Building a Race Setup From Scratch(N2003v1.2)

This is a guide that I found on the net about building a race setup from scratch for N2002. Is this ok for N2003v1.2?? I think that the physics between the N2002s and N2003v1.2 are different.If so what should be different in that guide? Now if a setup is made for a certain temperature,what are the consequences when the temp rises or drops?Does the handling of the car changes much with temp changes? Building a Race Setup From Scratch OK, we've read through the whole guide and we understand what everything is, how it works, and we can drive consistent laps with the fast setup but where the heck do we start if we want to build our own setups? First, I have to reiterate the driving part, please do not waist your own time in the garage if you cannot drive consistent laps yet. Consistent means you're hitting lap after lap within a tenth of a second of each other. Next, let's define our goals; we want the car to be fast, we want the car to be good on (RF) tire wear, we want the other 3 corners of the car to share as much of the load as possible, we want the car to be drivable in traffic, and we want the car to be forgiving enough to get out of bad situations should we mess up a little like by hitting the apron or having to check up really hard. We've got good goals; it's now time to start turning some wrenches. From a clean sheet start here and do the following before you take your first test spin: Springs: Start every track with a 700lb LF spring and a 900lb RF spring. At the back use 350 on the LR and 400 on the RR. Sway bars: Start with 1 inch sway bars front and rear. This is a little unrealistic but NR2002S does not take into account roll stiffness from tire pressures so we have to get a little crazy making up for that by using an extremely stiff rear sway bar. Roll couple: If you're building a speedway setup, you're going to want your roll couple to be in the low 70-percentile range. If you're building a short track or road course setup the roll couple will be closer to 80%. This may necessitate slightly different springs ratings and swaybar dimensions from above. But try to stick with a 200lb split at the front and a 50lb split at the rear. Front Bias: For speedways, start at 50.5% for shorter tracks, start at 50%. The only time you may want to go less than 50% is at Martinsville and New Hampshire where you may use as little as 47 or 48%. Left Bias: Always max left weight except for road courses. Camber: Start with +5.0 on the LF and -2.0 on the RF everywhere. Trackbars: Start with a 9-11 split everywhere. Wedge: Start with 0. Tire pressures: Start with the tire pressures used on the fast setup. Shocks: Start with the same settings as used on the fast setup. Spoiler: Start with 65 at Atlanta, Michigan, and Texas, Use 70 everywhere else. Ride Height: Start with 4.5 on the left side and 6.0 on the RR. Except for the roadies where you'll need to start with at least 5.0 on the LF and 6.25 at the back on both sides. Gear ratios and final drive: start with the same settings used on the fast setup. Caster: At the big tracks, start with 0 on the LF and +2.0 on the RF. Gradually increase that using the same 2 inch split as the tracks get smaller. Out of all the setup options, this is the loosest 'rule'. Caster is extremely driver dependent and will vary wildly between different drivers depending on controllers and your own personal preferences for feel. Brake Bias: Use as little front bias as possible but enough so I can brake confidently in any situation. I use 72% as a baseline and try to get it to 67% Linearity: I personally like to use 85% everywhere. Less linearity seems to enhance the pull to the left. Wheel lock: Use as much as you can but still be able to turn the car. Too little wheel lock (smaller number) will cause the car to be twitchy. Typically, the wheel lock that is used on the 'fast' setups is about right. Now you're ready to take the car out for a few laps and will probably think that the car is a bit loose because you're using far less roll couple than what we've used in the past. But drive it anyway even if you have to drive it really easy for about 20 laps. Pay attention to these things: what do your tire temps look like, what is the middle temp in relation to the edges, are the edges more than 10 degrees apart and how do the 4 tires temps compare to each other. See the tire section for help. Don't worry too much about the handling at this point unless miraculously, your tire temps are already right. Nah, that never happens the first time we 'rough' a setup in J. Your tire temps do more to tell you how the car is handling than your