Logitech momo vs Act-Labs rs

i'm planning on buying a new ff wheel now that i got the time to race again i was thinking about the act-labs complete system which is the ff wheel with shifter and the 3pedal unit but some people and reviews are making me doubt now i can't figure out which one one review says the momo (the red one) is the best and that the act-labs is even outperformed by the MicroCrap wheel -which i own right now but with no xp support - it sucks even more than it already did- the other says act-labs is still #1 and all the rest are just trying that's a hell of a lot of difference to me ... can i get some experiences from you guys btw, i want to buy the shifter as well, any thoughts on that? good, great, so-so? cheers 3dO

I have the Momo (leather) AND the Acts Lab Performance pedals. Great combo. I used to have the red Logitech wheel and although it was very good in its time, the Momo leather is better. Good luck "3dO" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3f0ee040$0$6524$[email hidden]... > i'm planning on buying a new ff wheel now that i got the time to raceagain > i was thinking about the act-labs complete system which is the ff wheelwith > shifter and the 3pedal unit > but some people and reviews are making me doubt > now i can't figure out which one > > one review says the momo (the red one) is the best and that the act-labsis

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> even outperformed by the MicroCrap wheel > -which i own right now but with no xp support - it sucks even more than it > already did- > the other says act-labs is still #1 and all the rest are just trying > that's a hell of a lot of difference to me ... > > can i get some experiences from you guys > > btw, i want to buy the shifter as well, any thoughts on that? > good, great, so-so? > > > cheers > > 3dO > >

I've got the best of both worlds, Momo Force wheel (new red one) and act-labs peddles and GPL usb shifter. Must admit though most of the time I use the Momo peddles (complete with requiste squash ball instead of a brake spring). Both Momo and GPL shifter come very highly recomended. Some Call Me Tim

Never tried the momo, but the resolution on the ForceRS is very poor (about 100 points from lock to lock). This makes the steering input notchy (wheel on screen moves in small jumps when turning slowly) to the point it makes it affect consistency. The older wheels were better but the newer ones (July 01) suffer from this. Stock pedals are poor as well (gas pedal binds), but can be modified. Wheel is sturdy though, and the motor is strong (almost too strong, feels notchy even with FF turned off). Would like to try a momo. ;-) HTH Ken 3dO wrote:

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> i'm planning on buying a new ff wheel now that i got the time to race again > i was thinking about the act-labs complete system which is the ff wheel with > shifter and the 3pedal unit > but some people and reviews are making me doubt > now i can't figure out which one > > one review says the momo (the red one) is the best and that the act-labs is > even outperformed by the MicroCrap wheel > -which i own right now but with no xp support - it sucks even more than it > already did- > the other says act-labs is still #1 and all the rest are just trying > that's a hell of a lot of difference to me ... > > can i get some experiences from you guys > > btw, i want to buy the shifter as well, any thoughts on that? > good, great, so-so? > > > cheers > > 3dO > >

In article <3f0ee040$0$6524$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> i'm planning on buying a new ff wheel now that i got the time to race again > i was thinking about the act-labs complete system which is the ff wheel with > shifter and the 3pedal unit > but some people and reviews are making me doubt > now i can't figure out which one > > one review says the momo (the red one) is the best and that the act-labs is > even outperformed by the MicroCrap wheel > -which i own right now but with no xp support - it sucks even more than it > already did- > the other says act-labs is still #1 and all the rest are just trying > that's a hell of a lot of difference to me ... > > can i get some experiences from you guys > > btw, i want to buy the shifter as well, any thoughts on that? > good, great, so-so? > > > cheers > > 3dO > > >

