered properly in N2003, since you are allowed to pass the leader before the S/F line. And then the game wouldnt have allowed anyone to pass Gordon once he crossed first. Yay papyrus. "Mike Donnelly Jr" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (44 lines)

> The call (during the race) was that Jeff had illegally passed the > leader (Busch I think it was) [to prevent Kenseth from getting a lap > back]. After taking the yellow he *incorrectly* gave the lead back to > Busch, *then* NASCAR ruled that Gordon wasn't the leader and Kenseth > got his lap back. > > After a few days, NASCAR actually admitted it made a mistake on the > call (a first!) and said that Jeff should have been scored as the > leader and Kenseth shouldn't have got the lap back. If Kenseth wins > the championship by the difference in points he gained on that race, > it'll be a questionable championship - and a darn shame (particularly > if there's a bowtie right behind him!). But NASCAR has now admitted > that they are human and do make mistakes, so the cat is out of the > bag. :) > > Personally, I think Jeff should have just held his P1 place behind the > pacecar and if needed fudge the race off pit row rather than give any > question on the legality of the move by allowing Busch (I think) to go > by again. > > It was points racing (which seems to me that Jeff is doing that a lot > lately), not "gentlemanly", and in accordinance with the rules. I'd > say he's serious about getting championship #5 race wins be damned. I > don't particularly like that last part, but I can understand the > reasoning. > > Take it for what it's worth, if I was racing and had Gordon a lap down > (by some miracle) early in the race (or late in the race with very few > cars on the lead lap), I wouldn't be inclined to let him get a lap > back and have him ruin my day either. And I'm a JG fan. :) > > > On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 03:27:23 GMT, "frederickson" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >. And third, and what really chaps my hide, > >> didn't Jeff pass Kenseth (in a move that was incorrectly overruled) > >earlier > >> this season while racing back to the flag? > > > >I think it was *correctly* overruled if I remember right, but I didnt > >actually see it so im not sure. > > > >

"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:cPIJa.71038$vq.15355@sccrnsc04: > My thoughts exactly.......better expressed by you. Thanks, SR. > > Tom > All well and good....what happens if he looses the Nextel errr Winston Cup Championship by 10 points???? dave henrie

Then he would be mad...but it is unlikely he could have made the pass. It is more likely he would have lost 50 points or more if he tried to make the pass and did not succeed. "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (11 lines)

> "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in > news:cPIJa.71038$vq.15355@sccrnsc04: > > > My thoughts exactly.......better expressed by you. Thanks, SR. > > > > Tom > > > All well and good....what happens if he looses the Nextel errr Winston > Cup Championship by 10 points???? > > dave henrie

True. If he finishes 2nd by 10 points then the Infineon race was still important. Had he tried to pass RG and finished lower, he may not have even finished 2nd in the final standings. 2nd will pay a ton at NY this year too. Not only that, he still has legacy work to do, you see Dale Earnhardt did win 7 titles, but has anyone looked at his 2nds and 3rds (in final points standings)? He had a hand full of them too making him the legend that he is, in memoriam of course. A 2nd in final points the year his high profile divorce was final AND after a couple of seasons where he had long winless streaks (for him) would be just fine for his stock I would think. "Stuart Becktell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:XIWJa.25091$[email hidden]... > Then he would be mad...but it is unlikely he could have made the pass. Itis

Quoted text (12 lines)

> more likely he would have lost 50 points or more if he tried to make the > pass and did not succeed. > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in > > news:cPIJa.71038$vq.15355@sccrnsc04: > > > > > My thoughts exactly.......better expressed by you. Thanks, SR. > > > > > > Tom > > > > > All well and good....what happens if he looses the Nextel errr

Winston > > Cup Championship by 10 points???? > > > > dave henrie > >

"Kyle Roberts" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:jQuJa.20556$[email hidden]... > > LOL. I said greatest WHINER. > > Kyle I'd give that award to Mr. Dale Earnhardt "I wanna change qualifying rules so I can start higher on road courses" Junior. <attempts to put on flame retardant suit.....damn! it doesn't fit!>