empirical senses do. As far as tire temps go, my individual testing during beta testing suggested that the best compromise between wear and rolling drag was a tire that had a middle temp about the same as the inner edge with the split between the edges no more than 10 degrees. In other words, your tire temps should look something like this; LF RF 195/195/187 220/220/210 LR RR 198/198/192 221/221/215 These temps show a very well balanced chassis although a little bit loose. But remember loose is fast and better for RF tire wear. But as always, there is a compromise and we must be able to drive the setup. Especially in traffic. For qualifying and sprint setups, you'll want to crown the middle temps slightly. Go back to the garage and adjust camber and tire pressures to get the temps right. Don't adjust anything else yet. We're not real concerned yet with the tires temps in relationship to each other yet. Go back out on the track and run 20 more laps. Repeat the above step if the tire temps still aren't right. Once the temps are correct, you have the middle temps running about the same as the inner edge and there's no more than a 10 degree split between the edges, we can start looking at forward bias. On bigger tracks if you really feel like you can't drive the car in hard enough, move weight forward. We're still in the roughing in section so we're still not worrying about what the individual tire temps are in relationship to each other. Even though moving weight forward is going to put more static load on the front we can adjust for that elsewhere later on. Keep moving weight back and forth until the car feels at least relatively close to being right for entering, holding the middle and exiting. It wont be exactly right but we have to get the weight close before we can move on. Once the car feels close we start looking at the tire temps again and how they compare to each other. For example, if the RF is running 20 degrees hotter than the RR and the LF is running 40 degrees cooler than the LR, the car is too loose and we don't have enough load on the LF. We need to move weight forward and maybe take out some wedge or stiffen the rear springs or increase the track bar. Or a combination of all the above. At this point, I don't believe there is systematically correct method for tweaking the setup. I do believe that we're looking for tire temps that are close to the example shown above because they show that each tire is handling it's fair share of the load. There are many ways to get to there from here. To keep myself sane I use the following guidelines but in no way profess that these are the right guidelines; Get the roll couple in the right range. Make sure camber is correct. (Adjust LS camber so that the car turns in well but may have to compromise with using less incase we hit the apron) Make sure tire temps are correct. Make sure each tire is handling its fair share of the load. Use enough spoiler to insure the car does not get loose in traffic. Use the softest springs possible but not so soft the car bottoms out. Never use more than a 50lb split on the rear springs except for qualifying. Use wedge to fine tune a loose or tight condition. After everything else seems to be right, play with caster, you can find big gains here. Use the rest of this guide to reach the above objectives. Again, I don't believe there is only one correct methodology as far as what order or how much you adjust an individual setting. The tire temps tell all in regards to how the car is handling and until you get them right, you shouldn't do much to the car in regards to your personal feel. Once you do have the tire temps right, play with caster to dial in feel. You can further tweak shocks (very fine tuning adjustment) and you can mess with the asymmetric's, spring split 's tire pressures, track bars, etc. While the there is definitely a science to measuring tire temps, there isn't an exact measurement, use the pressures to fine tune handling characteristics. If you must have some order for adjusting things, you might consider using the order we used to rough in the setup for the same fine tuning but with more emphasis on caster. Personally, I believe the order for adjusting things changes for every track and boils down to how much you really know about what does what and what affects what. There is a ton of info in this guide to try and help you do that but at best we can only hope this will speed up the process of learning things on your own. Another question: Now if a setup is made for a certain temperature,what are the consequences when the temp rises or drops?Does the handling of the car changes much with temp changes?

