RASF1 Malaysia

I'm a little worried about this track. Turn 1 on lap 1 is liable to be a disaster if we don't do something to prevent it. Can we make a gentleman's agreement that on lap 1 we will not try to pass going into turns 1 and 2? You aren't likely to succeed anyway, because getting inside on turn 1 puts you outside on turn 2, and there is just enough track width there that a determined person could hold you off. After that race as normal, but lap 1 will be a disaster if we don't use some common sense in the first two turns. And please remember, if you are following somebody into a tight turn you have to brake WHEN your opponent brakes, not WHERE your opponent brakes. When the first guy gets to about the 70 meter point we are all going to have to start braking to avoid disaster. BTW what kind of lap times are you guys getting? I managed a high 1:38 in qual trim yesterday. Close to the benchmark but still about 2 sec slower than the AI at 100%. There are still a few rough spots but I'm not sure if I will be able to iron them out before Sunday. I'm still not very consistent through turns 7 and 8 and turns 11 and 14 are still largely guesswork. So how are the rest of you doing? Neil, I trust you are down in the 1:36's somewhere? ;o)

"Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I'm a little worried about this track. Turn 1 on lap 1 is liable to be a > disaster if we don't do something to prevent it. Can we make agentleman's > agreement that on lap 1 we will not try to pass going into turns 1 and 2? [snip] Fine by me - the starts in RASF1 are still a mystery me - I'll try anything that helps. [snip] So how are the rest of you doing? Neil, I trust you are down in > the 1:36's somewhere? ;o) >If only :) I haven't turned a lap yet but I'm getting to know what works for me setup-wise so I hope to be in reasonable shape by Sunday. I'll settle for 1:40s and getting past T1 ;) cya there

Haven't practised yet, but looking forward to Sunday. Can we have some more people turn up this time please? Spud. "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I'm a little worried about this track. Turn 1 on lap 1 is liable to be a > disaster if we don't do something to prevent it. Can we make agentleman's > agreement that on lap 1 we will not try to pass going into turns 1 and 2? > You aren't likely to succeed anyway, because getting inside on turn 1 puts > you outside on turn 2, and there is just enough track width there that a > determined person could hold you off. After that race as normal, but lap1 > will be a disaster if we don't use some common sense in the first twoturns. > And please remember, if you are following somebody into a tight turn you > have to brake WHEN your opponent brakes, not WHERE your opponent brakes. > When the first guy gets to about the 70 meter point we are all going tohave > to start braking to avoid disaster. > > BTW what kind of lap times are you guys getting? I managed a high 1:38 in > qual trim yesterday. Close to the benchmark but still about 2 sec slower > than the AI at 100%. There are still a few rough spots but I'm not sureif > I will be able to iron them out before Sunday. I'm still not very > consistent through turns 7 and 8 and turns 11 and 14 are still largely > guesswork. So how are the rest of you doing? Neil, I trust you are downin > the 1:36's somewhere? ;o) > >

Quoted text (7 lines)

> So how are the rest of you doing? Neil, I trust you are down in >> the 1:36's somewhere? ;o) >> >If only :) I haven't turned a lap yet but I'm getting to know what works >for me setup-wise so I hope to be in reasonable shape by Sunday. I'll settle >for 1:40s and getting past T1 ;) >

Well, if you guys are down that low, I'm probably at about 2:10... I haven't even had time to run a lap this week.. :-( Eldred p.s. anyone know how to set practice time length? That would be more of a 'fire and forget' solution in case I don't race. I could just start it and let you guys have at it. -- .sig file is at the cleaners... Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank -2.4 N2k3 rank ? Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

I'd like to race, but it's doubtful I'll be able to this Sunday. David G Fisher "Spudster" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:jlsab.982080$[email hidden]... > Haven't practised yet, but looking forward to Sunday. Can we have somemore

Quoted text (7 lines)

> people turn up this time please? > > Spud. > > "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > I'm a little worried about this track. Turn 1 on lap 1 is liable to be

a > > disaster if we don't do something to prevent it. Can we make a > gentleman's > > agreement that on lap 1 we will not try to pass going into turns 1 and2? > > You aren't likely to succeed anyway, because getting inside on turn 1puts > > you outside on turn 2, and there is just enough track width there that a > > determined person could hold you off. After that race as normal, butlap

Quoted text (10 lines)

> 1 > > will be a disaster if we don't use some common sense in the first two > turns. > > And please remember, if you are following somebody into a tight turn you > > have to brake WHEN your opponent brakes, not WHERE your opponent brakes. > > When the first guy gets to about the 70 meter point we are all going to > have > > to start braking to avoid disaster. > > > > BTW what kind of lap times are you guys getting? I managed a high 1:38

in > > qual trim yesterday. Close to the benchmark but still about 2 secslower > > than the AI at 100%. There are still a few rough spots but I'm not sure > if > > I will be able to iron them out before Sunday. I'm still not very > > consistent through turns 7 and 8 and turns 11 and 14 are still largely > > guesswork. So how are the rest of you doing? Neil, I trust you aredown > in > > the 1:36's somewhere? ;o) > > > > > >

"David G Fisher" wrote... > I'd like to race, but it's doubtful I'll be able to > this Sunday. Negative on this end as well... substituting in another series. Jan. =---

Spudster wrote: > > Haven't practised yet, but looking forward to Sunday. Can we have some more > people turn up this time please? > > Spud. Hi Spud: I'd like to try one of these. But this might not be it. I don't know this track. Any track etiquette newbies need to know? What are the particulars for getting in? Thanks Larry

Come on out Larry, you'll fit right in. Run a high-downforce setup, get your car balanced, and go slow through the corners and you'll do fine. Track etiquette is the same as real racing... just do what they do on TV!! Join us through F1RST at 12noon eastern time. Password: RAS Spud. "Larry Lindstrom" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Spudster wrote: > > > > Haven't practised yet, but looking forward to Sunday. Can we have somemore

Quoted text (15 lines)

> > people turn up this time please? > > > > Spud. > > Hi Spud: > > I'd like to try one of these. But this might > not be it. I don't know this track. > > Any track etiquette newbies need to know? > > What are the particulars for getting in? > > Thanks > Larry

"Spudster" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:jlsab.982080$[email hidden]... > Haven't practised yet, but looking forward to Sunday. Can we have somemore > people turn up this time please? > > Spud. I'll be there, barring any more alarm clock failures. -Phasor

Spudster wrote: > > Come on out Larry, you'll fit right in. Run a high-downforce setup, get > your car balanced, and go slow through the corners and you'll do fine. Thanks Spud: Laps or race percentage? My best was 1:52 last night. Most of the few laps I didn't run into the lawn I was turning a couple of seconds off that. I'm using that "TN" setup that's been floating around the net as a base setup. This sets downforce at 50/49, so the DF is already almost maxed. I prefer to drive F1C online. If you see a session named "Slowpoke's Short Sprints", come on in. Larry

Haqsau wrote: > I'm a little worried about this track. Turn 1 on lap 1 is liable to > be a disaster if we don't do something to prevent it. Can we make a > gentleman's agreement that on lap 1 we will not try to pass going > into turns 1 and 2?I'm more than happy with that, it could be a BIG mess if we all race into there for position.

Quoted text (8 lines)

> > BTW what kind of lap times are you guys getting? I managed a high > 1:38 in qual trim yesterday. Close to the benchmark but still about > 2 sec slower than the AI at 100%. There are still a few rough spots > but I'm not sure if I will be able to iron them out before Sunday. > I'm still not very consistent through turns 7 and 8 and turns 11 and > 14 are still largely guesswork. So how are the rest of you doing? > Neil, I trust you are down in the 1:36's somewhere? ;o)

I've just run a few laps, my best time is a 1:36.5 but I'm very inconsistent here. I can never *quite* find the brake and turn in points on the same turns you mention ;) -- Ian P <email invalid due to spammers>

In article <[email hidden]>, Larry Lindstrom <[email hidden]> writes: > Laps or race percentage? 40% race distance works out to 22 laps in F1rst... Eldred -- .sig file is at the cleaners... Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank -2.4 N2k3 rank ? Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Won't be able to make it.... Have been too busy lately, so I guess It is best to release my seat from RASF1 (Renault) Greetz, Jimster "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I'm a little worried about this track. Turn 1 on lap 1 is liable to be a > disaster if we don't do something to prevent it. Can we make agentleman's > agreement that on lap 1 we will not try to pass going into turns 1 and 2? > You aren't likely to succeed anyway, because getting inside on turn 1 puts > you outside on turn 2, and there is just enough track width there that a > determined person could hold you off. After that race as normal, but lap1 > will be a disaster if we don't use some common sense in the first twoturns. > And please remember, if you are following somebody into a tight turn you > have to brake WHEN your opponent brakes, not WHERE your opponent brakes. > When the first guy gets to about the 70 meter point we are all going tohave > to start braking to avoid disaster. > > BTW what kind of lap times are you guys getting? I managed a high 1:38 in > qual trim yesterday. Close to the benchmark but still about 2 sec slower > than the AI at 100%. There are still a few rough spots but I'm not sureif > I will be able to iron them out before Sunday. I'm still not very > consistent through turns 7 and 8 and turns 11 and 14 are still largely > guesswork. So how are the rest of you doing? Neil, I trust you are downin > the 1:36's somewhere? ;o) > >