"Sammy Marks" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:JfMJa.122878$[email hidden]... > Same race, same driver, different topic: His whining about R. Gordonpassing > under yellow. First of all, it doesn't concern Jeff, as it had no bearingon > his position whatsoever. Second, although there is a gentleman'sagreement, > the move was perfectly legal. Which is exactly what Jeff said, BUT, Robbie didn't earn that position. Harvick followed the gentlemen's agreement by slowing down, as did 41 other drivers, but Robbie decided to take advantage of other's good sportsmanship by passing other cars while they slowed down for the caution. The point is, Robbie did not earn that spot by racing, he stole it by not following an agreement made between all drivers for safety reasons. What does this mean in the future. I'd like to see drivers sneak past Robbie on a late race caution at Daytona but they won't because all of those 42 other drivers have more class than R.Gordon. > And third, and what really chaps my hide, > didn't Jeff pass Kenseth (in a move that was incorrectly overruled)earlier > this season while racing back to the flag? So it's o.k. for him, just not > anybody else? Not even close to the same situation. The issue you are referring to was about letting lapped cars get their laps back. What Robbie did on sunday was poor sportsmanship just to gain a position and nothing more. > Yes, he's talented, but he certainly gives those of us who > don't like him a lot of reasons to not like him. I won't even bring up his > recent shoving people (the #40 twice, and the #22) out of the way. Well, > technically, I guess just did bring that up. :) Those are reasons to not like JG? So, I guess you didn't like Dale Earnhardt either eh?

I disagree on your "not even close to the same situation". Passing under yellow: either you do or you don't, whatever your reason. Had Nascar let his pass of Kenseth stand, Gordon would have improved his position under yellow, whatever his rationale. And to correct sombody's early post, it was Kenseth he passed in order not let someone else have a lap back (memory fails me on who that was.) And you're correct, I did not like Earnhardt - on the track. This doesn't mean I didn't think he was one of the greatest drivers ever, which he was; in fact, I was surprised at my own sense of loss when he passed away. But respecting a drivers talent, and rooting for a driver are two different things. Gordon's a talented driver, but I will always root againt him. Sammy "Tim Miser" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "Sammy Marks" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:JfMJa.122878$[email hidden]... > > Same race, same driver, different topic: His whining about R. Gordon > passing > > under yellow. First of all, it doesn't concern Jeff, as it had nobearing

Quoted text (7 lines)

> on > > his position whatsoever. Second, although there is a gentleman's > agreement, > > the move was perfectly legal. > > Which is exactly what Jeff said, BUT, Robbie didn't earn that position. > Harvick followed the gentlemen's agreement by slowing down, as did 41

other > drivers, but Robbie decided to take advantage of other's goodsportsmanship > by passing other cars while they slowed down for the caution. The pointis, > Robbie did not earn that spot by racing, he stole it by not following an > agreement made between all drivers for safety reasons. > > What does this mean in the future. I'd like to see drivers sneak past > Robbie on a late race caution at Daytona but they won't because all ofthose

Quoted text (7 lines)

> 42 other drivers have more class than R.Gordon. > > > > And third, and what really chaps my hide, > > didn't Jeff pass Kenseth (in a move that was incorrectly overruled) > earlier > > this season while racing back to the flag? So it's o.k. for him, just

not

Quoted text (8 lines)

> > anybody else? > > Not even close to the same situation. The issue you are referring to was > about letting lapped cars get their laps back. What Robbie did on sunday > was poor sportsmanship just to gain a position and nothing more. > > > Yes, he's talented, but he certainly gives those of us who > > don't like him a lot of reasons to not like him. I won't even bring up

his

Quoted text (10 lines)

> > recent shoving people (the #40 twice, and the #22) out of the way. Well, > > technically, I guess just did bring that up. :) > > Those are reasons to not like JG? So, I guess you didn't like Dale > Earnhardt either eh? > > > > >