F1C Still Not Convinced

Back and forth, I know, I seem to keep changing my opinion. But there is something still wrong here. It is either ride height or suspension travel or something (using the included setups, 2002 Nurburgring), because at the slightest provocation my inside front tire will come off the ground and stop rotating, usually followed shortly thereafter by a spin. I have seen them get very light in real life F1 on TV but this is not at all the same thing, I don't even need to be pulling a lot of G's. Also locking up the fronts frequently leads to a spin, and touching the curbs often leads to a sudden spin. Not logical. The first two situations should result in a hellacious push, not a spin. The second situation feels like I grounded the tub, but when I look at the telemetry that is not the case. Another example, in some places if I touch the curb at speed, throttle on and no brakes, the front wheel stops spinning. How can that possibly be right? Using high rate physics, haven't tried it without yet, but did try with and without extra tire sampling and that didn't make a difference. I have no indication of any control problem, all the axes look fine. I know I'm not the first person to mention this either. Something is screwed up, either with the new physics or the included setups.

Whew, same problem here. Glad it's not just me. --------------------------------------------- Thanks, Aaron Markham RATE MY CAR AT CARDOMAIN.COM! http://www.cardomain.com/id/amarkham *RIP Ayrton Senna & Dale Earnhardt*

Since bumpers aren't modeled, you can get infinite spring rates whenthe chassis grounds. Maybe it doesn't show in the telemetry. It is one of the issues addressed in the patch (if you've read the readme). Wheels rotating at odd moments (like when the car is stopped or stuck--I mean the fronts rotating) might be graphics bugs independent of the physivs at work. "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:bdo91a$ur5mv$[email hidden]... > Back and forth, I know, I seem to keep changing my opinion. But there is > something still wrong here. It is either ride height or suspension travel > or something (using the included setups, 2002 Nurburgring), because at the > slightest provocation my inside front tire will come off the ground andstop > rotating, usually followed shortly thereafter by a spin. I have seen them > get very light in real life F1 on TV but this is not at all the samething, > I don't even need to be pulling a lot of G's. Also locking up the fronts > frequently leads to a spin, and touching the curbs often leads to a sudden > spin. Not logical. The first two situations should result in ahellacious > push, not a spin. The second situation feels like I grounded the tub, but > when I look at the telemetry that is not the case. Another example, insome > places if I touch the curb at speed, throttle on and no brakes, the front > wheel stops spinning. How can that possibly be right? Using high rate > physics, haven't tried it without yet, but did try with and without extra > tire sampling and that didn't make a difference. I have no indication of > any control problem, all the axes look fine. I know I'm not the first > person to mention this either. Something is screwed up, either with thenew > physics or the included setups. > >

> Since bumpers aren't modeled, you can get infinite spring rates whenthe > chassis grounds. Maybe it doesn't show in the telemetry. It is one ofthe > issues addressed in the patch (if you've read the readme). Wheelsrotating > at odd moments (like when the car is stopped or stuck--I mean the fronts > rotating) might be graphics bugs independent of the physivs at work. There's a patch?

I have the exact same problem as you. There is something wrong with F1C. Wheels lock, back end spins when it shouldn't, no grip on kerbs at all - one touch and you're off! I've spent the whole weekend on it (concentrating on A1 Ring) trying to convince myself not to take it back to the store. I can't get out of the 1'12"s. On F12K2 I was in the 1'09"s. I'll post more details on my experience later. Iain "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:bdo91a$ur5mv$[email hidden]... > Back and forth, I know, I seem to keep changing my opinion. But there is > something still wrong here. It is either ride height or suspension travel > or something (using the included setups, 2002 Nurburgring), because at the > slightest provocation my inside front tire will come off the ground andstop > rotating, usually followed shortly thereafter by a spin. I have seen them > get very light in real life F1 on TV but this is not at all the samething, > I don't even need to be pulling a lot of G's. Also locking up the fronts > frequently leads to a spin, and touching the curbs often leads to a sudden > spin. Not logical. The first two situations should result in ahellacious > push, not a spin. The second situation feels like I grounded the tub, but > when I look at the telemetry that is not the case. Another example, insome > places if I touch the curb at speed, throttle on and no brakes, the front > wheel stops spinning. How can that possibly be right? Using high rate > physics, haven't tried it without yet, but did try with and without extra > tire sampling and that didn't make a difference. I have no indication of > any control problem, all the axes look fine. I know I'm not the first > person to mention this either. Something is screwed up, either with thenew > physics or the included setups. > > -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----

