GPL vs Real Driving

A while back there was some sort of discussion about wether racing GPL improved your road driving. I think it does, it certainly has taught me what a car will do at the limits of its adhesion. Though I can't really compare my Uno (though it is a darkish red and don't Fiat own part of Ferrari?) to a '67 GP car, I do think I have a better understanding of the forces at play and who knows maybe one day it may be of an advantage. Chris

Just remember you cannot do shift-R in real life :-) -Jan Otto

I agree. Be it right or wrong, I feel as if I would have better on-the- edge control skills with my car on the road, if it ever got to that, because of GPL. Unfortunately, I use left-foot-braking in GPL and that is impossible for me in my real car. I can't approach duplicating my GPL throttle and brake control if I only use my right foot for both brake and throttle. I use both at once in GPL to control my mid-corner car attitude. Also, my car is front wheel drive and the limit charactaristics are substantially different than a rear wheel drive car. -Chris- Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

I've had some experience driving real Formula Fords. GPL does an excellent job of mimicing the physics involved. The reaction to driver input is very realistic. Actually, I find a real race car easier to drive because of the feedback (not just through the wheel)and better visual perspective. Of course, as Jan pointed out, there is no shift-R in the real car, so it's important not to exceed the limits if you want to continue to play. Ed

I would have to say that yes it does make a difference. I don't drive a sports car by any stretch of the imagination, but once in awhile I give the little thing a bit of 'goose' on the way home from work (40 minutes through the desert). I have found that knowing what the car is doing when the 'normal' (putt-putt) weight transition is replaced by say.. having the rear end begin to lose traction allowed me to make a few tiny little adjustments with the throttle and steering to smoothly finish a corner. Or two. It also became obvious that front-engine cars handle very differently than the sim-rear-engine models do. =) A safety caveat: I had plenty of runoff area. Traffic was very light (Anyone in Arizona can attest to empty highways and roads) and I was only approaching the adhesion limits of the car. I was not on the edge. The added control I'd learned from the game (where I did have [shift-R]) kept it that way. Happy motoring! Mikey

At first I didn't think it would help. But now my mind is changing. A few days ago I had a big spin in my Trooper up in the mountains. I was going round and that was that. My feet and arms reacted without instruction and I actually balanced the weight of the car with braking and throttle. I stopped the spin at about 80 degrees and actually got the car back into the driving lane fairly quickly. I was surprised at my success. What I think happened was that GPL has reinforced some of the fundamental techniques necessary to balance. How often do you spin on the public roadway, or even the racetrack for that matter? GPL gives good, inexpensive spin practice. But more over I think it's just conditioning. The first thing I learned about going quickly (and surviving it) was to remain calm. A driver who panics is a driver headed for a tree. GPL has given me more seat time. That leads to comfort and confidence. -- Mark Jeangerard www.soundchaserweb.com New Mexico USA

People also have not mentioned that GPL or other racing sims are normally the only place where somebody will be able to push a car to it's limit. In your normal life car driving, you do not hopefully push it to the limit. You can try once, but I doubt we aren't all driving our roads at 120+mph all the time ;) Which means that it gives us the experience of being at the edge. When such a situation happens in real-life, our experience will help us to do the correct reaction. -- -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... "People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Also, my car is front wheel drive and the limit charactaristics are substantially different than a rear wheel drive car.] You should try Toca2. They did a fabulous job modeling the physics of fwd cars. Rik Anthrax - - "trust the government?? what are you, some kind of moron?"

Nice to meet another GPLer who drives an uno... All ive got to do now is find a FEMALE uno driving GPL *** and I will be in heaven..