I have the original Logi (red - cable driven), an Act-Labs, and just bought a Logi Momo Force Racing (black). The orig Logi and the Act-Labs both have rewired CH pedals. I'd rate the orig Logi as the best of the three. The new Logi Momo comes in second. And try as I did, I never ever liked the Act-Labs. The notchiness (that everyone says goes away with time, yet never has, even after doing a bit of a lube job on the gears and all) was HORRIBLE. Add to that the cumbersome size, and all the wires and shit you have to haul up onto your desk... ugh. The pedals that came with the unit where the worst I had ever used, even after trying to mod and lube them. This is all just my personal experience. Others have different levels of tolerance. -- MRSisson LOAD "GPL",8,1 RUN

I agree. I've got a Momo. I've had the old Guillemot Ferrari wheel, used the MS Sidewinder, tried the Act Labs and the new Thrustmaster Ferrari replica wheel (never got the chance to try the original red Logitech wheel with cabledrive, though). The Momo is the best FF wheel currently available. Its as simple as that. And it isn't as if its the most expensive of the bunch, either.

ActLabs provide excellent customer service. The Momo has, I think, better FF effects. A difficult choice to make. Achim "3dO" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3f0ee040$0$6524$[email hidden]... > i'm planning on buying a new ff wheel...

In article <[email hidden]>, Michael R Sisson <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> In article <3f0ee040$0$6524$[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] says... > > i'm planning on buying a new ff wheel now that i got the time to race again > > i was thinking about the act-labs complete system which is the ff wheel with > > shifter and the 3pedal unit > > but some people and reviews are making me doubt > > now i can't figure out which one

I have a MOMO and an original ACT system (old pedals, all-in-1 shifter). I bought the ACT a couple of years ago, and the MOMO this past Spring. While I greatly admire the intent of the ACT people, and appreciate the heavy and sturdy construction of the cases, using the wheel has been less than a joy. The leatherette covering started to peel off the wheel rim, and it bends alarmingly if you put any torque on the spokes at all. It occasionally emits a distressing 'CRACK' as though it's going to snap off in my hands. The clamp is very good and holds the wheel firmly to any flat surface, but it's HUGE and takes up a lot of space. The FF motor is excellent and the belt drive is clearly better than any gear system I've tried. Unfortunately, I get the notchy feeling when turning the wheel too. I should try the lube option, but can't work up enough enthusiasm. The standard pedals are simply junk. Well-constructed and solid, but badly designed. They bind and have virtually no travel. But they're made of metal and very rugged, so performing SlotTweak's rather thorough mod on them makes the difference between something I wanted to toss out the window and a fairly nice responsive pedal set. No clutch on these, though. And they desperately need the squash ball mod. The sleeve-connected shifter (not a USB model) has a pretty good feel to it, and selects gears positively and accurately as long as you're in the shifter utility. Go to a game, though, and it appears to select gears randomly. It does this in GPL, NH, F1-200X, and SCGT. My machine is 2.1 GHz with 512MB of fast RAM, so maybe XP is the problem. I've installed no utilities that weren't needed to run the games; it's not even set up for Internet use. I've tweaked the shifter utilities until my fingers ached, but to no avail. On the flip side, I installed my MOMO, grabbed the wheel rim, and was very shocked to find myself enjoying the games more and driving faster. I really only picked up a MOMO because I got it for $100 and planned to make it a spare. It's now my primary wheel and I have few complaints...

Alison Hine prefers the Logi LWFF (aka "Ol' Red") and the old CH a/c pedals, altho she also uses the Act Labs pedals. She built me a LWFF w. the ball-bearing conversion (very, very smooth, altho limited to abt. 180 deg. of travel), which I intend to use with the new ECCI Trackstar 3000 pedals (built like the proverbial brick sh*thouse), if I can ever get the cabling sorted out. I have been using a Momo (leather) wheel with TSW pedals, a really great combo for N2003 (altho I still prefer my 5-year-old ECCI CDS 4000 for GPL). The Momo has abt. 270 deg. of travel. A word to the wise: if you like NR003, don't bother with the MS Sidewinder wheel: the FF with this wheel is wildly inconsistent. And with MS abandoning the Sidewinder line (including the excellent joysticks), their already iffy customer support will become nonexistent. The ECCI pedals are so far compatible with the MS Sidewinder (and excellent in most games...just not my current fav, NR003), the Logi GP Force (black rim, not the red-rubber Formula Force), and one of the console wheels (the TM unit for the Xbox, I think), with more to follow. TM is releasing a wheel & pedal set for the PS2 when Gran Turismo 4 is released (for the Xmas season); I've been trying to talk ECCI into supporting this unit. You can't believe how much better console games are with a wheel and pedals than those ridiculous midget joysticks! "3dO" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3f0ee040$0$6524$[email hidden]... > i'm planning on buying a new ff wheel now that i got the time to raceagain > i was thinking about the act-labs complete system which is the ff wheelwith > shifter and the 3pedal unit > but some people and reviews are making me doubt > now i can't figure out which one > > one review says the momo (the red one) is the best and that the act-labsis

