New vs. Old Circuits

While trying out the delightful new tracks Mr Dave Noonan has allowed us to use in GPL it struck me I was pressing Shift-R alot less than when I was learning the original GPL circuits. One reason for this is of course the fact that I have alot more GPL experiance now. Another reason I think is that the circuits today (i.e. ICR2, Nascar 2/1999/3) are alot safer and there is a bigger margin for error. For example a wheel on the grass at Rouen may well have you ending up against a tree, while the same thing at Elkhart lake will probarbly mean just a trip across the sand or grass. At Monaco running wide inevitably means wrapping your Lotus 49 around a lampost, while at Long Beach you most likely will get away with brushing the wall and acquiring no damage. I think these converted tracks give us an oppurtunity to drive old and present day tracks in the same cars and experiance the advances in track safety. Chris * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!

That was an argument that I was trying to pass on that even though we are driving the older cars doesn't mean that we can't update things. I.E.: run with modern rules, paint the cars, Run on new tracks, ect.. It was the authenticates<sp> that didn't want to hear it. probably still don't but are running the new tracks anyhow ;-)

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > For example a wheel on the grass at Rouen may well have you > ending up against a tree, while the same thing at Elkhart lake > will probarbly mean just a trip across the sand or grass. It's one reason why real F1 racing is totally different these days - right up to the mid-seventies, courage was a massive part of a driver's makeup, without it you couldn't be fast on the dangerous circuits of the day. Now F1 racing is far more like an athletic sporting skill such as competition tennis - something heroic has been lost, but today's society would not tolerate people dying on TV regularly in the name of sport. - Michael

Leo Landman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8bprtf$o59$[email hidden]...

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> In article <sHPD4.7097$[email hidden]> , "Mike Barlow" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > It was the authenticates<sp> that didn't want to hear it. > > GPL simply was too beautiful to spoil it right away and treat it like > any arcade game. It's like painting a mustache on a Rembrandt. You don't

Paint a moustache on a Rembrandt? Man, there's nothing but moustaches in a Rembrandt painting! I'm sure if Noonan had cranked out the track converter in the first month after GPL's release, people would still have gladly downloaded it and hit their favourite tracks. Part of the fun would be seeing first hand how different the driving model is, while ICR2 and N2 were still fresh in our minds. After all, what GPL junkie has even really touched those two in the last two years? Stephen

In article <sHPD4.7097$[email hidden]> , "Mike Barlow" <[email hidden]> wrote: > It was the authenticates<sp> that didn't want to hear it. GPL simply was too beautiful to spoil it right away and treat it like any arcade game. It's like painting a mustache on a Rembrandt. You don't have to be an authenticate, nostalgist or historian to see that. Now that the early reverence is wearing off, we'll start doing all those terrible things you mentioned, and sure enough I enjoy driving those new tracks! -- Bye, Leo (former authenticate)

In article <[email hidden]>, MichaelJP <[email hidden]> wrote: > >It's one reason why real F1 racing is totally different thesedays - >right up to the mid-seventies, courage was a massive part of adriver's >makeup, without it you couldn't be fast on the dangerouscircuits of the >day. > >Now F1 racing is far more like an athletic sporting skill suchas >competition tennis - something heroic has been lost, buttoday's society >would not tolerate people dying on TV regularly in the name ofsport. > >- Michael > I don't think anyone wants to see anyone else dying while racing or indeed doing anything else. I still think the modern F1 (or any other formulae) driver is very couragous. Even disregarding the possibility of human error, almost every component in that racing car is being pushed to the edges of it's tolerances and as quite often happens they can often fail. Maybe the drivers of '67 were braver, alot of them didn't get much older either. Chris * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!