Yes, the readme has been posted. The patch will be up as soon as it's vetted by Sierra. "Damien Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:bdommi$v27pc$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (11 lines)

> > Since bumpers aren't modeled, you can get infinite spring rates whenthe > > chassis grounds. Maybe it doesn't show in the telemetry. It is one of > the > > issues addressed in the patch (if you've read the readme). Wheels > rotating > > at odd moments (like when the car is stopped or stuck--I mean the fronts > > rotating) might be graphics bugs independent of the physivs at work. > > There's a patch? > >

"Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:oDULa.18640$[email hidden]... > Yes, the readme has been posted. The patch will be up as soon as it's > vetted by Sierra. Sierra???

"Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:oDULa.18640$[email hidden]... > Yes, the readme has been posted. The patch will be up as soon as it's > vetted by Sierra. > Where is it posted? I can't see any mention of F1C on either EA or ISI's site. Thanks! Ash http://www.siroccoracing.com

Ok, at least it's not me. Can anyone do donuts in the gravel traps? I also notice that when I'm rolling back onto the track, when my rears hit the pavement, I spin. No gas applied, just rolling along. I think the spin modeling is kinda wonky. Other then that I'm very happy with it. Although I haven't tried to many online races, the spin thing gets very frustrating. ZZ

"Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<oDULa.18640$[email hidden]>...

Quoted text (16 lines)

> Yes, the readme has been posted. The patch will be up as soon as it's > vetted by Sierra. > > "Damien Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:bdommi$v27pc$[email hidden]... > > > Since bumpers aren't modeled, you can get infinite spring rates whenthe > > > chassis grounds. Maybe it doesn't show in the telemetry. It is one of > the > > > issues addressed in the patch (if you've read the readme). Wheels > rotating > > > at odd moments (like when the car is stopped or stuck--I mean the fronts > > > rotating) might be graphics bugs independent of the physivs at work. > > > > There's a patch? > > > >

Isn't he referring to F1C....not Nr2003. AFAIK there is no patch for a game that was released a week ago.

On Sun, 29 Jun 2003 22:57:47 -0400, "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted text (18 lines)

>Back and forth, I know, I seem to keep changing my opinion. But there is >something still wrong here. It is either ride height or suspension travel >or something (using the included setups, 2002 Nurburgring), because at the >slightest provocation my inside front tire will come off the ground and stop >rotating, usually followed shortly thereafter by a spin. I have seen them >get very light in real life F1 on TV but this is not at all the same thing, >I don't even need to be pulling a lot of G's. Also locking up the fronts >frequently leads to a spin, and touching the curbs often leads to a sudden >spin. Not logical. The first two situations should result in a hellacious >push, not a spin. The second situation feels like I grounded the tub, but >when I look at the telemetry that is not the case. Another example, in some >places if I touch the curb at speed, throttle on and no brakes, the front >wheel stops spinning. How can that possibly be right? Using high rate >physics, haven't tried it without yet, but did try with and without extra >tire sampling and that didn't make a difference. I have no indication of >any control problem, all the axes look fine. I know I'm not the first >person to mention this either. Something is screwed up, either with the new >physics or the included setups.

Personally I think the problem is caused by the controller lag. If you select the top-down view, and steer from lock to lock, you'll notice a .25 sec delay. I've a feeling the same occurs when you release the throttle/brake. I've "solved" it by putting more rearwing, weight to front, and brakebias to front. I like the explanation in the manual, BTW (Dutch version) If I put the brakebias to the front, the braking distance will be longer. But if I put it to the back, it will get....errr.....longer.... <g> Remco

