Opnions of Steering assists in Nascar 2003

What are the opinions of some of you guys about using steering assists in Nascar 2003? I just joined an informal group running weekly races and had always used the keyboard since I didn't have a wheel. Most of the people racing in this group are pretty inexperienced but most have wheels. Well, some new guys joined and used the keyboard too. I made the mistake of telling them that on the keyboard, the steering assists were your friend. Traction control, for instance, is on by default and greyed out when using the keyboard to steer. I also said to turn on stability and set steering assitance to about 60 to smooth out the key imput, otherwise it was like jerking the wheel of a car back and forth hard all the way around the track. Anyway, now i'm catching flack from the guys using the steering wheels who say that's cheating and they're going to go to the patched game so they can turn off all assists on the server side. What gets me is most of these guys using wheels who think they're too good to need assistance are basically banging the walls and running back down to the apron all the way around the track. Am I wrong in thinking it's more fun to race guys who can at least run a smooth line rather then people who turn all assists off and can't make it once around without hitting the wall or spinning out? I thought the whole idea of putting those in the game was to make people more competitive. They claim using all the steering assistance they can run around the tracks without touching their wheels at all. That may be true on some tracks but you then have to steer with the throttle and they don't mention what happens if you're running side by side with someone else since the assistance tends to keep you in the preferred groove which you can't always run in. Anyway, how do the more experienced guys racing in online leagues deal with the issue of steering assists? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "There would be a lot more civility in this world if people didn't take that as an invitation to walk all over you" - (Calvin and Hobbes)

When the patch is released, they will be banned from my league. I think any reputable league will ban them as well -- Steve "They say a glass of wine makes you live longer but there's a drawback with that, the French drink it" Guvnor. "EGK" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Anyway, how do the more experienced guys racing in online leagues deal with > the issue of steering assists? > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > "There would be a lot more civility in this world if people > didn't take that as an invitation to walk all over you" > - (Calvin and Hobbes)

Any driver aids which allow him or her to run the car in a way which provides them with greater pleasure are worthwhile. After all, it is a game and each person has their own preferences for how they play it. Banning something as basic as a filter which smooths out digital data is utterly ridiculous and smacks of people taking this form of entertainment way too seriously. Tell them to get stuffed and start your own league if they take this course of action. Bruce. "EGK" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > What are the opinions of some of you guys about using steering assists in > Nascar 2003?

EGK, Your touching the subject that is about like twisting your mom's tit. <G> I want to be nice and say I agree, use the aids (I guess, but I never would) to make yourself stay on track... IMHO though, with driving aids, you start down the path in "Sim Life" with a crutch that you wont ever force yourself to toss, until a new game comes along that wont help you drive <twas GPL>. some games driving help hinders once you reach a reasonable threshold of performance, in fact back in NR2 and NR3 days this was still true. but in NR03, it isn't necessarily a hindrance like it used to. The big fight is now, even with wheels many use the "aids" to run cars that "only the computer could possibly control" I guess that seems ok to them, as they thing this is the same playfield as flying f-15's? About racing online with NASCAR racing 2003 is ludicrous at best with a friggin keyboard. Sorry I feel that way, I think you will find 60-80% feel that way. Believe me, I don't say it, because your stupid, nor would you hear me with any remark about your heritage, but all ONLY because you ***ARE MISSING OUT on the EXPERIENCE*** !!! Nintendo and Playstation games are made for keyboard commandos, even if you have a good wheel the game doesn't actually allow you to control the car in a true sense of controlling (& this means the car reacting and you reacting to the car... realistically (maybe when you get your license they will drive cars in real life with keyboards and digital joypads?) just guessing? Wheels aren't that expensive, and for that matter, neither are joysticks. NR (the whole series) is really for the crowd that can see the issues of racing & actually controlling the car like you would in real life "ish". I grant you that they left the keyboard option in so you could at least get a taste. Most of us been around a while, I actually bought the 1st version of NASCAR racing by papy, 2 times. once as 4 or 5 floppy install, later better resolution it came on CDrom. From right on, it was so obvious that for me to enjoy this I would have to buy at least 1 joystick ( I was cheap at 1st and in college, paid for myself BTW). One joystick didn't do it for me, so months later I got another, one to gas & brake, one to turn. Then about a year later I bought a wheel/pedal set. Something about this game ( and other papy sims) that make you want to take over the controls. Sure keyboard kinda worked, but not really ever ... was the car doing what I wanted it to do. How can you stand to drive knowing that your really only controlling oh about <10% of what the car is doing? I would be frustrated to all get out... that in fact I was, I bought me a wheel, dam it was worth every penny at the time too! (Thrustmaster T-2, 149.99 via mail-order in Jan, 1996.) Can buy wheels now used on ebay for about 30 and change, if you are careful. Sure it sounds "elitist" with the wheel thing? Sorry, I was trying like hell to be fair... "EGK" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > What are the opinions of some of you guys about using steering assists in > Nascar 2003? > > I just joined an informal group running weekly races and had always used > the keyboard since I didn't have a wheel. Most of the people racing inthis > group are pretty inexperienced but most have wheels. > > Well, some new guys joined and used the keyboard too. I made the mistakeof > telling them that on the keyboard, the steering assists were your friend. > Traction control, for instance, is on by default and greyed out when using > the keyboard to steer. I also said to turn on stability and set steering > assitance to about 60 to smooth out the key imput, otherwise it was like > jerking the wheel of a car back and forth hard all the way around thetrack. > Anyway, now i'm catching flack from the guys using the steering wheels who > say that's cheating and they're going to go to the patched game so theycan > turn off all assists on the server side. > > What gets me is most of these guys using wheels who think they're too good > to need assistance are basically banging the walls and running back downto > the apron all the way around the track. Am I wrong in thinking it's more > fun to race guys who can at least run a smooth line rather then people who > turn all assists off and can't make it once around without hitting thewall > or spinning out? I thought the whole idea of putting those in the gamewas > to make people more competitive. They claim using all the steering > assistance they can run around the tracks without touching their wheels at > all. That may be true on some tracks but you then have to steer with the > throttle and they don't mention what happens if you're running side byside > with someone else since the assistance tends to keep you in the preferred > groove which you can't always run in. > > Anyway, how do the more experienced guys racing in online leagues dealwith > the issue of steering assists? > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > "There would be a lot more civility in this world if people > didn't take that as an invitation to walk all over you" > - (Calvin and Hobbes)