Eddy, Most of the folks on this newsgroup enjoy just being jerks and providing either no help or misguided help. Both frustrating. The guide or setup theories from N2002 to N2003 are different. Let me recommend this for a good starting spot. Go to the project wildfire website and download the expert setups. These setups are for me loose and that is good because all I have to do is fine tune and tighten up a little. Factors to consider are; how long do you set your races, what kind of driving wheel and pedals, and simulation temperature settings and last but not least, opponent strenght. The guide is good for chassis setup in theory with some practical application for N2003 but Papy changed the physics and I don't know what exactly is affected in the guide. The guide wanted you to get very low roll percentges ( in the 79-80) but N2003 will not (for me) get in those ranges and have a car that handles. I am sure someone is going to cream me good for just responding to your post. Better get my helmet on. http://www.onlineracin.com/pwf/ Good luck, Rush "Eddy Ruts" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Lvghb.68152$[email hidden]...

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> This is a guide that I found on the net about building a race setup from > scratch for N2002. > Is this ok for N2003v1.2?? > I think that the physics between the N2002s and N2003v1.2 are different.If > so what should be different in that guide? > Now if a setup is made for a certain temperature,what are the consequences > when the temp rises or drops?Does the handling of the car changes much

with > temp changes? > Building a Race Setup From Scratch > > OK, we've read through the whole guide and we understand what everythingis, > how it works, and we can drive consistent laps with the fast setup butwhere > the heck do we start if we want to build our own setups? First, I have to > reiterate the driving part, please do not waist your own time in thegarage > if you cannot drive consistent laps yet. Consistent means you're hittinglap > after lap within a tenth of a second of each other. Next, let's define our > goals; we want the car to be fast, we want the car to be good on (RF) tire > wear, we want the other 3 corners of the car to share as much of the loadas > possible, we want the car to be drivable in traffic, and we want the carto > be forgiving enough to get out of bad situations should we mess up alittle > like by hitting the apron or having to check up really hard. We've gotgood > goals; it's now time to start turning some wrenches. > > From a clean sheet start here and do the following before you take your > first test spin: > > Springs: Start every track with a 700lb LF spring and a 900lb RF spring.At > the back use 350 on the LR and 400 on the RR. > > Sway bars: Start with 1 inch sway bars front and rear. This is a little > unrealistic but NR2002S does not take into account roll stiffness fromtire > pressures so we have to get a little crazy making up for that by using an > extremely stiff rear sway bar. > > Roll couple: If you're building a speedway setup, you're going to wantyour > roll couple to be in the low 70-percentile range. If you're building ashort > track or road course setup the roll couple will be closer to 80%. This may > necessitate slightly different springs ratings and swaybar dimensions from > above. But try to stick with a 200lb split at the front and a 50lb splitat > the rear. > > Front Bias: For speedways, start at 50.5% for shorter tracks, start at50%.

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> The only time you may want to go less than 50% is at Martinsville and New > Hampshire where you may use as little as 47 or 48%. > > Left Bias: Always max left weight except for road courses. > > Camber: Start with +5.0 on the LF and -2.0 on the RF everywhere. > > Trackbars: Start with a 9-11 split everywhere. > > Wedge: Start with 0. > > Tire pressures: Start with the tire pressures used on the fast setup. > > Shocks: Start with the same settings as used on the fast setup. > > Spoiler: Start with 65 at Atlanta, Michigan, and Texas, Use 70 everywhere > else. > > Ride Height: Start with 4.5 on the left side and 6.0 on the RR. Except for > the roadies where you'll need to start with at least 5.0 on the LF and

6.25

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> at the back on both sides. > > Gear ratios and final drive: start with the same settings used on the fast > setup. > > Caster: At the big tracks, start with 0 on the LF and +2.0 on the RF. > Gradually increase that using the same 2 inch split as the tracks get > smaller. Out of all the setup options, this is the loosest 'rule'. Caster

is

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> extremely driver dependent and will vary wildly between different drivers > depending on controllers and your own personal preferences for feel. > > Brake Bias: Use as little front bias as possible but enough so I can brake > confidently in any situation. I use 72% as a baseline and try to get it to > 67% > > Linearity: I personally like to use 85% everywhere. Less linearity seems