On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:27:18 +0100, "Iain Mackenzie" <[email hidden]> wrote: >I have the exact same problem as you. There is something wrong with F1C. >Wheels lock, back end spins when it shouldn't, no grip on kerbs at all - one >touch and you're off! Whoa, that sounds sort of like, um, what's the word... real F1? FWIW, I use the kurbs at several tracks without an issue. It's a matter of knowing which you can use and which you can't. The only problem I have with the curbs is that, unlike real life, the high ones won't do significant damage to your front wing (as Button discovered in qualifying this past week). >I've spent the whole weekend on it (concentrating on A1 Ring) trying to >convince myself not to take it back to the store. I can't get out of the >1'12"s. On F12K2 I was in the 1'09"s. >I'll post more details on my experience later. Your times will be slower because the aero model works in a convincing manner now. Just slow down more, and stay off the gas longer, it's sort of like driving a real car no? In F12k2 you could take corners flat out that would see a real car spinning wildly into the barriers, now you have to actually use that left pedal and feather the throttle on the exits (assuming you have TC off or on low), it's kind of nice. If you're having trouble with the default setups just try running more wing, a stiffer front bar/softer rear bar, or less brake pressure and a higher diff. Most tracks in modern F1 are full wing tracks where you want every ounce of aero downforce and as soft a rear bar as you can run to maximize grip out of slow corners. Jason

"Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 11:27:18 +0100, "Iain Mackenzie" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >I have the exact same problem as you. There is something wrong with F1C. > >Wheels lock, back end spins when it shouldn't, no grip on kerbs at all -one

Quoted text (27 lines)

> >touch and you're off! > > Whoa, that sounds sort of like, um, what's the word... real F1? > > FWIW, I use the kurbs at several tracks without an issue. It's a > matter of knowing which you can use and which you can't. The only > problem I have with the curbs is that, unlike real life, the high ones > won't do significant damage to your front wing (as Button discovered > in qualifying this past week). > > >I've spent the whole weekend on it (concentrating on A1 Ring) trying to > >convince myself not to take it back to the store. I can't get out of the > >1'12"s. On F12K2 I was in the 1'09"s. > >I'll post more details on my experience later. > > Your times will be slower because the aero model works in a convincing > manner now. Just slow down more, and stay off the gas longer, it's > sort of like driving a real car no? In F12k2 you could take corners > flat out that would see a real car spinning wildly into the barriers, > now you have to actually use that left pedal and feather the throttle > on the exits (assuming you have TC off or on low), it's kind of nice. > > If you're having trouble with the default setups just try running more > wing, a stiffer front bar/softer rear bar, or less brake pressure and > a higher diff. Most tracks in modern F1 are full wing tracks where > you want every ounce of aero downforce and as soft a rear bar as you > can run to maximize grip out of slow corners.

-------- You do have to run different-style setups than would have worked in F12K2. More front-loaded weight bias, brake bias, shock and aero settings, etc.. I see that as a good thing, whether they've got it right this time or just a different version of wrong. Moving the weight bias forward helps with the flying inside front wheels, and also keeps the car from spinning under braking so easily. Which makes sense, given the lessened influence of downforce in overall tire loadings - the end with the most weight wants to keep going straight. Makes these things steer with the pedals a lot more now, ala you-know-what. Some questions remain, though. Graphed the slip curve of the F1C '02 tires vs the F12K2 tires and that's a truly odd-looking curve, especially in the twenty data points or so just past peak grip; drops a bit, stabilizes, then a bigger drop. Grip should indeed fall off more suddenly than F12K2, so that's good, but it still looks a bit strange. And I still have doubts about the CG-weight shift after rolling the car at the Ring by just hitting the curbing while sliding. D.C. tested this for me yesterday and his results were slightly better, if less spectacular... ;-) SB PS - running low 1:10's with F1C at the A1 Ring, and have seen low :09's online, which is in pretty much line with real '02 times.

On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 12:45:56 -0400, "Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Some questions remain, though. Graphed the slip curve of the F1C '02 tires >vs the F12K2 tires and that's a truly odd-looking curve, especially in the >twenty data points or so just past peak grip; drops a bit, stabilizes, then >a bigger drop. Grip should indeed fall off more suddenly than F12K2, so >that's good, but it still looks a bit strange. I'm not particularly knowledgable on tire modelling, but could that have anything to do with maybe representing grooved tires better? > And I still have doubts >about the CG-weight shift after rolling the car at the Ring by just hitting >the curbing while sliding. D.C. tested this for me yesterday and his >results were slightly better, if less spectacular... ;-) Is it possible that part of the problem with high curbs is poor track modelling? Jason

