Anyone remember Hard Driv'n, or Race Driv'n

Spent a lot of coins on these 2, which I had them on the PC....

GREAT arcade games... My ultimate favourite arcade game is SEGA RALLY though. As for Hard Drivin', there is a PC version, but it's pretty lame. and you need a 486 or something to run it. You also steer with the mouse, and it's quite floppy. The best part about that game I remember was the force feedback, and the wheel that could turn more than one rotation. Some games now don't reach the force feedback quality of that game, and PC wheels still don't spin more than one rotation. And this was an Atari arcade game from the 80's... The graphics were also part of my favourite graphical era.. the coloured polygons. It was so futuristic Tron sort of looking. Mike http://mikebeauchamp.com "senojm23" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Spent a lot of coins on these 2, which I had them on the PC.... > >

Me too. Marc "senojm23" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Spent a lot of coins on these 2, which I had them on the PC.... > >

On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 11:35:01 -0400, "Mike Beauchamp" <[email hidden]> wrote: >GREAT arcade games... My ultimate favourite arcade game is SEGA RALLY >though. > >As for Hard Drivin', there is a PC version, but it's pretty lame. and you >need a 486 or something to run it. There's also a proper version available for MAME, but I'll be damned if I've ever been able to get MAME to work properly with my wheel. Jason

Normal priced PC wheels haven't got a chance of matching Hard Drivin' for ffb -- there is a ~30 pound direct-drive torque motor in the sit-down cabinet. Some of the development versions were even better with analog amplifier drive to the motor...the production piece uses a switching amp that has a little crossover distortion, and there is some small freeplay and distortion ("greebling") near center. If you run the credits screen (press "abort" when the arcade piece is in attract mode) you can read the cast of characters. I'm down as "test driver" because Atari didn't want to let on that they had input from vehicle dynamics engineers. -- Doug Milliken www.millikenresearch.com On Sat, 26 Jul 2003, Mike Beauchamp wrote:

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> GREAT arcade games... My ultimate favourite arcade game is SEGA RALLY > though. > > As for Hard Drivin', there is a PC version, but it's pretty lame. and you > need a 486 or something to run it. You also steer with the mouse, and it's > quite floppy. The best part about that game I remember was the force > feedback, and the wheel that could turn more than one rotation. Some games > now don't reach the force feedback quality of that game, and PC wheels still > don't spin more than one rotation. And this was an Atari arcade game from > the 80's... > > The graphics were also part of my favourite graphical era.. the coloured > polygons. It was so futuristic Tron sort of looking. > > Mike > http://mikebeauchamp.com > > "senojm23" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Spent a lot of coins on these 2, which I had them on the PC.... > > > > > > > >

On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 10:09:38 -0500, "senojm23" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Spent a lot of coins on these 2, which I had them on the PC.... I loved Hard Drivin, no telling how many quarters I spent on that game to be the ghost car! I usually took the stunt track, I loved the loop and the way the car drove, thought it had great FFB.

Wow.. thanks a lot for that info!! It's a shame that someone can't make a wheel comparable to what that Hard Drivin' wheel was. I also think the way it was implemented was very well done, but I suppose that is because it was programmed for that one specific wheel, and not meant to work with all sorts of different wheels made by different manufacturers. Either way.. a great game. I wish some arcade company would step-up and do something like that again, only with 2003 technology. Mike http://mikebeauchamp.com "Doug Milliken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > Normal priced PC wheels haven't got a chance of matching Hard Drivin' for > ffb -- there is a ~30 pound direct-drive torque motor in the sit-down > cabinet. Some of the development versions were even better with analog > amplifier drive to the motor...the production piece uses a switching amp > that has a little crossover distortion, and there is some small freeplay > and distortion ("greebling") near center. > > If you run the credits screen (press "abort" when the arcade piece is in > attract mode) you can read the cast of characters. I'm down as "test > driver" because Atari didn't want to let on that they had input from > vehicle dynamics engineers. > > -- Doug Milliken > www.millikenresearch.com > > > On Sat, 26 Jul 2003, Mike Beauchamp wrote: > > > GREAT arcade games... My ultimate favourite arcade game is SEGA RALLY > > though. > > > > As for Hard Drivin', there is a PC version, but it's pretty lame. and

you > > need a 486 or something to run it. You also steer with the mouse, andit's > > quite floppy. The best part about that game I remember was the force > > feedback, and the wheel that could turn more than one rotation. Somegames > > now don't reach the force feedback quality of that game, and PC wheelsstill > > don't spin more than one rotation. And this was an Atari arcade gamefrom