to > enhance the pull to the left. > > Wheel lock: Use as much as you can but still be able to turn the car. Too > little wheel lock (smaller number) will cause the car to be twitchy. > Typically, the wheel lock that is used on the 'fast' setups is aboutright. > > Now you're ready to take the car out for a few laps and will probablythink > that the car is a bit loose because you're using far less roll couple than > what we've used in the past. But drive it anyway even if you have to drive > it really easy for about 20 laps. Pay attention to these things: what do > your tire temps look like, what is the middle temp in relation to theedges, > are the edges more than 10 degrees apart and how do the 4 tires temps > compare to each other. See the tire section for help. Don't worry too much > about the handling at this point unless miraculously, your tire temps are > already right. Nah, that never happens the first time we 'rough' a setupin > J. Your tire temps do more to tell you how the car is handling than your > empirical senses do. > > As far as tire temps go, my individual testing during beta testingsuggested > that the best compromise between wear and rolling drag was a tire that hada

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> middle temp about the same as the inner edge with the split between the > edges no more than 10 degrees. In other words, your tire temps should look > something like this; > > LF RF > > 195/195/187 220/220/210 > > LR RR > > 198/198/192 221/221/215 > > These temps show a very well balanced chassis although a little bit loose. > But remember loose is fast and better for RF tire wear. But as always,

there > is a compromise and we must be able to drive the setup. Especially in > traffic. For qualifying and sprint setups, you'll want to crown the middle > temps slightly. > > Go back to the garage and adjust camber and tire pressures to get thetemps > right. Don't adjust anything else yet. We're not real concerned yet withthe > tires temps in relationship to each other yet. > > Go back out on the track and run 20 more laps. Repeat the above step ifthe > tire temps still aren't right. > > Once the temps are correct, you have the middle temps running about thesame > as the inner edge and there's no more than a 10 degree split between the > edges, we can start looking at forward bias. > > On bigger tracks if you really feel like you can't drive the car in hard > enough, move weight forward. We're still in the roughing in section sowe're > still not worrying about what the individual tire temps are inrelationship > to each other. Even though moving weight forward is going to put morestatic > load on the front we can adjust for that elsewhere later on. Keep moving > weight back and forth until the car feels at least relatively close tobeing > right for entering, holding the middle and exiting. It wont be exactlyright > but we have to get the weight close before we can move on. > > Once the car feels close we start looking at the tire temps again and how > they compare to each other. For example, if the RF is running 20 degrees > hotter than the RR and the LF is running 40 degrees cooler than the LR,the > car is too loose and we don't have enough load on the LF. We need to move > weight forward and maybe take out some wedge or stiffen the rear springsor > increase the track bar. Or a combination of all the above. At this point,I > don't believe there is systematically correct method for tweaking thesetup. > I do believe that we're looking for tire temps that are close to theexample > shown above because they show that each tire is handling it's fair shareof > the load. There are many ways to get to there from here. To keep myselfsane > I use the following guidelines but in no way profess that these are the > right guidelines; > > Get the roll couple in the right range. > > Make sure camber is correct. (Adjust LS camber so that the car turns inwell

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> but may have to compromise with using less incase we hit the apron) > > Make sure tire temps are correct. > > Make sure each tire is handling its fair share of the load. > > Use enough spoiler to insure the car does not get loose in traffic. > > Use the softest springs possible but not so soft the car bottoms out. > > Never use more than a 50lb split on the rear springs except for

qualifying. > > Use wedge to fine tune a loose or tight condition. > > After everything else seems to be right, play with caster, you can findbig > gains here. > > Use the rest of this guide to reach the above objectives. Again, I don't > believe there is only one correct methodology as far as what order or how > much you adjust an individual setting. The tire temps tell all in regardsto > how the car is handling and until you get them right, you shouldn't domuch > to the car in regards to your personal feel. Once you do have the tiretemps > right, play with caster to dial in feel. You can further tweak shocks(very > fine tuning adjustment) and you can mess with the asymmetric's, springsplit > 's tire pressures, track bars, etc. While the there is definitely ascience > to measuring tire temps, there isn't an exact measurement, use thepressures > to fine tune handling characteristics. If you must have some order for > adjusting things, you might consider using the order we used to rough inthe > setup for the same fine tuning but with more emphasis on caster.Personally, > I believe the order for adjusting things changes for every track and boils > down to how much you really know about what does what and what affectswhat. > There is a ton of info in this guide to try and help you do that but atbest

