HW Question: CPU vs. Graphic Accelerator

I want to build a new silent PC and would like to know which component affects the performance of sim racing games more: the CPU or the graphic accelerator? I think the max speed for the CPU will top out at around 1GHz (with heatsink only, but no fan) and typical on-board graphic accelerator are a few generation from the state-of-the-art, if these are good enough then I can do without a graphics card... So if you had to sacrifice performance on one, which one would it be? I play GPL, F1-2002, F1C and NR2003 regularly, so the new PC should work well on all the games, at least that is my goal... Your comments are welcomed.

[email hidden] (Jerry) wrote in news:[email hidden]:

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> I want to build a new silent PC and would like to know which component > affects the performance of sim racing games more: the CPU or the > graphic accelerator? I think the max speed for the CPU will top out at > around 1GHz (with heatsink only, but no fan) and typical on-board > graphic accelerator are a few generation from the state-of-the-art, if > these are good enough then I can do without a graphics card... So if > you had to sacrifice performance on one, which one would it be? I play > GPL, F1-2002, F1C and NR2003 regularly, so the new PC should work well > on all the games, at least that is my goal... Your comments are > welcomed. >

While it will run them, 1 ghz will not cut it with F1c or Nr2003. If you want a silent racing, then consider a water system to cool your cpu, mb chipset and video card chips.

I ran NR2003 on my 1000 mhz, it was very motivating to get upgraded (went up to 2.4 myself). you will NOT get a 1000 chip to survive without a fan! I guarantee you that everything gets hot when your racing, as compared to stilling around in winders... To me, your plan is as rediculous as building a 5-hp gocart to drive 30 miles to work each day. But to put my 2cents, the vid cards in a lot of "typical" systems are the Piece Of Sh*t Intel 3d chip, wont do NR2003 for crap... Best choice would be one that at least had built in nvidia (Geforce MX) or ATI video chipset. I seem to tell this story a lot, so It should be a .sig file for me by now, but my 1000 mhz machine with my Hercules Prophet (Geforce2 MX 32 meg card) saw little improvement when I swapped out that card for the geforce4 ti4600 128 meg card. but I did see some more details in NR2003. 2nd, my buddy just bought him a 1.6 equivalent AMD machine, by HP. until he put in a new fx5200? series card, he couldnt load tona or dega, and his FPS were sub 20. What you need to do is just find those fans that are low noise, they usually cost more. I have 3 low speed high cfm vent fans, and like you I wish the vid card could be made to run quieter, because it is the only sound I hear most of the time. "Jerry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> I want to build a new silent PC and would like to know which component > affects the performance of sim racing games more: the CPU or the > graphic accelerator? I think the max speed for the CPU will top out at > around 1GHz (with heatsink only, but no fan) and typical on-board > graphic accelerator are a few generation from the state-of-the-art, if > these are good enough then I can do without a graphics card... So if > you had to sacrifice performance on one, which one would it be? I play > GPL, F1-2002, F1C and NR2003 regularly, so the new PC should work well > on all the games, at least that is my goal... Your comments are > welcomed.

> I wish the vid card could be made to run quieter, because it is the only > sound I hear most of the time. Its easy. Just wire a resistor in series with the fan. That'll reduce the speed of the fan (less noise but less airflow). If you want the fancy shancy rig, wire a potentionmeter instead of a resistor and you now have a variable speed fan.

