BEST USB wheel for GPL??

ACT LABS! ACT LABS!

Over to you Mr Kenewell <G> MS

> Important: > 1 not TOOOO expensive (TSW... forget it!)ACT LABS > 2 split axis for throttle and brakesACT LABS > 3 good solod qualityACT LABS! ACT LABS!

> 3 good solod quality Over to you Mr Kenewell <G> MS > > Karl > >

Hi, So I finally gave up on the PDPI-L4 gameport. I think it doesn't exist anymore. So I will replace my T2 with a newer USB wheel. What is the best wheel for GPL?? Important: 1 not TOOOO expensive (TSW... forget it!) 2 split axis for throttle and brakes 3 good solod quality Karl

Was the incorrect spelling of"Kennewell" done on purpose? m.seery <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3z_P4.6288$[email hidden]...

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> > 3 good solod quality > > Over to you Mr Kenewell <G> > > MS > > > > Karl > > > > > >

;-) MS "Ace" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8eq4dq$ltg$[email hidden]...

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> Was the incorrect spelling of"Kennewell" done on purpose? > > m.seery <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:3z_P4.6288$[email hidden]... > > > 3 good solod quality > > > > Over to you Mr Kenewell <G> > > > > MS > > > > > > Karl > > > > > > > > > > > >

You should know by now that anyone correcting gramma or sbelling is obliged to make some mistakes himself, otherwise the thread dies <G> MS "Ace" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8eq4dq$ltg$[email hidden]...

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> Was the incorrect spelling of"Kennewell" done on purpose? > > m.seery <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:3z_P4.6288$[email hidden]... > > > 3 good solod quality > > > > Over to you Mr Kenewell <G> > > > > MS > > > > > > Karl > > > > > > > > > > > >

Haven't used the Act Labs, so can't comment, but you may like to know that the Guillemot Ferrari is a load of cheap rubbish, and the new USB version of the MS Sidewinder FF wheel has a driver bug that slows GPL down about 30% (hopefully MS will fix this). Also the Thrustmaster FF is poor. I use the Logitech which is excellent, apart from the pedals, so I bought a MS USB Sidewinder Precision Racing Racing (non FF, doesn't have the driver bug either) so i could use just the pedals. A very nice combination. BTW force-feedback makes me much more consistent on GPL.

I've used the Guillemot, MS, and Logitech wheels extensively, and without doubt my favourite is the Guillemot Ferrari wheel. It has solid construction, excellent feel to the wheel, well placed paddles and good effects in GPL (and others). Some people had problems with the paddles breaking, but they changed the design, and everything is fine now. It also has good pedals, which is my main problem with the Logitech wheel - they are just too close together. I liked the MS wheel, and didn't experience the slowdown that Simon mentioned, but I was using the serial version not USB. Iain Simon Brown <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:6S2Q4.832$[email hidden]... > Haven't used the Act Labs, so can't comment, but you may like to know that > the Guillemot Ferrari is a load of cheap rubbish, and the new USB versionof > the MS Sidewinder FF wheel has a driver bug that slows GPL down about 30% > (hopefully MS will fix this). > Also the Thrustmaster FF is poor. > I use the Logitech which is excellent, apart from the pedals, so I boughta > MS USB Sidewinder Precision Racing Racing (non FF, doesn't have the driver > bug either) so i could use just the pedals. > A very nice combination. > BTW force-feedback makes me much more consistent on GPL. > >

> Haven't used the Act Labs, so can't comment, but you may like to know that > the Guillemot Ferrari is a load of cheap rubbish, WHY? Please explain

;-) MS

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> Was the incorrect spelling of"Kennewell" done on purpose? > > > 3 good solod quality > > Over to you Mr Kenewell <G> > > MS > > > Karl

WHY? Please explain

LIL. Datz better d00d <S> Miok

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> Oh wil u loik at taht, youve' dun it agen!!! > (help, I've turned into Keiran Larkin<eg>) > > You should know by now that anyone correcting gramma or sbelling is > obliged > > to make some mistakes himself, otherwise the thread dies <G> > > MS > > > Was the incorrect spelling of"Kennewell" done on purpose? > > > > > 3 good solod quality > > > > Over to you Mr Kenewell <G> > > > > MS > > > > > Karl