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> even outperformed by the MicroCrap wheel > -which i own right now but with no xp support - it sucks even more than it > already did- > the other says act-labs is still #1 and all the rest are just trying > that's a hell of a lot of difference to me ... > > can i get some experiences from you guys > > btw, i want to buy the shifter as well, any thoughts on that? > good, great, so-so? > > > cheers > > 3dO > >

Hi Steve, I know how to connected the E-3000 pedals to the LWFF. Send me an email if you seriously want to know :-) Achim "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:WKSPa.423$G%[email hidden]... ... > She built me a LWFF... which I intend to use with the new > ECCI Trackstar 3000 pedals (built like the proverbial brick sh*thouse) > if I can ever get the cabling sorted out

I LOVE my Momo Racing wheel (non-leather one). I didn't want to pay the money for the leather one, and I liked the features that the rubber one has. I have read that both Momo's force feedback is the best. I race Nascar 2003 and love the shifter, the huge paddles, and a lot more. You can't go wrong with the Momo Racing wheel. SkykingUSA "3dO" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3f0ee040$0$6524$[email hidden]... > i'm planning on buying a new ff wheel now that i got the time to raceagain > i was thinking about the act-labs complete system which is the ff wheelwith > shifter and the 3pedal unit > but some people and reviews are making me doubt > now i can't figure out which one > > one review says the momo (the red one) is the best and that the act-labsis

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> even outperformed by the MicroCrap wheel > -which i own right now but with no xp support - it sucks even more than it > already did- > the other says act-labs is still #1 and all the rest are just trying > that's a hell of a lot of difference to me ... > > can i get some experiences from you guys > > btw, i want to buy the shifter as well, any thoughts on that? > good, great, so-so? > > > cheers > > 3dO > >

Thre is actually quite a bit more to the Momo force vs Momo racing than just leather wrappings :) I wont go into all the details as theve been discussed many a time. Google/groups search or the Logi site. Ball bearings and aluminum to get a start. Mitch "SkykingUSA" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:G48Qa.113248$[email hidden]... > I LOVE my Momo Racing wheel (non-leather one). I didn't want to pay the > money for the leather one, and I liked the features that the rubber onehas. > I have read that both Momo's force feedback is the best. I race Nascar2003

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> and love the shifter, the huge paddles, and a lot more. > > You can't go wrong with the Momo Racing wheel. > > SkykingUSA > > > "3dO" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:3f0ee040$0$6524$[email hidden]... > > i'm planning on buying a new ff wheel now that i got the time to race > again > > i was thinking about the act-labs complete system which is the ff wheel > with > > shifter and the 3pedal unit > > but some people and reviews are making me doubt > > now i can't figure out which one > > > > one review says the momo (the red one) is the best and that the act-labs > is > > even outperformed by the MicroCrap wheel > > -which i own right now but with no xp support - it sucks even more than

it

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> > already did- > > the other says act-labs is still #1 and all the rest are just trying > > that's a hell of a lot of difference to me ... > > > > can i get some experiences from you guys > > > > btw, i want to buy the shifter as well, any thoughts on that? > > good, great, so-so? > > > > > > cheers > > > > 3dO > > > > > > >

In article <3f0ee040$0$6524$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > i'm planning on buying a new ff wheel now that i got the time to race again > i was thinking about the act-labs complete system which is the ff wheel with > shifter and the 3pedal unit > but some people and reviews are making me doubt > now i can't figure out which one Greg Dunn <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<110720031831052559%[email hidden]>...