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> > the 80's... > > > > The graphics were also part of my favourite graphical era.. the coloured > > polygons. It was so futuristic Tron sort of looking. > > > > Mike > > http://mikebeauchamp.com > > > > "senojm23" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > Spent a lot of coins on these 2, which I had them on the PC.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

In article <[email hidden]>, "senojm23" <[email hidden]> writes: >Spent a lot of coins on these 2, which I had them on the PC.... > Spy Hunter was my big quarter drain...<g> Eldred -- Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info on my homepage) Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

> Spy Hunter was my big quarter drain...<g> > > Eldred If that is the game where a truck keeps dropping you and your vehicle off on a road where you start getting chased by various & sundry nasties then it wouldn't have eaten many of my quaters. I had that game on my Apple II ( my 2nd computer way back when ) and could never get the hang of it. Maybe I should have started on the "quater a shot" machine version and saved myself a lot of aggravation. I could never have afforded the number of trys I took at that one before quitting in disgust. ;o) Elrikk

On 27 Jul 2003 02:11:09 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote:

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>In article <[email hidden]>, "senojm23" <[email hidden]> >writes: > >>Spent a lot of coins on these 2, which I had them on the PC.... >> > >Spy Hunter was my big quarter drain...<g>

I loved that as well - Quite cool on MAME, although really difficult to drive! Driving wise in the arcade I used to like Super Sprint, mainly because you could play for quite a while. Nice to watch people punching more coins in to keep going when your 10p is still running :-) John

not sure what you're thinking of.. a quick google led me to http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?game_id=9226&letter=R (u can get to hard drivin' with the link at the bottom) i like the idea of infinite play for skilled drivers! "elrikk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:AWHUa.47790$[email hidden]...

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> > > > Spy Hunter was my big quarter drain...<g> > > > > Eldred > > If that is the game where a truck keeps dropping you and your vehicle off

on > a road where you start getting chased by various & sundry nasties then it > wouldn't have eaten many of my quaters. > > I had that game on my Apple II ( my 2nd computer way back when ) and could > never get the hang of it. Maybe I should have started on the "quater a > shot" machine version and saved myself a lot of aggravation. I couldnever > have afforded the number of trys I took at that one before quitting in > disgust. ;o) > > Elrikk > >

In article <bg0c69$62d$[email hidden]>, "Jon G" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>not sure what you're thinking of.. > >a quick google led me to > >http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?game_id=9226&letter=R > >(u can get to hard drivin' with the link at the bottom) > >i like the idea of infinite play for skilled drivers!

Ok, I remember this one. I could never beat it, though... Eldred -- Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info on my homepage) Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Certainly do. Blew a lot of my salary on those sims. They were the first reasonably realistic (as far as physics go) arcade racers, and no other has touched them IMHO. I'd love to have one of each in my living room :) -Larry "senojm23" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Spent a lot of coins on these 2, which I had them on the PC.... > >

>From: "senojm23" [email hidden] >Date: 7/26/03 10:09 AM Central Daylight Time >Message-id: <[email hidden]> > >Spent a lot of coins on these 2, which I had them on the PC.... > Got first place on every track on every machine I ever played :-) Played for one hour fourty-five minutes straight on one quarter once.. Good fun! Todd Wasson Racing Software http://PerformanceSimulations.com http://performancesimulations.com/scnshot4.htm

You are correct that the steering wheel in Hard Drivin' is tightly integrated with the vehicle "physics" model--still the best way to do it, imo. The wheel is hardly an "optional accessory" in a real car, why should it be any different in a simulated car<grin>? Some of us actually discussed making ffb wheels, long before the consumer wheels came on the market. I concluded that I would never be happy with something made for a typical consumer price point. In hindsight, probably not the best business decision...although I still think it was correct from a "technical" point. Also, back then Atari was probably policing their patent on ffb (issued to one of the HD team), so there would have been a licencing issue too. The wheel in the HD upright cabinet uses a smaller motor with a V-belt drive to get enough torque, and works nearly as well for a bit less money. Would probably still be too expensive and heavy to sell in volume. Might be nice in the "simulator" cockpits that people make for home use. Atari (or whoever owns Atari these days) still has rights to the game, I suppose that if someone offered them "enough" they would sell PC rights. I have no idea how a deal like this might work, but it would be fun if someone came along to do it! If you have room, there are HD and RD units on the used market, I have one and several of my friends do too. Nice conversation piece. Watch the arcade games newsgroup, that is where one of them was found a few years ago. -- Doug Milliken www.millikenresearch.com On Sat, 26 Jul 2003, Mike Beauchamp wrote:

