F1C - YOU MUST DO THIS!!!

Guys, Last night I was trying to get rid of the arms, and I changed the moving steering wheel setting from 1 to 0. It didn't do what I expected at all! With it set to 1, which is the default, I was having a hard time driving. I noticed that there was a delay between my wheel, and the wheel in the game. With it set to 0 this delay is gone. The wheel still moves, and the game looks exactly as before, except the delay is gone, and the car handles soooooooo much better!! This took me from not being able to complete 5 laps without going off, to normal proper driving. This game is now as good as GPL, IMO. What I don't understand is what they were trying to achieve with this setting, and why they shipped the game with the default set like this!! Also... for a higher frame rate, turn V-sync off. Also... I found that having the pit crew on anything but the lowest setting had a huge frame rate hit, even when out on the track. R.

> > With it set to 0 this delay is gone. The wheel still moves, and the game > looks exactly as before, except the delay is gone, and the car handles > soooooooo much better!! > Great! Must try this, I've always felt that there was some delay. Thanks! Ash http://www.siroccoracing.com

"Richard S Beckett" wrote...

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> Guys, > > <snip> > With it set to 0 this delay is gone. The wheel still > moves, and the game looks exactly as before, except > the delay is gone, and the car handles soooooooo > much better!!

Strange... indeed, had a quick try and it doesn't change a thing graphically (in "cockpit" view, that is), whereas control en response does seem more direct. Jan. =---

Please provide the steps to do this "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:MsyMa.2448$[email hidden]...

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> "Richard S Beckett" wrote... > > Guys, > > > > <snip> > > With it set to 0 this delay is gone. The wheel still > > moves, and the game looks exactly as before, except > > the delay is gone, and the car handles soooooooo > > much better!! > > Strange... indeed, had a quick try and it doesn't change a thing

graphically

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> (in "cockpit" view, that is), whereas control en response does seem more > direct. > > Jan. > =--- > >

"Richard S Beckett" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:bdu73k$9qg$[email hidden]: > Guys, > > Last night I was trying to get rid of the arms, and I changed the > moving steering wheel setting from 1 to 0. It didn't do what I > expected at all! > > With it set to 1, which is the default, I was having a hard time > driving. I noticed that there was a delay between my wheel, and the > wheel in the game. > > With it set to 0 this delay is gone. The wheel still moves, and the > game looks exactly as before, except the delay is gone, and the car > handles soooooooo much better!! > > This took me from not being able to complete 5 laps without going off, > to normal proper driving. > > This game is now as good as GPL, IMO. > > What I don't understand is what they were trying to achieve with this > setting, and why they shipped the game with the default set like > this!! > Ruddy brilliant... My guess is this setting has something to do with smoothing controller input for non-wheel users, in which case having it on by default probably makes sense in a strange sort of way. Us wheel-drivers are probably still heavily outnumbered. But why, oh why, no documentation on any of this??

"senojm23" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]: > Please provide the steps to do this > > OK, it's probably been a while since last time: In the F1C installation directory, there is a SAVE folder. In this folder, there is another folder named the same as your player. Inside THAT folder, there is a file named <playername>.plr . Open the file in notepad, wordpad or whatever, and you will find lots of stuff EA Sports and ISI obviously do not want us fiddling with -- so fiddle away!!

"senojm23" wrote... > Please provide the steps to do this It's a setting in the .PLR file, as Per points out, but I don't recall the exact wording for it. I'll let you know once I get off work tonight. You asked about the MOMO earlier.... you are using a negative setting for the Force Feedback strenght in the game, right? -Because all logitech users should. Jan. =---

> You asked about the MOMO earlier.... you are using a negative setting for > the Force Feedback strenght in the game, right? -Because all logitechusers > should. Yeah, except for original red LWFF users....

"Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:CLBMa.2925$[email hidden]:

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> "senojm23" wrote... >> Please provide the steps to do this > > It's a setting in the .PLR file, as Per points out, but I don't recall > the exact wording for it. I'll let you know once I get off work > tonight. >

It's called exactly what was written in the original message. You want a line that says Moving Steering Wheel="1" and simply change it to "0"

HOly shit you are right.... "Richard S Beckett" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:bdu73k$9qg$[email hidden]... > Guys, > > Last night I was trying to get rid of the arms, and I changed the moving > steering wheel setting from 1 to 0. It didn't do what I expected at all! > > With it set to 1, which is the default, I was having a hard time driving.I > noticed that there was a delay between my wheel, and the wheel in thegame.