"Ian P" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Sb4bb.8237$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (19 lines)

> Haqsau wrote: > > I'm a little worried about this track. Turn 1 on lap 1 is liable to > > be a disaster if we don't do something to prevent it. Can we make a > > gentleman's agreement that on lap 1 we will not try to pass going > > into turns 1 and 2? > I'm more than happy with that, it could be a BIG mess if we all race into > there for position. > > > > > BTW what kind of lap times are you guys getting? I managed a high > > 1:38 in qual trim yesterday. Close to the benchmark but still about > > 2 sec slower than the AI at 100%. There are still a few rough spots > > but I'm not sure if I will be able to iron them out before Sunday. > > I'm still not very consistent through turns 7 and 8 and turns 11 and > > 14 are still largely guesswork. So how are the rest of you doing? > > Neil, I trust you are down in the 1:36's somewhere? ;o) > > > I've just run a few laps, my best time is a 1:36.5 but I'm very

inconsistent > here. I can never *quite* find the brake and turn in points on the same > turns you mention ;) I'd love to have a go some time... I tried today, but it wouldn't let me in, password changed??? KK

Server is now up for practice - qual will start at about 12:25 eastern... -- .sig file is at the cleaners... Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank -2.4 N2k3 rank ? Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"Kasper Kowalski" <

Quoted text (7 lines)

> > I'd love to have a go some time... I tried today, but it wouldn't let > me in, password changed??? > > KK > >

nope the password is the same...ras but were you using a bonestock install of F1 C or did you have the RH2003 mod loaded? You can have both, but F1rst2 must know where to look for the proper files. I got a flashing phone jack icon, so I assume my connection went south. After about a minute I got removed from the game and couldn't rejoin. two for two. *($)%*$# dave henrie

I'm really getting tired of this... Of course since I have to try to get rid of the server car, I lost about 10 seconds on the start. It looked like a race between Larry and me(we each kept making small mistakes. After a while I'd pulled away from Larry, then got NAILED by the leader as he lapped me. Even though I gave him plenty of room. He didn't seem to get any damage, but it destroyed the back of my car. I tried to limp back to the pits(spinning 4 or 5 times in the process). When I realized that I'd missed the pit entrance, I just said "fuck it", and quit. How the hell can you run over a car like that and keep going? I have to ask myself why I keep doing this...? Grrr.... Eldred -- .sig file is at the cleaners... Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank -2.4 N2k3 rank ? Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Did something happen to the server? I got disconnected at around lap 20. When I got back into F1RST2 it didn't look like it was up anymore. Also seemed like I was seeing a lot of warping. I did pretty poorly this time. I think I'm going to have to stop using separate qual and race configs, I really have a hard time going back and forth between them. I think I qualified third but messed up on the very first lap of the race, putting me down two spots. Then I lost a wing somehow and I just about quit at that point. But no, I thought I would try and hang in there in case anybody else DNFed, but then the server crashed or something, I don't know what happened. Not fun. Really though a lot of this comes down to preparation (assuming you stay connected :). I ran over 500 laps before we raced at Hungary, and probably 200 or so before Australia. This time I only got in about 100, and it showed, I just had no consistency. Also got thrown off by my controller config. I just discovered this morning that my RAS player file had the axis centering messed up and I had the old 50% dead spot throttle bug as a result. That explains my problems with throttle control at the previous two races. No idea why only the RAS file was messed up and the others were fine. But that also meant that I now had to relearn the exit from each corner this morning during practice, because having a more responsive throttle totally threw me off at first. And to think I could have stayed down at Mid-Ohio, where I was yesterday, and had a lot more fun watching the SCCA Run-Offs. Oh well, I can't make it for the USGP next week but I'll probably be back for whatever is after that. "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I'm really getting tired of this... > Of course since I have to try to get rid of the server car, I lost about10 > seconds on the start. It looked like a race between Larry and me(we eachkept > making small mistakes. After a while I'd pulled away from Larry, then got > NAILED by the leader as he lapped me. Even though I gave him plenty ofroom. > He didn't seem to get any damage, but it destroyed the back of my car. Itried > to limp back to the pits(spinning 4 or 5 times in the process). When I > realized that I'd missed the pit entrance, I just said "fuck it", andquit. > How the hell can you run over a car like that and keep going? I have toask

Quoted text (12 lines)

> myself why I keep doing this...? > Grrr.... > > Eldred > -- > .sig file is at the cleaners... > > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPLRank -2.4 > N2k3 rank ? > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

EldredP wrote:

Quoted text (7 lines)

> I'm really getting tired of this... > Of course since I have to try to get rid of the server car, I lost > about 10 seconds on the start. It looked like a race between Larry > and me(we each kept making small mistakes. After a while I'd pulled > away from Larry, then got NAILED by the leader as he lapped me. Even > though I gave him plenty of room. He didn't seem to get any damage, > but it destroyed the back of my car.

Eldred, I've just looked at the replay, that was me, sorry. Im my defence, there is no contact from the client replay, however I should have tried to leave a bit more room for you. I tried to limp back to the > pits(spinning 4 or 5 times in the process). When I realized that I'd > missed the pit entrance, I just said "fuck it", and quit. How the > hell can you run over a car like that and keep going? I have to ask > myself why I keep doing this...? There was no contact from my view, I wouldn't knowingly take someone out of a race. I checked my mirrors on the next straight and you were still on track behind me.. > Grrr.... > > Eldred Once again, sorry for wrecking your race, it was certainly unintentional -- Ian P <email invalid due to spammers>

Warp issue. I really think something was just plain wrong with the server connection today. "Ian P" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:eWlbb.8525$[email hidden]... > > Eldred, I've just looked at the replay, that was me, sorry. > Im my defence, there is no contact from the client replay, however Ishould > have tried to leave a bit more room for you. > > There was no contact from my view, I wouldn't knowingly take someone outof > a race. > I checked my mirrors on the next straight and you were still on trackbehind > me.. > >

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I'm really getting tired of this... > Of course since I have to try to get rid of the server car, I lost about10 > seconds on the start. It looked like a race between Larry and me(we eachkept > making small mistakes. After a while I'd pulled away from Larry, then got > NAILED by the leader as he lapped me. Even though I gave him plenty ofroom. > He didn't seem to get any damage, but it destroyed the back of my car. Itried > to limp back to the pits(spinning 4 or 5 times in the process). When I > realized that I'd missed the pit entrance, I just said "fuck it", andquit. > How the hell can you run over a car like that and keep going? I have toask > myself why I keep doing this...? > Grrr.... > > Eldred Well I just had a look at my replay and the Renault did not move an inch, stayed right on the line and plowed on through like you weren't there - and I think you weren't, from his perspective. His car did not take any damage although he hit the back of you pretty hard. Gotta be a connection issue. Turn 1 & 2 went surprisingly well, even though the Jag tried to pass after our gentleman's agreement. I had pole and led the first lap with the Renault right behind me - turns out he was on a 1-stopper. I spun on lap 2 trying to keep in front of him but only lost 5 seconds, went to P2 and the car was OK. The Renault pitted halfway at which point I re-took the lead and won by 20 seconds. Great race from my perspecitive, the lappers did an outstanding job keeping out of the way. A very tough track to not make a mistake on - get a wheel on the other side of any of the curbs and it's pretty much game over, I got a gift. -Phasor

EldredP wrote:

Quoted text (9 lines)

> > I'm really getting tired of this... > Of course since I have to try to get rid of the server car, I lost about 10 > seconds on the start. It looked like a race between Larry and me(we each kept > making small mistakes. After a while I'd pulled away from Larry, then got > NAILED by the leader as he lapped me. Even though I gave him plenty of room. > He didn't seem to get any damage, but it destroyed the back of my car. I tried > to limp back to the pits(spinning 4 or 5 times in the process). When I > realized that I'd missed the pit entrance, I just said "fuck it", and quit.