You have to understand the way of thinking back then, Mr. Ace. The greatest fear of any driver (and I am taking this from the collected comments gleaned from various references down the years) was to be trapped in a burning car. It was actually considered safer to be ejected from a crashing vehicle than run the risk of being snared in the twisted spaceframe. (witness the accident to Stirling Moss at Goodwood.....he was literally wrapped in twisted metal and was soaked in fuel. Not nice....not nice at all). Most people agree that this mindset stemmed from the fact that after the war years a lot (and I mean a LOT) of racing drivers who had returned to civilian life did so after being demobbed from the various air forces and if there was one thing that aircrew had nightmares about it was being burned to death. This frame of mind, therefore, carried over to their sport which, after facing death every day, they considered the risks to be childs play in comparison. This attitude prevailed for a long time and I can tell you that even in 1967 seatbelts were the rarity in any form of racing car in Britain or Europe. I can personally also vouch for the fact that, in the same year, drivers of some open-wheelers were able to compete in shorts and T-shirts and not wear a helmet! It is the easiest thing in the world to be wise with the benefit of 40 years of hindsight but on the day itself all one can do is live that day......crystal balls do not work, I'm sorry to say. -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Ace <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8bsjbl$8nq$[email hidden]... > There are old pilots, there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold > pilots. If they'd had proper seatbelts in the 60s, I feel quite a few > drivers might have survived. Remember Parkes' accident at Spa ( at > Blanchimont, I think) in 67? He was lucky not to die there, but like so > many, when an accident happened, the driver got thrown right out of the car > > Chris Bloom wrote in message > <[email hidden]>... > >I don't think anyone wants to see anyone else dying while racing > >or indeed doing anything else. I still think the modern F1 (or > >any other formulae) driver is very couragous. Even disregarding > >the possibility of human error, almost every component in that > >racing car is being pushed to the edges of it's tolerances and > >as quite often happens they can often fail. Maybe the drivers > >of '67 were braver, alot of them didn't get much older either. > > > >Chris > > > > > > > >* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network > * > >The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free! > > > >

Some of us might, Leo. Some of us. It's all an individual thing, after all. -- Regards, Bruce Kennewell, Canberra, Australia. --------------------------- Leo Landman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8bprtf$o59$[email hidden]... > > Now that the early reverence is wearing off, we'll start doing all those > terrible things you mentioned, and sure enough I enjoy driving those new > tracks! >

There are old pilots, there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots. If they'd had proper seatbelts in the 60s, I feel quite a few drivers might have survived. Remember Parkes' accident at Spa ( at Blanchimont, I think) in 67? He was lucky not to die there, but like so many, when an accident happened, the driver got thrown right out of the car Chris Bloom wrote in message <[email hidden]>...

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>I don't think anyone wants to see anyone else dying while racing >or indeed doing anything else. I still think the modern F1 (or >any other formulae) driver is very couragous. Even disregarding >the possibility of human error, almost every component in that >racing car is being pushed to the edges of it's tolerances and >as quite often happens they can often fail. Maybe the drivers >of '67 were braver, alot of them didn't get much older either. > >Chris > > > >* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network

* >The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free! >

Bruce Kennewell wrote in message <[email hidden]>... >You have to understand the way of thinking back then, Mr. Ace. Of course. I am not one of the "seat-belt " brigade, and I am not criticising, just putting in my two cents.

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>The greatest fear of any driver (and I am taking this from the collected >comments gleaned from various references down the years) was to be trapped >in a burning car. It was actually considered safer to be ejected from a >crashing vehicle than run the risk of being snared in the twisted >spaceframe. (witness the accident to Stirling Moss at Goodwood.....he was >literally wrapped in twisted metal and was soaked in fuel. Not nice....not >nice at all). >

Exactly. After all, Bandini died at Monaco due to burns when he crashed at the chicane, but all told, if you had an accident in those days, you were lucky to survive without serious injury or worse, whether you were in the car or out of it <Snip> >This attitude prevailed for a long time and I can tell you that even in1967 >seatbelts were the rarity in any form of racing car in Britain or Europe.I >can personally also vouch for the fact that, in the same year, drivers of >some open-wheelers were able to compete in shorts and T-shirts and not wear >a helmet! I know most race-cars, especially purpose built race-cars did'nt have belts, and that quite a few drivers didn't bother with proper race-attire as we would consider it today. (Read Taruffi's "The Technique of Motor Racing") In the end, the design of the cars left a lot to be desired with regards to driver safety, but, they did not have had the knowledge that we have today about what happens to a vehicle in a crash, and could obviously not therefore design what we would consider a "safer" car. >It is the easiest thing in the world to be wise with the benefit of 40years >of hindsight but on the day itself all one can do is live that >day......crystal balls do not work, I'm sorry to say. > You're not the only one, Bruce. I do regret that so many drivers of their era were killed. I still remember some hideous accidents. Better car design and safer tracks would have helped, but as you say, we have the benefit of hindsight. Today, cars are safer. The real shame is that we are left with some truly awful tracks today for F1. and some once-great tracks have been slowed down, rather than improving the run-off areas etc.

>Part of the fun would be seeing first hand how >different the driving model is, while ICR2 and N2 were still fresh in our >minds. After all, what GPL junkie has even really touched those two in the >last two years? I still drive in a few ICR2 leagues, but GPL is my favorite racing sim ever. Dan Belcher Team Racing Unlimited http://simcrashes.cjb.net