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> > With it set to 0 this delay is gone. The wheel still moves, and the game > looks exactly as before, except the delay is gone, and the car handles > soooooooo much better!! > > This took me from not being able to complete 5 laps without going off, to > normal proper driving. > > This game is now as good as GPL, IMO. > > What I don't understand is what they were trying to achieve with this > setting, and why they shipped the game with the default set like this!! > > > Also... for a higher frame rate, turn V-sync off. > > Also... I found that having the pit crew on anything but the lowest

setting > had a huge frame rate hit, even when out on the track. > > R. > > >

Hmm, i posted this on simbin and some people are saying it only changes the wheel graphically, and does nothing to the actual steering..... I dont know what to think "Richard S Beckett" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:bdu73k$9qg$[email hidden]... > Guys, > > Last night I was trying to get rid of the arms, and I changed the moving > steering wheel setting from 1 to 0. It didn't do what I expected at all! > > With it set to 1, which is the default, I was having a hard time driving.I > noticed that there was a delay between my wheel, and the wheel in thegame.

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> > With it set to 0 this delay is gone. The wheel still moves, and the game > looks exactly as before, except the delay is gone, and the car handles > soooooooo much better!! > > This took me from not being able to complete 5 laps without going off, to > normal proper driving. > > This game is now as good as GPL, IMO. > > What I don't understand is what they were trying to achieve with this > setting, and why they shipped the game with the default set like this!! > > > Also... for a higher frame rate, turn V-sync off. > > Also... I found that having the pit crew on anything but the lowest

setting > had a huge frame rate hit, even when out on the track. > > R. > > >

"Richard S Beckett" wrote... > Guys, > <snip> Good tip, Richard. While I scanned the .plr file for that setting I noticed this one: "FFB rumble strip pull factor="-1.50000" // How strongly wheel pulls right/left when running over a rumble strip. Suggested range: -1.5 to 1.5." At that point I suddenly realised what was wrong with the way hitting a kerb in the game felt: it felt like hitting a rutt instead(1). Noticing the range of values, I began to suspect this was another "make of wheel" dependant setting. Surely the people at ISI wouldn't forget to automatically change the sign on this setting to be in accordance(2) with that of the force feedback strength setting (or get their signs wrong)? -Err... yes, they would actually. To test I set the FFB strenght to 100%(3) in the game ---> bug: no change in this .plr file setting. So I set: FFB rumble strip pull factor="1.50000" and checked. *Much* better, but the effect was too pronounced, IMO. So I reduced it to 0.75000, but then I still had to really steer to stay on flat rumblestrips, e.g. the outside one towards Coca Cola curve on the Nurburgring. Now it's at 0.50000 and I think that's a workable compromise. I also went ahead and fiddled a little with the other settings, the result of which is below(4) and gives me a convincing ride. These were arrived at with Overall Strenght at 100%, Spring Effect Strengh at 40% and Damping Effect Strenght at 40% in the MOMO wheel properties and are only included FYI. As always YMMV. So, recent Logitech users need to change the sign on this setting and may want to adapt its value to taste. Everybody else + red LWFF users must keep the sign, but may want to adapt this value to taste as well. Jan. =--- Rem.: (1): I tested running into steep kerbs at low speed without steering input and, indeed, the car would be drawn into the kerb instead of being pushed away from it. (2): in this case the opposite of the sign of the strenght setting (3): I use -100% because of my Logitech MOMO. (4): FFB rumble strip magnitude="0.50000" // How strong the rumble strip rumble is. Range 0.0 to 1.0, 0.0 disables effect. FFB rumble strip freq mult="0.60000" // Rumble stip frequency multiplier 1.0 = one rumble per wheel rev. FFB rumble strip wave type="2" // Type of wave to use for vibe: 0=Sine, 1=Square, 2=Triangle, 3=Sawtooth up, 4=Sawtooth down. FFB rumble strip pull factor="0.50000" // How strongly wheel pulls right/left when running over a rumble strip. Suggested range: -1.5 to 1.5. FFB rumble strip update thresh="0.07500" // Amount of change required to update rumble strip effect (0.0 - 1.0)

"Richard S Beckett" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:bdu73k$9qg$[email hidden]... > Guys,absabloody amazing!!!! Richard your'e a star. I just can't believ how much better it is with this setting. I was having loads of problems with turn in understeer and not being able to catch slide that I thought it was a combination or poor setups and me being crap. This setting completely changes the feel of the game for the better, I just can't believe that it A) not documented and B) not set as default. I've just spent that last hour going round the N1 and A1 rings and now I'm just having so much fun with the car when before I could hardly get round the track. Some Call Me Tim (who's now a very very happy racer)

On Wed, 2 Jul 2003 10:01:30 +0100, "Richard S Beckett" <[email hidden]> wrote: >With it set to 0 this delay is gone. The wheel still moves, and the game >looks exactly as before, except the delay is gone, and the car handles >soooooooo much better!! -WOW- Major improvement - Thanks! :) Andre

On Wed, 02 Jul 2003 19:22:53 GMT, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote: >"Richard S Beckett" wrote... >> Guys, >> <snip> > >Good tip, Richard.-snip- Good tip too, Jan :) F1C keeps getting better and better now :) Andre

Can someone please translate this into F1 2002? Thank you, Peter "Richard S Beckett" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:bdu73k$9qg$[email hidden]... > Guys, > > Last night I was trying to get rid of the arms, and I changed the moving > steering wheel setting from 1 to 0. It didn't do what I expected at all! > > With it set to 1, which is the default, I was having a hard time driving.I > noticed that there was a delay between my wheel, and the wheel in thegame.