Oh wil u loik at taht, youve' dun it agen!!! (help, I've turned into Keiran Larkin<eg>) m.seery <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:GG2Q4.6640$[email hidden]... > You should know by now that anyone correcting gramma or sbelling isobliged

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> to make some mistakes himself, otherwise the thread dies <G> > > MS > "Ace" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:8eq4dq$ltg$[email hidden]... > > Was the incorrect spelling of"Kennewell" done on purpose? > > > > m.seery <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:3z_P4.6288$[email hidden]... > > > > 3 good solod quality > > > > > > Over to you Mr Kenewell <G> > > > > > > MS > > > > > > > > Karl > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

LIL. Datz better d00d <S> Miok "Ace" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8esdfa$6oh$[email hidden]...

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> Oh wil u loik at taht, youve' dun it agen!!! > (help, I've turned into Keiran Larkin<eg>) > > m.seery <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:GG2Q4.6640$[email hidden]... > > You should know by now that anyone correcting gramma or sbelling is > obliged > > to make some mistakes himself, otherwise the thread dies <G> > > > > MS > > "Ace" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:8eq4dq$ltg$[email hidden]... > > > Was the incorrect spelling of"Kennewell" done on purpose? > > > > > > m.seery <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:3z_P4.6288$[email hidden]... > > > > > 3 good solod quality > > > > > > > > Over to you Mr Kenewell <G> > > > > > > > > MS > > > > > > > > > > Karl > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

The Guillemot is a good wheel Karl Zosel <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:OC9Q4.124394$[email hidden]... > > Haven't used the Act Labs, so can't comment, but you may like to knowthat > > the Guillemot Ferrari is a load of cheap rubbish, > > > WHY? Please explain > >

The Guillemot is a good wheel

I agree totaly with Iain. I recently got this wheel and have found it excellent. The pedals are different but do not hinder the experience.I have found it an excellent wheel and am very pleased with it. Mayby there are more than one version than this wheel, but i hve found mine of very high quality. Kieran Iain Mackenzie <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:dCOQ4.16$[email hidden]... > I'm convinced there must be different versions of this wheel, and you havea

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> very early one. > > >The F1-style shifters are very flimsy, and wobble about. > Not on mine they don't. > > > They have to me moved along way to activate. > See above. They only need a fairly slight movement to change gear on mine, > which is great for quick shifting. > > > Also i've heard they break within a month of use. > Apparently some people with very early wheels had this problem. Pedals

were > redesigned and problems disappeared. > > > The clamping mechanism is really awful. It's a copy from the MS wheel, > but > > a poor copy. It's just really difficult to detach from the deskquickly.

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> Don't see the 'MS copy' thing at all. The clamp is not great for quick > removal, but the MS wheel is streets ahead of all others in this respect. > > > The pedals are very light and cheap. The tops of the pedals pivot for > some > > bizarre reason, which makes them difficult to use precisely (i had to > modify > > mine). The pedals have virtually no resistance. > > They pivot (like other wheel types, e.g. SC&T) to suit different chair > heights, foot-to-pedal angles, etc. My pedals have just the right amount

of > resistance and provide perfect sensitivity. > > The Guillemot is the 3rd wheel I've owned and certainly the best. > > > Finally, at full lock either way, the thumb rests can snag your thumbsand

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> > the wheel can become uncomfortable after prolonged use. > I have never found this, and don't see how the snagging could physically > happen to be honest. After many hours of use in one session, I still find > the wheel the most comfortable I've ever used. > > Iain > >