Sorry to hear that Eldred: Yea, that's disappointing. I spun, but I felt we had a race. I think I was about 10 seconds behind you after my last excursion. Ian went by me without incident at the hairpin in the middle of the straight, or between the straits. From my replay, it looks like Ian came upon you on a long medium speed left where you had little opportunity to get out of his way. It looks like Ian needed to back off a little until you could let him by. But with ping and lag, as he says, he saw a different reality. > How the hell can you run over a car like that and keep going? I have to ask > myself why I keep doing this...? Are you asking why you host races with invulnerability turned off? I keep asking myself that too. > Grrr.... Thanks for hosting this race. Larry

Indeed. I watched you during qual's, I couldn't believe how much curb you were using. Are you doing something special with setup or aids? I got ate up by the curbs today. "Phasor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Bkmbb.199147$[email hidden]... > > A very tough track to not make a mistake on - get a wheel > on the other side of any of the curbs and it's pretty much game over, Igot

Quoted text (7 lines)

> a gift. > > -Phasor > > > >

In article <eWlbb.8525$[email hidden]>, "Ian P" <[email hidden]> writes: >Once again, sorry for wrecking your race, it was certainly unintentional I think I'm just cursed - I haven't had a good race YET... -- .sig file is at the cleaners... Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank -2.4 N2k3 rank ? Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Indeed. I watched you during qual's, I couldn't believe how much curb you > were using. Are you doing something special with setup or aids? I gotate > up by the curbs today. Well I did have stability control on. It was a stock The Notorious setup, I have no idea if he's done anything special to it, I'm not a setup guy. F1C rewards you for keeping tires on the curbs and severely punishes you for going over - throw in the extra-unforgiving curbs and the nasty decreasing radius cresting turns, and it's the toughest track on the calendar IMO. I think I just got real lucky in my second qual attempt, I'd never beaten 1:36 before ever. My subsequent attempts were junk. -Phasor

In article <[email hidden]>, Larry Lindstrom <[email hidden]> writes: > Are you asking why you host races with invulnerability >turned off? I keep asking myself that too. Running with damage tends to cut down on the 'playstation' mentality. It makes people drive a little better, knowing that if they screw up, they're out. With this touchy netcode I may have to re-think that, though... Eldred -- .sig file is at the cleaners... Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank -2.4 N2k3 rank ? Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"EldredP" wrote...

Quoted text (9 lines)

> I'm really getting tired of this... > Of course since I have to try to get rid of the server > car, I lost about 10 seconds on the start. It looked > like a race between Larry and me (we each kept making > small mistakes). After a while I'd pulled away from > Larry, then got NAILED by the leader as he lapped me. > Even though I gave him plenty of room. > He didn't seem to get any damage, but it destroyed the > back of my car.

The hallmark of a warp incident right there: if he didn't suffer any damage, the most likely explanation is there wasn't any accident at his end. F1C, while better at it than any other game in the series, is still not as good online as any of the Papy products. > I tried to limp back to the pits(spinning 4 or 5 times > in the process). When I realized that I'd missed the > pit entrance, I just said "fuck it", and quit. > How the hell can you run over a car like that and keep > going? I have to ask myself why I keep doing this...? > Grrr.... Because you *have* to race. Anything else just doesn't quite cut it. ;-) Jan. =---

Phasor wrote: > > "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > I'm really getting tired of this... < Snip >

Quoted text (11 lines)

> > How the hell can you run over a car like that and keep going? I have to > ask > > myself why I keep doing this...? > > Grrr.... > > > > Eldred > > Well I just had a look at my replay and the Renault did not move an inch, > stayed right on the line and plowed on through like you weren't there - and > I think you weren't, from his perspective. His car did not take any damage > although he hit the back of you pretty hard. Gotta be a connection issue.

< Snip > > Great race from my perspecitive, the lappers did an outstanding job keeping > out of the way. A very tough track to not make a mistake on - get a wheel > on the other side of any of the curbs and it's pretty much game over, I got > a gift. > > -Phasor Hi Phasor: "Lappers"? That's me! Thank you Phasor, I take that as a complement. The only positive quality I claimed when I started to seriously discuss participation in RASF1 earlier this week was that I could get out of peoples way under the blue flag. I can't help but wonder what kind of race it would have been if nobody was using stability assistance. What are your lap times with it and without it? Spa, A1, and now Malaysia, would be good reference tracks if you have those numbers. I see 1:48 at Spa where my best is 2:02, and 1:05 at A1 where my best is 1:12, in races I host with only traction and ABS allowed. Larry

A very fair question. I watched the replay and saw some people doing things that would have been impossible without stability control. Not going to get on anybody's case about it because, after all, we are allowing stability control. But I think it is clear that using stability control does allow you to achieve much faster laps than equally skilled people who aren't using it, and I think we should consider banning it. "Larry Lindstrom" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > I can't help but wonder what kind of race > it would have been if nobody was using > stability assistance. >

Okay, time to cry "foul!" I just watched the replay and from my perspective he, er, penetrated your rear end by a good two feet. This is BS. Replays and warp have nothing to do with this, all physics are supposed to be resolved on the server, and on the server either the accident happened or it didn't. If you got damaged then the accident clearly happened. So there are only two possibilities here, either a) the guy who nailed you had invulnerability on or b) F1C has a very strange damage model. Regarding b) I knocked a wing off just by dragging it on the grass, and I have seen yours fall off for no apparent reason in a previous race, so I don't believe the damage model is at fault here. I believe the guy who hit you must have had invulnerability on and somehow F1RST didn't catch it. "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I'm really getting tired of this... > Of course since I have to try to get rid of the server car, I lost about10 > seconds on the start. It looked like a race between Larry and me(we eachkept > making small mistakes. After a while I'd pulled away from Larry, then got > NAILED by the leader as he lapped me. Even though I gave him plenty ofroom. > He didn't seem to get any damage, but it destroyed the back of my car. Itried > to limp back to the pits(spinning 4 or 5 times in the process). When I > realized that I'd missed the pit entrance, I just said "fuck it", andquit. > How the hell can you run over a car like that and keep going? I have toask

Quoted text (12 lines)

> myself why I keep doing this...? > Grrr.... > > Eldred > -- > .sig file is at the cleaners... > > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPLRank -2.4 > N2k3 rank ? > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Let me clarify something before the shit starts to fly. I am not accusing anyone of knowingly cheating. However I know a lot of people practice with invulnerability on, and I think that we have all been assuming that F1RST would catch that and other aids and only allow what the server was set up to allow. It is possible that either F1RST does not catch everything that we thought it did or that the server is not correctly set up to prevent the use of invulnerability. Ian, do you practice with invulnerability on? I think we need to look into what it takes to make F1RST enforce that setting properly. "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > Okay, time to cry "foul!"

"Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]: > so I don't believe the > damage model is at fault here. I believe the guy who hit you must > have had invulnerability on and somehow F1RST didn't catch it. > Perhaps he had damaged enabled but set the percentage slider very low. I guess that is a setting we should include in the race day announcements. dh

Haqsau wrote:

Quoted text (14 lines)

> A very fair question. I watched the replay and saw some people doing > things that would have been impossible without stability control. > Not going to get on anybody's case about it because, after all, we > are allowing stability control. But I think it is clear that using > stability control does allow you to achieve much faster laps than > equally skilled people who aren't using it, and I think we should > consider banning it. > > "Larry Lindstrom" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... >> >> I can't help but wonder what kind of race >> it would have been if nobody was using >> stability assistance.

I'm all for banning any unrealistic driving aids, ie. everything except Low TC and auto shift. I would say that, I can't drive it with them switched on ;) Be nice to have a level playing field :) -- Ian P <email invalid due to spammers>

Haqsau wrote:

Quoted text (11 lines)

> Let me clarify something before the shit starts to fly. I am not > accusing anyone of knowingly cheating. However I know a lot of > people practice with invulnerability on, and I think that we have all > been assuming that F1RST would catch that and other aids and only > allow what the server was set up to allow. It is possible that > either F1RST does not catch everything that we thought it did or that > the server is not correctly set up to prevent the use of > invulnerability. Ian, do you practice with invulnerability on? I > think we need to look into what it takes to make F1RST enforce that > setting properly. >

I can categorically state that, a: I didn't have any contact with Eldred on my client side ( I can show you the replay if you require proof) and b: I most certainly didn't have invulnerability switched on (I never use it), as was demonstrated by my removal of rear wing after the slightest brush with the wall opposite pit straight just before my first flying lap in practice was *due* to start ! ;) -- Ian P <email invalid due to spammers>

Well point "a" is not entirely correct. You had contact with Eldred, that's why he lost his rear wing and spun. You may not have seen it due to a warp issue, but the contact definitely happened. If he had spun but not taken damage it could be argued that it was a driver error, but he lost a rear wing and got pushed sideways, that doesn't happen spontaneously. Again, not trying to point fingers at you, just trying to figure out what is going on. The contact definitely happened but somehow you continued without damage. That doesn't make sense. Either F1C has a messed up network model that allows each individual client to run its own physics independently of the others, or the damage model is screwed up, or possibly you have damage percentage turned down and F1RST doesn't catch that. Is that possible, Ian, do you have damage percentage turned down? Doesn't sound like it, but I have to ask. "Ian P" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:oBEbb.8807$[email hidden]... > > I can categorically state that, > a: I didn't have any contact with Eldred on my client side ( I can showyou > the replay if you require proof) and > b: I most certainly didn't have invulnerability switched on (I never use > it), as was demonstrated by my removal of rear wing after the slightest > brush with the wall opposite pit straight just before my first flying lapin