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> > With it set to 0 this delay is gone. The wheel still moves, and the game > looks exactly as before, except the delay is gone, and the car handles > soooooooo much better!! > > This took me from not being able to complete 5 laps without going off, to > normal proper driving. > > This game is now as good as GPL, IMO. > > What I don't understand is what they were trying to achieve with this > setting, and why they shipped the game with the default set like this!! > > > Also... for a higher frame rate, turn V-sync off. > > Also... I found that having the pit crew on anything but the lowest

setting > had a huge frame rate hit, even when out on the track. > > R. > >

"pete" wrote... > Can someone please translate this into F1 2002? Same setting, AFAICT. See Per's replies for exact location of file and setting. Jan. =---

"Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:CLBMa.2925$[email hidden]...

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> "senojm23" wrote... > > Please provide the steps to do this > > It's a setting in the .PLR file, as Per points out, but I don't recall the > exact wording for it. I'll let you know once I get off work tonight. > > You asked about the MOMO earlier.... you are using a negative setting for > the Force Feedback strenght in the game, right? -Because all logitech

users > should. Okay, I'm being the tootal Noob here. Do I want to make the following line which currently looks like: FFB Gain="1.00000" Should it be: FFB Gain="-1.00000" Or, do I do this in the controller setup screen inside the sim? By the way, I'm using a Momo wheel and pedals.

You can set it in the menu. Set the force feedback strength slider to the left of center, that will give you negative strength settings. Also the rumble strip effect can be removed in the menu. It can't be fixed like Jan did, that requires following his procedure. But the effect can be shut off by setting force feedback effects to none. This does not turn off force feedback, it just turns off all the silly bumping and rumbling effects, including the rumble strip pull. I'm running my Momo Racing wheel right now with force type set to wheel, force effects set to none, and force strength set to -60%. Feels quite good to me. "Otis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:CLBMa.2925$[email hidden]... > > "senojm23" wrote... > > > Please provide the steps to do this > > > > It's a setting in the .PLR file, as Per points out, but I don't recall

the > > exact wording for it. I'll let you know once I get off work tonight. > > > > You asked about the MOMO earlier.... you are using a negative settingfor > > the Force Feedback strenght in the game, right? -Because all logitech > users > > should. > > Okay, I'm being the tootal Noob here. Do I want to make the followingline

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> which currently looks like: > > FFB Gain="1.00000" > > Should it be: > > FFB Gain="-1.00000" > > Or, do I do this in the controller setup screen inside the sim? > > By the way, I'm using a Momo wheel and pedals. > > >

> You can set it in the menu. Set the force feedback strength slider to the > left of center, that will give you negative strength settings. > > Also the rumble strip effect can be removed in the menu. It can't befixed > like Jan did, that requires following his procedure. But the effect canbe > shut off by setting force feedback effects to none. This does not turnoff > force feedback, it just turns off all the silly bumping and rumbling > effects, including the rumble strip pull. > > I'm running my Momo Racing wheel right now with force type set to wheel, > force effects set to none, and force strength set to -60%. Feels quitegood > to me. Hmm, the effects strength doesn't seem to have any effect on my momo - i.e. -1% feels just as strong as -100% - I've had to turn down the FF strength in the control panel. Turning it down in the game worked with my old wheel......weird

In article <hiGMa.3587$[email hidden]>, Jan Verschueren <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> "Richard S Beckett" wrote... > > Guys, > > <snip> > > Good tip, Richard. > > While I scanned the .plr file for that setting I noticed this one: > > "FFB rumble strip pull factor="-1.50000" // How strongly wheel pulls > right/left when running over a rumble strip. Suggested range: > -1.5 to 1.5."

It appears that the "jolt" setting should also be negative for MOMO wheels; ZZ on RaceSimCentral has determined this, and it seems to be right for my installation as well...

Just tried it....not a jot of difference for me (not that I had a problem to start with) I know a guy who has always complained about controller lag in F1 2002 on his PC so I'll let him know and see how he goes. Definitely not placebo effect?

Jan, I'm a bit confused by your signs. Are you saying that if FF strength in the game is set negative (like it is for the MSFF), then these values must be positive in the .PLR file? Thanks. R.