Ok, and don't shoot me, this is my honest opinion, and I do actually own this wheel (it's sat gathering dust in my cupboard). Firstly, the software. You can't set the sensitivity of individual axis. Also you can't make profiles, so you have to change the settings yourself for individual games. The hats and the buttons on the face of the wheel are badly placed and difficult to reach. Also the hats are a gimmick. It would have been preferable to have 4 or 6 quality buttons. The F1-style shifters are very flimsy, and wobble about. They have to me moved along way to activate. Also i've heard they break within a month of use. The stick shifter is too far from the wheel, and sort of round a corner, which makes it hard to use. Also the shifter is very stiff. The clamping mechanism is really awful. It's a copy from the MS wheel, but a poor copy. It's just really difficult to detach from the desk quickly. The pedals are very light and cheap. The tops of the pedals pivot for some bizarre reason, which makes them difficult to use precisely (i had to modify mine). The pedals have virtually no resistance. Finally, at full lock either way, the thumb rests can snag your thumbs and the wheel can become uncomfortable after prolonged use. As for the MS wheel, the driver bug was introduced with the new version 4 of the sidewinder software which ships only with the USB version of the wheel. This slow-down was replicated on a PC World machine when I took the wheel in to be tested and also several other people on this NG had the same problem (search back a few days for my posts about it). Simon :)

I'm convinced there must be different versions of this wheel, and you have a very early one. >The F1-style shifters are very flimsy, and wobble about.Not on mine they don't. > They have to me moved along way to activate.See above. They only need a fairly slight movement to change gear on mine, which is great for quick shifting. > Also i've heard they break within a month of use.Apparently some people with very early wheels had this problem. Pedals were redesigned and problems disappeared. > The clamping mechanism is really awful. It's a copy from the MS wheel,but > a poor copy. It's just really difficult to detach from the desk quickly.Don't see the 'MS copy' thing at all. The clamp is not great for quick removal, but the MS wheel is streets ahead of all others in this respect. > The pedals are very light and cheap. The tops of the pedals pivot forsome > bizarre reason, which makes them difficult to use precisely (i had tomodify > mine). The pedals have virtually no resistance. They pivot (like other wheel types, e.g. SC&T) to suit different chair heights, foot-to-pedal angles, etc. My pedals have just the right amount of resistance and provide perfect sensitivity. The Guillemot is the 3rd wheel I've owned and certainly the best. > Finally, at full lock either way, the thumb rests can snag your thumbs and > the wheel can become uncomfortable after prolonged use.I have never found this, and don't see how the snagging could physically happen to be honest. After many hours of use in one session, I still find the wheel the most comfortable I've ever used. Iain

Can you tell me how I can be sure I get a recent version of the wheel? What are the visual differences between the ealry and later versions??

You are talking about the LWFF? the new version came with SCGT, the older version contains F1RS if I remember correctly. The new version has stiffer springs in the pedals (still not stiff enough), has more ff, but I think the older wheel is mechanically better. I have the older version, I have 2 friends who have the newer version, and their wheels make more weird noised and don't turn as smooth as mine. IMHO, you're better off buying the older version, and swap the crappy LWFF pedals for some shiny CH pedals. Andre On Sat, 06 May 2000 10:59:10 GMT, "Karl Zosel" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Can you tell me how I can be sure I get a recent version of the wheel? >What are the visual differences between the ealry and later versions?? >