Quoted text (10 lines)

> practice was *due* to start ! ;) > > -- > > Ian P > <email invalid due to spammers> > > > >

I don't agree about TC low. The real teams don't have a fixed setting for TC, they tune it to each track. That being the case I don't think it is correct to say any one TC setting is more correct than another. None of us have the expertise or real world experience to say which TC setting is the most correct, so I think TC should be either categorically allowed or categorically disallowed, just as it is in real life. I am in favor of allowing it. "Ian P" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:mBEbb.8806$[email hidden]... > > I'm all for banning any unrealistic driving aids, ie. everything exceptLow

Quoted text (13 lines)

> TC and auto shift. > I would say that, I can't drive it with them switched on ;) > > Be nice to have a level playing field :) > > -- > > Ian P > <email invalid due to spammers> > > > >

"Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]:

Quoted text (7 lines)

> Either F1C has a messed up network model that > allows each individual client to run its own physics independently of > the others, or the damage model is screwed up, or possibly you have > damage percentage turned down and F1RST doesn't catch that. Is that > possible, Ian, do you have damage percentage turned down? Doesn't > sound like it, but I have to ask. >

I'll chip in an unrelelated note here: One of my first online experiences with f1 C, I had spun at the A1 ring. I looked down the track for any oncomming traffic and then rejoined the race. I immeadiately got yelled at by the host for pulling out in front of him and hitting him. I never saw him, I never heard him. dave henrie

Okay now I want to ask a question of everybody who raced - did you have any network problems - warps, disconnects, or anything else? Dave got disconnected in practice, I got disconnected around lap 20, and I saw people that I was following warping. F1C's throttling code is supposed to prevent that. My disconnect could have been the end of the race, but I didn't see or hear about the end of the race and I didn't get dropped back to chat, I just got dropped, period. Just seems like a lot of the things that happened yesterday can be traced to a bad network connection. Eldred's server is usually solid, but IIRC his "hosts" sometimes screw around with the connection or the server unbeknownst to him. "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (7 lines)

> > I'll chip in an unrelelated note here: One of my first online > experiences with f1 C, I had spun at the A1 ring. I looked down the track > for any oncomming traffic and then rejoined the race. I immeadiately got > yelled at by the host for pulling out in front of him and hitting him. I > never saw him, I never heard him. > dave henrie

Haqsau wrote: > Well point "a" is not entirely correct. You had contact with Eldred, > that's why he lost his rear wing and spun. You may not have seen it > due to a warp issue, but the contact definitely happened. That is why I said from my client side.

Quoted text (7 lines)

>If he had > spun but not taken damage it could be argued that it was a driver > error, but he lost a rear wing and got pushed sideways, that doesn't > happen spontaneously. Again, not trying to point fingers at you, > just trying to figure out what is going on. The contact definitely > happened but somehow you continued without damage. That doesn't make > sense.

Look at the average GPL replay, if there is a warp crash, the car on the inside of a turn will have no damage because as far as the client is concerned, no contact happened.

Quoted text (8 lines)

>Either F1C has a messed up network model that allows each > individual client to run its own physics independently of the others, > or the damage model is screwed up, or possibly you have damage > percentage turned down and F1RST doesn't catch that. >Is that > possible, Ian, do you have damage percentage turned down? Doesn't > sound like it, but I have to ask.

No, I checked after I saw Daves post and it's set to 100%, but as there was no contact from my client side, it wouldn't give me any damage regardless. The same as GPL. In future, I'm just going to leave a bigger gap for net errors ;) I normally race on a fast Euro server and warp has never been a great issue with a ping of 30ms :) Ian P <email invalid due to spammers>

Haqsau wrote:

Quoted text (11 lines)

> Okay now I want to ask a question of everybody who raced - did you > have any network problems - warps, disconnects, or anything else? > Dave got disconnected in practice, I got disconnected around lap 20, > and I saw people that I was following warping. F1C's throttling code > is supposed to prevent that. My disconnect could have been the end > of the race, but I didn't see or hear about the end of the race and I > didn't get dropped back to chat, I just got dropped, period. Just > seems like a lot of the things that happened yesterday can be traced > to a bad network connection. Eldred's server is usually solid, but > IIRC his "hosts" sometimes screw around with the connection or the > server unbeknownst to him.

The connection seemed fine until the penultimate lap when my modem error light came on, was then disconnected on the final lap. -- Ian P <email invalid due to spammers>

"Ian P" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:q6Hbb.1415$[email hidden]: > Haqsau wrote: >> Okay now I want to ask a question of everybody who raced - did you >> have any network problems > I wonder is the hurricane Isabel is not causing network problems still my problems also concern F1rst2. Both times I have been dropped, I have been unable to rejoin due to NOT getting F1rst2 to either display my prescense properly or even restarting. I know the F1rst2 server crashed at the Monza race, but for it to crash AGAIN when I was trying to relog in for Malaysia is not encouraging.

I guess I'm just not used to the way race sims do their networking. I have played a lot of shooters and they are all client/server, meaning the server is in charge of resolving all movement, physics, collisions, etc. and the client only displays the data, it does not figure anything out by itself. That is the most secure model and the only way I know of to prevent these kinds of errors. Apparently racing sims don't do this. For a two car collision, if it was resolved on the server both clients would experience it, regardless of whether or not it looked like they touched on the client side. Apparently that's not how F1C or GPL works. "Ian P" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:c6Hbb.1414$[email hidden]... > > No, I checked after I saw Daves post and it's set to 100%, but as therewas > no contact from my client side, it wouldn't give me any damage regardless. > The same as GPL. > > In future, I'm just going to leave a bigger gap for net errors ;) > I normally race on a fast Euro server and warp has never been a greatissue

Quoted text (8 lines)

> with a ping of 30ms :) > > Ian P > <email invalid due to spammers> > > > >

EldredP wrote:

Quoted text (12 lines)

> > In article <[email hidden]>, Larry Lindstrom > <[email hidden]> writes: > > > Are you asking why you host races with invulnerability > >turned off? I keep asking myself that too. > > Running with damage tends to cut down on the 'playstation' mentality. It makes > people drive a little better, knowing that if they screw up, they're out. With > this touchy netcode I may have to re-think that, though... > > Eldred

Hi Eldred: As a semi regular poster, I've read about RAS group races for a long time. Communities of serious sim racers who have grown familiar with each other over the years as they've honed their skills for each car and track. Is the playstation mentality a problem? With damage off, if you make a mistake you are punished by loosing position and time. Being stuck in the gravel consumes a lot of time. And you may not be responsible for the collision. The obvious benefit to you is that your practice and qualifying does reward you with the expected amount of track time. I would have been benefited from damage off, I didn't hit anything, I would have had you to race against. This is RAS, serious sim racers. I understand what that means, sigh me up for serious races. damage on or off. I'm only offering a thought as to getting more enjoyment out of the experience. And fewer hurt feelings. Stability assistance bothers me. I've never seen a post to RAS by a real F1 driver, so we're all guessing, but the consensus at RAS is that real F1 cars are allowed ABS and traction control. I'm using Low TC. These are twitchy cars. I spent plenty of time looking backward down the track after the slightest mistake. But we aren't talking GPL here, they can be controlled. I can even get a little slip and slide, not intentionally, but it's not a death sentence either. I haven't mastered them, but I'm starting to control these subtle and lively vehicles. I think you are missing out on a lot of fun, serious fun. While you are learning, crank up the wings and slow down a little in the curves. I should take a moment to talk about your collision with Ian. Like most of us, my replay shows the collision. I don't see any effort on your part to relinquish the racing line. But that is a tough curve, and you have a right to drive on the track, and to move over when it is safe to do so. If my replay was accurate, the fault would still be Ian's. Ian, we all accept that you weren't presented with the same environment we were, so I don't think anybody is blaming you. I had a lot of fun. Thanks again for hosting the race. Sorry about being such a pain in the ass. Larry

Haqsau wrote: > > Well point "a" is not entirely correct. You had contact with Eldred, that's > why he lost his rear wing and spun. Hi Haqsqu: Let me add to the confusion. I didn't see Eldred loose his wing during the collision. My replay shows the wing intact until he regained the track, and scrapped it off on a shallow skid against a wall after attempting the next right hander. I don't think anybody is blaming Ian. Larry

Haqsau wrote in news:[email hidden]:

Quoted text (25 lines)