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> Wow.. thanks a lot for that info!! > > It's a shame that someone can't make a wheel comparable to what that Hard > Drivin' wheel was. I also think the way it was implemented was very well > done, but I suppose that is because it was programmed for that one specific > wheel, and not meant to work with all sorts of different wheels made by > different manufacturers. > > Either way.. a great game. I wish some arcade company would step-up and do > something like that again, only with 2003 technology. > > Mike > http://mikebeauchamp.com > "Doug Milliken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > Normal priced PC wheels haven't got a chance of matching Hard Drivin' for > > ffb -- there is a ~30 pound direct-drive torque motor in the sit-down > > cabinet. Some of the development versions were even better with analog > > amplifier drive to the motor...the production piece uses a switching amp > > that has a little crossover distortion, and there is some small freeplay > > and distortion ("greebling") near center. > > > > If you run the credits screen (press "abort" when the arcade piece is in > > attract mode) you can read the cast of characters. I'm down as "test > > driver" because Atari didn't want to let on that they had input from > > vehicle dynamics engineers. > > > > -- Doug Milliken > > www.millikenresearch.com > > > > > > On Sat, 26 Jul 2003, Mike Beauchamp wrote: > > > > > GREAT arcade games... My ultimate favourite arcade game is SEGA RALLY > > > though. > > > > > > As for Hard Drivin', there is a PC version, but it's pretty lame. and > you > > > need a 486 or something to run it. You also steer with the mouse, and > it's > > > quite floppy. The best part about that game I remember was the force > > > feedback, and the wheel that could turn more than one rotation. Some > games > > > now don't reach the force feedback quality of that game, and PC wheels > still > > > don't spin more than one rotation. And this was an Atari arcade game > from > > > the 80's... > > > > > > The graphics were also part of my favourite graphical era.. the coloured > > > polygons. It was so futuristic Tron sort of looking. > > > > > > Mike > > > http://mikebeauchamp.com > > > > > > "senojm23" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > Spent a lot of coins on these 2, which I had them on the PC.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

On 27 Jul 2003, EldredP wrote:

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> In article <bg0c69$62d$[email hidden]>, "Jon G" <[email hidden]> > >not sure what you're thinking of.. > >a quick google led me to > >http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?game_id=9226&letter=R > >(u can get to hard drivin' with the link at the bottom) > >i like the idea of infinite play for skilled drivers! > Ok, I remember this one. I could never beat it, though... > > Eldred

The operator (owner) has some detailed control within Hard Drivin' and Race Drivin'. Iirc, the following can be set individually, and there may even be more that I've forgotten (my game isn't nearby to check the operator screens): -Time on initial coin up -Added time for making it to the goal posts (mid-lap milestones) -Added time on completion of lap While most games in the field were just left on "default", some of the operators did take advantage of this flexibility. The game also keeps track of every game, how long it lasted, time of day, etc, and presents the data on the screen in bar charts so the operator can monitor the players of that particular machine. With this data, it _should_ be possible to keep making it a little harder (in small steps) so the players keep coming back, but don't get to drive forever on one coin-up. Obviously the goal for the operator is to maximize return on investment...the list price for HD was US$10000, in the late 1980's. Bottom line -- different people have different memories of how hard it was to get high scores and extra time/laps...and there may be a good reason for this. -- Doug Milliken www.millikenresearch.com

In article <[email hidden]>, Doug Milliken <[email hidden]> writes: >Obviously the goal for the >operator is to maximize return on investment...the list price for HD was >US$10000, in the late 1980's. How much did it cost you to buy it used? My goal is eventually to have an arcade in my house. Defender, Red Baron or Star Wars, a pinball machine or two(Flash, Whirlwind or Earthshaker), and at least one driving game... Hopefully, all those will still be around by the time I can *afford* it... Eldred -- Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info on my homepage) Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On 30 Jul 2003 21:45:25 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: >How much did it cost you to buy it used? My goal is eventually to have an >arcade in my house. Defender, Red Baron or Star Wars, a pinball machine or >two(Flash, Whirlwind or Earthshaker), and at least one driving game... >Hopefully, all those will still be around by the time I can *afford* it... Check ebay. As far as Star Wars goes, I've seen the cockpit/sit-down version go for under a grand. There's a stand-up one on ebay right now (there are usually several). I'd look there first and then poke around google for some used game dealers. I would expect Hard Drivin, if it isn't overly rare, probably goes for $1000 or so. Jason