Rik, you have to be kidding me... TOCA2 has horrible physics IMHO. There's no warning you're about to lose tire adhesion. You just suddenly go flying off into the wall. Dan Belcher Team Racing Unlimited http://simcrashes.cjb.net

Yeah maybe - I'll tell you what really teaches you about the limits of adhesion - going off a circuit ( Goodwood in my case ) backwards at 125 mph. That taught me a lot ! Drive carefully , Bog

I think I have a much better sense of weight transfer now. Especially now that my newer car is also more stiff (maxima se with suspension tweaks). And fear of braking ;-)

With a FF wheel you can feel the front wheel loosing grip before you spinn off in TOCA2. Also, in real life, these cars are constructed in a manner so when they slip, they *really* slip. I've been watching som BTCC races on TV, and the cars just jump off the track when loosing grip, almost as in F1. Jon

I've noticed this too, but it has been helped with the use of a force feedback controller, because you can 'feel' the car sliding before you see it. I stand by my opinion that the physics of TOCA 1 and 2 really don't live up to much. I'm interested in seeing what differences they've made with the engine in TOCA 3. Neo

With a FF wheel you can feel the front wheel loosing grip before you spinn off in TOCA2. Also, in real life, these cars are constructed in a manner so when they slip, they *really* slip. I've been watching som BTCC races on TV, and the cars just jump off the track when loosing grip, almost as in F1. >>>>>I agree. The FF is pretty good. like I said, they did a fabulous job modeling the physics of fwd touring cars. Rik Anthrax - - "trust the government?? what are you, some kind of moron?"

Couldn't agree more, otherwise it's a great game. Dan Belcher <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > >You should try Toca2. > >They did a fabulous job modeling the physics of fwd cars. > >Rik Anthrax > > > Rik, you have to be kidding me... TOCA2 has horrible physics IMHO.There's no > warning you're about to lose tire adhesion. You just suddenly go flyingoff > into the wall. > > > Dan Belcher > Team Racing Unlimited > http://simcrashes.cjb.net

Couldn't agree more, otherwise it's a great game.

> >People also have not mentioned that GPL or other racing simsare normally >the only place where somebody will be able to push a car toit's limit. In >your normal life car driving, you do not hopefully push it tothe limit. >You can try once, but I doubt we aren't all driving our roadsat 120+mph all >the time ;) > >Which means that it gives us the experience of being at theedge. When such >a situation happens in real-life, our experience will help usto do the >correct reaction. > I also think that GPL also can make you a more careful driver as the crashes are almost frightening in their realism and it is a kind of warning to what shunting a motor car at high speed is like. Just an afterthought. Chris

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> > > >-- >-- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> >-- May the Downforce be with you... > >"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they

don't realise >how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world." > > > > > * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!

I am going to have to say I agree totally with you. The cars in TOCA2 seem to instantly spin out for no apparent reason. At the bottom of the dip at Brands Hatch, if you try to steer slighty as you go through, you get thrown off into the wall. Also the first right hander at Silverstone, and sometimes the first right at Thruxton. I get really annoyed by this, as most of the time the physics seem quite good, and it is otherwise a very playable game. But then, it's only for when GPL has got a bit boring and I need something different for a few minutes 8-)

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> Couldn't agree more, otherwise it's a great game. > > >You should try Toca2. > > >They did a fabulous job modeling the physics of fwd

cars. > > >Rik Anthrax > > Rik, you have to be kidding me... TOCA2 has horrible physics IMHO. > There's no > > warning you're about to lose tire adhesion. You just suddenly go flying > off > > into the wall. > > Dan Belcher > > Team Racing Unlimited > > http://simcrashes.cjb.net

But then, it's only for when GPL has got a bit boring and I need something different for a few minutes 8-) I agree with THAT too!! back to Monaco!! Rik Anthrax - - "trust the government?? what are you, some kind of moron?"

Too bad GPL isn't available in the local stores. I just got the ACT LABS FF wheel and it came with Need For Speed: Hot Pursuit. And since it has a Fairway Green '98 Corvette (I own one) that's what I drove. Or tried to. NFS doesn't cut it: I can't tell when tires start to slip until I'm already sliding off the road, the gas pedal is either on or off - no holding a steady speed (instead of constantly running off the road at high speeds I tried a new track at normal driving speed to get a feel for the track), the graphics were a lot poorer than I thought they would be, and NFS's Corvette doesn't handle like the real one. I did try a Diablo but since I never drove one I can't compare (anyone have one for me try near Ft. Lauderdale, FL? I promise not to paint walls like I do in NFS). :) I surely hope that other racing sims are much much better. I can't speak for GPL, but after taking the Skip Barber Driving Performance Course and their Racing Course I have a lot more confidence in driving. I recommend their Performance Course for daily driving (although I think they could cut it down from 2 days to 1). Now if only the rest of the bozos on the road would get out of my way. :) Glen