> Okay now I want to ask a question of everybody who raced - did you > have any network problems - warps, disconnects, or anything else? > Dave got disconnected in practice, I got disconnected around lap > 20, and I saw people that I was following warping. F1C's > throttling code is supposed to prevent that. My disconnect could > have been the end of the race, but I didn't see or hear about the > end of the race and I didn't get dropped back to chat, I just got > dropped, period. Just seems like a lot of the things that > happened yesterday can be traced to a bad network connection. > Eldred's server is usually solid, but IIRC his "hosts" sometimes > screw around with the connection or the server unbeknownst to him. > > > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... >> >> I'll chip in an unrelelated note here: One of my first online >> experiences with f1 C, I had spun at the A1 ring. I looked down >> the track for any oncomming traffic and then rejoined the race. >> I immeadiately got yelled at by the host for pulling out in front >> of him and hitting him. I never saw him, I never heard him. >> dave henrie > > >

With all the virus-related mail going around the 'net these days, it's a wonder that *anything* runs properly. I suspect that, while perhaps not even the primary cause, this would certainly compound any other problems that came up -- the proverbial "last straw" kind of thing. I would recommend waiting until there were no obvious 'net issues before running full diagnostics on everyone's setups and on the servers. -- Darryl

Wow. That's just weird. "Larry Lindstrom" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (14 lines)

> > Hi Haqsqu: > > Let me add to the confusion. > > I didn't see Eldred loose his wing during the > collision. My replay shows the wing intact until > he regained the track, and scrapped it off on a > shallow skid against a wall after attempting the > next right hander. > > I don't think anybody is blaming Ian. > > Larry

Larry Lindstrom wrote:

Quoted text (48 lines)

> EldredP wrote: >> >> In article <[email hidden]>, Larry Lindstrom >> <[email hidden]> writes: >> >>> Are you asking why you host races with invulnerability >>> turned off? I keep asking myself that too. >> >> Running with damage tends to cut down on the 'playstation' >> mentality. It makes people drive a little better, knowing that if >> they screw up, they're out. With this touchy netcode I may have to >> re-think that, though... >> >> Eldred > > Hi Eldred: > > As a semi regular poster, I've read about RAS > group races for a long time. Communities of > serious sim racers who have grown familiar with > each other over the years as they've honed their > skills for each car and track. > > Is the playstation mentality a problem? > > With damage off, if you make a mistake you are > punished by loosing position and time. Being stuck > in the gravel consumes a lot of time. And you may > not be responsible for the collision. > > The obvious benefit to you is that your practice > and qualifying does reward you with the expected > amount of track time. I would have been benefited > from damage off, I didn't hit anything, I would > have had you to race against. > > This is RAS, serious sim racers. I understand > what that means, sigh me up for serious races. > damage on or off. I'm only offering a thought as > to getting more enjoyment out of the experience. > And fewer hurt feelings. > > Stability assistance bothers me. > > I've never seen a post to RAS by a real F1 > driver, so we're all guessing, but the consensus at > RAS is that real F1 cars are allowed ABS and > traction control. I'm using Low TC.

No ABS in real F1

Quoted text (20 lines)

> > These are twitchy cars. I spent plenty of time > looking backward down the track after the slightest > mistake. But we aren't talking GPL here, they can > be controlled. I can even get a little slip and > slide, not intentionally, but it's not a death > sentence either. I haven't mastered them, but I'm > starting to control these subtle and lively > vehicles. I think you are missing out on a lot of > fun, serious fun. While you are learning, crank > up the wings and slow down a little in the curves. > > I should take a moment to talk about your > collision with Ian. Like most of us, my replay > shows the collision. I don't see any effort on > your part to relinquish the racing line. But > that is a tough curve, and you have a right to > drive on the track, and to move over when it is > safe to do so. If my replay was accurate, the > fault would still be Ian's.

Yes, I've admitted it was my fault and apologised. I genuinely thought tere was enough room though, which there had have been if not for warp. > Ian, we all accept > that you weren't presented with the same > environment we were, so I don't think anybody is > blaming you. NP, as I said, it was my mistake :) > > I had a lot of fun. Thanks again for hosting > > Larry Me too, it was a good race from my perspective (except for the incident with Eldred, which I didn't know about until after the race.) -- Ian P <email invalid due to spammers>

Haqsau wrote:

Quoted text (11 lines)

> I guess I'm just not used to the way race sims do their networking. > I have played a lot of shooters and they are all client/server, > meaning the server is in charge of resolving all movement, physics, > collisions, etc. and the client only displays the data, it does not > figure anything out by itself. That is the most secure model and the > only way I know of to prevent these kinds of errors. Apparently > racing sims don't do this. For a two car collision, if it was > resolved on the server both clients would experience it, regardless > of whether or not it looked like they touched on the client side. > Apparently that's not how F1C or GPL works. >

I think the majority of sim developers could learn a thing or two from the people who made LFS. The netplay in that is about the best I've come across, you can literally run door to door. -- Ian P <email invalid due to spammers>

"Phasor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Bkmbb.199147$[email hidden]... [snip] > Turn 1 & 2 went surprisingly well, even though the Jag tried to pass after > our gentleman's agreement.[snip] Yeah - sorry bout that. I was in tune with the agreement but the sheer degree to which everyone slowed caught me out. I thought it best to move into the gap rather than get punted. I slowed round T2 to let you back past. I think it was you but there were 14,297 McLarens on track ;) I managed the astounding feat of a simple spin and then failing to grab the clutch in time. What a *****. I'm feeling like Eldred at the moment - can't seem to get a flow going. There's always next week :) cya

"Neil Charlton"

Quoted text (7 lines)

> I managed the astounding feat of a simple spin and then failing to > grab the clutch in time. What a *****. > > I'm feeling like Eldred at the moment - can't seem to get a flow > going. There's always next week :) > > cya

There is a starter button you can enable. I haven't used it with F1 but in the Le Mans mod it's 'fun' to shut down your engine during a pitstop. Then restart and go... dave henrie

> "Lappers"? That's me! > > Thank you Phasor, I take that as a > complement. As it was intended! When the situation arises, I think RAS'ers are very good at keeing their lapped car out of the way. I find it very difficult thing to do well.

Quoted text (7 lines)

> What are your lap times with it and without > it? Spa, A1, and now Malaysia, would be good > reference tracks if you have those numbers. > I see 1:48 at Spa where my best is 2:02, and > 1:05 at A1 where my best is 1:12, in races I > host with only traction and ABS allowed. > Larry

I don't remember my SA vs. non-SA times, but it most definately makes a huge difference - perhaps the most of any of the aids. I am completely in favor of turning off stability control, and any other aids the group wants to ban. There was definately something quirky with the connection - my crew chief audio messages were several laps behind what was actually happening, right from the start. Perhaps it had something to do with all of us connecting the server at exactly the same time? That was my only issue though - I didn't see a single warp or lag onscreen, and all the timing screens appear to have been correct. I didn't get the disco icon until halfway through my victory lap (23), I just thought Eldred had pulled the plug. -Phasor

In article <[email hidden]>, Larry Lindstrom <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted text (8 lines)

> As a semi regular poster, I've read about RAS >group races for a long time. Communities of >serious sim racers who have grown familiar with >each other over the years as they've honed their >skills for each car and track. > > Is the playstation mentality a problem? >

At times, yes. > With damage off, if you make a mistake you are >punished by loosing position and time. Being stuck >in the gravel consumes a lot of time. And you may >not be responsible for the collision. That's the same point I tried to make in allowing 'no yellow flag' racing. The argument against that was that if you spin and crash, you have no chance to win the race anymore. Hmm, I thought that happened in real racing as well...<g>

Quoted text (29 lines)

> The obvious benefit to you is that your practice >and qualifying does reward you with the expected >amount of track time. I would have been benefited >from damage off, I didn't hit anything, I would >have had you to race against. > > This is RAS, serious sim racers. I understand >what that means, sigh me up for serious races. >damage on or off. I'm only offering a thought as >to getting more enjoyment out of the experience. >And fewer hurt feelings. > > Stability assistance bothers me. > > I've never seen a post to RAS by a real F1 >driver, so we're all guessing, but the consensus at >RAS is that real F1 cars are allowed ABS and >traction control. I'm using Low TC. > > These are twitchy cars. I spent plenty of time >looking backward down the track after the slightest >mistake. But we aren't talking GPL here, they can >be controlled. I can even get a little slip and >slide, not intentionally, but it's not a death >sentence either. I haven't mastered them, but I'm >starting to control these subtle and lively >vehicles. I think you are missing out on a lot of >fun, serious fun. While you are learning, crank >up the wings and slow down a little in the curves.