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> > The leatherette covering started to peel off the wheel rim, and it > bends alarmingly if you put any torque on the spokes at all. It > occasionally emits a distressing 'CRACK' as though it's going to snap > off in my hands. The clamp is very good and holds the wheel firmly to > any flat surface, but it's HUGE and takes up a lot of space. The FF > motor is excellent and the belt drive is clearly better than any gear > system I've tried. Unfortunately, I get the notchy feeling when > turning the wheel too. I should try the lube option, but can't work up > enough enthusiasm.

Mine actually did break off once. It was the original design. The replacement assembly they sent was engineered to be more durable, but the thing is still pretty soft ABS plastic. The notchiness never goes away completely, but if your games have lots of active forces you dont notice it much. I find it more and more distracting and irritating with fine-control games like NR2003 though. I have read that some notchiness is due to the huge motor the thing uses, and which no amount of lube will resolve. > The standard pedals are simply junk. Well-constructed and solid, but > badly designed. They bind and have virtually no travel. But they're > made of metal and very rugged, so performing SlotTweak's rather > thorough mod on them makes the difference between something I wanted to > toss out the window and a fairly nice responsive pedal set. No clutch > on these, though. And they desperately need the squash ball mod. Agree on all points here. If you don't get the perf pedals, then definitely you will want to do SlotTweak's mods. Or use some other pedals. The stock (non perf) pedals are practically worthless. Another user posted that the resolution was better on the older Act Labs wheels. I would generally agree. I went from Win98SE and the serial port engine to WinXP and the USB version. Something definitely got lost in there somewhere. It just isn't the same at all, and I think it is worse, and not necessarily just me not being used to the differences yet. I am really ecstatic about my XP experiences thus far except that it forced me down this road. Good luck whatever way you decide.

Gerald Moore wrote: <snip>

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> > Another user posted that the resolution was better on the older Act > Labs wheels. I would generally agree. I went from Win98SE and the > serial port engine to WinXP and the USB version. Something definitely > got lost in there somewhere. It just isn't the same at all, and I > think it is worse, and not necessarily just me not being used to the > differences yet. ........

Next time you are in gpl/N4/N2xxx or DXTweak2 check the calibration numbers on the wheel axis. Mine gives a range from 0 to 4096 but the smallest jump when turning the wheel slowly is 40. Heard one guy with an older wheel/cartridge say he gets 1-1024 in steps of 1 which would be great! The notchy feel is partly the drag as the armature rotates past the magnets in the motor. Lubing the gears and cutting the belts in half (reduced thickness) helped but the only way to get rid of it completely is to disconnect the belt to the motor (this of course also eliminates FF ;-) ) I really wanted to like it but the low resolution just kills it.

I'm going against the tide here, but I've had both. I went through two Logitech, including the Momo. The Momo stripped teeth off of the drive gears after about two months, and replacement parts are not available. The first Logitech just plain stopped working after about a year. The ForceRS has a list of replacement parts on the Act Labs web site, so right there I give the nod to the ForceRS. The pedals that come with the ForceRS wheel are crap, but the high performance pedals are awesome! The shifter is fun with GPL, but I don't use it for F1 2002 or any of the mods. I use the paddle shifters on the wheel. As far as FF, I don't feel the notchiness others report on the ForceRS, but I do get the squeak that I've read about in other reviews. It has something to do with the brushes rubbing against the armature or some technical gobbly-gook like that. Anyway, I would never trade the ForceRS back to a Logitech. I love the way it drives, it's very, very strong, and parts are available if I need them. I recommend the ForceRS if and only if you can also afford the good pedals.