There's very little point in debating when i've already said that it's my honest opinion. I'm not just making this stuff up to annoy you, that's really what I think. :) I've currently got the Logitech FF and the Guillemot FF wheel and I don't use the Guillemot. I also owned a USB Sidewinder FF wheel but that had to go back, and i've got a MS Precision Racing Wheel and a F1 Racing Wheel (Thrustmaster). Every feature I criticize, I am criticizing compared to the Logitech wheel and the Thrustmaster pedals (the combo I use for GPL). If you think the pedal resistance is perfect you must have very weak legs. :) The Logitech pedals have more resistance (although I don't use them). The Sidewinder pedals have quite a lot more resistance. The Thrustmaster pedals have about 5 times the resistance of the Guillemot. It takes virtually no effort to make the Guillemot pedals move, which makes it difficult to avoid locking brakes in GPL. The only acceptable set of pedals i have ever used were on the TM F1 Racing Wheel. The pedals are vertical, like in a real racing car, and there is tons of resistance in the brake pedal, just like a real car. I hardly ever lock brakes in GPL with these pedals. My shifter are very cheap and wobble about all over the place. It's quite possible they've been improved. They are also too small and don't sit comfotably within range of the your fingers. Whereas the Logitech shifters are big, durable (they never look like they're going to break) and are more like buttons in their use. They only move about 0.5 centimetres at the end, whereas the Guillemot shifters have about twice the range of movement. When I mentioned something breaking in the first month it was the shifter I was talking about. The desk clamping mechanism is a copy of the MS one. It's got the big screw on the underneath, and a lock on the front (which on the MS wheel is a big lever thing) just like the MS one. That's not a big deal though, I personally don't care whether it's a copy or not. The problem is that it takes alot of effort and time to attach and remove from the desk. Again I'm comparing it to the Logitech clamping mechanism, which takes about 5 seconds (literally) to remove. Also the suckers are a bad idea, since when you are sliding the wheel into place they get caught and turn themselves upside-down. As for the thumb rests, instead of just being somewhere to put your thumb, they are more like tight holes. When the wheel is at full lock you almost have to take your thumbs out to avoid them snagging. Basically, the gap is too small, and goes too far into the body of the wheel. I presume you agree about the hats, buttons and software. Actually the software is one of the biggest problems. It just doesn't do anything. About all it can do it adjust FF levels, switch pedal modes and assign key presses to the buttons. Even with the sensitivity in Sports Car GT on the lowest level, its very difficult to drive in a straight line with the Guillemot wheel. The software should have let you set the sensitivity for all three axis. Try Sport Car GT on this wheel and you will see what I mean. Also the only way to switch between combined and seperate axis is to go into the control panel and do it yourself. Theres no profiles. Again comparing it to the Logitech, which has profiles which run automatically when you run your game. Once you've set up your profiles with the LWFF there's nothing else to do to be able to run your games with it. Another small criticism is that all the wires go to the wheel unit, which means you've got three wires ending up at the wheel unit, which makes an awful mess. You can either have them going round the back of your desk, which means you have to unplug two of them when you remove the wheel. Or you can have them coming up the front of your desk, which is just a mess. Whereas on the Logitech there is only one single wire going to the wheel and that wire comes from the back of your computer, and not from the pedals. Like I said, I own both these wheel, and I have no axe to grind. If I thought the Guillemot was better I would be using it. I did afterall buy it *after* the Logitech wheel. But yet it's packed away in it's box waiting for me to get round to selling it. Theres not much point in me saying I love this wheel and it's flawless, because that would just be lying. Since we disagree so much, why don't we just recommend that people looking for a good wheel try before they buy. :) Simon (sorry to go on so much)

Fair enough Simon, but I still think you've got a sub-standard example of the Guillemot in your possession. I would have taken it back if you have all these complaints. Iain Simon Brown <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:A7UQ4.5381$[email hidden]...

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> There's very little point in debating when i've already said that it's my > honest opinion. I'm not just making this stuff up to annoy you, that's > really what I think. :) I've currently got the Logitech FF and the > Guillemot FF wheel and I don't use the Guillemot. I also owned a USB > Sidewinder FF wheel but that had to go back, and i've got a MS Precision > Racing Wheel and a F1 Racing Wheel (Thrustmaster). > Every feature I criticize, I am criticizing compared to the Logitech wheel > and the Thrustmaster pedals (the combo I use for GPL). > > If you think the pedal resistance is perfect you must have very weak legs. > :) The Logitech pedals have more resistance (although I don't use them). > The Sidewinder pedals have quite a lot more resistance. The Thrustmaster > pedals have about 5 times the resistance of the Guillemot. It takes > virtually no effort to make the Guillemot pedals move, which makes it > difficult to avoid locking brakes in GPL. The only acceptable set of > pedals i have ever used were on the TM F1 Racing Wheel. The pedals are > vertical, like in a real racing car, and there is tons of resistance in