When I drove without stability, I couldn't even complete ONE lap without spinning. Seriously. Our GPL league ran a few races at Magny-Cours. Me, being the realism junkie that I am, took to the track without any of the driving aids. Couldn't do it. Even after turning on TC at the suggestion of another league member, I was still 20 seconds or so off the pace. Turning on stability let me gain about 5 or 6 seconds, but not nearly enough to keep up. It helps, but it isn't going to make a slow driver(me) competitive with fast drivers(everyone else). I think that if we banned stability, most people would be spinning off every other turn. That's not fun at ALL. I might be convinced to allow invulnerability, but I have my doubts about banning stability. Eldred -- .sig file is at the cleaners... Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank -2.4 N2k3 rank ? Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted text (10 lines)

>Okay now I want to ask a question of everybody who raced - did you have any >network problems - warps, disconnects, or anything else? Dave got >disconnected in practice, I got disconnected around lap 20, and I saw people >that I was following warping. F1C's throttling code is supposed to prevent >that. My disconnect could have been the end of the race, but I didn't see >or hear about the end of the race and I didn't get dropped back to chat, I >just got dropped, period. Just seems like a lot of the things that happened >yesterday can be traced to a bad network connection. Eldred's server is >usually solid, but IIRC his "hosts" sometimes screw around with the >connection or the server unbeknownst to him.

When I went into the office this morning, the server was sitting at the login screen. In other words, it re-booted. Not sure why, either. I can't blame another league, because that isn't the server that got used for other races. Argh... Eldred -- .sig file is at the cleaners... Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank -2.4 N2k3 rank ? Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted text (8 lines)

>Well point "a" is not entirely correct. You had contact with Eldred, that's >why he lost his rear wing and spun. You may not have seen it due to a warp >issue, but the contact definitely happened. If he had spun but not taken >damage it could be argued that it was a driver error, but he lost a rear >wing and got pushed sideways, that doesn't happen spontaneously. Again, not >trying to point fingers at you, just trying to figure out what is going on. >The contact definitely happened but somehow you continued without damage. >That doesn't make sense.

Same thing happens in GPL and N2K3 all the time. One car doesn't see(or feel) any contact, but the other car does gymnastics because of it... Eldred -- .sig file is at the cleaners... Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank -2.4 N2k3 rank ? Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted text (11 lines)

>Okay, time to cry "foul!" I just watched the replay and from my perspective >he, er, penetrated your rear end by a good two feet. This is BS. Replays >and warp have nothing to do with this, all physics are supposed to be >resolved on the server, and on the server either the accident happened or it >didn't. If you got damaged then the accident clearly happened. So there >are only two possibilities here, either a) the guy who nailed you had >invulnerability on or b) F1C has a very strange damage model. Regarding b) >I knocked a wing off just by dragging it on the grass, and I have seen yours >fall off for no apparent reason in a previous race, so I don't believe the >damage model is at fault here. I believe the guy who hit you must have had >invulnerability on and somehow F1RST didn't catch it.

Nah, I can believe that it was warp. This netcode isn't all that we'd like. I see cars making moves that LOOK impossible, but they do it. The time you thought you'd seen my wing fall off for no apparent reason, you just missed me bouncing off a wall seconds earlier... Eldred -- .sig file is at the cleaners... Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank -2.4 N2k3 rank ? Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

EldredP wrote: > It helps, but it isn't going to make a slow driver(me) competitive with fast > drivers(everyone else). Euh, if it's any consolation Eldred, I think your GPL Kyalami time of 1:20.5 is pretty goshdarn red hot :) Only recently managed 1:20.6 myself. Regards, Rudy (GPLRank -10)

Cheers Dave - I never knew that. I'll go looking for it. Regards "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (10 lines)

> "Neil Charlton" > > I managed the astounding feat of a simple spin and then failing to > > grab the clutch in time. What a *****. > > > > I'm feeling like Eldred at the moment - can't seem to get a flow > > going. There's always next week :) > > > > cya > > There is a starter button you can enable. I haven't used it with F1

but > in the Le Mans mod it's 'fun' to shut down your engine during a pitstop. > Then restart and go... > > dave henrie >

That's what I don't get. Clearly Eldred is not slow or incompetent, his GPL rank is proof that he is fast and competent. His rank is certainly much better than mine. So I am really starting to wonder, Eldred (if you're still listening :) if you aren't just having some fundamental problem with frame rate, or controller setup, or car setup in F1C. It doesn't make sense to me that an experienced racer like yourself would be having so much trouble IF everything was set up properly. What kind of frame rates are you getting? Have you followed the controller setups that I have posted here? If you look in the controller screen in game and move your controls, does the onscreen display move linearly? Are you using the setups that come with the game or someone else's? Something has got to be amiss here. "Ruud Dingemans" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:bkooup$6i7$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (10 lines)

> > > Euh, if it's any consolation Eldred, I think your GPL Kyalami time of > 1:20.5 is pretty goshdarn red hot :) Only recently managed 1:20.6 > myself. > > > Regards, Rudy > (GPLRank -10) >

Haqsau wrote:

Quoted text (12 lines)

> > That's what I don't get. Clearly Eldred is not slow or incompetent, his GPL > rank is proof that he is fast and competent. His rank is certainly much > better than mine. So I am really starting to wonder, Eldred (if you're > still listening :) if you aren't just having some fundamental problem with > frame rate, or controller setup, or car setup in F1C. It doesn't make sense > to me that an experienced racer like yourself would be having so much > trouble IF everything was set up properly. What kind of frame rates are you > getting? Have you followed the controller setups that I have posted here? > If you look in the controller screen in game and move your controls, does > the onscreen display move linearly? Are you using the setups that come with > the game or someone else's? Something has got to be amiss here.

Hi Haqsau: If you have any setups, or tips, I'd like to see them. Larry

See the thread "why is it than in F1C...." posted by Kasper Kowalski today. The camber and toe angles are IMO the second most critical thing in F1C, the first being wing setting. Other than that there are a lot of things that are more a matter of taste and driving style, and a function of which aids you are using. A setup designed for full TC will be too loose with less TC, and a setup designed for no TC will be impossibly tight with full TC. Trail brakers need different brake bias and damper settings than straight line brakers. Etc. I'm comfortable with my setups but have no idea whether anyone else would consider them drivable. Tell you what, since this is a text only forum and F1C setup files are text format files, I will post in a reply to this note one of my setups. You can cut it and paste it and try it for yourself. I would appreciate some feedback on it. "Larry Lindstrom" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (7 lines)

> > Hi Haqsau: > > If you have any setups, or tips, I'd like to > see them. > > Larry

As promised, below is my race setup for the McLaren at Malaysia. If you want to try it, copy the text below into a text editor and save the file into your F1C Save\<playername>\Settings\Malaysia folder with an extension of .svm. I don't think it will necessarily work right on anything but the McLaren since some of the setting indices don't correspond to the same thing on all cars. Also it is designed for full TC so it won't handle right if you are not using full TC. That being said though, it should work okay on just about any high downforce track. Let me know what you think, I'd like to know if anybody else can drive this thing. ;o) === copy from below this line to the end of the post === [GENERAL] Notes="" Symmetric=1 CGRightSetting=0 CGRearSetting=3 WedgeSetting=0 TireCompoundSetting=1 FuelSetting=37 NumPitstopsSetting=2 Pitstop1Setting=47 Pitstop2Setting=47 Pitstop3Setting=64 [LEFTFENDER] FenderFlareSetting=0 [RIGHTFENDER] FenderFlareSetting=0 [FRONTWING] FWSetting=48 [REARWING] RWSetting=47 [BODYAERO] RadiatorSetting=2 BrakeDuctSetting=2 [SUSPENSION] FrontAntiSwaySetting=6 RearAntiSwaySetting=1 FrontToeInSetting=16 RearToeInSetting=24 LeftCasterSetting=58 RightCasterSetting=58 LeftTrackBarSetting=0 RightTrackBarSetting=0 Front3rdPackerSetting=5 Front3rdSpringSetting=8 Front3rdSlowBumpSetting=4 Front3rdFastBumpSetting=2 Front3rdSlowReboundSetting=3 Front3rdFastReboundSetting=2 Rear3rdPackerSetting=10 Rear3rdSpringSetting=7 Rear3rdSlowBumpSetting=4 Rear3rdFastBumpSetting=2 Rear3rdSlowReboundSetting=3 Rear3rdFastReboundSetting=2 [CONTROLS] SteerLockSetting=22 RearBrakeSetting=35 BrakePressureSetting=6 HandbrakePressSetting=0 [ENGINE] RevLimitSetting=10 EngineMapSetting=2 EngineBrakeMapSetting=2 [DRIVELINE] FinalDriveSetting=0 ReverseSetting=7 Gear1Setting=5 Gear2Setting=26 Gear3Setting=37 Gear4Setting=47 Gear5Setting=56 Gear6Setting=63 Gear7Setting=67 DiffPumpSetting=6 DiffPowerSetting=1 DiffCoastSetting=0 DiffPreloadSetting=0 [FRONTLEFT] CamberSetting=20 PressureSetting=44 PackerSetting=9 SpringSetting=4 RideHeightSetting=12 SlowBumpSetting=3 FastBumpSetting=1 SlowReboundSetting=2 FastReboundSetting=2 BrakeDiscSetting=1 BrakePadSetting=2 [FRONTRIGHT] CamberSetting=20 PressureSetting=44 PackerSetting=9 SpringSetting=4 RideHeightSetting=12 SlowBumpSetting=3 FastBumpSetting=1 SlowReboundSetting=2 FastReboundSetting=2 BrakeDiscSetting=1 BrakePadSetting=2 [REARLEFT] CamberSetting=30 PressureSetting=41 PackerSetting=12 SpringSetting=3 RideHeightSetting=20 SlowBumpSetting=2 FastBumpSetting=1 SlowReboundSetting=3 FastReboundSetting=2 BrakeDiscSetting=1 BrakePadSetting=2 [REARRIGHT] CamberSetting=30 PressureSetting=41 PackerSetting=12 SpringSetting=3 RideHeightSetting=20 SlowBumpSetting=2 FastBumpSetting=1 SlowReboundSetting=3 FastReboundSetting=2 BrakeDiscSetting=1 BrakePadSetting=2 [BASIC] Downforce=1.000000 Balance=0.395280 Ride=0.203540 Gearing=0.212389 Custom=1