> Snip < > Anyway, I would never trade the ForceRS back to a Logitech. I love > the way it drives, it's very, very strong, and parts are available if > I need them. I recommend the ForceRS if and only if you can also > afford the good pedals. Ditto! I agree. I have had two Logitech formula force wheels in the past. I have not used the Momo wheel yet though. I now have two sets of Act-Labs ForceRS \ performance pedals. I like mine very much. To date, I have had only have two problems with the RS \ Pedals combo... 1.) one of the paddle shifter levers broke off after a lot of use. 2.) one of the tension springs broke on the accelerator peddle on the performance pedal sets. It still works though. I am in the process of ordering new ones. While I'm at it, I think I will get a couple of extras too. ;) I am in no way shooting down Logitech. I just like the ForceRS a bit better. When I get some extra funds I am going to get a Momo set to try too. Curiosity is getting the better of me >;) Just my two cents... Pete Panaia Animator \ 3D Artist

Pete Panaia wrote:

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>>Snip < > > >>Anyway, I would never trade the ForceRS back to a Logitech. I love >>the way it drives, it's very, very strong, and parts are available if >>I need them. I recommend the ForceRS if and only if you can also >>afford the good pedals. > > > Ditto! I agree.

<snip> I like the ForceRS and would still be using it except for the poor wheel axis resolution, otherwise I would recommend it along with replacements for the stock pedals. I suspect the newer cartridges (v2.2) are not as good as those pre-July 2001. When did you guys buy your wheels and do you know what calibration values you get on the wheel axis (range and smallest step)? Ken

Ken MacKay <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

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> Gerald Moore wrote: > > <snip> > > > > Another user posted that the resolution was better on the older Act > > Labs wheels. I would generally agree. I went from Win98SE and the > > serial port engine to WinXP and the USB version. Something definitely > > got lost in there somewhere. It just isn't the same at all, and I > > think it is worse, and not necessarily just me not being used to the > > differences yet. ........ > > Next time you are in gpl/N4/N2xxx or DXTweak2 check the calibration numbers > on the wheel axis. Mine gives a range from 0 to 4096 but the smallest jump > when turning the wheel slowly is 40. Heard one guy with an older > wheel/cartridge say he gets 1-1024 in steps of 1 which would be great!

I will definitely go back and check this out. I know that the serial port engine was very precise, but if the USB version is this bad then it will be the final nail in the Act's coffin, for sure. I hate that it has come to this. I really really liked it before I had to go to USB. Thanks, sort of. Gerald

Ken MacKay <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]: > Never tried the momo, but the resolution on the ForceRS is very poor > (about 100 points from lock to lock). This makes the steering input > notchy (wheel on screen moves in small jumps when turning slowly) to > the point it makes it affect consistency. (snip) > HTH > Ken > Would using a utility like dxtweek2 and increasing the range of the wheel trave help that? dave henrie

Dave Henrie wrote:

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> Ken MacKay <[email hidden]> wrote in > news:[email hidden]: > > >>Never tried the momo, but the resolution on the ForceRS is very poor >>(about 100 points from lock to lock). This makes the steering input >>notchy (wheel on screen moves in small jumps when turning slowly) to >>the point it makes it affect consistency. > > (snip) > >>HTH >>Ken >> > > Would using a utility like dxtweek2 and increasing the range of the > wheel trave help that? > dave henrie

Don't think so, but not entirely sure what you mean. Whether the wheel travel range is increased or decreased, in the end the wheel is only giving 100 points over that range. The amount the wheel may have to move to get to the next step (the angle between the points) may change by adjusting the range but you still only have those 100 points to aim at in the virtual car. Using it to compress those points over the range of movement that was *actually used* may help some as you'd be using all of the points available. For example if the 100 points are spread over 240 deg but the wheel is only used over 180 deg then there are about 75 points used over that 180 deg off travel. Actually did a similar thing by installing mechanical stops to limit the wheel travel to 180 degrees, it was slightly better but still wasn't great. Hope that makes sense.