[email hidden] (Jason Moyer) wro > Is it possible that part of the problem with high curbs is poor track > modelling? > > Jason > is it possible I haven't got me newsreader configured properly? just testing...you may now return to your thread.. dh

"Jason Moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 12:45:56 -0400, "Steve Blankenship" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Some questions remain, though. Graphed the slip curve of the F1C '02tires > >vs the F12K2 tires and that's a truly odd-looking curve, especially inthe > >twenty data points or so just past peak grip; drops a bit, stabilizes,then > >a bigger drop. Grip should indeed fall off more suddenly than F12K2, so > >that's good, but it still looks a bit strange. > > I'm not particularly knowledgable on tire modelling, but could that > have anything to do with maybe representing grooved tires better? Dunno, but it sure looks odd. The sort of thing that if it popped up in real-world testing, you'd wonder what the heck was causing THAT! > > And I still have doubts > >about the CG-weight shift after rolling the car at the Ring by justhitting > >the curbing while sliding. D.C. tested this for me yesterday and his > >results were slightly better, if less spectacular... ;-) > > Is it possible that part of the problem with high curbs is poor track > modelling? Poor track modeling? Surely you jest. ;-) Yeah, considered that, but the way it happened suggests that wasn't the culprit, and the rolling sort of combines with the wheel-carrying to make me a bit suspicious of something being perhaps a wee bit off.

Sorry, got off on the wrong thread. Was talking about the N2003 patch (but, of course, nobody else was - doh!). "Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:bdp6t6$v1cqf$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (10 lines)

> > "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:oDULa.18640$[email hidden]... > > Yes, the readme has been posted. The patch will be up as soon as it's > > vetted by Sierra. > > Sierra??? > > >

Yes. Sor-EEEE! "Lawman_02766" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in messagenews:<oDULa.18640$[email hidden]>... > > Yes, the readme has been posted. The patch will be up as soon as it's > > vetted by Sierra. > > > > "Damien Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:bdommi$v27pc$[email hidden]... > > > > Since bumpers aren't modeled, you can get infinite spring rateswhenthe > > > > chassis grounds. Maybe it doesn't show in the telemetry. It is oneof > > the > > > > issues addressed in the patch (if you've read the readme). Wheels > > rotating > > > > at odd moments (like when the car is stopped or stuck--I mean thefronts

Quoted text (8 lines)

> > > > rotating) might be graphics bugs independent of the physivs at work. > > > > > > There's a patch? > > > > > > > > Isn't he referring to F1C....not Nr2003. AFAIK there is no patch for a > game that was released a week ago.

Okay, I'm still dizzy, but this problem is not unknown to The Powers That Be, and, yes, eventually, there will be a patch that will make everything Good and True. "ZZ Busch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:wnVLa.494$[email hidden]... > Ok, at least it's not me. Can anyone do donuts in the gravel traps? I also > notice that when I'm rolling back onto the track, when my rears hit the > pavement, I spin. No gas applied, just rolling along. I think the spin > modeling is kinda wonky. Other then that I'm very happy with it. AlthoughI > haven't tried to many online races, the spin thing gets very frustrating. > > ZZ > > >

"Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:bdo91a$ur5mv$[email hidden]... > Back and forth, I know, I seem to keep changing my opinion. But there is > something still wrong here. I agree - huge oddities in there that just dont make sense and surely shouldnt be there at the 5th time of asking!!! (6th if you include SCGT and 7th if you include the Nascar Title!!!) Netcode's improved a bit - sure - but can I race against a field of 12 with virtually no lag down a crappy modem like I could 4 years ago with GPL? An improvement but certainly not up to scratch imho. I'm still not convinced about the netcode's flaws being an FIA issue. Either they're allowed to do netcode - or they are not. I'm fairly sure the FIA wouldnt say "you can do netcode - but just dont do it very well". Dedicated servers are nice (and a legal issue as they could be considered a formula one 'broadcast') - but GPL doesnt NEED them - and nor should a title produced 4 years later. Sound IS good ( Sorry for doubting you Redted !! ) - external sounds especially. Traction control grumbles are good - but I really shouldnt get them on every gear change!! Another bug for the list I'd suggest Physics - imho improved a little but some new very strange oddities in there. Words of a patch suprise me a great deal but I'll take Steve's word for it Interface - unchanged and thus still very clunky and slow. But oh dear THE TRACKS. I mean - I'm doing a wheeley onto my front wheels braking into the Ascari Chicane. I'm still going downhill on the exit of Club and uphill between the first chicane and granda curva at Monza. This is just sci-fi track modelling. Time and budget constraints are one thing but surely they can flick thru a few onboard vids. From a map perspective I'd think the track look pretty damn spot on - but the elevation and camber are just way off in so many places :( I can see SO much potential here - and ISI clearly have the depth and scope of talent to produce something very special. I'd like to think that EA are holding them back, but when they've been at this for 3 or more years now, surely they could have got some of these things right by now. Doug

