Win2K + Voodoo3 3000 + GPL + MultiProcessor?

Hi, As a bit of an experiment, I have just installed GPL on a Win2K Professional machine. The machine has a Voodoo3 3000 card, and an SBLive sound card. The installation works just fine, and seems little different to Win98. My question is this - has anybody tried this sort of configuration on a twin processor machine? The Voodoo drivers mention a single processor, but do they work on a multiprocessor box too? If so, what sort of performance does the second processor give to the overall FPS? Cheers, Steve.

> If so, what sort of performance does the second processor give > to the overall FPS? Very little to none with respect to GPL. - George

Most software has to be written to support both proccesors otherwise the second one just sits there. > > If so, what sort of performance does the second processor give > > to the overall FPS? > Very little to none with respect to GPL. > - George

Not exactly true. Even a single threaded application will run on both processors (it just won't run on both at once) so neither processor sits there idle while the other spins away. Multi-threaded applications such as GPL can run on multiple processors at the same time, the problem in GPL is that the other threads aren't really doing enough for one to notice the benefits of SMP. So you can run a server and race at the same time, other than that there isn't much to be gained. - George

I heard that GPL 1.2 was programmed for 2 processors. 1 CPU for physics the other for AI and such. Try it out and tell us what you found :-) Jason.

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> Hi, > As a bit of an experiment, I have just installed GPL on a Win2K > Professional machine. The machine has a Voodoo3 3000 card, and an SBLive > sound card. > The installation works just fine, and seems little different to Win98. > My question is this - has anybody tried this sort of configuration on a > twin processor machine? The Voodoo drivers mention a single processor, > but do they work on a multiprocessor box too? If so, what sort of > performance does the second processor give to the overall FPS? > Cheers, > Steve.

-- Jason Monds http://members.home.net/gpl.mondsj/gpl - For my combined gas/brake setups http://members.home.net/stuff.mondsj/n3prc - Nascar3 Pro Racing Club http://members.home.net/stuff.mondsj/csp - Car Sim Project (Please remove 'no extra spork' when replying)

I have a C366/550 dual proc system under Win2k with an SBLive and a CL Riva TNT card (in addition to a V3/2000). GPL doesn't work with the V3 yet sadly, however with the Riva TNT I experienced an improvement of approximately 6-8 fps over GPL with the TNT in Win98. This was determined by what I was seeing at the start of the race (back of full field, all details on, etc...). In Win98 I noticed an 8-10fps improvement with a V3 over a TNT, so I suspect if V3 drivers come out for Win2k that work with GPL, that we can expect a similar improvement in Win2k. 36fps from race start to finish would then be a reality. BTW, GPL as of ver 1.1 was written to support dual-proc systems (but not 4, 8 or 16 processors ;). This from Randy Cassidy himself. Bill. On Mon, 13 Mar 2000 17:32 +0000 (GMT Standard Time),

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>Hi, >As a bit of an experiment, I have just installed GPL on a Win2K >Professional machine. The machine has a Voodoo3 3000 card, and an SBLive >sound card. >The installation works just fine, and seems little different to Win98. >My question is this - has anybody tried this sort of configuration on a >twin processor machine? The Voodoo drivers mention a single processor, >but do they work on a multiprocessor box too? If so, what sort of >performance does the second processor give to the overall FPS? >Cheers, >Steve.

George, >>Most software has to be written to support both proccesors otherwise thesecond one just sits there.<< This isn't true at all, unless you are refering to having a multi-threaded app. As far as I am aware (and I'm a software developer), there are no Win32 APIs that allow you pick and choose which processor your code runs on. If you have a multi-threaded application, then the Operating System will load balance them across the processors. However, even a single threaded app will benefit from multi-processors because the OS uses CPU cycles with the stuff that it has running, so if nothing else that load is balanced across the processors (not that it would necessarily show a big difference). I'm guessing that the Voodoo3 Win2K drivers rely on some sort of timing that gets messed up when there are two processors - does anybody know whether they are planning a multi-processor version? (I think I'll go ask in a 3DFX newsgroup, and report back). The current state of play is that for 300UKP, you could get two Celerons running at 533, and put them in an ABit BP6 dual motherboard, and this gives you quite a lot of power for your money. In addition this, when not gaming a dual processor box gives a far more responsive feel than a single (and even faster) processor machine. It's got to be the future... Steve.

"Steve Pritchard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> George, > > >>Most software has to be written to support both proccesors otherwise the > second one just sits there.<< > > This isn't true at all, unless you are refering to having a > multi-threaded app. As far as I am aware (and I'm a software developer), > there are no Win32 APIs that allow you pick and choose which processor > your code runs on. If you have a multi-threaded application, then the > Operating System will load balance them across the processors.

You can set processor affinity on each thread. It's a hint only, and Windows might choose to not honor it. I confirmed for myself last night that the V3 driver doesn't work on a dual processor machine. Don't even try it; you won't get to the options screen after doing this. I was thinking of removing Win98 from the system after the system stabilizes, but it looks like I might keep it around just for emergency software repairs, such as these. The TNT2 goes back in later this evening, and I'll see how things run with both processors going. The MSFF wheel is working fine business, and if frame rates viewing replays in NT are any indication, things should be very happy here. I really wish I had the sense to buy a PCI V3, instead of competing with the TNT2 for the AGP slot... Oh well, there's always E-Bay. :-) I still think it's awful that the NT V3 drivers worked with dual processors, but not the new one for W2K. Michael. > I'm guessing that the Voodoo3 Win2K drivers rely on some sort of timing > that gets messed up when there are two processors - does anybody know > whether they are planning a multi-processor version? (I think I'll go ask > in a 3DFX newsgroup, and report back). Very likely, it's a race condition that can only occur with true multi-processing. I'm sure they're working on it... the question really is when, not if.