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> we can only hope this will speed up the process of learning things on your > own. > > Another question: > > Now if a setup is made for a certain temperature,what are the consequences > when the temp rises or drops?Does the handling of the car changes much

with > temp changes? > >

"Rush" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:l7phb.8488$[email hidden]... > Eddy, > Most of the folks on this newsgroup enjoy just being jerks and providing > either no help or misguided help. Both frustrating. The guide or setup > theories from N2002 to N2003 are different. Let me recommend this for a > good starting spot. Go to the project wildfire website and download the > expert setups. These setups are for me loose and that is good because allI > have to do is fine tune and tighten up a little. Factors to consider are; > how long do you set your races, what kind of driving wheel and pedals, and > simulation temperature settings and last but not least, opponent strenght. > The guide is good for chassis setup in theory with some practical > application for N2003 but Papy changed the physics and I don't know what > exactly is affected in the guide. The guide wanted you to get very lowroll

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> percentges ( in the 79-80) but N2003 will not (for me) get in those ranges > and have a car that handles. I am sure someone is going to cream me good > for just responding to your post. Better get my helmet on. > > http://www.onlineracin.com/pwf/ > > Good luck, > Rush >

Decent advice Rush, but I will add that tightening up the expert setups should only be done if you are running among a group or league that run shorter races. While they are touch and go early in a run (especially at 100% wheel linearity which is how I run and how Bob Stanley has them setup) they are great late into a run. When everyone else is pushing and slowing, Bob's setups still have a little 'goody' left in them since they start out a tad loose. If one were to tighten up the basic setup, it would get a lot tighter as a run goes, especially in a longish race and especially at 2x pit freq. Just my 2 cents, YMMV. The only 'public domain' tuner I have ever trusted with long run setups as much or more than Bob Stanley (author of the <expert> setups) is/was Doug Arnao. And the best setup guide I have ever seen (for NR4 and NR2002 anyway) was Rodney Arndt over at SASCAR. Do some searches on those names and see if these guys are still in business, it won't be a waste of your time if you find them and they're still active in NR2003.

"SimRacer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:OjBhb.44225$[email hidden]... > And the best setup guide I have ever > seen (for NR4 and NR2002 anyway) was Rodney Arndt over at SASCAR. Do some > searches on those names and see if these guys are still in business, it > won't be a waste of your time if you find them and they're still active in > NR2003. http://www.sascar.com/guide/2003guide.html -jde

I'm still active :) In fact so much so that all my spare time is being used to test new drivers for our new GNS & Truck series. Unfortunately that means the guide has taken a back seat to everything else. One of these days I'll get this completed as well as some track guides that I've wanted to do for so long now. "J.D. Ellis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3f879f80$0$12623$[email hidden]... > > "SimRacer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:OjBhb.44225$[email hidden]... > > And the best setup guide I have ever > > seen (for NR4 and NR2002 anyway) was Rodney Arndt over at SASCAR. Dosome > > searches on those names and see if these guys are still in business, it > > won't be a waste of your time if you find them and they're still activein

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> > NR2003. > > > http://www.sascar.com/guide/2003guide.html > > -jde > >

"Rodney Arndt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:dB%hb.107336$[email hidden]... > I'm still active :) In fact so much so that all my spare time is beingused > to test new drivers for our new GNS & Truck series. Unfortunately thatmeans > the guide has taken a back seat to everything else. One of these days I'll > get this completed as well as some track guides that I've wanted to do for > so long now. > Yes, RacinRod, I refound the SASCAR site after I posted that and saw that you and Bob have collaborated on the 2003 setup guide. Looks as keen as ever, even if I am too simple minded to follow every little thing. I anxiously await the day I can download the 2003 guide (since all I saw was the online version). Take your time, 2003 will be the last from Papy as we all know, so you won't have to worry about beating a 2004 release date for a new sim...LOL!