On 13 Oct 2003 05:52:31 -0700, Jerry wrote:

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> I want to build a new silent PC and would like to know which component > affects the performance of sim racing games more: the CPU or the > graphic accelerator? I think the max speed for the CPU will top out at > around 1GHz (with heatsink only, but no fan) and typical on-board > graphic accelerator are a few generation from the state-of-the-art, if > these are good enough then I can do without a graphics card... So if > you had to sacrifice performance on one, which one would it be? I play > GPL, F1-2002, F1C and NR2003 regularly, so the new PC should work well > on all the games, at least that is my goal... Your comments are > welcomed.

dont skimp on any, go here,,, http://www.zalman.co.kr/english/product/cnps6500b-cu.htm for power supply go here,,,, http://www.enermax.com.tw/product-01.htm

Jerry wrote:

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> > I want to build a new silent PC and would like to know which component > affects the performance of sim racing games more: the CPU or the > graphic accelerator? I think the max speed for the CPU will top out at > around 1GHz (with heatsink only, but no fan) and typical on-board > graphic accelerator are a few generation from the state-of-the-art, if > these are good enough then I can do without a graphics card... So if > you had to sacrifice performance on one, which one would it be? I play > GPL, F1-2002, F1C and NR2003 regularly, so the new PC should work well > on all the games, at least that is my goal... Your comments are > welcomed.

There's no need for a noisy PC unless you're into heavy overclocking, and even then you can make a decently quiet system An Intel system is easier to get really quiet than an AMD system, the new P4's with 800 FSB in particular runs very cool and there are plenty of aftermarket fans/hs that runs very quiet, the more high end Coolermaster and GlacialTech springs to mind, other brands have similar products I'm sure GlacialTech Igloo4310 for up to 3,0GHz CPU's for instance, rated at 25dB(A) at 2800 RPM, not completely noiseless, but fairly quiet, slap this on a 2.4C and activate the fan control on the MoBo and you probably won't be able to hear it most of the time, it will probably spin up a bit while you're playing games, but that will drown in the noise from your speakers anyways Add a couple of really low speed 80 mm fans to your case to make sure it's properly ventilated, Enermax has a series of really nice adjustable fans Make sure you get a case with a decent PSU, cheap cases come with cheap PSU's, cheap PSU's often have noisy fans, some even come without fan control, if possible, get a PSU with dual fans and fan control Vid card.....ATI's cards tend to run cooler than nVidia's cards, at least the high end ones, and thus the fans usually runs slower, Sapphire even does their "ultimate edition" cards without any fans at all So, basically there's no need to sacrifice performance in the quest for low noise, just chose your bits and pieces carefully and be prepared to spend a little bit extra on your parts as that's one place where the El-Cheapo bits tend to skimp Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "goyl at nettx dot no" http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

In article <[email hidden]>, Jerry <[email hidden]> writes

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>I want to build a new silent PC and would like to know which component >affects the performance of sim racing games more: the CPU or the >graphic accelerator? I think the max speed for the CPU will top out at >around 1GHz (with heatsink only, but no fan) and typical on-board >graphic accelerator are a few generation from the state-of-the-art, if >these are good enough then I can do without a graphics card... So if >you had to sacrifice performance on one, which one would it be? I play >GPL, F1-2002, F1C and NR2003 regularly, so the new PC should work well >on all the games, at least that is my goal... Your comments are >welcomed.

You can't do without a proper AGP graphics card, period. I've seen enough of those motherboards with onboard graphics and they run like sh*t. Perhaps the nforce type ones may improve things, but you have to pay extra for those and you could probably spend the money you would save on a GF2 anyway, which would probably outperform an nforce board graphically. If you're trying to avoid noise though, most g/fx cards have a fan on them, I'm afraid. -- Peter Ives (AKA Pete Ivington) Remove ALL_STRESS before replying via email If you know what's good for you, don't listen to me :) GPLRank Joystick -50.63 Wheel -21.77

I think VIA has some fanless CPU's- C3, and their Eden platform. I built a small multimedia PC box, and it can run some games with a USB steering wheel or gamepad. I've actually managed to play Rally Masters with a 700 Mhz (it has a small fan), too, and it actually doesn't run so bad, it's more limited by the PCI GeForce 4 MX I put with it (it has built in video, but no TV-out, so I bought an add-in card). I'd imagine you could probably race GPL or NFS: Porsche Unleashed with this setup, but any of the newer games will be taxed too much due to the combination of increased physics and graphics. If you used a large, copper heatsink, with a good case fan, you might be able to make one fanless at 1 GHz. On a small PC, you should really watch out for the hard drive, it can be incredibly noisy for some reason. Smaller cases don't automaticly make for quieter machines, either.