I'm leaving your post intact because i'm just replying in general. I figured this might be a touchy subject but was really looking for opinions. Hopefully it won't devolve in to any namecalling. I'm 45 thanks so have had my real license for a few years. Nothing but a holographic projection is going to equal real cars. I do understand your point of view. I was expecting it from players who are really in to racing sims hardcore. That's not the case with me or most of these I was playing with. At least I didn't think so. I was just playing for fun. I never bought a wheel because I didn't play often enough to make it worth the bother. I recently did get a logitech Wingman wheel but was trying to make the ones who only have a keyboard more competitive. Frankly, It's more fun for me to just race offline against the computer then to race online with guys who think they're too good for assistance yet can hardly make one lap around without banging the wall and running down on the apron. They're incapable of running a smooth line so anyone coming up from behind them has to wait till they hit the wall or go on to the apron to make a pass. At least if you dont want to be put in to the wall yourself. The kicker in this is these same guys who can't control their cars without driving aids and say the aids are cheating are playing the game with damage turned OFF and hurtling all over themselves to download some great new track setup :) They'd never complete a race if they didn't. On Fri, 22 Aug 2003 16:15:41 -0500, "Sting32" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>EGK, > > Your touching the subject that is about like twisting your mom's tit. ><G> > > I want to be nice and say I agree, use the aids (I guess, but I never >would) to make yourself stay on track... IMHO though, with driving aids, >you start down the path in "Sim Life" with a crutch that you wont ever >force yourself to toss, until a new game comes along that wont help you >drive <twas GPL>. some games driving help hinders once you reach a >reasonable threshold of performance, in fact back in NR2 and NR3 days this >was still true. but in NR03, it isn't necessarily a hindrance like it used >to. The big fight is now, even with wheels many use the "aids" to run cars >that "only the computer could possibly control" I guess that seems ok to >them, as they thing this is the same playfield as flying f-15's? > > About racing online with NASCAR racing 2003 is ludicrous at best >with a friggin keyboard. Sorry I feel that way, I think you will find >60-80% feel that way. Believe me, I don't say it, because your stupid, nor >would you hear me with any remark about your heritage, but all ONLY because >you ***ARE MISSING OUT on the EXPERIENCE*** !!! Nintendo and Playstation >games are made for keyboard commandos, even if you have a good wheel the >game doesn't actually allow you to control the car in a true sense of >controlling (& this means the car reacting and you reacting to the car... >realistically (maybe when you get your license they will drive cars in >real life with keyboards and digital joypads?) just guessing? > > Wheels aren't that expensive, and for that matter, neither are >joysticks. NR (the whole series) is really for the crowd that can see the >issues of racing & actually controlling the car like you would in real life >"ish". I grant you that they left the keyboard option in so you could at >least get a taste. Most of us been around a while, I actually bought the >1st version of NASCAR racing by papy, 2 times. once as 4 or 5 floppy >install, later better resolution it came on CDrom. From right on, it was so >obvious that for me to enjoy this I would have to buy at least 1 joystick >( I was cheap at 1st and in college, paid for myself BTW). One joystick >didn't do it for me, so months later I got another, one to gas & brake, one >to turn. Then about a year later I bought a wheel/pedal set. > > Something about this game ( and other papy sims) that make you want to >take over the controls. Sure keyboard kinda worked, but not really ever ... >was the car doing what I wanted it to do. How can you stand to drive >knowing that your really only controlling oh about <10% of what the car is >doing? I would be frustrated to all get out... that in fact I was, I >bought me a wheel, dam it was worth every penny at the time too! >(Thrustmaster T-2, 149.99 via mail-order in Jan, 1996.) > > Can buy wheels now used on ebay for about 30 and change, if you are >careful. > >Sure it sounds "elitist" with the wheel thing? Sorry, I was trying like >hell to be fair... > > >"EGK" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> What are the opinions of some of you guys about using steering assists in >> Nascar 2003? >> >> I just joined an informal group running weekly races and had always used >> the keyboard since I didn't have a wheel. Most of the people racing in >this >> group are pretty inexperienced but most have wheels. >> >> Well, some new guys joined and used the keyboard too. I made the mistake >of >> telling them that on the keyboard, the steering assists were your friend. >> Traction control, for instance, is on by default and greyed out when using >> the keyboard to steer. I also said to turn on stability and set steering >> assitance to about 60 to smooth out the key imput, otherwise it was like >> jerking the wheel of a car back and forth hard all the way around the >track. >> Anyway, now i'm catching flack from the guys using the steering wheels who >> say that's cheating and they're going to go to the patched game so they >can >> turn off all assists on the server side. >> >> What gets me is most of these guys using wheels who think they're too good >> to need assistance are basically banging the walls and running back down >to >> the apron all the way around the track. Am I wrong in thinking it's more >> fun to race guys who can at least run a smooth line rather then people who >> turn all assists off and can't make it once around without hitting the >wall >> or spinning out? I thought the whole idea of putting those in the game >was >> to make people more competitive. They claim using all the steering >> assistance they can run around the tracks without touching their wheels at >> all. That may be true on some tracks but you then have to steer with the >> throttle and they don't mention what happens if you're running side by >side >> with someone else since the assistance tends to keep you in the preferred >> groove which you can't always run in. >> >> Anyway, how do the more experienced guys racing in online leagues deal >with >> the issue of steering assists? >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "There would be a lot more civility in this world if people didn't take that as an invitation to walk all over you" - (Calvin and Hobbes)