the > brake pedal, just like a real car. I hardly ever lock brakes in GPL with > these pedals. > > My shifter are very cheap and wobble about all over the place. It's quite > possible they've been improved. They are also too small and don't sit > comfotably within range of the your fingers. Whereas the Logitechshifters > are big, durable (they never look like they're going to break) and aremore > like buttons in their use. They only move about 0.5 centimetres at theend, > whereas the Guillemot shifters have about twice the range of movement.When > I mentioned something breaking in the first month it was the shifter I was > talking about. > > The desk clamping mechanism is a copy of the MS one. It's got the bigscrew > on the underneath, and a lock on the front (which on the MS wheel is a big > lever thing) just like the MS one. That's not a big deal though, I > personally don't care whether it's a copy or not. The problem is that it > takes alot of effort and time to attach and remove from the desk. AgainI'm > comparing it to the Logitech clamping mechanism, which takes about 5seconds > (literally) to remove. Also the suckers are a bad idea, since when youare > sliding the wheel into place they get caught and turn themselves > upside-down. > > As for the thumb rests, instead of just being somewhere to put your thumb, > they are more like tight holes. When the wheel is at full lock you almost > have to take your thumbs out to avoid them snagging. Basically, the gapis

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> too small, and goes too far into the body of the wheel. > > I presume you agree about the hats, buttons and software. Actually the > software is one of the biggest problems. It just doesn't do anything. > About all it can do it adjust FF levels, switch pedal modes and assign key > presses to the buttons. Even with the sensitivity in Sports Car GT on the > lowest level, its very difficult to drive in a straight line with the > Guillemot wheel. The software should have let you set the sensitivity for > all three axis. Try Sport Car GT on this wheel and you will see what I > mean. > > Also the only way to switch between combined and seperate axis is to go

into > the control panel and do it yourself. Theres no profiles. Againcomparing > it to the Logitech, which has profiles which run automatically when yourun

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> your game. Once you've set up your profiles with the LWFF there's nothing > else to do to be able to run your games with it. > > Another small criticism is that all the wires go to the wheel unit, which > means you've got three wires ending up at the wheel unit, which makes an > awful mess. You can either have them going round the back of your desk, > which means you have to unplug two of them when you remove the wheel. Or > you can have them coming up the front of your desk, which is just a mess. > Whereas on the Logitech there is only one single wire going to the wheel

and > that wire comes from the back of your computer, and not from the pedals. > > Like I said, I own both these wheel, and I have no axe to grind. If I > thought the Guillemot was better I would be using it. I did afterall buyit

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> *after* the Logitech wheel. But yet it's packed away in it's box waiting > for me to get round to selling it. Theres not much point in me saying I > love this wheel and it's flawless, because that would just be lying. > > Since we disagree so much, why don't we just recommend that people looking > for a good wheel try before they buy. :) > > Simon (sorry to go on so much) > > > > >

On Sat, 06 May 2000 14:11:55 GMT, Andre Warringa <[email hidden]> wrote: >You are talking about the LWFF? the new version came with SCGT, the >older version contains F1RS if I remember correctly. >The new version has stiffer springs in the pedals (still not stiff >enough), has more ff, but I think the older wheel is mechanically >better. right! >I have the older version, I have 2 friends who have the newer version, >and their wheels make more weird noised and don't turn as smooth as >mine. right! >IMHO, you're better off buying the older version, and swap the crappy >LWFF pedals for some shiny CH pedals. Check for a Taiwan one (sticker under the wheel unit), they are better than the newer China ones. There are also Chinese wheels in white box with F1RS outside, no good.

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> >Andre > >On Sat, 06 May 2000 10:59:10 GMT, "Karl Zosel" <[email hidden]> >wrote: > >>Can you tell me how I can be sure I get a recent version of the wheel? >>What are the visual differences between the ealry and later versions?? >>

--------------------------------------------- [email hidden] Remove "NOSPAM" before using my email-address JensSchumi homepage at http://members.xoom.com/JensSchu/ Racing simulation, esp. GPL Logitech Wingman FF optimization Classic cars, esp. Morris Minor Radio controlled airplanes

Would anyone care to comment on the ergonomics of the newer MS USB wheels? From pictures (haven't touched one in a store yet) I was concerned that they have changed the character of the grip. (Looks shinier in pictures?) How is it? - Matt