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> A while back there was some sort of discussion about wether racing GPL > improved your road driving. I think it does, it certainly has taught me > what a car will do at the limits of its adhesion. Though I can't really > compare my Uno (though it is a darkish red and don't Fiat own part of > Ferrari?) to a '67 GP car, I do think I have a better understanding of the > forces at play and who knows maybe one day it may be of an advantage. > Chris

Glen, Try Software Ect. for GPL. There is nothing that comes closer to driving a real car. Chris > Too bad GPL isn't available in the local stores. I just got the ACT LABS > FF wheel and it came with Need For Speed: Hot Pursuit. And since it > has a Fairway Green '98 Corvette (I own one) that's what I drove. Or > tried to. NFS doesn't cut it: I can't tell when tires start to slip until I'm > already sliding off the road, the gas pedal is either on or off - no holding > a steady speed (instead of constantly running off the road at high speeds > I tried a new track at normal driving speed to get a feel for the track), the

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> graphics were a lot poorer than I thought they would be, and > NFS's Corvette doesn't handle like the real one. I did try a Diablo but > since I never drove one I can't compare (anyone have one for me try near > Ft. Lauderdale, FL? I promise not to paint walls like I do in NFS). :) > I surely hope that other racing sims are much much better. > I can't speak for GPL, but after taking the Skip Barber Driving > Performance Course and their Racing Course I have a lot more > confidence in driving. I recommend their Performance Course > for daily driving (although I think they could cut it down from > 2 days to 1). > Now if only the rest of the bozos on the road would get out of my way. :) > Glen > > A while back there was some sort of discussion about wether racing GPL > > improved your road driving. I think it does, it certainly has taught

me > > what a car will do at the limits of its adhesion. Though I can't really > > compare my Uno (though it is a darkish red and don't Fiat own part of > > Ferrari?) to a '67 GP car, I do think I have a better understanding of the > > forces at play and who knows maybe one day it may be of an advantage. > > Chris

NFS doesn't even try to be a realistic sim. It is meant to be a fun game that drives somewhat like a car, but again puts "fun" over realism. You'll find that generally racing games fall under two categories: Simulations and Arcade racers. Simulations try to get the car physics just right so you can drive the cars the pros do, and give you a challenge. Arcade games ignore the laws of physics to create an instantly accessible game that is fun and even playable with the keyboard or game pad. > Too bad GPL isn't available in the local stores. I just got the ACT LABS > FF wheel and it came with Need For Speed: Hot Pursuit. And since it > has a Fairway Green '98 Corvette (I own one) that's what I drove. Or > tried to. NFS doesn't cut it: I can't tell when tires start to slip until I'm > already sliding off the road, the gas pedal is either on or off - no holding > a steady speed (instead of constantly running off the road at high speeds > I tried a new track at normal driving speed to get a feel for the track), the

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> graphics were a lot poorer than I thought they would be, and > NFS's Corvette doesn't handle like the real one. I did try a Diablo but > since I never drove one I can't compare (anyone have one for me try near > Ft. Lauderdale, FL? I promise not to paint walls like I do in NFS). :) > I surely hope that other racing sims are much much better. > I can't speak for GPL, but after taking the Skip Barber Driving > Performance Course and their Racing Course I have a lot more > confidence in driving. I recommend their Performance Course > for daily driving (although I think they could cut it down from > 2 days to 1). > Now if only the rest of the bozos on the road would get out of my way. :) > Glen > > A while back there was some sort of discussion about wether racing GPL > > improved your road driving. I think it does, it certainly has taught

me > > what a car will do at the limits of its adhesion. Though I can't really > > compare my Uno (though it is a darkish red and don't Fiat own part of > > Ferrari?) to a '67 GP car, I do think I have a better understanding of the > > forces at play and who knows maybe one day it may be of an advantage. > > Chris