Mike Helton after reading your post has decided to ban all power steering assists from Nascar sponsered racing. Manual steering is now mandated. It will come into effect as soon as the Sierra patch is official. Pete "Edgecrusher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:bi5src$5m6h0$[email hidden]... > When the patch is released, they will be banned from my league. I thinkany reputable league will ban them as well > > -- > > Steve > > "They say a glass of wine makes you live longer but there's a drawbackwith that, the French drink it" > > Guvnor.

In article <3f4695ae$[email hidden]>, "Sting32" <[email hidden]> writes: >Something about this game ( and other papy sims) that make you want to >take over the controls. Sure keyboard kinda worked, but not really ever ... >was the car doing what I wanted it to do. How can you stand to drive >knowing that your really only controlling oh about <10% of what the car is >doing? I still get that feeling even using a WHEEL...<g> Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Jeez! That's gunna be one hell of a patch, then. :) Bruce. "Pete" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:SUB1b.11375$[email hidden]... > Mike Helton after reading your post has decided to ban all power > steering > assists from Nascar sponsered racing. Manual steering is now mandated. > It will come into effect as soon as the Sierra patch is official.

On 23 Aug 2003 05:10:16 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote:

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>In article <3f4695ae$[email hidden]>, "Sting32" <[email hidden]> writes: > >>Something about this game ( and other papy sims) that make you want to >>take over the controls. Sure keyboard kinda worked, but not really ever ... >>was the car doing what I wanted it to do. How can you stand to drive >>knowing that your really only controlling oh about <10% of what the car is >>doing? > >I still get that feeling even using a WHEEL...<g>

You said that in jest but I find it a true statement. I guess I don't understand the argument that because you have a wheel you're getting the "true" experience as if it equates to driving a real race car. I gave a stock answer to those guys who demand driving aids be turned off by saying if that's the case then they should all turn off automatic transmission also and certainly they shouldnt be driving with damage turned off if they want the realistic experience. And by the way, be sure and keep a hammer next to your chair so you can pick it up and whap yourself in the head everytime you hit the wall cuz you're too good for driving aids. At least you'll experience a bit of what a real racer does if he can't drive the car. I guess what it boils down to for me is whether this is supposed to be a fun game or whether people are taking it as life or death. Say one or the other in the first place but don't change it halfway through. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "There would be a lot more civility in this world if people didn't take that as an invitation to walk all over you" - (Calvin and Hobbes)