"Greg Dunn" wrote... > <snip> > It appears that the "jolt" setting should also be negative > for MOMO wheels; ZZ on RaceSimCentral has > determined this, and it seems to be right for my > installation as well... Thanks... good to get some confirmation. Why these settings aren't adjusted automatically in conjunction with the controller the game detects beats me, but at least we can change them. Jan. =---

"Damien Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:0UQMa.1693$[email hidden]... > Just tried it....not a jot of difference for me (not that I had a problemto > start with) I know a guy who has > always complained about controller lag in F1 2002 on his PC so I'll lethim > know and see how he goes. Definitely not placebo effect? No real difference here either; maybe it solves something that affects some controllers and not others? (Using an old original non-ff LWF through the gameport on my Audigy card.)

In article <jLTMa.4299$[email hidden]>, Jan Verschueren <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> "Greg Dunn" wrote... > > <snip> > > It appears that the "jolt" setting should also be negative > > for MOMO wheels; ZZ on RaceSimCentral has > > determined this, and it seems to be right for my > > installation as well... > > Thanks... good to get some confirmation. Why these settings aren't adjusted > automatically in conjunction with the controller the game detects beats me, > but at least we can change them.

I suspect the ISI guys may not have tested extensively with a MOMO? It doesn't feel completely wrong until after you change it -- then it's so much better that it's fairly obvious. :-)

I don't even think it needs to know what kind of controller you have, it should be able to determine the sign needed just by looking at which steering axis is left and which is right. I'm not a programmer so don't take my word for it, but I can't imagine it being any more complex than that. "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:jLTMa.4299$[email hidden]... > > Thanks... good to get some confirmation. Why these settings aren'tadjusted > automatically in conjunction with the controller the game detects beatsme,

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> but at least we can change them. > > Jan. > =--- > > > >

In article <be2epn$jjgf$[email hidden]>, Haqsau <[email hidden]> wrote: > I don't even think it needs to know what kind of controller you have, it > should be able to determine the sign needed just by looking at which > steering axis is left and which is right. I'm not a programmer so don't > take my word for it, but I can't imagine it being any more complex than > that. That makes sense -- unfortunately in-game my MOMO has the same steering axis assignment as my ACT Labs. I have players created for each wheel so I don't have to reset the buttons and pedals each time; often the first indication I have that the wrong player/wheel is active is when the brake doesn't work entering the first turn. :-) It's probably sillier yet; the old Logi red wheel had a pulley, whereas the MOMO has a gear. Maybe the coders forgot to reverse the polarity of the signal to the FFB motor?

Guys, Are you _sure_ this is this right? OK, at low speeds, you should be pushed off a steep kerb, but when you just clip on at high speed as you take a corner, I think it probably would pull the wheel to the side of the kerb. I was trying this out last night, and the pull (rather than a push) felt right. Even with the wheel set to pull, I found that I did "slide off" some kerbs. I'll have the definate answer for you on monday, as I'm racing my kart this weekend, so I'll try to spare enough concentration to feel which way the wheel pulls on a kerb. R.

Interestingly, GP3-2000 (not GP3) and GP4 have similar behaviour to F1C regarding hitting kerbs at high speed.

"Richard S Beckett" wrote... > Guys, > > Are you _sure_ this is this right? > <snip> There's the rub as far as the ISI way of going about things goes. You can't have sometimes this, sometimes that because they simulate what happens to the centering force with a fixed effect, rather than derive the values for the FF directly from what happens at the tyre contact patch. That saves CPU on the model and complexity in the trackbuilding (don't have to model the actual ridges on the kerbs). That also means any push or pull also acts on flat kerbs, which shouldn't display this characteristic, but like I said... can't have your cake (performance) and eat it (everything correctly simulated) this way. If you imagine a straight piece of rather steep kerb . Running two wheels on it while driving parallel along it you will feel a slight pull due to the "normal" force (reaction force to the car's weight) not acting normal to the the car (because that's tilted). That's the same principle as why a banked turn helps cornering. As soon as you put force into the kerb by turning into it, though, it will push back with a far greater magnitude than your "steady state" pull. Ergo, there may be cause for a slight pull, but in practical situations this never really arises. Perhaps when just grazing a curb like you explain, but in most instances we're going into them to avoid having to go around them and drive a tighter radius. When driving over a kerb, we're compressing the suspension and the tyre and the car would rather go straight on anyway, so any force felt in the steering wheel should be against de lock we hold on it, not pull the steering further in, IMO. So, yes, from my personal experience with kerbs (not in single seaters, let alone F1, but anyway) I'm pretty sure I'm feeling what I'm supposed to be feeling most of the time. Let me know how the karting went tho'. BTW: none of this has any effect on steep kerbs spinning one out in fast bends. I think factors like differential lock and the inside rear thread beying lifted off the ground play a much bigger roll than FF settings in this situation. Cheers, Jan. =---