In article <[email hidden]>, "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted text (11 lines)

>That's what I don't get. Clearly Eldred is not slow or incompetent, his GPL >rank is proof that he is fast and competent. His rank is certainly much >better than mine. So I am really starting to wonder, Eldred (if you're >still listening :) if you aren't just having some fundamental problem with >frame rate, or controller setup, or car setup in F1C. It doesn't make sense >to me that an experienced racer like yourself would be having so much >trouble IF everything was set up properly. What kind of frame rates are you >getting? Have you followed the controller setups that I have posted here? >If you look in the controller screen in game and move your controls, does >the onscreen display move linearly? Are you using the setups that come with >the game or someone else's? Something has got to be amiss here.

It might be controller, fps, car setup, or all of the above. I'm using the setups that come with the game, and I'm getting about 30 fps. You guys seem to think that my GPLRank is proof of my skill. But, it's taken me *5 YEARS* of incremental improvements to get my rank down that far. It took me TWO years just to get from +137.5(first rank) to +16.xx before I deleted my rank and started over. I would say that the guys who buy the game and get to the same spot in 2 weeks are much better. As far as controller setups that you posted, I'd have to find them again. I had to re-install everything after my HD crash. But, I wasn't that fast before the crash, either. I'm open to suggestions... -- .sig file is at the cleaners... Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank -2.4 N2k3 rank ? Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <bkooup$6i7$[email hidden]>, Ruud Dingemans <[email hidden]> writes: >Euh, if it's any consolation Eldred, I think your GPL Kyalami time of >1:20.5 is pretty goshdarn red hot :) Only recently managed 1:20.6 >myself. I must have been drafting someone for that time...<g> But, that time would be even faster if I could get a decent launch out ot the last turn. I'm giving up at *least* .5 sec there, and it really pisses me off. I just can't get back on the gas quick enough. Eldred -- .sig file is at the cleaners... Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank -2.4 N2k3 rank ? Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

EldredP wrote:

Quoted text (7 lines)

>>Euh, if it's any consolation Eldred, I think your GPL Kyalami time of >>1:20.5 is pretty goshdarn red hot :) Only recently managed 1:20.6 > that time would be > even faster if I could get a decent launch out ot the last turn. I'm giving up > at *least* .5 sec there, and it really pisses me off. I just can't get back on > the gas quick enough.

Same here. In the end, I let it drift to the outside rather a lot, lost some speed mid-turn, but was in a good position from there to accelerate really early right down to the finish line. But since you're 0.1 faster than me, maybe you should be giving *me* some tips here ;) Regards, Rudy (GPLRank -10)

EldredP wrote: > You guys seem to > think that my GPLRank is proof of my skill. But, it's taken me *5 YEARS* of > incremental improvements to get my rank down that far. Yeah, but Eldred, if you were totally incompetent you wouldn't even have *got* that far. You'd still be rowing around at the average GPLrank of +20ish. > I would say that the guys who buy the game and get to the same > spot in 2 weeks are much better. That's probably true - people who do 1:29 at Monza after an hour probably have loads of natural talent (or the talent to forget they're in a simulated car, and just floor the pedal as much as the software allows) - but they're a rare kind. Most racers can't do that kind of thing, so that doesn't make you slower than most. It sounds more like you're driving in some pretty alien-infested places, which is not the place to be if you're not green (- Hey, Kermit, get out of that Lotus right now, this was no frog hint). But what some have in speed, you, with those 5 years, by now have in experience. And that does count for something. Didn't you win a Nurburgring race a while ago? (and if the answer is "Yes but all others fell off the track", well, they shouldn't actually do that in a race, should they? That's part of racing too - the most important part, in fact.) Personally, I think in your case it may have to do something with 'mental setup'. You seem to think you're dreadful - which you're not - and as a result drive a bit too careful, losing a bit of speed, maybe not much, but enough to see the others pulling away, which may cause you to lose confidence in yourself even more. My attitude when racing *offline* is more like "I'm gonna beat you guys because I know I can - I've done it before." In general, yours seems more like "I might beat the others but I'd have to get lucky - I've done it before but that was just luck, not me". (In an online race, my mental state goes more toward 'I may not be the fastest guy around but I'm the one who will race strategically, will hound you in 2nd or 3rd place, and will eat you when you make a tiny mistake'. Rudolf means 'wolf' in old Germanic and that's kind of a fitting role model here ;-) ) > But, I wasn't that fast before the crash, either. I'm open to suggestions... In GPL: brake & accelerate earlier (and most of all: little bit more throttle when implementing the latter ;) In modern day F1: more wing, and even more throttle ;) Regards, Rudy (GPLRank -10) PS. I was trying to get the BRM faster at Zandvoort yesterday. I only had a 1:28.9 there and could only get down to 1:28.4 despite trying real hard. Studied a replay by Pierre Fabre, and mainly tried to imitate his (point of) gearshifts. Result (after a while of darn hard work - the BRM is SUCH a pig if you try to make it go somewhere near fast): 1:27.2. As you said, it's not the arrow, it's the way the Indian lets go of the bowstring <grin> If you want to try that setup too, it's available. PPS. You're working but still in school? ;)

Ruud Dingemans wrote: > Yeah, but Eldred, if you were totally incompetent you wouldn't even have *got* that far. > You'd still be rowing around at the average GPLrank of +20ish. Um, small addendum to "All" here, since I hit 'Send' a little too quickly: I don't actually think a GPLrank of +20ish or higher automatically makes you totally incompetent - parameters vary, after all, and Elred's are a rather special case ;) Regards, Rudy (GPLRank -10)

"Neil Charlton" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:bkpq10$6ji$[email hidden]: > Cheers Dave - I never knew that. I'll go looking for it. > > Regards > Here is the bit to look for in your player file. scoll down til you find this line: Options Num Controls="23" // Number of configurable controls displayed in options (I think the default number is 23) and change it to this: Options Num Controls="44" // Number of configurable controls displayed in options Then in the joystick options you can assign a key or button to the ignition and the starter...amoung other items... :) dave henrie

EldredP wrote in news:[email hidden]:

Quoted text (15 lines)

> In article <[email hidden]>, "Haqsau" > <[email hidden]> writes: > >>That's what I don't get. Clearly Eldred is not slow or >>incompetent, his GPL rank is proof that he is fast and competent. > > It might be controller, fps, car setup, or all of the above. I'm > using the setups that come with the game, and I'm getting about 30 > fps. You guys seem to think that my GPLRank is proof of my skill. > But, it's taken me *5 YEARS* of incremental improvements to get > my rank down that far. It took me TWO years just to get from > +137.5(first rank) to +16.xx before I deleted my rank and started > over. I would say that the guys who buy the game and get to the > same spot in 2 weeks are much better. >

Eldred, While I agree that someone who can work down to a negative GPL Rank in a couple of weeks are *pretty* good, that's rare. I myself started with a rank of well over 200, more than two years ago, and am still floating around +44. I think I've only managed to get two tracks negative, although, with the exception of Nurburgring where I am deadly slow, I'm usually under a second off the pace at the other tracks. Granted, GPL has a different driving style. Perhaps you are too tuned into that and it is affecting your F1C driving. In any case, I'm sure you will improve if you persevere. At least your computer works reliably enough to actually run the damn races. Mine keeps crashing in both GPL and F1C (and Flight Sim -- as if anyone cared about *that*.) Everyone has a different opinion about what is wrong, and so far, none of the theories has panned out. Damnably frustrating. I live vicariously through RASF1! -- Darryl

Quoted text (8 lines)