Thanks for all your feedback and dis-couragement ;-) The reason I want to have a silent and compact (forgot to mention that) PC is that it will be in the bedroom, and will also serve as a DVD player, MP3 stereo system then there is also the WAF (wife acceptance factor). This all got started when I saw the Hush ATX PC (http://www.hushtechnologies.com/default.asp?PageID=11), what a beauty! I thought I could do a DIY version using an old audio amplifier chassis, but with the ATX form factor and space constrain, I thought I had to make some sacrifices among the components. Currently I have the Shuttle xPC with AMD1600+ and nVidia 4600 and the games run wonderfully, but it is still too noisy even with its heat-pipe cooling system. With your suggestions, I may go for a slightly larger chassis and use low noise fans, and may be put the whole darn thing inside the closet if the wife will let me...

> This all got started when I saw the Hush ATX PC > (http://www.hushtechnologies.com/default.asp?PageID=11), what a > beauty! I thought I could do a DIY version using an old audio > amplifier chassis, but with the ATX form factor and space constrain, I I highly suggest an Antec Sonata case. The HDs are mounted on rubber grommets, the rear fan is 120mm, and the included 380W p/s only has one fan. And yes, the 380W p/s should be fine. I run dual 2400+'es with two "pro audio" PCI cards for recording, a Radeon 9700 Pro, 2-3 HDs, a burner, and a couple other PCI cards. I've yet to experience problems. IOW, the heat and power issues aren't issues at all. Regarding the HSF, the Zalman flower cooler works well as does the Thermaltake Silent Boost. Both are very quiet with the fan speed down in the basement, and cooling remains adequate for a system at stock speeds. If you don't obsess over getting your system in the super low temp range, you'll be fine. If you want to go a step further, you can install the Zalman heatpipe HS for your video card to eliminate that fan. I also suggest using something like the Vantec fan controller. It provides front mounted pots for controlling the speed of four fans. I've found it mostly set and forget, but easy access is still a nice luxury. I have to run my CPU fans a little below half power due to the number of devices producing a lot of heat. Still, it's very quiet, and with all fans at or just above minimum, it's as close to silent as it gets. Building a very, very quiet PC isn't terribly difficult, it just takes a little cash to get there. An environment that isn't sweltering to begin with doesn't hurt either. Alan

On 13 Oct 2003 05:52:31 -0700, [email hidden] (Jerry) wrote:

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>I want to build a new silent PC and would like to know which component >affects the performance of sim racing games more: the CPU or the >graphic accelerator? I think the max speed for the CPU will top out at >around 1GHz (with heatsink only, but no fan) and typical on-board >graphic accelerator are a few generation from the state-of-the-art, if >these are good enough then I can do without a graphics card... So if >you had to sacrifice performance on one, which one would it be? I play >GPL, F1-2002, F1C and NR2003 regularly, so the new PC should work well >on all the games, at least that is my goal... Your comments are >welcomed.