I think it helps when fixed setups are imposed (i.e. fast setup), and a persons wheel and/or driving style simply isn't as compatible as one would wish). I don't think it provides any competitive edge. There is one downside. It tends to pull your car to the preferred racing line, and you have to be careful not to allow it to pull you into someone. This was noticeable at Watkins Glen. I could tell who had steering assist turned on going into the bus-stop because if you went inside of someone to pass here, the outside car would lean in on you and then veer away as the driver corrected. -Larry "EGK" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > What are the opinions of some of you guys about using steering assists in > Nascar 2003? > > I just joined an informal group running weekly races and had always used > the keyboard since I didn't have a wheel. Most of the people racing inthis > group are pretty inexperienced but most have wheels. > > Well, some new guys joined and used the keyboard too. I made the mistakeof > telling them that on the keyboard, the steering assists were your friend. > Traction control, for instance, is on by default and greyed out when using > the keyboard to steer. I also said to turn on stability and set steering > assitance to about 60 to smooth out the key imput, otherwise it was like > jerking the wheel of a car back and forth hard all the way around thetrack. > Anyway, now i'm catching flack from the guys using the steering wheels who > say that's cheating and they're going to go to the patched game so theycan > turn off all assists on the server side. > > What gets me is most of these guys using wheels who think they're too good > to need assistance are basically banging the walls and running back downto > the apron all the way around the track. Am I wrong in thinking it's more > fun to race guys who can at least run a smooth line rather then people who > turn all assists off and can't make it once around without hitting thewall > or spinning out? I thought the whole idea of putting those in the gamewas > to make people more competitive. They claim using all the steering > assistance they can run around the tracks without touching their wheels at > all. That may be true on some tracks but you then have to steer with the > throttle and they don't mention what happens if you're running side byside > with someone else since the assistance tends to keep you in the preferred > groove which you can't always run in. > > Anyway, how do the more experienced guys racing in online leagues dealwith > the issue of steering assists? > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > "There would be a lot more civility in this world if people > didn't take that as an invitation to walk all over you" > - (Calvin and Hobbes)

"EGK" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On 23 Aug 2003 05:10:16 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: > > >In article <3f4695ae$[email hidden]>, "Sting32" <[email hidden]> writes: > > > >>Something about this game ( and other papy sims) that make you want to > >>take over the controls. Sure keyboard kinda worked, but not really ever... > >>was the car doing what I wanted it to do. How can you stand to drive > >>knowing that your really only controlling oh about <10% of what the caris

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> >>doing? > > > >I still get that feeling even using a WHEEL...<g> > > You said that in jest but I find it a true statement. I guess I don't > understand the argument that because you have a wheel you're getting the > "true" experience as if it equates to driving a real race car. > > I gave a stock answer to those guys who demand driving aids be turned off

by > saying if that's the case then they should all turn off automatic > transmission also and certainly they shouldnt be driving with damageturned > off if they want the realistic experience. And by the way, be sure andkeep > a hammer next to your chair so you can pick it up and whap yourself in the > head everytime you hit the wall cuz you're too good for driving aids. At > least you'll experience a bit of what a real racer does if he can't drive > the car. > > I guess what it boils down to for me is whether this is supposed to be afun > game or whether people are taking it as life or death. > > Say one or the other in the first place but don't change it halfwaythrough. >Don't forget to put the space heater by your feet, put on thermal underwear, long pants, long sleeve shirt, helmet and driving gloves. Turn your speakers WAAAY up, turn on cockpit view, turn off auto clutch, and only drink water during a pit stop. No munchies, Beer, or smoking. Now you are starting to get close to a somewhat realistic experience. I think you use what makes the driving fun for you. Whatever these other guys may consider cheating, if you wreck them because you don't have traction control on, I bet you they will scream their heads off and demand to know what you were even doing on the track if you cant drive. To tell the truth, no one will know what aids you are using if you don't say. Sometimes that is best :-) Sean

You'll know it when I have them turned on :))) -- Tim White www.intracmotorsports.com "McWhom" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > To tell the truth, no one will know what aids you are using if you don't say. > Sometimes that is best :-)

EA Sports? Did I miss something? Sean "Full Name Here" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > BRISTOL, TENN. - NASCAR president Mike Helton told reporters today that > NASCAR is waiting patiently for EA Sports, NASCAR Racing 2003, to release > their eagerly awaited "patch" for racing. Helton delcared that at that > time, we are unilaterally banning all power steering from the top Winston > Cup circuit. Helton also said "it's become more and more evident thatpower > steering is for pussies and we want all our drivers out there to have the > 'real' experience of driving these fine race cars". "As soon as Sierra > comes through with the patch, all power steering will be removed inWinston > Cup". "Manual only is the way to go." So far NASCAR is undecided about > whether to take away any of Jeff Gordon or Dale Earnhardt's Winston Cup > championships retroactively but it appears unlikely as those were not the > rules in effect at the time.