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (jason moyer) writes:

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>On 30 Jul 2003 21:45:25 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: > >>How much did it cost you to buy it used? My goal is eventually to have an >>arcade in my house. Defender, Red Baron or Star Wars, a pinball machine or >>two(Flash, Whirlwind or Earthshaker), and at least one driving game... >>Hopefully, all those will still be around by the time I can *afford* it... > >Check ebay. As far as Star Wars goes, I've seen the cockpit/sit-down >version go for under a grand. There's a stand-up one on ebay right >now (there are usually several). I'd look there first and then poke >around google for some used game dealers. I would expect Hard Drivin, >if it isn't overly rare, probably goes for $1000 or so.

Yeah, I did a search for Star Wars last night. The only sit-down version I saw was $4000 or so...sheesh! Yep, I need more money... Eldred -- Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info on my homepage) Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On 31 Jul 2003 03:34:34 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: >Yeah, I did a search for Star Wars last night. The only sit-down version I saw >was $4000 or so...sheesh! >Yep, I need more money... > >Eldred Tell everybody you are working on the greatest racesim ever and start selling teddybears with the logo of that sim.. Nah... that's a silly idea, nobody would fall for that. Andre

On 30 Jul 2003, EldredP wrote:

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> In article <[email hidden]>, Doug Milliken > <[email hidden]> writes: > >Obviously the goal for the > >operator is to maximize return on investment...the list price for HD was > >US$10000, in the late 1980's. > > How much did it cost you to buy it used? My goal is eventually to have an > arcade in my house. Defender, Red Baron or Star Wars, a pinball machine or

Actually, my Hard Drivin' (red cockpit, first model) was part of a deal with Atari, so I got it new in the late 1980's. In the early 1990's I added the upgrade kit to make it like the later Race Drivin', with more cars & tracks, and better car model. My friend bought a very beat up yellow Race Drivin' for US$100 with no monitor, this was 2-3 years ago. Also figure that it cost several hundred bucks to rent a truck with power lift-gate to move it (several hundred miles from his house). I think the cockpit version weighs 600-700 pounds. It had over 100,000 plays on the game counter and needed some wiring repaired inside. After a long search for a good used 'medium res' monitor, he gave in and bought a new monitor from Wells-Gardner (maybe $500). Then he made some simple mounting hardware for the monitor (open frame, no monitor cabinet or mounting brackets) and was in business. His RD works great now, and he has the newer stick shift which works better than my original one. I still say look at the arcade game collectors usenet group, that is where the $100 RD was advertized, not on Ebay. Came out of a guy's garage that had enough games to count as a small arcade, in New Jersey, near NYC. -- Doug

> >I still say look at the arcade game collectors usenet group, that is where >the $100 RD was advertized, not on Ebay. Came out of a guy's garage that >had enough games to count as a small arcade, in New Jersey, near NYC. > Ok, I'll look for that group. Thanks. Eldred -- Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info on my homepage) Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

[email hidden] (EldredP) wrote in news:[email hidden]: > My goal is eventually to > have an arcade in my house. Defender, Red Baron or Star Wars, a > pinball machine or two(Flash, Whirlwind or Earthshaker), and at least > one driving game... Hopefully, all those will still be around by the > time I can *afford* it... I wanted to do the same until I realized the full cost and hassle it would entail. In case you didn't already know, you can play most of these old games by installing a MAME emulator (M.A.M.E. - Multiple Arcade Machine Emulator) and then finding the individual game ROMs in the binaries. IMHO, after playing them again you realize they generally don't stand the test of time and you get the whole idea out of your system. Just enter MAME in your search engine and start reading, it's a bit of a learning curve but still a lot cheaper, less hassle, and a lot more versatile than buying a single game machine.

In article <[email hidden]>, Andre Warringa <[email hidden]> writes:

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>On 31 Jul 2003 03:34:34 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: > >>Yeah, I did a search for Star Wars last night. The only sit-down version I >saw >>was $4000 or so...sheesh! >>Yep, I need more money... >> >>Eldred > >Tell everybody you are working on the greatest racesim ever and start >selling teddybears with the logo of that sim.. > >Nah... that's a silly idea, nobody would fall for that. >

Ouch...<g> Eldred -- Help find missing child: Tatianna Ashley Chillcutt from Michigan(info on my homepage) Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.