"Steve Pritchard" <[email hidden]> wrote > George, No, not George. "Jeff Murchison JR" wrote what you quoted. Please be more careful in the future. > As far as I am aware (and I'm a software developer), there > are no Win32 APIs that allow you pick and choose which > processor your code runs on. Feel free to look up: SetThreadAffinityMask/SetProcessorAffinityMask in MSDN. > I'm guessing that the Voodoo3 Win2K drivers rely on some > sort of timing that gets messed up when there are two > processors - does anybody know whether they are > planning a multi-processor version? I believe Q3 & Q3A run under SMP on 3dfx hardware. Could be wrong though since I don't play either of these games. Regardless the difficulty is in rendering from more than a single thread (as in Quake) , not rendering from a single thread in a mult-threaded application (like GPL). > (I think I'll go ask in a 3DFX newsgroup, and report back). Be sure to don your protective gear, their newsgroups are rather harsh towards those who want to do something other than speculate and slag. - George

The 10 minutes to swap cards again will be worth it if it works. With the TNT and OGL drivers, the frame rate claims to be locked at 36 fps, but it definitely flickers, probably from those frames when it paints the mirrors. Any idea how to turn those off altogether? :-) I'll give it another try... where's that video mode switch setting? Michael. "George M. Smiley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:FyEz4.3656$[email hidden]... > > "Michael Young" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > I confirmed for myself last night that the V3 driver doesn't work on a > dual > > processor machine. Don't even try it; you won't get to the optionsscreen

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> > after doing this. > > Funny, I've been playing GPL on Win2K with a Voodoo3 on a SMP > system for close to three months now using both cobbled together > drivers and the 1.0 3dfx released drivers. The problem is more than > likely in the video mode switch, not multiple processors. I say that > because that is what I disabled in order to get GPL to work. > > I also downloaded the Q3A demo and it works just fine. So I dispute > your confirmation. > > - George > > > >

"Michael Young" <[email hidden]> wrote: > I confirmed for myself last night that the V3 driver doesn't work on adual > processor machine. Don't even try it; you won't get to the options screen > after doing this. Funny, I've been playing GPL on Win2K with a Voodoo3 on a SMP system for close to three months now using both cobbled together drivers and the 1.0 3dfx released drivers. The problem is more than likely in the video mode switch, not multiple processors. I say that because that is what I disabled in order to get GPL to work. I also downloaded the Q3A demo and it works just fine. So I dispute your confirmation. - George

do you know where I can find if there are 3d drivers for my creative banshee (16mb) video card? Last I checked they were 'TBA' but now I can't find anything, not even the place I originally found they were TBA. I'd really like to get win2k going again.. I had to pull it due to no GPL scooter

"Michael Young" <[email hidden]> wrote: > I'll give it another try... where's that video mode switch > setting? Not a switch, it is a holdover from the old Banshee patch (which I wrote for a completely different issue years ago). I'll send it to you if you like since the versions floating around the Internet GPL sites are rather stale. - George

George (got it right this time!), Yes, sorry, my fault completely - I should have been paying more attention. You live and learn, don't you? I don't suppose I've ever needed to use them, however, I did find this: "Setting thread affinity should generally be avoided, because it can interfere with the scheduler's ability to schedule threads effectively across processors. This can decrease the performance gains produced by parallel processing. An appropriate use of thread affinity is testing each processor." So it is interesting as to why anybody would want to use them under normal circumstances. If SMP boxes become more popular, then it would be interesting to see how sims could really harness their power by putting AI driver calculations on multiple threads. I wonder what GPL uses its threads for. Cheers, Steve.

George, (which I wrote for a completely different issue years ago). I'll send it to you if you like since the versions floating around the Internet GPL sites are rather stale.<< So, are you saying that if you fix GPL to run at X x Y resolution using your (cool and useful) GlideV2.dll wrapper, then GPL will work just fine on a multi-processor box? Sounds interesting. system for close to three months now using both cobbled together drivers and the 1.0 3dfx released drivers.<< Does that mean you've mixed and matched, or you started off with cobbled, and then moved to the reference drivers when they were released? Cheers, Steve.

On Fri, 17 Mar 2000 06:41 +0000 (GMT Standard Time), ... Normally, rendering threads that really do graphical output are never split across CPU's, even on big machines. This, because there usually is 1 graphics pipe (at least on consumer hw) in which to pump all vertices and information. Threads come in handy to splice up pre-graphics calculations. GPL is FULL of that, so splitting the AI and user physics into 1 thread, and the drawing into another would work. Although ofcourse the drawing thread should begin drawing ASAP. It's all a matter of balancing out the workload. Ruud van Gaal MarketGraph / MachTech: http://www.marketgraph.nl Art: http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery

> So it is interesting as to why anybody would want to use > them under normal circumstances. MS SQL Server has options that eventually boil down to processor affinity calls. The goal there being to increase performance by decreasing the number of processor cache reloads. It also can be used to prevent an application from soaking up all available processor time although I think MS has kicked that up a notch in Windows 2000 with processor quotas (at least they said they would, don't know if they actually did). Sadly, I don't see SMP boxes becoming more popular. They are always last on the list of setups to support and test for which doesn't exactly endear them to mainstream users. Anyone recall the lovely original SB Live! drivers? - George