An interesting topic... I've been thinking about a new PC and looking into "silent PCs", and so on. (Of course, I may already have a silent PC, since I don't have a 3gig CPU with a 7200rpm HD and jet-turbine-cooled NVIDIA 5900. -- just a lowly Celeron 300A @ 450, 5400rpm drives, and a Voodoo5. :) I'm not really in touch with the new hardware, but here's some stuff I've read... On CPU vs. GPU for sims, the answer is "yes". Both are important. Shortcut either and you may fall short of expectations. I think the 1GHz level would be too slow (particularly if you are thinking of a VIA CPU [since you mention 1GHz and fanless], since I hear they have poor FPU performance, so they would be even slower for sims than a comparably-clocked AMD or Intel CPU). One other thing to think about is I understand that most CPUs nowadays have the multiplier locked, so you would have to alter bus speed and I'm not sure if motherboards have the range to underclock that far if you are talking about a moderately fast CPU (2+GHz) (or I could be totally wrong. :) On integrated graphics, Tom's Hardware had a good report: http://www6.tomshardware.com/graphic/20030903/index.html which concluded that the best integrated graphics was the NVIDIA GeForce 4MX included with the AMD nForce2 boards. Even so, performance was notably below a modern low- to mid-range stand-alone card (ATI 9200). BTW, I've also heard that the nForce2 video is greatly benefitted by using dual-channel memory on the Ultra motherboards (which is how it was tested in that report). Looking into a fanless or low-fan-noise graphics card is a better bet. Depending on how you feel about such things, perhaps an pre-built system from someone like Dell (which has a good reputation for quiet systems) might be better than a home-built or local-store-built system (which, unless you are willing to spend time and/or money and fuss over it, will probably be built from a much smaller base of experience in this [silent PC] area). Aside from Tom's Hardware, check www.anandtech.com Notably for simmers, their most recent video card tests use F1Challenge in their benchmarking suite. Good luck. One of the problems with the silent PC concept is that so much information is subjective or anecdotal, and the small amount of quantitative data is hard to compare. :| -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

After reading some silencing techniques on www.silentpcreview.com, I think I will carry out some of the mods suggested there, such as cutting off the fan grills, and replacing the system and PSU fans with less noisy ones. Since the Zelman VGA cooler can't fit inside the xPC, I may have to live with the tiny fan on the VGA card or just go with the on-board nVidia GPU, which I have used before getting the 4600, as I recall the performance wasn't all that bad, anyway compromises have to be made if I want a small and silent PC. Thanks for all your suggestions! Jerry

Antec cases are relatively quiet just because the grills are fairly big, and the bigger the case the easier they are to keep cool. OTOH, I had a mini-mid tower case with only one rear exhaust fan and a power supply fan, and it had very small holes on the back, and it sounded like a jet engine (it made a "whoosh" sound)- and it was always hot running.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Jerry) writes: >After reading some silencing techniques on www.silentpcreview.com, I >think I will carry out some of the mods suggested there, such as >cutting off the fan grills, and replacing the system and PSU fans with >less noisy ones. Cutting off the fan grills?!? Geez, that's a bit MUCH, innit? Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Member Screamers Racing League IICC League GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38 ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77 Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress N2k3 rank:in progress Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

May be that isn't a good description, but basically the idea is to provide more air-flow by doing away with all those holes (grill, slots what nots) and making two larger openings. Since the system fan and the PSU fan are blowing outwards, they create quite a racket... Without the mod, the xPC puts out 35-40db, you can definitely hear it when watching a movie or listening to music, but not when you are driving a sim... you are too busy listening to the engine whine and tire squeaks! Cheers, Jerry

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> Cutting off the fan grills?!? Geez, that's a bit MUCH, innit? > > Eldred > -- > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > Member > Screamers Racing League > IICC League > GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38 > ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77 > Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress > N2k3 rank:in progress > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Jerry) writes:

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>May be that isn't a good description, but basically the idea is to >provide more air-flow by doing away with all those holes (grill, slots >what nots) and making two larger openings. Since the system fan and >the PSU fan are blowing outwards, they create quite a racket... >Without the mod, the xPC puts out 35-40db, you can definitely hear it >when watching a movie or listening to music, but not when you are >driving a sim... you are too busy listening to the engine whine and >tire squeaks!

Interesting...I may look into that. Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett Member Screamers Racing League IICC League GPLRank -2.4 MoGPL rank +302.38 ChallengeRank +54.48 MoC +743.77 Hist. +82.82 MoH in progress N2k3 rank:in progress Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.