>PS. I was trying to get the BRM faster at Zandvoort yesterday. I only >had a 1:28.9 there and could only get down to 1:28.4 despite trying real >hard. Studied a replay by Pierre Fabre, and mainly tried to imitate his >(point of) gearshifts. Result (after a while of darn hard work - the BRM >is SUCH a pig if you try to make it go somewhere near fast): 1:27.2. As >you said, it's not the arrow, it's the way the Indian lets go of the >bowstring <grin> If you want to try that setup too, it's available. >

Yes, I'd like that setup. Don't know when I'll be able to practice, though. >PPS. You're working but still in school? ;) Yeah, I never got a degree when I was in college before(dropped out). After getting denied last year for a job advancement(yet again), I got pissed off and decided to go back to get my degree. At the age of 39 I enrolled in a community college to get an Associates deg. Eldred -- .sig file is at the cleaners... Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank -2.4 N2k3 rank ? Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Thanks for that Dave - and for all the future races in which I would have stalled out but now won't ;) Regards "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (26 lines)

> "Neil Charlton" <[email hidden]> wrote in > news:bkpq10$6ji$[email hidden]: > > > Cheers Dave - I never knew that. I'll go looking for it. > > > > Regards > > > Here is the bit to look for in your player file. > > scoll down til you find this line: > > Options Num Controls="23" // Number of configurable controls displayed in > options > (I think the default number is 23) > and change it to this: > > Options Num Controls="44" // Number of configurable controls displayed in > options > > Then in the joystick options you can assign a key or button to the > ignition and the starter...amoung other items... :) > > dave henrie > > >

I have a 1:20.987 there, which is slower than both of you, but according to GPLRA I lose all my time in turn 3, my exit from the final turn is pretty good. So, FWIW, you have to avoid the big hump right at the end of the turn, or at least keep the steering wheel straight when you go over it. Let your car go slightly wide in the middle (double apex is best) and then take a very late apex on the exit so you can come out very straight; short shift, and build up speed slowly from about mid corner. It'll stick if you get the right line, but you have to know how to get it over the hump or the rear end will come around on you. If you can't see the hump pull up a replay, advance to that part of the track, and then look at it from all the different views until you can see it. It's a big one. So, um, while we're talking, how does one get through turn 3 anyway? ;o) "Ruud Dingemans" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:bkr421$206$[email hidden]...

Quoted text (7 lines)

> EldredP wrote: > > >>Euh, if it's any consolation Eldred, I think your GPL Kyalami time of > >>1:20.5 is pretty goshdarn red hot :) Only recently managed 1:20.6 > > > that time would be > > even faster if I could get a decent launch out ot the last turn. I'm

giving up > > at *least* .5 sec there, and it really pisses me off. I just can't getback on

Quoted text (13 lines)

> > the gas quick enough. > > > Same here. In the end, I let it drift to the outside rather a lot, lost > some speed mid-turn, but was in a good position from there to accelerate > really early right down to the finish line. > > But since you're 0.1 faster than me, maybe you should be giving *me* > some tips here ;) > > Regards, Rudy > (GPLRank -10) >

> I'm using the > setups that come with the game, and I'm getting about 30 fps. Why??????? 1) Go here: http://www.gpx.it/ 2) Choose game:F1C, Section: Setups 3) Download TN USA QUAL SETUP 2002 4) Adjust steering lock to taste 5) Practice & Qualify with setup 6) Bump up brake discs & rad size to 4 for race 7) Kick Butt!

EldredP wrote: >>If you want to try that setup too, it's available. > Yes, I'd like that setup. Don't know when I'll be able to practice, though. Okey dokey, I'll hook it up to ya later on. (Gotta work shortly) > Yeah, I never got a degree when I was in college before(dropped out). After > getting denied last year for a job advancement(yet again), I got pissed off and > decided to go back to get my degree. At the age of 39 I enrolled in a > community college to get an Associates deg. (???) I'm always a bit puzzled by American and English educational vocabulary.. So different from our continental stuff. I suppose getting a 'degree' is like making final exams of the final year and like us Europeans getting a 'diploma', right? (Getting a 'degree' (graad) over here means getting a ... um... professional title, something like a bachelor's or master's title I guess. We are now starting to get those in Europe as well) I have no idea what Associates means, either (me dumb ;) Something like a 'guild'? Or a certain grade level? Or does it refer to *what* you're studying? I guess our educational system would be puzzling to Americans too... For example I went to 'atheneum' (=something like higher level education in college) but I doubt something like that is even known in American education. And Gymnasium probably means something completely different as well (phys ed?). Some things do generally translate, though. For example I got a 'baccalaureate' in journalism years ago, which would be a B.A. in journalism in the US (unless I'm quite mistaken). (Gotta say when I started to study that I had no idea we were gonna get one, we only wanted our 'diploma' and get out ASAP to get a proper job ;) Regards, Rudy (GPLRank -10)

In article <S3qcb.14116$I36.6847@pd7tw3no>, "Phasor" <[email hidden]> writes: >> I'm using the >> setups that come with the game, and I'm getting about 30 fps. > >Why??????? > Why? Because I don't have any setup skill, and I forgot that I'd downloaded those setups before. I lost them when my drive went south...

Quoted text (13 lines)

>1) Go here: http://www.gpx.it/ > >2) Choose game:F1C, Section: Setups > >3) Download TN USA QUAL SETUP 2002 > >4) Adjust steering lock to taste > >5) Practice & Qualify with setup > >6) Bump up brake discs & rad size to 4 for race > >7) Kick Butt!

Well, the site doesn't seem to be working at the moment. It's a conspiracy, I tell ya! :-) Any other place to get the TN setups from? Eldred -- .sig file is at the cleaners... Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank -2.4 N2k3 rank ? Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

>Well, the site doesn't seem to be working at the moment. It's a conspiracy, >I >tell ya! :-) >Any other place to get the TN setups from? Ack... Nevermind - I figured it out. I need to get some more sleep... Eldred -- .sig file is at the cleaners... Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank -2.4 N2k3 rank ? Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <bktmbf$g8d$[email hidden]>, Ruud Dingemans <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted text (24 lines)

>> Yeah, I never got a degree when I was in college before(dropped out). >After >> getting denied last year for a job advancement(yet again), I got pissed off >and >> decided to go back to get my degree. At the age of 39 I enrolled in a >> community college to get an Associates deg. > >(???) > >I'm always a bit puzzled by American and English educational >vocabulary.. So different from our continental stuff. > >I suppose getting a 'degree' is like making final exams of the final >year and like us Europeans getting a 'diploma', right? > > >(Getting a 'degree' (graad) over here means getting a ... um... >professional title, something like a bachelor's or master's title I >guess. We are now starting to get those in Europe as well) > > >I have no idea what Associates means, either (me dumb ;) Something >like a 'guild'? Or a certain grade level? Or does it refer to *what* >you're studying?

An Assosiates is a 2-year degree. I'm doing that basically just to have ANY degree to put on my resume. Next would be a Bachelors (B.A. - 4-year), then Masters(M.A.), then Doctorate(Ph.D.) I have no plans at the moment to go any farther than a B.A. I can't afford a Masters anyway. I don't even know how I'll afford the Bachelors yet. College is damn expensive...:-( Eldred -- .sig file is at the cleaners... Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank -2.4 N2k3 rank ? Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

EldredP wrote:

Quoted text (10 lines)

>>I have no idea what Associates means, either (me dumb ;) Something >>like a 'guild'? Or a certain grade level? Or does it refer to *what* >>you're studying? > > > An Assosiates is a 2-year degree. I'm doing that basically just to have ANY > degree to put on my resume. Next would be a Bachelors (B.A. - 4-year), then > Masters(M.A.), then Doctorate(Ph.D.) I have no plans at the moment to go any > farther than a B.A. I can't afford a Masters anyway. I don't even know how > I'll afford the Bachelors yet. College is damn expensive...:-(

Yeah, I know. I got lucky I passed my BA just before tuition grades were way up in later years (phew). (Still got kinda shafted afterwards though. In Holland, students in those years got a part 'loan' from the government to study, and part 'tuition subsidy' as a gift. Now we were meant to pay the 'loan' part back after we graduated. If your study was long or you missed a year, this could easily amount to thousands of dollars. Me, I passed 'normally' but still the 'loan' part amounted to about $ 7000 which I just kept in the bank for dire emergencies, and so I could just pay it right back afterwards. But since I still hadn't got a job after graduating, I was on the dole for a while. And there I got fined for *paying back* that $ 7000 to the government asap, since I wasn't keen to have that debt still standing and paying something like 10 per cent interest on it as well. So the government basically fined me for paying back my debt to the government... Talk about bureaucracy running rampant!) Thanks for explaining the 'degree' ranks, btw. Now I some some idea of what 'Associate' means. B.A. and Masters etc. seem little different from what we got here. In the past years this was more often called 'doctorate' over here, I think. What are you studying for, anyway? I mean what kind of study/work are you in atm? (arts, engineering, wallpainting, IT, Cisco expert, crash test dummy, car (re)design... ;) Regards, Rudy (GPLRank -10)