> > I agree - huge oddities in there that just dont make sense and surely > shouldnt be there at the 5th time of asking!!! (6th if you include SCGTand > 7th if you include the Nascar Title!!!) > > Netcode's improved a bit - sure - but can I race against a field of 12with > virtually no lag down a crappy modem like I could 4 years ago with GPL?An > improvement but certainly not up to scratch imho. I'm still not convinced > about the netcode's flaws being an FIA issue. Either they're allowed to do > netcode - or they are not. I'm fairly sure the FIA wouldnt say "you can do > netcode - but just dont do it very well". Dedicated servers are nice (anda > legal issue as they could be considered a formula one 'broadcast') - butGPL > doesnt NEED them - and nor should a title produced 4 years later. > > Sound IS good ( Sorry for doubting you Redted !! ) - external sounds > especially. Traction control grumbles are good - but I really shouldntget

Quoted text (11 lines)

> them on every gear change!! Another bug for the list I'd suggest > > Physics - imho improved a little but some new very strange oddities in > there. Words of a patch suprise me a great deal but I'll take Steve's word > for it > > Interface - unchanged and thus still very clunky and slow. > > But oh dear THE TRACKS. I mean - I'm doing a wheeley onto my front wheels > braking into the Ascari Chicane. I'm still going downhill on the exit of > Club and uphill between the first chicane and granda curva at Monza.

This > is just sci-fi track modelling. Time and budget constraints are one thing > but surely they can flick thru a few onboard vids. From a map perspective > I'd think the track look pretty damn spot on - but the elevation andcamber > are just way off in so many places :( > > I can see SO much potential here - and ISI clearly have the depth andscope > of talent to produce something very special. I'd like to think that EA are > holding them back, but when they've been at this for 3 or more years now, > surely they could have got some of these things right by now. > > Doug > Go ahead, say it. It's what this long, laborious tete a tete is all about, isn't it? It's not about this wheel spinning at this angle, or the way the car goes over a curb, or the way the tracks are modeled or how multiplayer works. It's not all about that. Hidden under all this back and forth, forth and back, is the simple fact that...... <spoiler below> nothing is better than GPL! Face it. Alanb

> nothing is better than GPL! Face it. As much as I enjoy driving GPL, I'd rather drive F1C on completely ficticious tracks these days. The physics and graphics are just soooo much more convincing and immersive. I should add that one of my pet hates is low frame rates and GPLs 36fps feels like a slideshow compared to N2003 or F1C.

> Netcode's improved a bit - sure - but can I race against a field of 12with > virtually no lag down a crappy modem like I could 4 years ago with GPL?An > improvement but certainly not up to scratch imho. I'm still not convinced > about the netcode's flaws being an FIA issue. Either they're allowed to do > netcode - or they are not. I'm fairly sure the FIA wouldnt say "you can do > netcode - but just dont do it very well". Dedicated servers are nice (anda > legal issue as they could be considered a formula one 'broadcast') - butGPL > doesnt NEED them - and nor should a title produced 4 years later. It's pretty good on a modem if the server is on a good connection with a fast PC. I've only had one big race on my 33.6k in F1C and that was with 15 drivers. One of the cars was turned 90 degrees on the grid at the start of the race, but as soon as I got close to him, his position was accurate. I think there's room for optimisation. Bit like comparing BF1942 to Half-Life - BF1942 uses a lot more bandwidth (though I guess the map areas are much larger)

"Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:rK1Ma.20041$[email hidden]... > Sorry, got off on the wrong thread. Was talking about the N2003 patch(but, > of course, nobody else was - doh!). > Are we to expect an F1C patch then - or was it a crossed wires situation? Doug

Both. That is, a N2003 patch is imminent, and a future F1C patch will address some behavioral and graphical anomalies already referenced (tyres, kerbs), altho, as noted, F1C is more a labor of love than a giant profit centre for EA and/or ISI, so don't expect them to be on it like flies on rye. "Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:bdrl37$vi4ql$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (13 lines)

> > "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:rK1Ma.20041$[email hidden]... > > Sorry, got off on the wrong thread. Was talking about the N2003 patch > (but, > > of course, nobody else was - doh!). > > > > Are we to expect an F1C patch then - or was it a crossed wires situation? > > Doug > >

"Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Some questions remain, though. Graphed the slip curve of the F1C '02tires > vs the F12K2 tires and that's a truly odd-looking curve, especially in the > twenty data points or so just past peak grip; drops a bit, stabilizes,then > a bigger drop. Grip should indeed fall off more suddenly than F12K2, so > that's good, but it still looks a bit strange. And I still have doubts > about the CG-weight shift after rolling the car at the Ring by justhitting > the curbing while sliding. D.C. tested this for me yesterday and his > results were slightly better, if less spectacular... ;-) > Could you bung these up as a JPG somewhere - would make interesting viewing Doug

"Doug Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:bds96u$1080hv$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (7 lines)

> > "Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > Some questions remain, though. Graphed the slip curve of the F1C '02 > tires > > vs the F12K2 tires and that's a truly odd-looking curve, especially in

the

Quoted text (12 lines)

> > twenty data points or so just past peak grip; drops a bit, stabilizes, > then > > a bigger drop. Grip should indeed fall off more suddenly than F12K2, so > > that's good, but it still looks a bit strange. And I still have doubts > > about the CG-weight shift after rolling the car at the Ring by just > hitting > > the curbing while sliding. D.C. tested this for me yesterday and his > > results were slightly better, if less spectacular... ;-) > > > > > Could you bung these up as a JPG somewhere - would make interesting

viewing > > Doug No problem - have a look at: http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/~hg/forum/viewtopic.php?t=62854 Cheers, SB

"Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:bdo91a$ur5mv$[email hidden]... > Back and forth, I know, I seem to keep changing my opinion. But there is > something still wrong here. It is either ride height or suspension travel > or something (using the included setups, 2002 Nurburgring), because at the > slightest provocation my inside front tire will come off the ground andstop > rotating, usually followed shortly thereafter by a spin. I have seen them > get very light in real life F1 on TV but this is not at all the samething, > I don't even need to be pulling a lot of G's. Also locking up the fronts > frequently leads to a spin, and touching the curbs often leads to a sudden > spin. Not logical. The first two situations should result in ahellacious > push, not a spin. The second situation feels like I grounded the tub, but > when I look at the telemetry that is not the case. Another example, insome > places if I touch the curb at speed, throttle on and no brakes, the front > wheel stops spinning. How can that possibly be right? Using high rate > physics, haven't tried it without yet, but did try with and without extra > tire sampling and that didn't make a difference. I have no indication of > any control problem, all the axes look fine. I know I'm not the first > person to mention this either. Something is screwed up, either with thenew > physics or the included setups. Same here. I've moved the weight of the car forward to max, maxed out front wing, made the front roll bar soft as possible, used min ride height, and super-soft tires - the front inside will still not stay on the ground. ????? -Phasor

> Same here. I've moved the weight of the car forward to max, maxed outfront > wing, made the front roll bar soft as possible, used min ride height, and > super-soft tires - the front inside will still not stay on the ground. Check your brake pedal's calibration. I had that "problem," and it turned out that my brake pedal was reporting being just a tiny bit depressed when fully up. That produced just enough brake pressure to stop the inside wheel when there was enough lateral weight transfer. Alan

> Same here. I've moved the weight of the car forward to max, maxed outfront > wing, made the front roll bar soft as possible, used min ride height, and > super-soft tires - the front inside will still not stay on the ground. Softening the rear anti-roll bar also helps to fix it.